True, and that is impossible for me.

And yet, here you are!

If you have no soul or morals, it's soooo much easier to get a job in the Dem Party machine. Greens hire pretty much nobody in comparison. Is this a joke?

Well, Jill Stein for one doesn't need a "job." She's a retired medical doctor with both inherited wealth and wealth accrued from her lucrative profession. She can afford to be the useless distraction she is.

It's not useless to sacrifice your public image on the altar of giving the Democratic Party some metric of the votes they lose by moving to the right despite running against actual child raping nazis and klansmen. Personally not a huge Stein fan, but you people are being fucking psychopathic freaks.

In this environment, any 3rd party candidate is a vanity candidate willing to be a spoiler rather than working tooth and nail to fight the fascists and push to defend and expand civil liberties, build democracy, and build the infrastructure we need, and change policy on Israel.

It seems what they are saying is that a vote for the "green" party, whatever the fuck that is, is a protest vote against the other two.

What you call spoiling is our leverage to make the Democratic Party better. You're a right-wing nazisymp, you just want it to be blue nazism. No wonder we don't see eye to eye. You care about nothing, not Gazans, not immigrants, not the poor, not democracy, not the planet, so just shut the fuck up.

It's possible that promoting 3rd party candidates comes from kind an abstract approach to political organizing, but I maintain it is essentially performative and does not bear fruit in the short or long run. Most of the people grasp this in a 2-party system, thus the low turnout for Stein.

i mean ffs, hemorrhoids have a higher approval rating than the Democratic Party at this point. If you want this country to get better, you're really online yelling at the wrong people. The Left isn't getting more organized. The Dems aren't getting less corrupt. The GOP isn't getting less evil. wasf.

True, and both parties are corrupt right-wing and fascist and doom us to fascism and climate collapse and human extinction. That's the problem. And to solve it, you propose.... voting for the better one lol.

Do you have any discussion of the weaknesses of 3rd party campaigns? And of what constitutes a real campaign? Stein regularly gets ~5% or less of the vote. She's not building anything, which is obvious from an examination of the GrnParty lack of strategy or results. Great platform, tho, kinda.

You just throw your talking point insults at me because you can't imagine that there are viewpoints other than your own of any merit. This is rigid thinking. How has Jill Stein's candidacy made the anti-fascist movement stronger? How has it amplified the movement to defend immigrants or Gazans?

What you don't want to accept is that there can be no progress in the US as long as the Democratic Party exists as it currently does and as it will for the foreseeable future. It must be destroyed, because it's primary function is to block progress, while the GOP constantly devolves. It's a trap.

Check out the multi-state grassroots efforts to flip the states from red to blue. In this context (and the parties I mentioned) the goal is to rally the people as well as more progressive, more committed candidates against the red/maga/confederate/fascist tide.

Been there, done that, flipped districts, but the tide still rises.

Check out the Working Families Party. It fields no candidate for POTUS but does grassroots organizing to elect progressive Democrats and independents. Check out Leaders We Deserve which is a grassroots effort to elect younger, progressive candidates as part of building a broader anti-fascist mvmt.

oh come on, i know WFP, helped turned out some votes for them, this year actually. We won and what changed? This isn't the 90's. You have to get over voting. I'm sorry. Democracy in the US is over. Some of us tried to avoid this, but 2024 was way too late.

"We won and what changed?" This is a life-long struggle and we can't give up. I've been working for change my entire adult life and I'm not a spring chicken any more. If you can't fight for yourself, fight for the kids. Build something that they can stand on and use.

Well, if you have that kind of experience, it seems like you could be useful now, not the 90s. Don't give up. Fight on. There are always new folks coming online.

If Stein voters could be won over to organizing, (which is not performative or purity politics) that'd be different. Building a broad (not pure) movement is necessary and taking time out to "destroy the DP" is a waste of time and against the interests of the working masses of people of the U.S.

You act like Democrats organize lol. They hold power by the default of being the other party on the ballot and in the 2 party system. You're very unserious, it seems, but the future will answer all of your failures. No, there is no good way out. But many of us tried to fix the Dem Party. Did you?

Even the DP is not monolithic. Noticing this is important for developing good strategy. That's great that you tried to fix the DP. How do you assess those efforts? Seems to me that there are multiple things happening now that seem to open up opportunities.

You hold/ever hold a post in the Dem Party? You ever been in a room with these people, the party leadership and Congressmembers and the like scum? If so, then we can get deeper into the weeds, and if not then just big lol

I wish Stein and the Greens were better, but she's a metric for Dems to have some measure of voters they lose by being so right-wing. It's a sign. Once the Dem Party dies, then there can be progress, maybe—maybe. Until then, you get what you want. Let us know how that works out.

The point was, if you want to be an amoral grifter, the Democratic Party is sitting right there literally begging you to take their money for no morals. But the furthest of the two far right parties just does that better, for obvious reasons. You don't try to beat Lebron in basketball, you try golf.

We don't have a multi-party parliamentary system. We have a 2-party system. The GOP/Confederacy and the DP are both capitalist parties, but the ruling class, like the working class, is not monolithic, and under the DP working people have the room to organize unlike with trump. Stein = distraction.

The question is not what you want to "be" but do you want to fight alongside the masses of working people for a better future and do you grasp that in order to do that we need a movement for multi-racial democracy, not performative politics?

But yes, we have a 2 party system, which is why there has to be a breaking point in general elections when the "lesser evil" party gets too damn evil, otherwise we give evil free license. COUGH COUGH COUGH COUGH COUGH COUGH COUGH COUGH COUGH COUGH COUGH COUGH! Excuse me...

"Working people have the room to organize" fam, Obama had a national movement arrested, permanently decimating the most important aspect of the first amendment, to protect his Wall St. buddies. The first climate activist murdered on US soil by police was under Biden in a Dem City for a Dem Cop City

If you are unable to see the diff between even the most neoliberal DP presidents and the trump regime, well, I can't help you and possibly nobody can. Do you really have a Ph.D.? In what?

Yeah, the difference is my friends and fam were starved in concentration camps under Obama, so i know the difference is you simply don't give a fuck if someone with a D next to their name is POTUS.

The reality is, when Dems are in power, none of you people give a shit about anything. This isn't the first time we've done this. You comfy pseudo-liberals go right back go brunch, and that's apparently all you care about. I hope someone turns your mimosa into a molotov.

That's because greens aren't serious about winning elections.

And Democrats aren't serious about literally any fucking thing. Name it. You can't, but go ahead. Try.

No shit, lol. They lost* 2/3 of elections against this tangerine tyrant, and haven't put up much fight during his regime. But, they have affected more federal policy this year than greens have ever done.

If that's how you're going to judge this, then you can't complain about anything. Chinga la migra o financieran la migra?

Actually giving good advice, you decide to chastise them instead. Why ask the questions if you arent willing to address them? Because you never gave a shit.

How is that good advice? For example 🥳 on climate, Dems had a once-in-a-planetary-lifetime opportunity, and they decided to lock in what scientists have long predicted will be "globally catastrophic climate change." And that's the main legislative accomplishment you'll brag about.

Because my advice *isn't* just "vote for Dems!" It's "vote for candidates most closely aligned with your goals *that can actually win an election*. Included in that is advice on how to make your 3rd party more viable in a general election. But, greens don't want to do the work, so they'll just whine

Not my party, i just support them for the strategic electoral purpose as a left alternative. And Dems wage absolute anti-democratic war against the Greens, which is why they have to do so much work to get nowhere.

It doesn't matter if it's the Greens, specifically. But, if you want to change the way the US government works, you have to get elected. If you don't like the two current options, I'm with you, but if you don't recognize reality and, yes, the *work* it's going to take to actually *do something*...

It will seriously be difficult for Trump to increase total emissions over a Dem alternative. But you don't believe it because you don't care about the fate of life on Earth as we decide it so you have no clue the big details i'm even talking about. We clearly shouldn't be voting for the same people.

So, you are coming from a position that no matter what was done, it is just as bad. That sounds oddly familiar narrative of "both sides are the same" that the Republicans spout all the time. Conversely, the Green party hasnt been about global warming issues for at least 8 years.

Yes, do you want to talk about why, or are you not informed enough about climate to even have a superbasic policy discussion about it? The two big points come down to opportunity cost (time) and the limitations of global demand.

It actually won't be at all difficult for him to increase total emissions, because he's already rolling back what little progress/restrictions we did have, and he's planning worse. But, you don't actually give a shit because your smooth brain believes all the bullshit the greens have fed you.

You don't know anything about climate, the science or the politics, so this is a pointless conversation that gets to the core problem at hand: Nobody gives a shit if we go extinct. You care about your petty partisan politics so much, but not about all complex life on Earth burning to extinction.

But yeah, i never gave a shit. How many doors you knock? How many calls, how many voters you register? How many events and protests you organize? Let's compare who has proven they give a shit and who is just another partisan pawn wasting a perfectly good human brain. If that's what you need.

First of all, you dont know how politics works. Local politics is where you start a new party. Secondly, your mannerisms and messaging are clearly not of one in the USA, but regurgitated talking points. Where in Russia do you live?

How many elections have your efforts won? None. You may claim to give a shit, but you don't seem to actually be doing anything real to prove it.

Exactly!

That’s right. And I’m a Democrat. It’s awful. Fail.

Look, I agree (essentially). But how do does the Green Party gain any traction? The two-party system is a powerhouse.

They have to give a shit and spend time on it. They did originally, but now are just more of a joke.

Run locally and at the State level, as this will help familiarize people with their party ideals; support election reform like RCV; support major party candidates that are *closest* to them on issues. Stuff they *could* (and should) have been doing for the last few decades. Instead they...

Only come out during the POTUS election with their same, tired strategy of "POTUS or Nothing!" with the entirely predictable result of "Nothing" being precisely what they get.

And voting for the Democrats is equally useless long-term. They promise short-term status quo in exchange for long-term doom. Now is a period of the long-term they traded the last 30 years of political capital for.

But this was originally about climate. Which Democrats passed a big so-called climate bill and used it to lock in "2C warming by 2100" and then committed a genocide and told poor people to eat shit and so lost to Trump, making things even worse climate-wise, if that was even possible.

Yeah, here's the thing. If you can't win elections then you can't change policy. Yep, the Dems lost* to Trump - in no small part because of smooth brains like yours that fall for undeliverable promises and magical thinking. You have no solutions, only whining.

"Only whining" lol pp, how many doors have you knocked in your life? How many voters you call up or talk to on the street? How many people you register to vote? How many rallies and protests you organize? How many flyers you design and distribute?

And if you sell your soul to fascism and greed, then you can win elections and still not change policy, for the better at least. You call universal health care and not going extinct from climate change undeliverable promises and magical thinking? Then go extinct under fascism.

Stfu. No soul or morals goes straight to the Guardians Of Pedophile. And the greens are a scam. They are not even part of the global greens. They are a scam and Jill Stein is a fraud.