A woman took 5 hockey players to trial for alleged sexual assaults. She was subjected to 9 straight days of interrogation by 5 legal teams, one for each defendant. Our justice system is telling women they can't report multiple assaults or they will be victimized again. www.cbc.ca/news/canada/...
I agree ... but would be interested in hearing the solutions
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I doubt very much that what you suggest will stop all sexual assault and therefore court reform is not needed. But for sure men need to learn restraint and respect period.
The original article was about the courts. Yes what you say is obvious. But the court system needs to be changed. It is easy to complain about like this post. And I agree with the criticism. But the next step is how can the courts be reformed.
She should be recorded while explaining the events, and while answering a standardized set of questions asked by a uninvolved third party, and that's the end of the story. One time only.
Not much of a solution.
My mistake thinking it should be obvious. Start by teaching boys to respect and never touch females unless invited, and if she is intoxicated Do Not Touch! Men need to learn self-restraint! It's not that complicated. As for child abusers, that's another story for another day.
*BE* the solution. Women are tired of being told that the world isn't fair. Women are tired of having to second guess our choices. Don't ask them what they were wearing...they were wearing *clothes*. Don't ask them if they'd been drinking...that's their *right*. We're done trying to fix this alone.
From the original post, perhaps only allowing one lawyer to represent all the accussed to ask questions of the victim
There have been several proposals such as sexual assault victims having their own legal counsel during a trial, or having a pre hearing to vet questions to the victim, or special sexual assault courts.
Yes .. but how would you structure the court system to resolve the problem.
Right off the bat I would say elevate the incarceration time We imprison criminals for decades if they rob a bank/material crimes But rape even when adjudicated results in slap on the wrist meanwhile the victims/survivors suffer a lifetime of trauma
We know now the psychopathy of rapists We know there is usually not just one victim but a trail of same It’s time we stop treating rapists as an oops & start incarcerating them as the deplorable humans they are
Educate against misogyny
Yes for sure. Judges and lawyers should be educated in this for sure. Some provinces do some of this.
Complete bullshit, these young men were wrong. End of story. There's no grey area here. Throw the fucking book at them and let all those who follow we won't tolerate sexual abuse! And most importantly your station in life will not shield you from the law and what is just!!
Every time these cases are on trial, women are considered the predator… crazy right? while the actual predator is the male who had sex with a drugged or victimized female- drugged at his hand-remember Cosby?!
Whether it is 5 accused or 1, the victim is always revictimized. Even when they go through all of this, the accused usually get off or get a slap on the wrist while the victim continues to be penalized. We wonder why women don't come forward.
Women are still victimized long after the physical and emotional trauma have been inflicted. This woman is carrying a massive burden of proof, while the perpetrators are defended under the protection of smug lawyers attacking the VICTIM. It’s disgusting 🤮 She is a warrior, so brave ❤️💪
Yes it is.
Our justice system is telling all women they can’t report any assaults or they will be victimized again. Has been going on forever and this is why most women will never report it. This woman is very brave.
Agree. I know a young woman who took on a ‘hockey’ team…..6 years - and 3 court cases - and she finally won. Unmentionable agony and pain, over YEARS, on her part. Bleachers filled with hockey team players. She didn’t want her family to see evidence so she sat alone. I am so grateful to her. Hero.❤️
The woman you describe was definitely not a victim. It seems she turned the tables on her attackers & was determined to face them in court. Remember that Gisèle Pelicot faced 51 of her abusers everyday for weeks. They became her victims as she sent them to prison.
Rapists are NEVER VICTIMS. Period.
No. They're reprehensible creatures who deserve far more punishment than they usually receive! * What I was trying to convey was, when face to face with their accuser they are diminished.
Sadly, they have their gang of followers and supporters behind them filling up the courtroom. Agree. The young woman I know had 5 that gang raped her. Only one got jail time - 4 years - was out in 15 months.😡
It is no better here in Aus. I have a problem with Judges who can't think through the terror of such an event. The first serious Girlfriend of my life had been raped by 5 teens. Her girl friends had set it up because she wouldn't allow boys in their group sex. I know how I felt hearing her story! 🤬
Something’s haven’t changed a bit. There are many of us that have not reported sexual crimes against us. For this reason. We go to the grave with these unresolved crimes and the ensuing trauma.
💯 Children as well.
Appalling. Murderers spend less time on the stand.
This is a second, this time judicial assault.
It is disgusting. Why women know they have no chance and don’t go to trial. Don’t see things changing.
Signal men they have permission to rape
Judicially assaulted! 😡
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Shame on the lawyers and shame on these entitled young men who clearly believe it was their right as "men" to do this to a woman under ANY circumstances.
There are entire guides they could use to avoid this: canliiconnects.org/en/commentar...
Imagine how many women have decided to never come forward about their own assaults based on this trial alone.
These gang rapes by hockey teams has been an known for decades & this trial will ensure it continues I am so disgusted
Trial by Twitter. Unless you sat in that courtroom for every single minute of testimony then I'm not interested in your opinion.
Notice how the accused don’t have their character questioned? It’s always “promising career ruined”. How about her mental health ruined? This “act like a porn star fantasy” is a male fantasy. Not a woman’s. *awaits all the “bros” to tell me they all know a woman that this was their fantasy.
Most sexual assaults go unreported, and they clearly want to keep it that way. God be with that poor woman.
Sickening.
Yes. Agreed. It feels like the 1980s
This initiative is a step in the right direction. moosehidecampaign.ca
An excellent video by Jackson Katz. I encourage everyone to watch it. www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTvS...
Thank you Will be sharing
We need to challenge the cult of hockey in this country. I once saw multiple members of the Edmonton Oil Kings push in front of an elderly woman waiting to use an escalator. My husband made them step aside while he motioned her forward. The players looked shocked, as did I when she apologized. 😡
Beyond awful
Imagine if the victim being abused by men was a 15-year old minor. Would this abhorrent multiple, prolonged cross-examination STILL be permitted? When does the abuse of victims cease? Here in Australia we had the trial for rape of the abuser of Brittany Higgins,
made all the more pubic and controversial because it was in a Minister's office at Parliament House, between two staffers. She was persuaded to rely upon workplace mediation in the Minister staff to resolve it. The case became known to the media. Finally her name was revealed. Then...
after no resolution charges were laid. The case went to trial. After prolonged and abusive cross-examination the jury went to consider the verdict. But one juror brought other materials into the jury room, a thing MOST illegal. The jury was dismissed, case declared for retrial....
but when it came to a retrial, the prosecutor decided that for Brittany's mental wellbeing she could not face further trauma. The case was abandoned. She had to try to get on with her life. But the alleged rapist could not stop at that. He began a civil case against her and a current affairs host...
over an interview prior to the case where she had discussed the events and her experience. This civil case placed her in risk of EVEN more cross-examination. Her mental health was very tenuous; she was in danger of self-harm. Happily she was able to testify by video. Eventually the case was...
dismissed. The judge found that on the balance of probabilities (the civil standard) the assailant HAD raped Brittany. He was out of pocket for some $$millions (well his sponsors, another media outlet were). He appealed but the judgement was upheld.
Brittany has since got on with her life, married and had a baby.
I guarantee she has lasting significant issues that impact her mental health and relationships.
This is also testimony Its hard Its real and this - is an account of her behaviour ! Under oath. So no- we are not telling innocent victims anything but here- what do you make of this testimony?
She was heavily drugged from the accounts I've read when the story first hit
And the players have described a close knit relationship on the team as no one person was a star. Would you want to be the snitch of the team? There’s no way to ensure there isn’t bias and loyalty affecting testimony.
It seems consent is on trial ...?
Went to lunch with a couple of women friends this week, and their comments shocked me. Such as "what did she expect".
Shame must trade sides.
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Also the concept of trauma is ignored. The trauma the victim suffered, continues to suffer & continues to be brought on her through this process means she literally can’t recall & speak of the exact details of it. That’s what trauma does. I hope they get a psychiatrist to testify on this concept.
They wouldn't allow this kind of interrogation for a murder suspect yet they do for a rape victim.
We had the chance to deal with the known behaviour/crimes that occur in the hockey world We had the chance for the many victims of aforementioned crimes to come forward Instead we turned it into a witch trial with the victim being traumatized How many Canadians know women with similar trauma?
I would say most women know women with these stories
Exactly my thoughts 60+yrs on this planet I know of 5 prosecutable cases - personal & professional experience. None saw a court Sexual assaults are far more prevalent then is recognized by law enforcement & courts Why because its being allowed to happen
Which leads me to ask what is the limit to this gang approach to court battles? If it was 30 accused men, would she be interrogated until she finally broke down after months of attacks from 30 legal teams tag-teaming their way in the courtroom. I'm sickened by this travesty of justice in Canada.
In theory they aren't allowed to ask questions a previous defense attorney has, but they can ask them as it pertains to each defendant. For example, if the first attorney asks, "where were you at...?" The other attorneys can't, or shouldn't. But each of them can ask "when did you meet my client?"
Pretty clear message to never assault someone one-on-one.
Yes, she would.
I don't know if it is possible, but I would like to see this trial appealed to the Supreme Court. The format was cruel, inhuman, and unjust and did not provide the accuser the slightest chance of a fair trial.
Thank you for recognizing this terrible abuse on top of tragedy.
It was absolutely horrible - hope there's a way for EM to sue the Canadian justice system. All it taught me was never take them to task for their horrific crimes.
It was the most irresponsible cross examination I have ever read and people are speaking about it internationally. It has embarrassed the Canadian legal system, deeply.
And minor detail: the crown brought charges, the victim did not .
They better not walk
Painful to watch. Can only imagine what she is going through. Horrifying.
Couple of defense attorneys have proven to be especially problematic, and “especially” is doing some heavy lifting here.
The judicial process itself should not be the main obstacle to obtaining justice
What I find especially galling is women lawyers knowingly revictimizing other women in defence of their rapist clients in these cases. Especially if they have the nerve to call themselves feminist. I don't care if it's their job, I really don't. Reminds me of Marie Henein & Jian Ghomeshi. Appalling.
This is appalling. No wonder women don’t want to report rape. Blame the victim, you asked for it, what were you wearing, are you a virgin, if not you’re a slut, do you have a boyfriend……….
