It spilled over into the general. Millions who did not vote cited that as a reason. I sure saw NO 'tactical endorsement' from ANY of them. Not one. And here we are - no fight for Palestinians at ALL. So how is this not a DSA "kill liberalism so we can take over" ploy?
I had a big fight with a very good friend over this too, p.s. She's sincerely and deeply passionate about Palestine. It hasn't abated. I also think, and she's probably not the only one, she's kind of made it her entire personality because of yep some discord sowing & displaced personal shit.
Those who fought for Palestine BEFORE all this still are passionate and filled with grief. But one suspects given the abrupt end of demonstrations that it either wasn't genuine and a way to kill liberalism or it's cowardly and fears Trump. I feel for her and Palestinians. REAL genocide now.
Like I'm saying to the other person I'm talking to from the other end right now, I...have a lot of feelings here, lol. I generally lean toward your POV more than not, I think; DSA is a mixed bag but I ragequit when the Chicago branch announced they were gonna try to sink the DNC, for a start.
That said, other person says Mamdani DID vote for her in the end, and since I keep hearing a lot of conflicting messages on to what degree he did or didn't endorse I'm gonna have to do my own proverbial research. I'm: pragmatic. Which is my and I suspect your main beef with the DSA/abstainers.
And I'm 3000 miles away as well. But, I like a LOT of what Mamdani's putting down, policy and campaign. He seems canny, and actually distanced himself a bit from the DSA just lately. And I used to live in NYC, so I'm kibitzing pretty hard. Anyways.
I'm from Buffalo. He's OK on issues. I've fought for them all one time or the next. They're Dem concerns. But it's too late to distance himself from DSA that is really hard core elitist, and very racist, anti diversity.
Yup. Pragmatic to the core. No grand idea is worth a thing if you can logically and humanely implement it.
elsewhere I was talking on someone else's feed who is VERY irate about what appears to be a DSA plank to the effect of "getting rid of USAID is Good, Actually, because U.S. imperialism," iow, the tankie faction won out in there somewhere. Someone came into the thread defending that take.
and I said basically the same thing, re her saying there were questions about whether getting rid of USAID "would" be worse, and like: lady. There's no "would." People are literally dying *right now* by the hundreds of thousands or more. If your ideology matters more than that, fuck your ideology.
SERIOUSLY. That's very well said!
🤦♀️
I was with them in the 70s as DSoc. That was their goal from the start. It's the old Thalmass view: burn it down, we, DSA, will fix it. Yeah - 85,000 members, ZERO accomplishments anywhere, and yet THEY will 'save us'. 🤦♀️
idk Thalmass, btw
Well, that's because I misspelled it. Ernst Thalmann, 1930s head of the German KPD, the communist party. He would not oppose Hitler and said, "After Hitler, us." Then Hitler rounded them all up. Didn't work out well. And yet, this is the DSA policy! Burn it down. We will fix it. Oh, sure.
ah gotcha.
The problem with typing fast is I'm not that good a typist!
no worries! I probably wouldn't have recognized the reference right away regardless, til I looked it up.
🙄 Someone explained it to me succinctly as, basically the good ones went over to the Dems to continue pushing from the left that way, of which I approve. Which leaves over a lot of tankies and other dead enders. That said, I've met some chill people still in it.
"I voted for her, canvassed for her, but I'm still really angry at her and the party" I mean, that's fine, an angry vote is still a vote, you know? But, he allowed as to how even our local branch is about half and half "support while pushing the Dems" "set them on fire."
Well, this "pushing Dems Left" leaves me cold. I did CA single payer for 6 years w a superb Dem Senator. Arnold vetoed it each time. But it worked, just couldn't pay for it well. Every "left" person trying it elsewhere has failed. Bern's sucked BIG time. So...who's "left"? Smarts matter more.
eh, I still like AOC. Bernie...yeah, I have thoughts and feelings, many of them less than charitable. I thought he brought something important to the Discourse as a rabble rouser back in 2010 or so. He's still doing the same spiel, he's stuck in 1934 or so, and he doesn't play well with others.
so, "pushing," however much credit you want to give St Bernard himself, I do think there was some Overton window shifting in how to frame shit in the general public that needed to happen. Policy, well, I don't think he's real good on the specifics. I wanted Warren. I LIKE wonks.