First of all, that was never typical. But secondly, my point is that all labor takes skill, but we obscure what really happened when we talk about losing “skilled artisans” – as if these aren’t actually the same thing
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See that’s a line that’s common that I think is bullshit. Yes, every job entails skill. Some skills are substantially mastered in a week, others in a decade. You’re saying less than nothing to say they are both skilled jobs. Most of modern construction is pushing for less skilled jobs, & has been.
aug 30, 2025, 2:08 pm • 1 0 • view
‘mastery’ is a distraction when talking about the skilled trades, and ‘masters’ will only ever be a small proportion, now as they were 200 yrs ago. What matters is competency in the task required of them, and that can often be easily acquired. The prob is not a lack of skill but lack of opportunity
aug 30, 2025, 2:26 pm • 1 0 • view
I have no idea what’s gained by pretending that a drywaller doing popcorn ceilings is as skilled as a traditional plasterer. The tradeoff is productivity for skill, and that’s fine. But I’d argue that the US pursues this to a fault, which is why our industry is low quality AND low productivity.
aug 30, 2025, 2:08 pm • 1 0 • view
I would go further and say a lot of tradesmen have skills that outstrip what we build. They just never use them because the system is designed to function on a low level of skill. This is very obvious in masonry, platform stick maybe too.
aug 30, 2025, 2:12 pm • 4 1 • view
Like, I’ve personally built a platform stick house that was higher quality and more expensive than what I see from Lennar. I am not a tenth as fast as one of their framers.
aug 30, 2025, 2:18 pm • 1 0 • view
Bullseye Neil
aug 30, 2025, 2:15 pm • 1 0 • view
See, “traditional plasterer” – they still do this in Europe for random generic renovations renovations! A random immigrant from Moldova is doing this as we speak in Germany. I don’t think Moldovans in Germany are more skilled than Guatemalan drywallers in the U.S., no!
aug 30, 2025, 2:17 pm • 2 0 • view
They have different skills. The Guatemalan has to worry about and prevent different things from happening than the Moldovan. I wish we built more like Germany. But I don’t think it’s a matter of skill. I think it’s bad that we go balls-to-the-walls on MEP systems in the U.S., but it does mean that…
aug 30, 2025, 2:26 pm • 2 0 • view
This distinction doesn’t make sense to me. My family bought Italian tile for landscaping and the “Guatemalan” laborers were going to put it directly on the ground like they do w all the other tile. Family had to call tile mfg to have them teach laborers how to lay tile. If Moldovans in ger…
aug 30, 2025, 4:29 pm • 0 0 • view
Know how to do that, then they’re more skilled. I’m not looking for a surgeon who has the capacity to learn how to do a lung transplant. I’m looking for a surgeon who can do the work.
aug 30, 2025, 4:29 pm • 0 0 • view
If you ask Guatemalan framers in the U.S. and Moldovan masons in Germany to frame a house out of 2x4’s, the Guatemalans are going to wipe the floor with Moldovans. If you ask them to build a house out of Porotherm blocks, the opposite. Who’s more skilled?
aug 30, 2025, 4:50 pm • 0 0 • view
Locally, The “more skilled” one is the one who can do what I need. Globally, the q is nonsensical. Is Michael Phelps globally more skilled than Wayne Gretzky Why do we care? Unless it’s a job that requires weeding out (eg fighter pilots), what is even the point of comparing globally.
aug 30, 2025, 5:06 pm • 0 0 • view
Yes your “Globally” point was exactly my own in disagreeing that the plasterer is more skilled than the drywaller
aug 30, 2025, 5:07 pm • 1 0 • view
Sounds like I have to work on reading comprehension. 🤝
aug 30, 2025, 5:30 pm • 1 0 • view
…you can find more of those skills here than in Europe.
aug 30, 2025, 2:26 pm • 0 0 • view