So it had nothing to do with budget overruns, delays, project cancellations, a lack of clear strategic goals, poor governance, or overambitious design that has ruined HS2. It was people's opinions.
Replies
Nimbyism ruined HS2. Just as it does pretty much all infrastructure projects and spending, housing, transport etc here in the UK.
aug 30, 2025, 8:23 pm • 4 0 • view
Elizabeth line had all that as well. Once it opened and became a far bigger success than anyone predicted it all got forgotten.
aug 30, 2025, 6:33 pm • 15 0 • view
It was about 25% over budget according to Google. Not 4x over initial full budget for 25% of the line.
aug 30, 2025, 7:55 pm • 1 0 • view
It was people in the Chilterns complaining to their Tory Councils and Tory MPs about HS coming anywhere near them. So the government force a design change: several cuttings become tunnels. Tunnels are, of course much more expensive.
aug 30, 2025, 9:08 pm • 1 0 • view
Not only did the government changes make it more expensive, but they had already paid for the initial design, so they paid twice. Then there’s Tory councils refusing planning permission, again forcing expensive changes.
aug 30, 2025, 9:16 pm • 0 0 • view
Not so. Local councils, Tory or otherwise, can't override the High Speed Rail Act. Local councils are consulted under Schedule 17 to ensure local construction and aesthetics are considered.
aug 30, 2025, 9:45 pm • 0 0 • view
The reality wasn’t as neat as that. “In reality, the hybrid bill only offered "deemed planning permission" - HS2 say they have since needed to acquire more than 8,000 further permissions from councils and other agencies. It hasn't always been given.” www.bbc.co.uk/news/article...
aug 31, 2025, 6:47 am • 0 0 • view
Wow! Big projects have big challenges. Who knew?
aug 31, 2025, 6:53 am • 0 0 • view
You didn’t read it, did you? The point is planning permission was refused 8000 times…. resulting in work being repeated. companies don’t do extra work for free.
aug 31, 2025, 7:00 am • 0 0 • view
I did read it, thank you. Did you honestly think that the first proposal would be the final one? Or that the initial budget would be the eventual cost? It's an iterative process. Circumstances change, and proposals have to be amended accordingly. Do you understand how large this project is?
aug 31, 2025, 7:07 am • 0 0 • view
I’m not talking about a “proposal”, I’m talking about a detailed design that took years to do.
aug 31, 2025, 7:24 am • 0 0 • view
I understand your view, and your passion, but even detailed designs are just a starting point. I worked for IBM and some of the systems being developed had thousands of revisions. Getting the product right is what is important.
aug 31, 2025, 7:34 am • 0 0 • view
Sure. But it’s unlikely that IBM made those changes to make an MP in a marginal seat happy. That’s not “getting the product right “, that’s politics.
aug 31, 2025, 7:54 am • 0 0 • view
Who would have thought that a crap joke about opinions would have sparked such an, erm, interesting ? discussion.
aug 30, 2025, 9:18 pm • 0 0 • view
Earth from the cuttings would have to go somewhere, probably on the road at a huge cost to the public and the environment. The cut-and-cover tunnels can be covered and planted over. Much better in the long term in my opinion. And they amount to about 15 miles out of a total of 65 miles of tunnels.
aug 30, 2025, 9:37 pm • 0 0 • view
The point is the changes. The engineering company had designed and planned cuttings, and this had been agreed with the customer and paid for. Then the government demanded a completely different design. The company will charge LOADs for that repeated work.
aug 31, 2025, 6:56 am • 0 0 • view
Your view is short-sighted. It is the destination that is important, not the journey. Nice metaphor, huh?
aug 31, 2025, 6:58 am • 0 0 • view
I agree. I say build it to Manchester. I’m trying to explain why the costs expanded.
aug 31, 2025, 7:02 am • 0 0 • view
Because the circumstances changed...technical challenges, staffing costs, geology, scope...
aug 31, 2025, 7:21 am • 0 0 • view
Yes all of that. But government enforced changes after a detailed design had been agreed was always going add cost.
aug 31, 2025, 7:25 am • 0 0 • view
Yes, it was. But they reacted to a changing situation.
aug 31, 2025, 7:36 am • 0 0 • view
Rubbish. The “situation” was people complaining about the line.
aug 31, 2025, 7:42 am • 0 0 • view
Isn't only about 9 minutes of the journey in daylight?
aug 31, 2025, 7:39 am • 0 0 • view
20% of London-Birmingham is in tunnels, 27 miles.
aug 31, 2025, 7:48 am • 0 0 • view
Nope. 65 miles in 11 tunnels. www.hs2.org.uk/building-hs2...
aug 31, 2025, 7:53 am • 0 0 • view
Yes, 65 miles of tunnels but not 65 route miles. I.e a 1 mile north bound tunnel and a separate 1 mile south bound tunnel will be counted as 2 miles in total but only 1 route mile.
aug 31, 2025, 7:58 am • 0 0 • view
Unfortunately the route has to go both ways. And 2 x 27 isn't 65.
aug 31, 2025, 8:10 am • 0 0 • view
Depends on what time you set off
aug 31, 2025, 7:45 am • 1 0 • view
🤣👍
aug 31, 2025, 7:49 am • 0 0 • view
The earth gets piled up as embankments either side which is planted and saves money on covering or dumping it elsewhere.
aug 31, 2025, 8:24 am • 0 0 • view
There's way more spoil than can be used for that, and it still has to be transported. Cut and cover reduces that
aug 31, 2025, 8:30 am • 1 0 • view
It was people's opinions which caused that.
aug 31, 2025, 8:22 am • 0 0 • view
There was a clear strategic goal, and the design was not “overambitious” (given how other countries are planning for greater service speeds). What has wrecked HS2 is the Tories’ endless meddling, pandering to southern NIMBYs and listening to tits like Andrew Gilligan.
aug 30, 2025, 6:02 pm • 7 0 • view
No
aug 30, 2025, 6:03 pm • 3 0 • view