you don't think they carefully curate those circumstances to play to their advantage, though? I think about how Sam Seder is one of the most effective debaters in the left media space and how desperately the right avoided him for years. I don't know how else to explain that other than they're afraid

I don’t understand your first sentence. That’s exactly what Jubilee is. What.

I mean sure, you might be right about that. to my eye it seems less curated than "here's a panel of 6 guys who are all going to talk over the guest and immediately change topics once an effective challenge has been presented", but sure. I don't know that this is an ideal format, it's probably not.

but I'm just so absurdly frustrated with the left continuing to go "just stand real still and they'll go away" when that's largely what we've been saying for a decade and it clearly hasn't worked, and I don't see these people presenting alternatives.

like both hasan and seders appearances seemed more effective in reaching these audiences than anything I've seen in a LONG time, yet the left stilllll wants to dismiss the entire concept as inherently harmful .../

/... bc appearing on the same stream as these people gives them airtime, when they'd have it otherwise anyway, and it would just be unchallenged. which is what they've primarily been doing for decades. maybe the left needs an alternative to this format itself, idk. but ignoring them doesn't work.

*a decade I should say, ever since they stopped being fringe. to be clear I'm speaking within the context of the modern media ecosystem, not legacy media, and I'm talking about how we reach the particular audiences that watch people like nick fuentes, tim pool, and yes jubilee

or, and maybe especially, people who play around with watching them. I think folks underestimate how many young people are still finding their political identity and how much of a part of that process this type of content plays in that. it's really important to reach those people somehow.

And if you cannot see that, that’s exactly my entire point.

so, honestly, what is the alternative? do we need a different format, a jubilee for the left that is designed to shine a bigger light on the guys that go "yeah actually I AM a huge racist", "yeah actually I AM completely ignoring facts to cling to my established but clearly flawed model of reality"?

because again, I can see that. and surely thats an important part of this conversation. but i don't know what the next best alternative is and when I see normies (forgive me) cringing over these people saying "yes I'm racist" or "the federal gov pays taxes" I'm confident "just ignore them" is not it

Seder is an exception, not the rule. He understands the game is rigged before he plays. For every Seder, theres 100 breadtubers who got overconfident and gave a fascist a gotcha moment.

you have a point, although this still kinda validates my frustration with people shitting all over Medhi Hasan for participating in it (moreso than they did on Sam) when he's also extremely skilled at this. also consider if Seder and Hasans got so much attention *because* they're so good at this.

I don't think many people were exposed to breadtube vs "idw" debates except for people who already hung around breadtube or idw. so bringing out people who can do this effectively seems to inherently have that much more reach as far as I can tell. so don't think those gotchas matter as much.

if we have Hasans and Seders shouldnt use them to our advantage & maybe let other people to learn from it so that we can cultivate more of an understanding of how these arguments are basically always in bad faith and how you approach them in such a way to expose their flaws like Sam does?

I look at the kids like Parker doing debates on TikTok with randoms who just repeat RW rhetoric and how accessible it is to such a wide audience on that platform and can't help but think that they don't HAVE to be the exception. because what we want to combat is the ideas, not the personality.

it's kind of a counterpart to things like crowders "change my mind" shit where he'd talk to inexperienced college freshman. that kind of content attracted a huge audience and I think we should consider that this dynamic can be fostered and shaped more effectively to our advantage.