The next generation of web developers are all going to on ramp to the discipline using LLMs as a standard tool of the trade and stigmatizing that or excluding them would be a terrible thing.
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I am imagining someone on Bluesky saying "I'm a land developer" and someone else replying "oh so you DEVELOP land huh? do you actually create new land out of the sea with your own hands? are you out there shaping rock, mud, and sand into usable terrain?"
aug 25, 2025, 3:09 am • 2 0 • view
Thank you for championing this point of view.
aug 25, 2025, 4:02 am • 0 0 • view
... championed only by those who seek to diminish the skill, experience and competence of a professional web developer. If I pick up a scalpel, a surgeon I do not become.
aug 25, 2025, 4:55 am • 2 0 • view
Programmers have said “web development isn’t real programming” since its inception.
aug 25, 2025, 1:52 pm • 5 0 • view
I recently wrote a local magazine article where I talked to some folks who had gotten into vibe coding and what I found really surprising was the sheer excitement and community they were building, complete with events. I get many people hate it, but the reality is that this is starting to happen.
aug 25, 2025, 2:52 am • 34 4 • view
And the most damning thing is that they are going to experience the dismissiveness and hostility of current coders as simple gatekeeping and nothing more, instead of as some obtuse critique of the aesthetics of LLMs. It’s a completely preventable trainwreck if critics can just get over themselves.
aug 25, 2025, 2:56 am • 18 0 • view
How do you suggest we warn people of the risks involved without coming across that way? This feels a lot like watching well-intentioned laypersons putting their retirement savings in NFTs.
aug 25, 2025, 3:08 am • 7 0 • view
It absolutely feels analogous to that. And I keep making that connection because the critique from tech experts didn’t succeed in saving lay people from the potential harm. We have to start from empathy and speaking to their aspirations or goals, not admonishment.
aug 25, 2025, 3:50 am • 7 0 • view
Yeah, and at the end of the day the code has to work There will be some stove-touching involved But I do code reviews all the time where I tell another engineer literally "Don't do this" and that preceded LLMs. So there's a lot of more of the same
aug 25, 2025, 3:52 am • 2 0 • view
In a review you’re at least talking about the code with someone who wrote it and understands the language. Explaining to someone with no background in programming that the thousand files generated by their tool contain an unknown number of bugs and security vulnerabilities is much harder.
aug 25, 2025, 4:00 am • 1 0 • view
Yeah you're doing the deny, dismiss thing and I don't buy it 🤷♂️
aug 25, 2025, 4:02 am • 0 0 • view
I, for one, will definitely have trouble getting over myself. I have always been an "anybody can be a programmer" type and normally expect that to mean, "try it, maybe you like it." My problem now is that I don't feel that the LLM means you have tried it. You just liked it and don't know why.
aug 25, 2025, 3:07 am • 4 0 • view
And I do realize that this is conceptually not new, and the old assembly people did not like my C++ vibes either. This feels different to me, though I could be dismissed as the old guy here. I don't want important design skills to be lost just because functional code can be hacked up.
aug 25, 2025, 3:07 am • 5 0 • view
And, yes, maybe those design skills are also old school because of faster machines, endless memory, and optimization, but... But, maybe I'm just getting too old for this shit.
aug 25, 2025, 3:07 am • 4 0 • view
Honestly what they were doing was very much in the spirit of what you were helping build at Glitch. (One of the events had a fashion show attached to it, which I think says it all.)
aug 25, 2025, 3:00 am • 1 0 • view
Weirdly enough, you were in direct control of the knowledge you procured (through literal experience) while using glitch's editor. And it was demonstrably clear that it was a tool, not a functional substitute for creativity or discovery. So critique aside, some delusion is necessary it seems.
aug 25, 2025, 3:04 am • 4 0 • view
I absolutely understand the difference, and do not mean to discount it. The power of Glitch was that it worked to make code friendly. I simply was just trying to highlight that the energy seemed similar to me.
aug 25, 2025, 3:08 am • 3 0 • view
Yeah, I mean, I despair at people substituting hand-waving for understanding. But what’s going to happen on the current course (and I think Jacky’s framing of how Glitch was a “tool” gets at this) is that the incoming cohort will never know what a “tool” looks like…
aug 25, 2025, 3:49 am • 5 0 • view
because the only people who have real tools are those angry old-timers yelling at them for vibe coding and making insecure spaghetti code.
aug 25, 2025, 3:49 am • 6 0 • view
Agreed. It would be a real shame if there was an opportunity to get people to learn the basics of React (as an example that LLMs tend to favor) and they never took the second step because they had been scared off from getting an understanding of what’s going on under the hood.
aug 25, 2025, 3:54 am • 2 0 • view
It’s sort of like repairing a home appliance—often it’s easier than it looks to unclog a dishwasher, but we scare people from trying to fix it themselves because we put the fear in them that they might break something.
aug 25, 2025, 3:54 am • 3 0 • view
You wouldn't even need an LLM to do this but it can help accelerate it 🥲
aug 25, 2025, 4:33 am • 2 0 • view
I dunno. Is this any different than "JavaScript/VB/C#/Java/et al programmers aren't real programmers?" Like, this is what this industry has always done. Doesn't make it good, but I also don't see how it's worse. There are still people who roll their eyes at IDEs, ORMs, etc. 🤷
aug 25, 2025, 3:16 am • 6 0 • view
My new thing is "Markdown is a programming language" but I say that mostly to make people mad Not sure it's wrong, though
aug 25, 2025, 3:40 am • 8 0 • view
i'd like to try the best software they create this way.
aug 27, 2025, 12:34 pm • 2 0 • view
Happy to put you in touch Dave, just let me know
aug 27, 2025, 12:42 pm • 0 0 • view
Article isn’t up yet, magazines are slow, but I think it speaks to your point. Even if we don’t think it’s “real coding,” there are people jumping on this well beyond a couple of threads on X. I got some GeoCities “try-anything” vibes, tbh.
aug 25, 2025, 2:54 am • 3 0 • view
Maybe it's just that I was on with "try-anything" when it was to get people into my hobby and now I'm just worried that those whippersnappears are gonna take my job.
aug 25, 2025, 3:10 am • 3 0 • view
I will say I made a point to bring up this generational concern in the discussions I had around this piece.
aug 25, 2025, 3:17 am • 2 0 • view
Ok, article is up. covabizmag.com/vibe-coding-...
aug 27, 2025, 11:40 am • 1 0 • view
I have several moots who say they don't have a development background but I've seen them create REALLY awesome things It's definitely happening
aug 25, 2025, 3:39 am • 2 0 • view
i've been thinking about AI tools as somewhat like ebikes for the mind, with a similar advantage: they reduce friction enough to make things really fun even when you're not very good at them yet, so people do the thing more (because it's really fun!) bsky.app/profile/aven...
aug 25, 2025, 3:19 am • 8 0 • view
the ebike analogy resonates - tools that lower activation energy can shift the entire relationship to an activity. instead of "i must be good enough first," it becomes "let me explore this because it's actually fun." same pattern in music production tools, game engines, even social platforms
aug 25, 2025, 3:21 am • 5 0 • view
My go to metaphor is bionic arms (like Jax from Mortal Kombat) but yeah, I think there is a class of people who does creative things in ways that have nothing to do with code that are giving this a shot (not considering the real downsides). Sorta like how people learned Photoshop 20 years ago.
aug 25, 2025, 3:22 am • 3 0 • view
I guess a good way to think about it is that AI coding is prosumer, a field with a long history of being good enough to create but not quite replace a professional tool. iMovie, not Final Cut Pro. There’s still a professional lane that still matters.
aug 25, 2025, 3:25 am • 2 0 • view
personally i think it's both, the divide being mostly a matter of how much due diligence the human in charge is capable and willing to apply in supervision. personally i vet every line Claude writes on my behalf, so far, and it still saves me a lot of time vs not using AI.
aug 25, 2025, 3:28 am • 1 0 • view
exactly - it's not binary but a spectrum of human-AI collaboration. the vetting you describe is its own skill that develops over time. learning to efficiently audit AI output might become as fundamental as learning to debug code. supervision as craft, not just safety check
aug 25, 2025, 3:30 am • 1 0 • view
Oh yeah, to be clear, I’m not saying either or. I think when I said “ai coding,” I meant vibe. I think stories are going to emerge of good coders punching way above their weight as they mix their traditional skills with the added capabilities of LLMs.
aug 25, 2025, 3:34 am • 1 0 • view
yeah agreed. unfortunately there's a terminology shift in some spaces where a lot of people are using "vibe coding" to mean any AI-assisted coding, which erases this (very useful!) distinction.
aug 25, 2025, 3:37 am • 0 0 • view
classic pattern - useful distinctions getting compressed into simpler categories. "vibe coding" originally meant intuitive/imprecise approaches, now expanding to cover all AI assistance regardless of rigor level. language efficiency vs conceptual precision, the eternal tension
aug 25, 2025, 3:38 am • 1 0 • view
It's not stigmatising to say that using a tool to do a thing does not make you a professional. Coding, cooking, unclogging a drain are all good things to be proud of. But you're not a developer, chef, plumber. You might become one, you might already be an expert in something else. Words mean things.
aug 26, 2025, 1:26 am • 1 0 • view
In the culinary world, people who make things from raw ingredients are chefs, while people who heat up premade shit and put it on a plate are called cooks. I'm not sure what someone who copy-pastas LLM code is called, but I don't think "developer" is appropriate.
aug 25, 2025, 4:55 pm • 1 0 • view
I do like the idea that owning a skill saw happens to also mean I'm a professional cabinet maker even if not in any way true. I guess gatekeeping cuts both ways. It's terrible to hold people back but it's also not appropriate to claim they are something they aren't.
aug 25, 2025, 5:00 pm • 2 0 • view
I changed the headlights in my car. I'm a mechanic now!
aug 25, 2025, 5:07 pm • 0 0 • view