Make Democrats Sane Again Yet to see an "Anti-Zionist" who even knows what Zionism means.
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It makes me furious that the Wikipedia definition states "Zionists wanted to create a Jewish state in Palestine with as much land, as many Jews, and as few Palestinian Arabs as possible." If that was their goal then they must've failed miserably, since the Palestinian population has skyrocketed.
I'm defending definitions. I hate Netanyahu. I want him gone. I want peace and prosperity for Palestinians. I don't think what is happening meets the criteria for "genocide", but I still think it's bad.
I don't support it. I want a ceasefire as soon as possible.
You were the one who responded to me in the first place, so it seems like you do. You just seem unable to support your own statement. I hope one day your anger won't preclude you from thinking logically. Shalom.
I made my case. Maybe I'm wrong. But you said "Its not a war. It’s a genocide." How is it not a war?
Why can't Israel's critics ever be civil? I'm not saying I approve of the actions of Israel. I'm just talking about definitions here. I hope one day your hatred of Israel won't stop you from thinking with logic instead of anger. Shalom.
Point 3 I said even if it is a genocide. Let's assume it is. How does that make it not a war?
Because genocide is about intent. It's obviously a good thing that they didn't, but Israel clearly has the military might to have ended this a lot sooner but didn't. You don't really "hold back" in a genocide. You don't announce warnings or redirect groups to other regions.
Oh, and 4. "a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group". This conflict is not against Arabs or Muslims. It's against Hamas. Even if you want to say Gazans. They still don't belong to one of those protected groups. But why don't you at least try addressing point#3?
1. If Israel had genocidal intent, this would've been over in 2023. 2. What other genocide can the victims leaders end? Surrender and return the hostages and its over. 3. Even if it is a genocide, those two things aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, genocides almost always occur within a war.
I would agree with you that every life is of equal worth, assuming that person is a civilian. Yes, the Palestinians who died on the same day is also a tragedy. But about 150,000 people die around the world every day. We can't mourn all those lives. This is about these two deaths not others.
Actually, I'm done engaging with you. You seem to think WW2 was a "Germany-Jew War". Keep convincing yourself you're not an Antisemite. Shalom.
So, I go back to my 2nd comment. You're saying anyone who works for an embassy of a country that you say has committed genocide should be brought before a War Tribunal? Just trying to determine why these people are so evil. BTW, not that you'd care, the event was for aid throughout the Mid East.
Well, I don't recall justifying that. I doubt you saw anyone else justifying it either. I apologize for my apology. For a minute there, I actually thought you were the 1% of Israel's critics who can discuss things in a mature manner. Better luck next time I guess.
I'm not going to continue addressing all these issues. I'll just say this. I'm not saying Israel isn't flawed and beyond rebuke. But the scale of hatred directed at them compared to the crimes in the rest of the world means there must be something else going on. Just consider that. Goodnight.
The UNRWA own report concluded that 19 of their own members were involved in the Oct. 7th attacks. www.unrwa.org/newsroom/off... So yes, I'd say that's a problem. How come the UN peacekeepers in Lebanon did nothing to hold back Hezbollah, which is the reason Israel was firing in the first place?
Israel left all Gaza Strip settlements in 2005. Regardless, I don't know how someone can say they're worse than every world nation combined. This is a country about the size and population of New Jersey. And if it's just about the U.S. support, even the U.S. didn't get this much hate for Iraq.
The shooter opened fire on four random people. There is no evidence at all that he knew who he killed, let alone where they worked. And yea, I'm going to take the stance of "Someone having opinions I don't like isn't justification for murder". You're sick.
What? Bigotry is based on intent. Not where the victims happen to work. If someone shot up a Black church, and killed two people who happened to be teachers, is that going to be reported as an "anti-academic" attack?
You're sick. Get help.
Please show me any evidence he knew who he shot or what their job was. And yes, if he was at a Muslim event hosted by Muslims, that would be an Islamophobic attack, regardless of who the victims were. Because the intent would clearly have been to kill Muslims.
No, you immediately said they should've been tried before a War Tribunal. I'm just trying to determine what they did that would deserve that.
What straw man? I'm trying to find out from you why these victims deserved a war tribunal. Your argument seems to be because the embassy they work for and their social media. So I'm just wondering if you feel the same way about workers at other embassies, and what's so abhorrent about their socials?
Ah yes. I don't think people should be shot dead in the streets of the U.S., simply for leaving a Jewish event. Because, again, the killer didn't know where they worked. And, again, even if he did, I don't think "working at an embassy" is grounds for a war tribunal. But I'm dumb.
Apologies. My sarcasm might've come off as hostile. I hope you understand the kind of vitriol I've seen on this site, but you actually seem more civil than most. I just meant that I think the U.N., and many other organizations, are highly biased against Israel. Long before this war started.
Okay, so people deserve to be brought before War Tribunals for their social media feeds. That sounds pretty authoritarian to me, but I'll indulge you. What did these victims post that was a "full throated support for Ethnic Cleansing & Genocide"?
So, I assume you're calling for everyone who works for the Sudan, Myanmar, Chinese, Russian, Ethiopian, Iraqi and Syrian embassy to be brought before the War Tribunals? Even the janitors?
Thank you for engaging with me in good faith. I will clarify. My argument isn't "Why are Americans mad at US military support for Israel?" That I can understand. My argument is what does any of that have to do with two people being gunned down just for walking out of an event?
Brought in front of a War Crimes Tribunal for working at an embassy? Ironic that you guys accuse everyone else as being Nazis.
There is no evidence that the shooter had any knowledge of where his victims worked. He fired at four people, hitting two. He went to an event hosted by a Jewish organization, at a Jewish museum, to kill people. I don't know how you can sincerely claim it has nothing to do with Jews.
You're going to compare firing warning shots in the West Bank to executing two strangers in D.C.? Yea, that makes total sense.
Okay, sure. Israel breaks more UN obligations than every other country combined, even when they're not in wartime and other countries are. It's not that there's a bias because there are 100x as many Muslims in the world than Jews. That makes sense.
If you read the two sentence long article they source where the info came from. But I guess it's just easier to dismiss something out of hand that goes against your narrative?
The original post was "two genociders getting shot casts a harsh spotlight on people who think genocide is bad". How did the shooter even know the opinions of his victims? Does it matter? Does supporting any country, or politician, for whatever reason, mean you're a "genocider"?
Even before this war, Israel has been uniquely targeted. There have been multiple years where Israel has been condemned more than the rest of the world...combined. Maybe Israel really is bad. But worse than Iran, North Korea, Sudan, Russia, China combined? www.timesofisrael.com/un-condemned...
If the issue is just the U.S. support, why has the whole world come together to focus their rage on Israel? Why aren't there millions of people protesting in other countries against the RSF or the Myanmar government? If the U.S. stopped it's support, do you think Americans would stop hating Israel?
Yes, it's horrible that Hamas cares so little about it's own people that they purposely hide under their hospitals and in residential areas. m.jpost.com/breaking-new... But, we're not even talking about the war. We're talking about how two people were murdered and you can't even say "That's bad."
Have they? I've heard about this war nonstop for the last 19 months. How much do you hear in the news about Sudan? Myanmar? Ethiopia? How come the world only screams "genocide" when it's Israel at war? Oh, yea. No Jews, No News.
Even if the guy knew that his victims worked at the Embassy (he didn't), that still doesn't justify their murder. I'm against Putin and his war. Do I have the right to kill people who have a job at the Russian embassy? It's very depressing that I even have to state this.
It's stupidity, but a lot of it is also stubbornness. They cannot ever admit that there's ever anything done on "their side" that's bad. So either it's a false flag, or he was left with no choice, or "...but Gaza". It would seem simple to just state "This is bad", but they just can't do it.
All the comments here show just how lost the Left has become. Two people were assassinated because they were at a Jewish event. The shooter had no idea who his victims were or where they worked. If you cannot see this as evil, or feel the need to say "...but Gaza", you are irredeemable.
Me usually: Hey, "Anti-Zionist", you're really concerned about what's happening in Israel/Palestine. You know there's all these other wars going on... Them: That's Whataboutism! Me this week: Wow, these two people murdered just for being at a Jewish event is tragic. Them: WHAT ABOUT GAZA???
Bit of trivia: The time between the first Jews in Israel and the creation of Islam, is greater than the time between the creation of Islam and the present.
Right. I said the killer "assumed" they were Jewish. Maybe he also assumed they were pro-Israel. But there's no evidence, at all, that he knew where they worked. And you claimed they were killed because they worked at the embassy. That, is YOU, spinning the narrative.
He went to an event organized by a Jewish group, at a Jewish museum, to kill Jews. He fired at four random people. He had no idea where they worked. These people were murdered because the killer, at least assumed, they were Jewish. That's not "spinning the narrative". It's just self-evident.
This is Morris. A big boy making himself as small as he can.
You're Jewish? Then you're a shanda. The killer had no idea what the nationalities of his victims were. He waited outside a Jewish museum, hosted by a Jewish organization, with the intent to murder Jews. This isn't hard.
How did the killer know the victims worked at the embassy?
Joined this app to get away from Elon's bigotry, only to catch it from the other end of the spectrum.
Damn, genocide since the 90's...Israel really sucks at this genocide thing, huh?
What are you talking about? There is no evidence he knew the two of them. Neither of them are Israeli. He targeted a Jewish event. Antisemitism is a hatred of Jews. It has nothing to do with people who speak Semitic languages.
I don't even know why it's worth engaging with the likes of you. The Far-Left has become truly sick. I promise you if Nazis were alive today, they would much rather align with the side that agrees with gunning down Jews in the street. Get help.
Or, and he's a crazy thought, no Tweet justifies the death penalty! Hey, I'm against the Russians in their war against Ukraine. Do I think that someone deserves the death penalty for daring to disagree with me? Do I think it's horribly disrespectful to equate opinions I don't like to literal Nazis?
Okay, so this guy deserved to be executed for supporting a country. Lovely. I guess there's no point in continuing this chat then. Just don't be surprised when Republicans keep winning. Shalom.
You referring to the post he shared saying how the UN retracted a story about 14,000 starving Gazans? So, just to clarify, he deserves to be tried and executed for sharing a story about an error that was made? By the way, the event he was at was to try to help Gazans. www.bbc.com/news/live/cy...
Okay, what Tweet did he write that justifies the death penalty?
The man went into a Jewish museum to seek out people to murder. How is that not antisemitism?
Please tell me what Tweet justifies getting gunned down in the street.
The irony is that if Israel actually were genocidal then this wouldn't be going on for 19 months.
All right. I'm done engaging with you. Just got one more term for you to learn the meaning of, just so you know how deplorable you are. "Holocaust Inversion".
Yea, a border is not a concentration camp. It's certainly not a "Holocaust" (not to mention how fucked up it is to compare it to that). Why do you think there were restrictions? Do you think that the lesson of Oct. 7th is that Gazans should've had complete free reign to butcher Jews this whole time?
Learn the meaning of words.
Not sure why I'm entertaining such a loaded question, but no Gaza was not a concentration camp. And yes, many people murdered on Oct. 7th were ones trying to make peace with Gazans. www.reuters.com/world/the-pe...
Jews have been kicked out of every other Middle Eastern country (a fact Israel's critics love to ignore). If Israel ended, and it was just Palestine, do you think that Hamas and the Islamic Jihad are going to be more generous to having Jewish neighbors than their Arab brethren?
Dude, your username is amazing.
Oh and: 1. I don't believe the word of the Bible. But observant Jews due. And the religion is VERY MUCH about Israel. 2. Yes, there's lots of murdering on all sides. That's what war is. That's why I want peace and not Jews being expelled...AGAIN. 3. Israelites are a people...from Israel 🤦♂️.
You claimed Judaism has nothing to do with Zionism. When it has everything to do with Zionism. Again, Zionism is not an endorsement of Israeli policy. See this video from this week: youtu.be/mUl8vn3jKo4?... These people, Jews and Arabs, hate the war. They are still Zionists.
Zionism simply is the right for the Jewish people to exist and have autonomy in their ancestral homeland. You can use it as a slur all you want, but that is all it is. It has absolutely nothing to do with an endorsement of Netanyahu or Israeli policy. And it has everything to do with being Jewish.
Yes, it is the Jewish homeland. Jews are literally refered to as "the Israelites" in the Bible. They face Israel to pray. "Jew" comes from the Kingdom of Judah which along with the Kingdom of Israel made up the modern region. There have been tons of archeological evidence as well.
You said "Remove the Zionists". What do you think that entails? Nearly every Israeli is a Zionist. Imagine saying "When America ceases to exist, we're going to kill or expel everyone who believes America has the right to exist." So your plan is removing half the world's Jews and their homeland.
How naive are you to truly believe that one nation called Palestine would "let" the Jews continue to live with them? So the rest of the Middle East kicked out their Jews (a fact you haters seem to ignore), but oh, a country controlled by Hamas and Islamic Jihad are totally gonna share their land?
So, you're calling for the genocide of most of the world's Jews? Lovely. And I assume all of the Muslim occupied countries can just continue on as normal?
Ah yes, I'm sure we could all cherry-pick extremists to demonize an entire group. What's the term for that again? Oh yea, bigotry.
It's not about how bad of a movie 1984 was. It's that people loathe Gal Gadot for simply not being ashamed of the country she was born in. I can't imagine feeling that way about anyone, regardless of where they come from.
The Far-Left has helped Netanyahu just like they have helped Trump. They push people in the middle towards the Right, because moderates want as little to do with them as possible.
And people say that Hamas is "fighting for Palestinians". Imagine another war: One side is obligated to provide its enemy supplies, otherwise they're "committing genocide." Meanwhile, the other side is not expected to support their own citizens, AND not held to account for stealing from them.
I understand that these services are important. I want them to continue. My only question is why are taxpayers footing the bill, when Harvard could certainly afford it? It would be one thing if it's a public college, but why are very wealthy private universities getting federal funds?
As much as I loathe Trump, why does a place like Harvard need federal funds to begin with? They have a $50 billion endowment as it is.
Ladino! apps.lib.umich.edu/online-exhib...
Very well. Last message from me. I have been civil while you have called me many names. I hope one day you learn that Zionists are not a monolith. We are not all evil and we are tired of eternal war. I hope one day your hatred of Israel will not get in the way of the truth. Shalom.
If the situation were reversed, there would be no Jews in the region. They would all be kicked out or killed. This is what I have shown you has happened in the rest of the Middle East. This is the explicit goal of groups like Hamas. And this has what has happened to Jews for thousands of years.
The history of the world is one of persecution, murder, and conquering. It was unfair and should be taught. But we can't go back. Countries are where they are. The best thing to do is to try to coexist in peace with each other. Maybe if someone was directly harmed try to make reparations.
That is easy to say, but how would that occur? Practically speaking? Everyone just has to go back to where they came from? How far back are we talking about? 100 years? 1,000 years? And when all the White people are gone, what about the Native tribes? They killed each other and conquered land too.
Yes, lots of people do lots of bad things on both sides of this conflict. And they should all face prosecution. You can be a Zionist and disagree with the way Israel is being run. Millions of Israelis do. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2...
How is it an ethnostate? It is very diverse. Israeli Arabs have every right that Jews do. And if you were truly against ethnostates, you would be speaking out against the dozens of other countries that are run by religious law and kick out people of other faiths.
We are not our ancestors. Nearly every country has committed sins in its history. Nearly every country has displaced and murdered. Why is it only the one Jewish country, about the size and population of New Jersey, that people say has no right to exist? Why not the U.S., U.K., Russia, China?
Let me state this plainly: Zionism is the belief that Jews have the right to exist and have self-determination in Israel/Palestine. That is it. It does not require any Muslim or Christian to lose their home or lives. I don't think anyone, who isn't Antisemitic, would disagree with this.
I've done to Palestinians? What, have I made a decision about every Israel policy over the last 80 years? I'm in my 30's. I have no interest in hurting or bothering any Palestinian. So have non-Arab Jews just "lost their right" to live in Israel because of their country's history?
"Anybody has the right to exist anywhere." Except for the Jews kicked out of the rest of the Middle East, right? They don't count I guess? Anyway, congrats! You believe Jews have the right to exist and have autonomy in Israel. You're a Zionist! So I guess you're saying you can't think?
But I go back to my previous question. Assuming no one dies or loses their home, do you think that Jews have the right to exist, and have self-determination, in their ancestral homeland? Regardless where they come from? Yes or no.
It does not need to entail that. Early Zionist settlers purchased land legally, usually in undeveloped land, such as the area that became Tel-Aviv. And, like I said, there have been studies, showing a connection to the land. scopeblog.stanford.edu/2013/12/20/n...
There have been DNA tests that have shown a genetic connection between Middle Eastern, African and European Jews. Also, Hebrew was spoken as much by European Jews as Arab Jews. Do you believe that European Jews do not have the right to have a home in Israel/Palestine?
It has nothing to do with their "divine right". It is their ancestral home and there have been Jews living there consistently for thousands of years. Assuming no one dies or loses their home, do you think that Jews have the right to exist, and have self-determination, in their ancestral homeland?
These people just don't know the meaning of anything. They just shout buzzwords at people all the time and don't even bother to look up the definitions. For example, the Holocaust SPECIFICALLY refers to the Nazi campaign against the Jews. There is no other Holocaust. They're all just dumb bullies.
Okay, fine what is Zionism? Also, if you hate ethnostates so much I assume you spend at least as much time speaking out against ACTUAL ethnostates?
It's not JUST about Hamas. It's about other groups they are fighting, such as Islamic Jihad. It's about getting the hostages back. And it's about making sure this never happens again.
Just saw this one a couple of minutes ago (about Eurovision).
