Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
Science, religion, and philosophy. Liberal theology in a liberative mode. Postulant for Holy Orders๏ธฑalum Princeton Seminary, Marquette U๏ธฑ#Episcopalian๏ธฑHe/him
2,575 followers 5,916 following 1,309 posts
view profile on Bluesky Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
Tolkien Society (@tolkiensociety.org) reposted
On 2 September 1973 J.R.R. #Tolkien died aged 81. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings is the best-selling book of the 20th Century, and is joined by seminal works The Hobbit and The Silmarillion. He may have died 52 years ago but his influence and legacy lives on in us all. Namรกriรซ. #BookSky
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social)
Beginning my field ed year at St. John in the Wilderness Episcopal Church. Grateful to grow in ministry and continue discerning the call to priesthood. #episcopalchurch #episcopalian #priesthood
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
๐ช
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
Bye
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
Ah, a fundamentalist. Thanks for stopping by but hard pass.
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
Relevance?
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
๐ฏ
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social)
Edgy atheist fundamentalists coming to comment "umm actually all religion is bad" every time I talk about Christian Nationalism ๐
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
Bingo
Matthew D. Taylor (@matthewdtaylor.bsky.social) reposted
This is the first piece I've written since the 2024 election. It is published in a UK outlet (@newhumanist.bsky.social) and tries to make sense of many Christians' messianic attachments to Trump. newhumanist.org.uk/articles/6380
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
This dude isn't a serious person.
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
You tried to say I was "spreading venom against Christians." I'm not. I'm a Christian. Utter nonsense about academia. Rather insulting to Christian academics, I might add. Also, it's the guns. It's the guns. And it's the guns.
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
Hey, Christian here! It's the guns.
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social)
"No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and guns." Matthew 6:24, adapted for the United States
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social)
Added to my reading list!
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social)
Let's go!!! ๐๐๐ #GetVaccinated #VaccinesSaveLives #VaccinesWork
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
YES
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social)
actionnetwork.org/letters/writ...
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
๐
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
No, not even close my friend. I'm beginning to think you're the fundamentalist type. Cheers.
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
I hear where you're coming from, but that's not quite true. Fundamentalist religion, yes. But certainly not religion in general.
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
Yep
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
Yep, that's what I was told growing up
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
Growing up, I was explicitly told that 'evolutionists' were under demonic/satanic influence. It's "them" vs us.
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
Yes exactly!
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
It's rooted in a broader rejection of scientific inquiry and institutional trust within conservative Christianity. That same posture fuels resistance to vaccines, climate science, and other public health measures. Itโs not just about origins; itโs about the erosion of truth.
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
People sometimes ask me, โWhatโs the harm? So some Chriatians believe the earth is 6,000 years old and humans lived alongside dinosaurs.โ The harm lies in the deeper framework: young earth creationism isnโt just a quirky, laughably unscientific belief.
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social)
The surge of anti-science and anti-intellectual rhetoric in the halls of power in the US, feverishly supported by white evangelicals, is a major reason I feel compelled to challenge the harmful ideology of young earth creationism.
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social)
Evangelical support for #Trump shattered something sacred for many of us raised to value moral integrity. @amyhawk.bsky.social's *The Judas Effect* names that betrayal with prophetic clarity, healing through truth-telling and calling us back to the Gospel. #AmyHawk #TheJudasEffect #Evangelicals
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social)
When things get really stressful, I find it helpful to dive back into my comfort games for a mental break. And nothing hits quite like Knights of the Old Republic. Peak Star Wars, peak nostalgia, peak everything. #StarWars #KnightsoftheOldRepublic #KOTOR
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social)
Art: "Christ Breaks the Rifle," Otto Pankok #ottopankok #christbreakstherifle #sacredart
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social)
God *damn* the guns.
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
Nice!(a)
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
I'm buying copies for my dog's friends too.
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social)
Lord, have mercy.
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social)
From this day forward and every day since. Julie, you are my always. Happy Anniversary. ๐
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social)
Few voices cut through the noise like @jaredstacy.bsky.social. His work on white evangelicals, Christian Nationalism, and conspiracy culture is incisive, timely, and deeply needed. Donโt miss this book. Preorder today! #JaredStacy #RealityinRuins #Evangelicals #Conspiracy @harperonebooks.bsky.social
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social)
Conservative evangelicals and liberal feminists, traditionally at odds, now rally around anti-trans rhetoric. In *Gender Heretics*, @rebeccajanemorgan.bsky.social reveals how shared ideology, not just bigotry, binds this unlikely alliance. @plutopress.bsky.social #GenderHeretics #TransLiberation
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
Guilty
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
I've only started to unpack and process the harm Dobson had on my childhood
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
*Loon
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social)
Enjoying a laid-back afternoon and some seriously good beer at Uncommon Loom Brewing ๐ป #uncommonloon #localbeer
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
I suppose I see "superior explanation" as "fitting the data better" and the test of superiority.
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
The Ptolemaic system was wrong but coherent, yes. That's why the model that superseded it didn't rely on it being incoherent but on being a superior explanation. That's what I take Tom to be attempting with amipotence. I'm just trying to sharpen his critique.
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
But like I said, what I *think* you are getting at is something like, coherent or not, omnipotence has drastic implications for theodicy. That's where I'm with Tom completely.
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
What I gather you are pointing to are the moral implications of a view like omnipotence. Tom does this too, and I think very well. And this is exactly where I think the argument should go. If "death by a thousand qualifications" means "it has to be qualified a lot" then that rules out most theology!
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
As far as Aquinas's system, of course it relies on other ideas to make it hang together. So does Tom's. I'm not even saying Aquinas is necessarily correct, merely asking what sort of objection is being leveled against omnipotence. Tom sometimes seems to indicate it's internally incoherent.
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
Thanks for your thoughts. I'll say that I think you nicely illustrated precisely the point I was trying to make. Trying to say omnipotence is incoherent is a tall order. I only talked about one version that is perfectly internally incoherent, Aquinas's version. There are many others.
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
Absolutely!
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social)
One of the most personally meaningful books Iโve read in years. As a white man and a father, I felt its critique of pseudo-masculine faith and right-wing ideology with aching clarity. Names the danger but offers hope. @angeladenker.bsky.social @broadleafbooks.bsky.social #DisciplesofWhiteJesus
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social)
"Faith is a gift. To receive this gift means putting oneself behind Jesus as he walks, putting his teachings into practice, and proclaiming the reign of God." โGustavo Gutiรฉrrez, "Where Will the Poor Sleep?"
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
Hahahahah same! youtu.be/gCRTNZDNiFM?...
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
We had the whole movie series set and watched them on repeat! And the Superkids!
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
youtu.be/l-YJ9WZTV-4?...
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social)
Yeah I guess you could say I'm a Western movie buff #justevangelicalthings #exvangelical #kennethcopeland #covenantrider
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social)
New email signoff: "Between Aslan's Paws"
Dr. Lucky Tran (@luckytran.com) reposted
Are the mRNA vaccines incredible? YES! Are the mRNA vaccines perfect? No. Have the mRNA vaccines saved millions of lives? YES! Can we make the mRNA vaccines even better? YES! Can we use mRNA vaccine technology to prevent and treat many other diseases? YES! Fund mRNA research!
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social)
I'm remembering why I love Aquinas so much.
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
But internally, within its own conceptual structure, it holds. And as I took Tomโs argument, he thinks it fails on its own terms. To me, the better argument is that omnipotence isn't incoherent, it's *monstrous*
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
For me, the heart of the matter is this: unless someone can show that omnipotence, understood in this framework, collapses on its own terms, then it remains coherent. There are broader critiques out there. Some might challenge the distinction itself or even question divine simplicity altogether.
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
This breaks the circularity, since Godโs power is not solely understood as โGod can do whatever God does.โ I know that was a lot, and I appreciate you sticking with me.
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
But, and hereโs the key, in our minds, we conceptually distinguish power from will. Thatโs the relation of reason Iโve mentioned. Conceptualizing power in this way allows us to consider Godโs power as united w/ Godโs will (ordained power), and also Godโs absolute power encompassing all possibilty
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
This is why I mentioned there is no โreal,โ ontological distinction between Godโs power and will in Godโs own being. This unity underpins what Aquinas calls Godโs ordained power (potentia ordinata), Godโs power as it relates to what God actually wills.
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
But since, for Aquinas, Godโs will is the cause of all things, doesnโt that bring us back to the idea that Godโs power is contained in the fact that God can do everything God does? And therefore, succumb to circularity?
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
For Aquinas, itโs not just that God can do everything God does; itโs that God can do everything that isnโt a contradiction in terms.
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
The reason this is relevant is that I was applying this to answer the charge of circularity. Aquinas notes, along with Oord, that just saying โGod is omnipotent because God can do everything God doesโ is circular.
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
Those terms mark relations of reason, conceptual distinctions our intellects impose, without implying any real division in God. Just as โleftโ vs โrightโ names a purely mental orientation rather than two independent realities, so power and wisdom differ only in our apprehension not in Godโs essence.
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
These distinctions were applied to help make sense of divine simplicity. Classically, Godโs power and will are not ontologically distinct; they are identical in Godโs own being. Yet our finite minds grasp God only through effects in the world, so we speak of things like Godโs mercy, power, or wisdom
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
Drawing from Aristotle, the medieval thinkers noted that things can be related to each other in different ways. E.g., a parent and child have a real, ontological relationship with each other. But other things, like the concept of โleftโ and โright,โ are epistemological and related only in the mind
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
Iโm not trying to make โrealโ do all the heavy lifting as if it solves the problem outright. What Iโm pointing to is the way medieval thinkers used the distinction between real relations and relations of reason to navigate concepts like divine simplicity.
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
For Tomโs proposal to be compelling, I think he needs to show not only why it works, but why itโs superior to other models of divine power, like omnipotence. Where I am less confident in his proposal is that omnipotence is incoherent. I confess to being a little puzzled by your objection
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
Thanks for your pushback. Before I respond, I just want to get clear about what it is youโre objecting to. Iโm glad youโre with Tom! I am too. At least, with his overall project of reframing divine power. What Tom is proposing is nothing less than a complete reframing of divine power.
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
I agree! They're contained in the very definition of what a theodicy is. I just want to be clear about the sort of objection you're raising. It's not one of coherence, it's one of moral plausibility. That is, whether omnipotence can be reconciled with God's goodness and the scale of suffering.
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social)
Looking forward to this! Sign up here. @outfrontmn.bsky.social #outfront #outfrontmn #queertheology #queertheology101 ๐ณ๏ธโ๐๐ณ๏ธโโง๏ธ secure.everyaction.com/TCYbNCt18UaE...
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
๐๐๐
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social)
Today they tell me: If you do not love war, if you do not kill a dove a day, God will punish you If you give the poor ideas instead of a kiss, if you talk to them of justice instead of charity, God will punish you, God will punish you. Mamma, is that really our God? Juan Gonzalo Rose, La Pregunta
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social)
โI have come to cast fire upon the earth, and how I wish it were already ablaze!" Luke 12:49, NRSVue
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
Amen.
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
"And this has been allowed to continue because of the principles that underlie the way that we have formed our society. We're going to take a deep look at those principles and ask ourselves, Is this the society that we want? Or can we do better?" (12โ13).
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
"Critically challenging the police will lead us to discover some very difficult truths... one thing the police do consistently well is subjugate already marginalized communities. They interrupt the lives of Black, Indigenous, Latinx, brown, poor, queer, trans, and disabled people with regularity."
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social)
I was raised to see police as "the good guys." But the witness of the wounded and the weight of history tells another story. As a minister, Iโm called to challenge systems that oppress. *Defund* dares us to imagine justice beyond policing. @sandela.bsky.social @pantheonbooks.bsky.social #defund
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
Goodbye
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
I'm loving the slow burn!
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social)
Let's go! ๐ฝ๐ #alienearth
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
"What emerged in the mid-century media environment and expanded over the decades is a shadow realm of false histories and half-truths that uses the language of faith and family and caricatures of what a liberal is to exalt the category of 'real' Americans, to hell with everyone else" (7).
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
"The shadow part of the shadow gospel refers to the versions of conservatism and Christianity that have been conjured through anti-liberal messages..."
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
"In this book, we call the not-quite-religion on display the shadow gospel. The gospel part of the shadow gospel refers to eighty years of densely overlapping messages about a historically ungrounded, hyperbolized liberal devil..."
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
Yes! Elizabeth A. Johnson, Truly Our Sister: A Theology of Mary in the Communion of Saints (New York: Continuum, 2006), 99.
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social)
Raised in a charismatic church where liberalism was cast as demonic, *The Shadow Gospel* is both familiar and clarifying. Reveals how spiritual distortions and apocalyptic fervor fuel todayโs war on democracy. Essential reading. @whitneyphillips.bsky.social @mitpress.bsky.social #theshadowgospel
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social)
โMaryโs Assumption is a promise that the body, the earth, the oppressed, will not be left behind. She rises, not to escape, but to draw all creation into Godโs embrace.โ โElizabeth A. Johnson Art: "Assumption" by Patricia Brintle #AssumptionOfMary #MarianArt #SacredArt
Chris Lilley โ ๐ต๐ธ๐บ๐ฆ (@frostinthepines.bsky.social) reply parent
As far as your can of worms question about theodicy, I agree. In fact, I alluded to this in my conclusion and it's where I think Tom's view has the most theological purchase. I just was focused on the more narrow question of the coherence of qualified omnipotence.