All of the people cheering on Luigi and saying that he did nothing wrong when he executed a premeditated murder make me really uncomfortable. Once you say that he’s justified, I can’t trust that you aren’t going to say political violence against more people is justified, and that’s a real bad path.
We’ve got a justice system for a reason, and it’s because it’s significantly better than the alternative of vigilantism
This administration wiped me and a whole community of innocent citizens out of legal recognition on day 1 and would kill us in cold blood if they get the chance. People are DYING right now waiting for the "justice" system to work. I find your argument less than compelling.
If we counted as people worth saving within this society, arguments from pundits like him might have some weight. As it is, this reads a lot like blaming us for screaming as we're fed into the wood chipper. 😓
because the justice system has failed us. When the system is being run/paid for BY THE PEOPLE THAT NEED TO BE SENTENCED- you will never find justice. viva la revolucion motherfucker
Okay what do you do when the justice system not only fails to punish but actively rewards the worst people in the nation
Really? Show me where the "justice system" would provide accountability for the millions of lives ruined by for-profit insurance companies. In fact, show me any time our government ensures justice for victims of billionaires. The justice system isn't coming to save us, we have to do it ourselves.
I think the problem with your take is that we are very much off the end of the sidewalk here and so things done to get us towards a democracy have to be looked at within that context. Yes, murder isn’t great, but pretending that this is some travesty and that all murders are equal is —/ meh.
My guy, a convicted rapist is president.
Yeah. Only it doesn't seem to be working at all.
It's perfectly legal to kill people by withholding medical care.
“we have a justice system for a reason” yeah that reason is to be a weapon against the poor and to extract unpaid labor
It's vigilantism by our owners. Using plea-bargains to enable 13th Amendment "except as" clause to supply convict slaves (for RENT, by private equity owned 3rd party entities). When this first happened to a white boy over a century ago, there was a fuss. Fugitive from a Chain Gang came decades later
that system didn't stop Brian Thompson. You know what did?
And does this system deliver justice for the poor? Or primarily only for the rich?
Do you still have a justice system?
How is that court system working right now?
you do not have a functioning justice system and never have
Word, it's like people have just decided after the past 8 years of no context that the justice system is irretrievably unable to either remedy or protect us from the existential threat this nation now faces. And for some reason they are becoming more inured to violence. How strange.
Ah yes, the justice system which let a felon go Scott free after he and his mob mounted an insurrection, is significantly better!
One side is already rewarding their vigilantes. We’re through the looking glass.
we don’t have a justice system, we have a legal system there’s an endless list of examples how the state wields an iron fist over the poor/marginalized and velvet glove service for the wealthy/privileged if we had a justice system, brian thompson would not have stayed in a position to keep killing
Cooper has definitely confused whatever "Justice System" shitlibs cherish, with a system that delivers anything resembling justice
if the rich get fines while the poor get prison, that isn’t a justice system
the poor get executed in the street, if I recall correctly. and 12 year olds in playgrounds, if I recall correctly. the justice system didn't get around to helping fix that, if I recall correctly.
Yes. Our justice system is very good at doling out consequences for the wealthy and powerful…
If it was significantly better than vigilantism, we wouldn't have vigilantism
No. It's really, really not.
You clearly are in a privileged position and can't/refuse to see how the justice system only exists to protect elites. Millions are left on their own while the rich and powerful get away with rape, theft and treason.
Is it, though? Is it for everyone? Or just for the people you think matter?
your justice system was ignored by your president while pardoning people who should've been tried for treason
When is the last time our justice system put a CEO in jail for the harm their company inflicted on members of the public who are just trying their best to survive?
You have a justice system? Since when?
Lol we have a justice system?
Poe's Law is a motherfucker.
We have a justice system?
Tell me more about this Justice system you speak of....
The justice system does not work against billionaires. It never has, and it never will.
And if it sought justice, maybe it'd be worthwhile. Unfortunately it doesn't and wasn't built to.
Maybe if that justice system didn't let the wealthy get off 9 times out of 10, maybe if medical insurance CEOs were getting thrown in jail for their crimes against humanity, maybe then people wouldn't have cheered for this
AND HOW IS THAT WORKING OUT? A "justice system" isn't working when medical bankruptcy, student loans, inequality and open genocide are the only tangible outputs of your system
What is your evidence for this wild and baseless assertion?
Vigilantism tends to happen when the perpetrator knows, or feels, there is no legal solution to their problem. Unfortunately evil insurance companies operate with impunity.
No, we do not. Not for the kind of murder that Brian Thompson did, because he did it with a spreadsheet instead of a pistol. No less premeditated, no less intentional and for profit.No system exists to hold him accountable.
lol
You greatly overrate the effectiveness of the justice system's demonstrated ability to deliver just outcomes for the vulnerable. It is inherently flawed when money can buy you more effective representation.
Consider for the moment that the reason everyone is ok with this is because the justice system has repeatedly failed
It’s not working though, is it?
How was the justice system addressing the tens of thousands of people Brian Thompson killed?
We do not have a justice system, we have a legal system. A system where it's ok to kill people by the tens of thousands by denying them the healthcare they need and make billions of dollars doing so.
the justice system has sent hundreds of thousands of innocent people to prison because the justice system is interested in keeping the prison industrial complex going
Our justice system is currently being dismantled by a megalomaniacal stooge under Putin’s thumb so yeah let’s count on trumps SCOTUS and Elon to do the right thing. 🙄
The leader of your justice system has promised in writing to persecute his political enemies, and if you're not willing to wrangle with that, you're not actually taking a serious look at the problem.
Do we?
Justice system: Lets monsters like Brian Thompson kill thousands to enrich himself because it's legal Luigi: Doesn't Point to Luigi on this one I'm afraid
I don’t disagree that it’s suboptimal but I think that really sidesteps the point that these companies kill people at a gargantuan scale for profit and will never be held accountable by that justice system.
Again that's vigilantism, and once you're down that path you can excuse anything. Like healthcare workers, is it ok to murder those in the street? Oil workers, also ok to murder? I was told I excuse genocide for minor disagreements on the Internet, cool to shoot me?
Slippery slope fallacy.
"There's no living with a killing. There's no going back from it. Right or wrong, it's a brand. A brand that sticks. There's no going back."
That is called a slippery slope fallacy.
That’s not really the point I was making at all and also I wasn’t talking to you.
He’s right, though
But I wasn’t advocating for violence, I’m saying that the justice system as constituted does not account for massive amounts of violence in the system and thus can’t be considered a complete or functioning system to have faith in. You’re sidestepping that to say “you wanna kill nurses!?”
Your initial point is that we have rules and systems for a reason and I think an unexamined source of your anxiety might be the realization that we actually don’t any more.
Oh fuck off
aaaaaaaand there it is
braindead loser throws a tanty at his nonsensical argument being correctly deconstructed. become a hermit, this is embarrassing
This is the moment where you lost whatever point you were trying to make.
Yessss yesss! I'm betting It's rattling around that noggin of yours now, Coop, and I'm betting it feels really bad to feel this kind of dissonance, right? Maybe examine it a bit, instead of giving in to your standard lib impulse, to let the "just-world"-fallacy take the wheel.
that's a fantastic response to being called out on your bullshit well done
Just be clearer about your premise that only rich lives matter
Yes, because that’s the point I was making and you’re off talking about a completely different thing
If you think there’s a point of injustice where it’s acceptable to take the law into your own hands you’re opening up a whole bunch of possibilities that are very bad. That’s the problem.
I love this "law = justice", analysis. It allows you to totally reject a complicated world where the writers of law don't always have everyone's interest at heart, and substitute it for an uncomplicated world, where justice can always be found within the lines set by the ruling-class. Must be nice
If you think it is never okay to take the law into your own hands then we know from history that resulted in a lot of insanely evil things happening and you know this, so why are you arguing from a moral absolutist position?
He blocked me for liking this by the way lmao
Oskar Schlindler took the law into his own hands & saved a lot of people from Nazi death camps Just because something is legal doesn't mean it is right or moral or good Every social justice cause that has won rights (women, Black people, etc) included violating the laws that withheld those rights
But 1. I don't think assigning all political violence the same moral character makes any sense (not that this is good but it's morally distinct from say blowing up an abortion clinic) 2. If the justice system simply doesn't hold those companies accountable is that meaningfully "better"?
And like others have said this is the exact same logic as behind the murder of George Tiller
That's short sighted and Obtuse
Not when there’s two separate systems and neither work.
we got a justice system to enforce the will of the political & capital classes, which is why its so frequently & so easily turned towards visibly unjust ends
When's it going to do something about the insurance execs who unjustly deny coverage and murder thousands?
what if the “justice” system is filled with corrupt ghouls appointed by an autocrat to legitimize his crusade against the American people?
4,243 days ago, I would have laughed in your face after you said this. Today? Today I'm genuinely amazed anyone still thinks this. What an embarrassing lack of awareness.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
yeah how's that treating federal employees currently
Vigilantism can't enact structural change the way our justice system can. The fact that the justice system hasn't yet fully met its promises is not a reason to abandon it.
We’ve got a “justice system” that only punishes the poor and minorities. This leads to vigilante justice to be more and more acceptable especially when the person killed is literally a mass murderer worse than Osama Bin Laden
Also we have all those amazing superheroes to help us. They're about as effective & real as the "justice" system that gets you rock hard
Do we? No, seriously, do we? No, seriously, look at the White House and ask yourself if we have a justice system that will actually punish the rich and powerful for their crimes? Ask yourself if our justice system even considers their actions crimes.
It's not that vigilantism is good, it's that there is no alternative and there hasn't been for some time.
I'll agree with you. But when was the justice system ever going to do anything about a CEO ending and otherwise destroying thousands of lives to make the richest ever so slightly richer? That's not justice. So if there's no justice within the system what's the alternative? Oh, you answered already.
"We"? What's your total comp for 2024? Must be well into eight figures if you think "we" have a justice system. Try working for a living and getting justice for theft or assault, much less the impersonal assembly line death dealt by the insurance industry.
This is pretty much the thesis of GHETTOLAND (which I know people have justifiably mixed feelings about) — the idea really stuck with me that areas w/high gang involvement are that way in part bc homicide clearance rates there suck & humans will turn to vigilantism when the law won't intercede.
I agree that vigilante violence is Not Great. But “deny, delay, defend” is how insurers prevent people from getting the benefit of the legal system as non-violent conflict resolution! How are non-rich people supposed to use the legal system to get justice (including healthcare)? Per geoffrey:
Meanwhile you're calling this guy a murderer before he's even had a trial. Great job Batman.
lol you think the justice system produces justice.
But when the justice system doesn’t work for ordinary people, only for the very wealthy, then do we really have a justice system?
The justice system only punishes the poor, so it is not a justice system at all. It is legalised bribery and corruption of the highest order, designed to promote one thing: the wealth of the few. The sooner everyone wakes up and realises this, the better.
Yes, our notoriously fair and just system of laws! You are so smart!
Better for whom. I've never seen a healthcare CEO on trial for killing someone because their insurance claim was denied and they didn't get the care that would've saved their life, have you? That is also murder. Social murder. And people just hand wave it away every single day.
A justice system that is being dismantled with increasing ferocity every day over the past month. People will only stomach so much inequality, cronyism, and preferential treatment before the alternative is all that's left.
The justice system doesn't even see psychopathic profit-seeking behaviour as criminal. We already have vigilantism - it merely wears a suit and tie, and counts its deaths in quarterly earnings reports.
I wish I was this dumb
Do people not realize how crazy this makes you sound to anyone who isn’t already in your group?
Do you not realize this a troll account? If this was a recognizable account I would share your concern.
How sane overall is America anymore? I’m sitting here in Canada, waiting to be “annexed”. If the majority of people are telling us the Rubicon’s been crossed maybe we should take that seriously?
Just gonna put out there that the opinion in the screencap is the motivating ethos behind a huge chunk of pop culture movies and TV shows, so it might not seem so crazy to a lot of Americans.
Exactly
I take is seriously! Very seriously
By “walk the path” he means post things on the internet. Anonymously. These clowns aren’t actually buying guns and killing CEOs.
This is completely missing the point. Yes “these clowns” aren’t doing it… but Luigi did. Others will in the future if societal conditions don’t change. The point was that the seal has already been broken.
He said, “It’s time to walk the path.” If he had said that societal conditions need to change or others will follow Luigi, I wouldn’t have disagreed. Because he would have said something different. But, yes, if you change what he said, then my response to that different thing misses the point.
Dollars to donuts that dude has never lived anywhere with recent memory of vigilante violence.
Speaking as someone who has been at risk of extrajudicial violence once or twice, 1) you really do not want to go down this path willingly, and 2) guys like this are going to be worse than useless in the event of it becoming a thing (they can be easily duped into targeting their own allies)
I believe (man, I HOPE) that if a man were shot to death in cold blood in front of them, with all the bleeding and choking and terror that means, that they would realize some things. I hope.
They would, and it would turn them into even bigger dipshit reactionaries.
yeah the things that would make them realise are not good things that we want people to believe (cf. the summer of love hippies all turning into archconservative boomers full of facebook uncle shit, except much worse) want the world to stay soft because hard worlds make people worse, not better
It's less that, I think, and more 'these people (like a lot of hippies) are *already* reactionaries, this would just bring that out in them more fully'. It's not a 'turning into' so much as it is the inevitable arc.
yeah. i think this is an exigencies-of-fate kind of thing where people who have Those Tendencies might turn out to be a decent person but if they saw someone murdered in front of them they Definitely, Absolutely Would Not but we're on the same page
Dollars to donuts that dude doesn't live in a red state surrounded by maga gun nuts either.
Weirdly, the overlap between what you said and what I said is very high!
violence isn't usually the answer but also the justice system only usually works (and less so every day). violence is a possibility precisely because there are points of failure and the contradictions of our society must resolve, some how. pretending otherwise will leave you unprepared to help.
"Our group"? It's not as if "people who have had their lives broken by health insurance companies" is an exclusive club you empathy-impaired twat.
I was actually pretty shocked to hear just how many people "outside my group" (IE pretty normal, not terminally online folks) were actually like "no no that was totally understandable" You might be the one that's a little silo'd off here
Do you realize how crazy you sound having not woken up to the situation at hand ?
He's not wrong. I understand the belief isn't actually rational, but the problem isn't that the CEO was guilty. It's that denying coverage causing the death and dismemberment of US citizens is completely legal and there's no realistic way to change that.
*looks at Kyle Rittenhouse* huh
Do you still maintain an account on X? Because those guys won't upset you this much
The people who think it's crazy are an incredibly privileged minority.
Luigi stopped a mass murderer. No need to make a lie more complicated than the truth.
And another stepped right into his shoes, and their business continues as usual. I get the outrage and the sheer weariness, the wrongdoings of these companies and their C-suites are hideous. But normalising political violence comes at the cost that it encourages the gun-nut right. Rabies pandemic.
They're shook. They're scared. More and maybe the survivors can be scared into making more moral decisions
That's a gamble. High stakes. 😐
What's to lose?
Like I said above, "...normalising political violence comes at the cost that it encourages the gun-nut right. Rabies pandemic." That is, an open-ended political violence free-for-all with no guarantee that MAGA wouldn't come off best out of it. I'm not an accelerationist, myself.
...do you, do you truly believe, political violence isn't already completely normalized?
No, it's not yet *completely* normalised, nor would most reasonable people want it to be. If you want to fast-forward to "The Purge"or "Civil War" that's on you.
You're literally doing the meme. knowyourmeme.com/memes/orphan...
I think you missed the part where the right jumped to his defense as well and actually ratioed popular voices on the right. It was the most aligned weve been in decades.
How does leather taste?
Yeah, it's pretty bad. We shouldn't scare ourselves into thinking it's bigger than it is, but the weird in-group conviction that EVERYBODY feels this (completely insane and morally bankrupt) way is...disconcerting.
Trump is coarsening all of us.
Heh. I'm happy to blame that guy for ANYTHING. (The Russo-Japanese War. Cholera. Airline peanuts.) And he sure loves exactly the same kind of violent revenge fantasy! But sadly it's bigger than him, even. People have this in them, always. We're just not supposed to LIKE it.
It is innate for sure but even the "restrained" Trump of 2016 talked about beating the hell out of people as an applause line. We're all susceptible to the environment.
He definitely did. And yeah, it was deeply shocking at the time and for me that's when the quiet dread started mounting because somehow no one treated it as utterly disqualifying for public life. He got more popular.
That’s definitely one of the big moments where I looked around and was like “oh, the only people who care that he said that are me and some of my pals online.”
You libs are so boring, politics should be like wrasslin'.
Why I believe you just re-invented Trump from first principles! But yes.
That and SPECIFICALLY the "Muslim ban" when it started appearing in speeches. I was like "that's pretty much the most shocking, beyond-the-pale thing an American political figure has said while I've been alive". It was like a month before voting started. His polls kept climbing.
That was far worse but it at least got a reaction from the press and people were aware of it. But yeah, that was brain breaking in other ways, seeing the lurch from the soft racism that had been standard in right wing politics into something much more aggressive
Yes and then Roberts was cowed into not rejecting it outright.
I'm not a prophet or anything. (I still thought for sure he'd lose, like everybody else!) But you knew something was BADLY off the rails then.
My theory of causality is that GWB made them think that government was against them. It may be because I was 17 when Bush v. Gore was decided and it shattered my psyche though.
Oof, brutal. I was a LITTLE older for the Florida 2000 fiasco. I already knew about winning AND losing. It was still a very very bad moment, because it was just such a perfect storm of awfulness. Everything that could possibly go wrong did. (And, well, here we are!)
I think there's something to the idea that Trump brings out the worst in people, even the ones who oppose him.
I was able to extend grace and appreciate the conflicting feelings at first. I understand that it was first-and-foremost a meme and "valorizing outlaws as folk heroes" is older than dirt. Whatever. People blowing off steam.
But now? For the people still on about it, it's not a meme! They literally just think this is TRUE. That he's a good guy who did a good thing, and that is a right and proper way to do politics. This is...fucking nuts.
Removing an evil person from the world and stopping him from doing more evil is a good thing
Boy I mean there's an argument there sure but I'm just gonna suggest that maybe these questions have been pretty thoroughly talked over for literal millennia so we're not gonna break any new ground here 🙃
I'm glad Luigi broke new ground
I guess I'll just VERY gently say that the use of a word like "removing" there sends a little chill down the spine for anyone who's ever taken the time to learn about these things tend to go.
If it helps, I think political violence should only be used against justified targets. It is good to do so It is bad when political violence is used against people that don't deserve it (This is very simple stuff but you seem to need the reassurance I'm not calling for an indiscriminate bloodbath)
Who actually decides who’s a “justified target”? You? Me? Some random authority? And why should anyone trust that? Every side in history thought their targets were justified, right up until they themselves became the targets.
Okay
You are morally bankrupt. You'd be hand wringing and crying about us discussing how to kill Hitler. Actual toddler level lack of understanding
This seems like an unbridgeable gulf. There's hardly anything I can say, other than point to this kind of rhetoric and say "SEE? SEE WHAT I MEAN?" and hope other people see it. I mean, Hitler stuff is old hat on the internet but that doesn't mean it still isn't obscene.
bsky.app/profile/vaga...
I care more about myself, my family and my community than a bunch of fucking republican ghouls because I am normal.
Only because by a simple roll of the dice, you too can experience the utter inhumanity that is US private health insurance. And you don't get treated badly once and think this way. It's consistent abuse and indifference over years to you and your loved ones.
A lot going on there but "only because" is a good place to start lol. But even granted the premise that either live this themselves or (what I'm talking about) have absorbed this folk narrative as absolute truth -- there is no leap from there to "this is good. this is how things should be."
If you'd like to tell me that people AREN'T saying that, and dead-ass saying it with no irony whatsoever, well, I disagree. They mean it. Otherwise normal people are making a point online of being cheerfully pro-murder. That's contemptible, period.
The fact that others have created a bad path does not obligate me to walk it. It obligates me to create a better one.
This deserves to be a motto somewhere
Seems like totally rational logic to me.
The second post is internet hardman territory, but the first is closer to what pretty much everyone I’ve spoken to about this irl has expressed: some version of “not great, but fuck ‘em I guess.”
Well, sort of, yeah. But the thing is that they're using that first (defensible but dubious) claim as a way to get to the second one which just admits that it's all about "wallowing in violent fantasy".
Yeah I mean that’s definitely a big part of it for a lot of posters, but I’ve also heard completely offline senior citizens say they wish Luigi could have taken out more bad guys, so I just don’t think the sentiment sounds crazy to as many people as it used to.
oh heavens no. People love bloodthirst and lynching the lord of the manor, etc. Hell, sit in any break room full of white people and they'll enthusiastically endorse the death penalty for shoplifting and ask whether you knew they let them have TELEVISION in prison? (It's not supposed to be fun!)
It's just...if we think of ourselves as decent, as people who try to be on the right side, we know we're not SUPPOSED to think and say those things. These people have persuaded themselves they can do that AND be the decent ones! That NEVER ends well.
When there is an existential threat to your life and way of existence you absolutely can be both decent and violent towards it. The disconnect is that I don’t think some of you understand how much these billionaires are an existential threat. Hopefully you’re learning fast.
Well, we ARE learning things, yes. As you can see from this thread. But the broad strokes we knew already, sadly. Creating folk heroes and demonizing folk villains isn't a novel phenomenon.
Regular people DIDN'T use to say shit like "existential threat" or "POTUS" all the time with a straight face, but that's just what the internet did to us. Big exciting theories of how the world works? That have thrilling and virtuous violence in them? That's old old shit.
Do you realize how utterly out of touch with reality you sound? The justice system is currently being fucking strip mined. Grow up.
If this moment makes you think that person sounds crazy — as opposed to making you sound like a vacillating boot licker who is afraid of real change — you’re not gonna love the next four years.
What other word is there to describe the deliberate denial of healthcare in pursuit of private profit, than violence? Just because you see the violence in shooting a CEO but not in the CEO's destructive profit-seeking acts does not mean it does not take place.
so do you read the news about musk, Trump and the sycophant fascist core gutting the United States and establishing an unchecked monarchal executive and think “gosh, I hope they listen to a sternly worded letter”?
And how crazy it makes you sound to the people in your group????
Do you not realize how feckless & naive you sound to anyone who isn't in your group?
and by "your group," you of course refer to the Yellow Signalling NPC Tribe, which was so brilliantly defined by Scott Alexander in his seminal "Actually" essay
if i can send an honest signal for a moment, i think lots of americans across the political spectrum would agree with this sentiment. a lot of the public has lost faith in the system. i don't know what specific group you had in mind when you said "your group," but i think you'd be wrong regardless.
You sound insufferable.
"justice"
I think what galvanized people was the fact that between the corrupt Supreme Court and Congress, we no longer *have* an effective justice system. Vigilantism is the logical conclusion of justice denied. People celebrate not as an endorsement but that SOMETHING finally is being done.
I mean there’s so many things wrong with what you’re saying, I want to start with the 2nd amendment. 2A allegedly gives us the right to own firearms as citizens and many places with open carry, but, if a cop sees you holding a gun, or even thinks you’re holding a gun- he can legally shoot you dead.
So, do we actually have the right to own and carry firearms if the cops can legally kill us for just doing that? And is that really “justice”? And did you know that when women defend themselves against male attackers- they are more likely to end up in jail themselves? Does that sound like justice?
In many states in the US police officers can legally rape people in their custody. The laws refer to “having sex” obviously, but how the fuck is someone in police custody going to realistically say no to that cop? And you call this a fucking justice system?
This isn’t even getting into the racial disparities, the obvious difference between being poor and being rich under this “justice” system, and so, so much more. What I really wanted to convey though is simply that it was always a lie, this system benefits specific people, not everyone.
“The purpose of a system is what it does” does our “justice” system keep us safe? Does it lower crime rates? Does it stop the rich from exploiting the poor? Or, does it lock up a disproportionate amount of our citizens and force them to do unpaid labor for corporations?
the justice system is political violence. all you are defending is ruling class's right to a monopoly on violence.
Who's the "we" here? It's not the people getting claims denied. It's not the people getting locked up for nonviolent shit and then rented out to Starbucks and Bloomberg. It's not the people getting evicted because their landlord doubled rent. The ruling class has a system for applying violence.
We do?!
how’s that justice system working out these days
Except the elites have been tearing down the legitimacy of that very system for at least 30, realistically 50 years. So not really sure how anyone can look at the current “rule of law” and call it sustainable. Surely not in its current form.
a big part of that “justice system” is the presumption of innocence but i guess to you he is already guilty.
Do you think the justice system is not political violence?
I want a fair justice system. I don't think we have one. It was marginal before, but we've tipped over into a place I don't think I could in good faith serve on a jury, nor do I think anyone should. I'm not crazy, I just expect a base level of function & accountability & I'm not seeing it
do we? the same one that's stuffed full of fash judges? the same one that allowed a state to argue that they should be able to execute a man they knew was innocent because they still felt like it and the court agreed?
the justice system in practice is literally just political violence against the poor and marginalized and in defense of the baby mulching machine we call capitalism. you are part of the problem.
lmao
Didn't Daniel Penny get a job at Andreessen Horowitz literally just for murdering a homeless man?
Maybe .. You also have a 2nd amendment against a tyrannical government! Do men have the right to shoot ?
I’ve seen a couple of accounts doing this and I blocked them.
Sorry about your fee fee's, child.
allegedly
Can we agree that killing people using rules and restriction of access to healthcare is equally bad then?
My sentiments exactly. I’ve blocked multiple people here for hints of justification of political violence.
The Jews obeyed the law and 6 million ended up in the Camps. At what point is corporate capture - part of a tyrannical government? But if you MAGA that went over your head!
I’m a liberal, NOT a MAGA, who objects to political violence by any side.
Im a liberal that doesn’t object to political violence! Witness Nazi Germany! And when our social contract is under attack by corporations in 🇨🇦- we will do whatever! In addition when they attempted to bring ´for profit’ hc to Canada. The fury made the Terrified! They work for us!
Thats good! Is there appropriate time for the 2nd amendment against a tyrannical government?
Just did, took me awhile
It will happen whether you like it or not. Trumps 350,000 lies should have been enough! When they do not represent the prople, your 2nd Amendment was the remedy in tue Constitution. Or was it just to shoot kids?? SM PEng. MMEng. MBA
Thank you. People wîll not put up with gouging here. As far as I am concerned the RePublican Representatives no longer are straight with the American people. I think there should be wave after wave of violence against them.Until they are listening and answering to the people!
That’s a good question, one that I struggle with, being someone who loathes both violence and tyranny. My objection is really to people making off-hand kinds of incendiary comments about violence, or making a murderer into a pop hero. Taking the law into one’s own hands is very serious!
I’m in healthcare and get why people hate the insurance industry, the criticisms are entirely valid. But cheering on a murder because you don’t like the company they work for takes you to some very bad places very quickly, especially dangerous in a country that’s armed to the teeth.
Lots of innocent people can end up getting killed that way. Armed resistance to an invader, eg Ukraine, or the Jewish partisans during WWII—that’s totally justified IMHO, but even that will inevitably produce collateral damage. My point is these are very serious decisions, not pop memes.
You can answer!
I don't think your trust is a priority.
The Jan 6 insurgents all got pardoned. Look around you: we’re already in that world.
And not by our own choice. We tried to prevent it. The other side wanted this.
It just never occurred to them that the leopards might, etc.
A thing orbiting my mind these days, sadly, is that while I'm opposed to violence in the streets, I'm sadly mindful that 20th Century progressive reforms didn't happen because tycoons' hearts grew three sizes; the tycoons became afraid of anarchists and revolutionaries blowing up things.
Agreed. But is it avoidable- given the current circumstances?
Not only was it not wrong, it was a net positive for humanity
Luigi did us a favor by taking out some trash.
An opinion I'm sure you share with millions of other mediocre white liberal sophisticates for whom struggle and oppression are purely hypothetical exercises.
Support a CEO serial killer. Kkkapitilisims you betcha!!! Seriously, bad take.
Not unrelated, but with the military purges, Patel, Gabbard etc. people here should really start assuming that those advocating violence are informants or narcs.
wuss
allegedly
Hi Cooper, have you tried fucking off about it?
Agree. I don’t condone what he did even if am sympathetic to why he did what he (is alleged) to have done.
Actually it’s a great path and John Brown showed us in the 1800s that sometimes you just gotta kill the fucking oppressors.
Hasn't been proven guilty yet. Lots of questions about the supposed "evidence." Meanwhile the CEO made millions indirectly killing tons of people and the laws are built around letting his ilk do that.
Waaah, a billionaire got shot, waaaah.
Social murder doesn't exist in OP's world
What do you vote for?
Still waiting for the answer
Yeah, wouldn't it be terrible if someone were calling for violence against trans people, ethnic minorities, refugees, and disabled people. Maybe the sort of people who throw out nazi salutes and ignore courts? But the poor C.E.O.
Considering I already saw people use Luigi as an argument to go after game studios made me quite weary. A game having a few cosmetic microtransactions and some bad patches isn't a reason to call for the murder of their leadership...
so true, there is a lot more people for which political violence would be justified
I was beginning to forget about Luigi, but he's radicalized me all over again. Now I remember why I've been saving all these glass bottles!
hm yeah maybe America should have remained a colony. The pursuit of independence wound up justifying too much political violence, and that's a bad path
god, shut the fuck up
Twice in the back half of '24, we had potential school shooters taking a higher profile target in Trump and Thompson. This was the road that 'thoughts and prayers' has led us, that the mentally ill now need bigger targets to get themselves famous. And with the Mangione fan club...
Cry about it bootlicker They are killing us every fucking day
Allegedly. No conclusive proof that it's him in those pictures.
buddy, where were you when people cheered George Zimmerman, or Kyle Rittenhouse, or Daniel Penny? but now suddenly a vigilante does something good and you’re here clutching those pearls!
Get off social media. You can’t handle it.
i’ll post wherever i want, deal with it!
guy melting down if you don't cry for the rich: you can't handle social media!!!
Suspend habeas corpus for guys who use the name Lumsden
how does a ceo's cock taste? you seem like the most trustworthy source for this question (and zero others)
I don't know that people are saying he did nothing wrong, but they certainly have an understanding of karma and karmic retribution taught to them in just about every revenge movie ever made.
I'm saying it
I thought we had finally moved past the wave of milquetoast liberals needing to spout their unaware opinions on justified actions against the oppressing class. And don’t try to say there’s justice; if there were, the CEO and his parasitic ilk would’ve received adequate treatment by now.
Luigi Mangione didn't murder anyone. He has been accused of murder, but no trial has taken place and what evidence has been shown to the public is at best spurious.
Personally I think the blatant sadistic glee on display is also a bit of a red flag.
Not advocating for it, but at a certain point a line is crossed and nonviolence can no longer deescalate or redraw the line in a just way. We’ve all got our own lines but it’s a paradox if your line is ‘get in the boxcar’ bc it’s too late to act, so what good was the line that got you there?
I’ll add that the GOP (and capital) understand that their opposition tend toward non-violence and norms and they’re fully exploiting that. They’re coaxing us to violence - they want that - but real talk: even if left/liberals wanted to oblige them, we’re not even close to ready to deal it out.
With all due respect, shut the fuck up
"If you support punching Nazis how can I be sure you won't punch me?" Brainworm take.
Or maybe the people that are worried they are next see a lit in common with themselves and the Nazis... Scratch a liberal or some such thing
the thought had occurred to me tbh, but I was trying to give the benefit of the doubt. god only knows why!
I think its fair to give the benefit of the doubt. I doubt this dude even realizes what he's missing. But the whole banality of evil thing is what allowed the horrors of the nazis. It was people that didn't speak up about injustice or critically think that allowed it to happen.
it is the only way to seek justice in our current political / judicial structure
Call it political violence if you must, but it’s just playing the game by the same rules the state & protected capital class play against the rest of us
does insurance companies executing people en masse for profits not count as political violence? completely unserious position
Slippery slope arguments aren’t real strong, we’ve been hearing them about gay marriage and trans people for decades. Why does this slippery slope argument hold up in the face of our nations use of the death penalty or Geneva convention, where we abide by rules of engagement and death?
Maybe there are new rules.
Shut up dweeb
The system has failed. The rich destroy lives and get away with it because all it takes is deep pockets. Luigi is a damn hero. Trump, Musk, Bezos, Zuckerburg and many more deserve the same fate. want to tow the line while the rich eat us all alive? Sit down.
Oh god, just imagine if we were on a bad path. Boy that’d be something huh.
Fully agree, but there are other reasons to be uncomfortable about this too: bsky.app/profile/dell...
Your unbelievably smug ignorance is why everybody finds you tedious and unlikable.
nothing is gonna change until the rich get afraid. really afraid. that's how we got the New Deal after the Great Depression.
Since Jan 6 is a strategy that works, maybe it should be used on Fox News (50k rushing into their HQ in Manhattan and shitting/pissing in the editing hardware, building gallows, zipties on air talent, etc. Remind you, all this has been approved as appropriate political discourse as of Jan 20, 2025.
don't kid yourself, that place is a fortress, it's surrounded by bollards, 3" bombproof glass, armed security, and there's 35,000 NYC cops ready to defend it... but 50k protesters out front in midtown Manhattan so the talent can't get lunch would be a good start and a wake up call for them.
is that how new deal happened?
Yup. Roving bands of unemployed and homeless, they HAD to do something.
Political violence is already normalised, mate. Difference is you’re talking about unsanctioned political violence, but not sanctioned political violence.
Once you remove morality from the equation and see it as cause-and-effect, it becomes infinitely simpler.
Obviously, no one's cheering for murder just because it's murder—but equating Mangione's action against ACTUAL THREATS with random "political violence" is the worst kind of lazy moral equivalence.
You don't have to endorse Mangione's methods to understand that moralism divorced from context is useless. Real threats have real consequences, and pretending otherwise is just enabling the oppressors.
TL;DR -- STFU, bootlicker.
Well, he hasnt been found guilty, and there are 3 documentaries out already portraying him as a guilty man. That, to me, makes me stand up and say, "What's going on here?"
Allegedly. I’m not in the “free Luigi!” club by any means, but let’s not determine his guilt or innocence, on this app.
Co-sign this. Society works because we take some things off the table for individuals to decide on their own. Murder is one. We should also be able to make denying people healthcare one, too, as well as gross wealth inequality.
The healthcare system in America *is political violence.*
If someone took out hitler or a dictator than we can call them a hero
Agree There’s one thing to not like the healthcare system -this doesn’t fix anything But the people that are cheering on a murderer are truly insane Especially the ones that think he’s so good looking I really question these people’s morals and values
Be a hero Take out a dictator
Luigi is no hero
I agree that billionaires have taken over. And corporations suck that are not helping people Luigi comes from a rich Republican entitled family He didn’t do this for some political statement He was on drugs and he was mad because he had a bad back surgery. Didn’t fix uhc policy
Are you a defender of the 2nd amendment when we have lost 10,000 kids in school ?
See: Bill Burr
I think it’s a terrible idea. But I do think it’s sort of an unavoidable consequence of folks on the right who have come to only fear violence from the further right.
When do we stop peaceful protests? When they start seizing our guns? When they shut down the internet so we can't organize? Stop with "Normalcy Bias" & wake up, Cooper! These aren't normal times, the courts are our (full immunity) and the Congress are either sucking up or making useless speeches
Yeah man, imagine an America where political violence exists. That would be crazy!
It makes me real uncomfortable that you assume Luigi's guilt solely for being arrested and given no other evidence than a cop's word
@cooperlund.online nothing to say for yourself? sounds like you don’t really believe in our justice system after all
this country was forged, built, founded, and maintained with/on political violence you simpleton, you absolute rube nothing could be more american than political violence and nobody can stop what is to come with words hope this helps
I think there’s a narrow but reasonable sweet spot where you can be happy that it happened while not condoning it as a reasonable option for problem-solving in general and agreeing that he should be tried for the crime
Not true. Violence is SOMETIMES the answer. Nelson Mandela’s SACP used to trap people in tires and set them on fire. I don’t know where you guys think we’re headed but they’re already dragging white women out of town halls so you need a whole new mindset.
There are people cheering on Donald Trump and Elon Musk believing they have done nothing wrong
People are mad, and hyperbole is cathartic.
Political violence can be justified. It's the only violence that can be justified.
Largely agree but I’m going to get these jokes off on our way to hell
The fact that you somehow think his violence is different, worse, than denying life saving care (or evicting an 80 year old woman in january, or any other cruelties of business as usual in capitalism) says more about you than about Luigi or his supporters. You value peace and quiet over justice.
Oh my fucking god. The difference between Rittenhouse and Mangione is that I think Mangione’s was justified. Get fucking real and grow up. Handwringing over something that materially benefitted people is insane
It didn't benefit anyone though, wtf are you talking about? Nothing got better as a result, if anything it just made rich, powerful people feel more justified in acting like theyre the real victims of our current healthcare system.
www.yahoo.com/news/anthem-... lmao okay
This happened immediately after because of the fear that the killing put into the hearts of the powerful
www.irishstar.com/news/us-news...
It benefitted me. It gave me hope.
Random people don't get to be judge, jury, and executioner! Do you want to put your life in the hands of that guy you accidentally bumped into at Starbucks this morning? Maybe HE thinks you just committed a death penalty crime!
I don’t care about your dumb hypothetical because it has nothing to do with the material reality of why Mangione did what he did. If the failed attempt on July 13th was successful last year you cannot tell me that you wouldn’t have been relieved. I am not a violent person, but the violence that’s
accepted as “just a part of life” in our justice and prison system which has terrible recidivism, or in our healthcare system which kills tens or hundreds of thousands a year is irrelevant to you, things like the UnitedHealthcare CEO’s death will continue to be necessary
Ideally I would be a pacifist. That said, pacifism is not always feasible. Especially with regard to class war. Which we should be engaging in with the Bourgeoisie… they’re the one’s who got us into this mess
Why do you think Luigi Mangione killed a guy because if you think it's "dislike of the healthcare system" you are flat wrong. And even if it was, motive doesn't make actions good or bad. It would change nothing about the morals of the act if he did it because he thought Brian Thompson was a dragon.
He felt a personal grievance due to his own disabling and debilitating back surgery and the financial toll it took on him and his family and he targeted the man who materially benefitted the most from it. I have no moral compunction about a mass murderer who profited of human suffering getn put down
It's fine not to have compunction over it. I don't feel particularly bad about most people who get murdered randomly. It happens quite often and I don't even read about most of them. It's not news. Just, their murderers should be tried and sentenced in court if found guilty. Which is happening here.
Most blood shed is a horrible tragedy. I tend to care more about social murder than you seem to. Something like Brian Johnson I see as more akin to justice than a homeless person dying in the gutter. Those and people in Gaza truly die needlessly. Tragically
Just by the numbers you don't care about most murders because you don't hear about most murders. Someone is statistically getting killed right now who you'll never hear about. That's all. I don't blame people for not having compunctions about random acts of violence because they're mundane
The mundane is still significant and just as sublime and important as any death in my interpersonal life or inner experience of grief. Sorry
If you acted this way you would be unable to function in the world. You sit shiva for some people. If you sat shiva for everyone you would never do anything else at any time.
Sure in the generic sense there's someone probably in China or India (just because lots of people live there) who is being murdered at the moment. I don't know know who they are so in an abstract sense yes it's bad but just, I feel as bad about that person as about Thompson. They're a guy who died.
I don’t have any compassion for him unfortunately. Hard for me to care about someone who would write off my life for a buck. I cannot relate to that
No one's asking you to shed tears for Brian Thompson most people barely knew who he was. But that's very different from getting horny for murder when you hear about it.
Lmao if that’s what you think my idea of Justice is: Bloodlust, apparently then you are sorely mistaken
Luigioids are incapable of nuanced thinking. The (wrong) assumption is that you must love Thompson and insurance companies if you condemn murder on moral and legal grounds.
I know way more people that have died at the hands of CEOs denying their claims than people who were killed for bumping into them. Sorry, but yes, I will take that risk. They would do that anyway. Society has to protect citizens from harm, especially harm for profit. That's the point of society.
Right, totally fine for death and violence to be visited on tens of thousands as long as it’s via denied care through corporate bureaucracy and greed. But one executive gets killed and that’s just too much. The us is a profoundly dangerous country. This is the 1% getting the smallest exposure to it.
And also, pretending that this one outlier of an incident and the rhetorical letting off of steam on social media means that everyone just thinks violence for everything is the answer is cognitively distorted, intentionally so I suspect. How many ceos have been killed since Luigi? Thousands? Oh zero
But political violence IS justified when it's the citizens fighting against oppression. The health insurance industry kills thousands every year. People are getting fed up with corrupt systems that prop up the rich at the cost of everyone else.
Do you have a job?
That isn't how legal cases work. He is innocent until proven guilty and has pleaded not guilty. He is the alleged shooter but you can't say he executed a premeditated murder until proven in a court of his peers. Otherwise you have future crime. a minority report if you will.
They’re not saying that he didn’t do it, though. They’re saying that it’s okay if he did it, which is a very different thing.
You can if you aren't a juror or judge on his case. If he wants to sue people for defamation he's free to. Watch. George Zimmerman is a murderer. Kyle Rittenhouse is a murderer. Orenthal James Simpson is a murderer. None of them have been found guilty of murder. They are murderers.
Besides oj. They were acquitted on selfdefense. They are still murderers the courts just found them justified. my point is that the truth of the matter is we don't know if the Mangione case has enough evidence to prove it was him. We haven't seen the prosecutors case. They could have the wrong guy.
Making a different standard now are we? That’s not how that works. Killing with legs justification isn’t murder. That’s what makes some killings murders and some killings not murders. The point is that you can disagree with courts and you’re not bound by their determinations if you’re not involved
My original comment wasn't to allow or disallow a laymen to not disagree with the courts it was to say we don't have all the facts so his pitching & bellyaching about people cheering on a vigilante when we don't have one is unjustified. My point was. We have a suspect. And Op is too sensitive
The celebrating is premised on the idea that he is correctly identified as the person who killed Thompson so it’s 100% justified to accept that premise for the purpose of criticizing that celebration
Like if he’s the wrong guy why suck his dick so much?
It doesn't matter if he is or isn't the wrong guy. The point is that this is all speculation and suspect. People are allowed to like the idea of a vigilante. Regardless of truth. People like Batman. We don't actually know any of the facts. We don't have a motive etc. we don't have proof.
That’s the thing though, you should not like batman! What are you doing??
Your argument is that people should not like Batman? That's an insane take.
You like street criminals who kill billionaires and that’s why you like a billionaire who beats the crap out of people without a trial and hates the concept of police reform because it might stop him from beating up poor people in the street without a trial?
*legal
If they have the wrong guy all the people crooning that it was amazing what he did are gonna be in an awkward spot and I’ll eat crow. Happy to go out and a limb and say I don’t believe that they do.
What makes John Brown's last words so compelling to me isn't just that he's the most correct anyone has ever been. It's also that he places his mistake as being too focused on individual acts of violence. His conclusion isn't that violence is not the answer, it's that he wasn't thinking big enough.
Honest q: what is the nonviolent path to fixing a healthcare system that extracts profit by denying lifesaving healthcare? This is all downstream of corporate state capture. We’re getting back to consent-of-the-governed basics. Concentrated wealth has broken democracy.
Perfect Question. Wave after Wave after Wave of Luigis! Republicans need to so terrified of the population, that they are terrified of the lives of their kids and grandkids.
Please corporate overlords, I listen, I stay in my place!
But you condone the systemic mass murder of health insurance. You are literally a monster.
My understanding is that everyone is innocent until proven guilty in the American system. We don't know who shot that man yet. We might never truly know unless someone confesses.
Political violence is only ok when it's the rolling class perpetrating it against us plebs. When it's the other way around it's super duper uncomfortable.
I've never known an oligarchy or dictatorship to fall without violence.
I'm trying to come to terms with the ambiguity of it all. The relationship feels televisual/parasocial, Luigi's an avatar of a vibe more than a real person who murdered another real person.
A cult
And I like the vibe/plot but dislike a real person murdering another real person.
Disliking "murder" without context leaves a lot of room for moral obscurity - it's a long history of why pacifism doesn't happen. The ruling class is very clearly fine with murder - this upsetting of the "justice system" is why it's top of mind. It is not designed to give real justice to their class
Once a person can accept that murder is necessary to save people even once, it is only a discussion of WHEN it is acceptable and it looks like a good portion has agreed upon at least one time it was, even if it doesn't directly change anything - we're talking about it
Disliking it is normal. Understanding why it had to happen is putting compassion for the whole of society before the people who would bleed it dry. Just as they break ev3ry part of the social contract by using humans as collateral, we break it when we allow them to.
He's a meme. Something the denizens of the web can project onto and play with and like a lot of memes, get quickly forgotten as something else captures the attention.
I don't support vigilante violence, but there was a man executing hundreds of premeditated murders while making millions, and the justice system was powerless to stop him, so I understand the catharsis. Murder isn't more ethical when it's done as a procedural and routine denial of promised resources
I don't think idolizing Luigi is healthy or good, I just think the idolization is a symptom of a bigger problem, which is that many correctly see that powerful merchants of death will never get any other sort of justice in their lives
Yeah it would be nice if our justice system were in any way used to practically address our need for justice but it isn't.
Ok but every bad thing is a symptom of a bigger problem. Incels are a symptom of a bigger problem. White supremacists are a symptom of a bigger problem. People who like cool ranch doritos (why, just why?) are a symptom of a bigger problem. It doesn't change the evil of these people. They remain evil
that's exactly it - there is currently almost NO mechanism in society that punishes powerful people who do bad things - up to and including murder - at scale. ordinary people are left feeling like nothing *except* premeditated murder can be done. like, what OTHER options are there?
which isn't to justify it or say it'll lead to positive outcomes, it's just that i can't imagine any other outcome. of course people will be celebrating. the health insurance industry is one of the world's great evils and there's seemingly nothing anyone can do about it.
together we can
i do believe it's possible, but it's not going to happen as a result of existing mechanisms because there ARE no such mechanisms in our current society. we can't even vote against it, not in any real way.
Current mechanisms are at best rusted in place and are in need of some maintenance, fresh eyes, ingenuity, much more. If you'll help me work on things I'll help and pass on all I know. As much as we can however we can as we are able. Onward.
The current mechanisms are built, from first principles, to reinforce a binding of the common worker, while protecting the rich and powerful. They can't simply be reformed or dusted off. They are systemically rotten.
Let's rebuild them, then. Replace them, if that's what's necessary. I am with you. Self-determination for all.
i appreciate what you're saying but you have to be specific. *what* do we need to do to fix this saying we need to work together is pointless if there is no plan of action
Well if you're say, a game designer... Maybe all you can do is design a better game. Teach a little lesson or share a little of your light or send a message or try something out. My plan is just my own. I want you to see your own goals and ideals realized for yourself. Let's just do better. :)
Platitudes are how we got into this mess. They aren't the answer to the problem.
again, appreciate what you're saying, and i'm already living my life to the fullest, but none of that is going to excise the cancer that is our health care system. you're making my point for me by shifting the conversation away from what can materially be done about it.
The justice system wasn’t powerless to stop him - it’s been designed to protect him. The man literally built a Poor Person Killing Machine and the system protected and even rewarded him for it. That is a system which produces and promotes psychopaths. We can disagree with the methods all we want.
Murder is never ethical
right, that is pretty central to my point here
Murder is 99% of the time unethical, and a bad idea, but the existence of that 1% where the end of one or more lives, spares the lives of 1000s, makes it fundamentally not as simple as that.
You're a giant pissbaby who would rather see violence done to people who don't deserve it than people who do, just because the people who do happen to be in a tax bracket you respect
What is it when an insurance company delays claims for cancer treatment, or denies coverage for insulin and people die?
Business as fuckin usual that's what.
Luigi is a hero and hopefully inspires more heroism
our justice system will never hold millionaire/billionaire mass murders accountable and you have to be a braindead loser to think there's any other option at this point
The system already grants that political violence against people is justified. Healthcare denial is political violence. Everyone who treats the economy as a zero-sum game is endorsing political violence. I'm sorry you have a baby brain.
I mean America, and to varying degrees all states, is built on the premise that political violence is sometimes justified. America loves political violence.
Private health insurance is political violence. Did you really think judging the monetary value of human lives was politically neutral?
Here's the issue - United Healthcare's policy is also premeditated action that leads directly to killing people. They lose 75% of denials that go to court. Why? They offer too good to be true policies then rug their customers knowing they lack the means for legal battle.
Wasn't him
*leans in close* Political violence against a LOT of people is MORE than justifiable. And you're right it is a "dangerous path". But the alternative is letting the planet die along with all the people on it, including you so yknow, as ya'll are fond of saying; its called choosing the lesser evil.
You're scared this viewpoint is going to let society crumble and I'm telling you its already been bulldozed and replaced with a blender meant for all our families.
Putting a mass murder that liquidates people for cash into the dirt is good actually 👍💯
Nobody cares if you're uncomfortable you dork
youtu.be/IKICKcMU3MU?...
What if the justifications were specific and their necessity convincing
if it happens twice more that a murderous ceo gets whacked and the people cheer, I will consider your concern
*cleaning a handgun* i’ll hear anybody out. go on tell me what you think about stuff *waved gun at an empty chair as if signaling you to sit in it*
Many millions fewer people are "cheering on Luigi" than the millions cheering on the violent January 6 insurrectionists and their pied piper. Also, Kash Patel will be targeting people who speak ill of EL PRESIDENTE. But Luigi is the REAL problem?
The act was bad, and should be condemned. But do we REALLY have a Justice system? Trump goes free, petty criminals who make a mistake at 17 go to prison. Trump pays for an ad demanding teenagers are executed. Proud Boys & Oathkeepers convicted by juries but free to harm again by Trump.
Exactly. The justice system and law made of mockery of itself long before Trump. If anything, Trump is a consequence of there being a class of people who get to be lawless. Without fail, the people I see most often talk about damage to “the rule of law” are people who the law reliably protects.
Imagine how freaking flat-out, dead-to-rites guilty you have to be as a rich, famous White man in America to be convicted of 34 felonies by a jury of 12 folks from your home town.
Cry about it, loser
What Luigi did was extremely good and cool and we need more Luigis actually.
Looked like self defense to me
the hundreds of thousands of dollars he’s raised feels like a decadent society
How health care and health insurance is structured in America has made people angry and seeking retribution.
They're not people, Cooper. They're CEOs.
I suppose one’s feelings on this hinges on whether one believes the ~100 thousand people/year we sacrifice to Mammon on the alter of our barbaric medical system are ‘political violence,’ or some sort of natural order of things.
If it is not a natural order of things, then some companies are inflicting fatalities equivalent to three whole Vietnam wars on the American people every single year just so they can be more rich. That isn’t political violence? What is it?
We have some right wing zealots here who WAnT the left to turn to violence because that will justify Trump’s use of military troops to put down the rebellion and to cancel future elections.
A lot of people get killed every day and they don't get weepy news stories about how terrible their deaths are and there are many killers there and they don't get the same level of coverage about how awful they are or have the mayor and a dozen police make a show of arresting them.
Violence against murderers is based. Hope this helps
The ethics of politics violence is entirely situational.
I could give a shit if you trust me or noy, but if it will help you sleep better I’ll clear things up for you: certain people have already been politically violent for years, so violence against them is self defense and therefore justified
lol “noy”
what is the alternative when the justice system refuses to hold them accountable?
Luigi demonstrably killed fewer people than the CEO. Systemic murder makes corpses just as well as bullets, after all. You hate Luigi for aesthetic reasons, not because you oppose death and suffering.
what’s your take on John Brown?
Have they released any sort of tests to show that there weren't any drugs in that CEOs system? He had multiple DUIs, so it's not impossible that he could have been on something when he attacked luigi, forcing luigi to act in self-defense.
He was no angel.
I do not agree with you, but can at least understand your viewpoint. What I find more concerning is the general implication/consensus that Luigi absolutely did it. He is supposed to be innocent until proven guilty, and the entire media is treating him as if he has been convicted already.
The Proud Nazis are just waiting for their green light.
Fact.
Very interesting that all of this hand-wringing about political violence came after Zimmerman and Rittenhouse getting careers out of the political murders they committed, I wonder why this one is different
No, it's not.
It’s crazy. Civil wars are horrible but sometimes can’t be avoided and occasionally the better side wins. Anarchic political violence is just terrible and never leads to anything good. Murder is bad
Just as a point of order, the Japanese Dohickey Guy seems to have made a positive impact and also this literally happened just two days after the fact in this case. www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...
The anesthesia policy was to stop actual, real fraudulent claims! Changing it was bad because it lets doctors shake down insurance companies once more!
Elevance Health, Inc. (formerly known as Anthem) reported strong first quarter 2024 profits of $2.2 billion, a 12.9% increase from the prior year quarter. I think the wittle health insurance company will survive without unilaterally timing complex medical procedures personally
they were altering their guidelines so that they paid for the same duration of anesthesia as medicaid
Dr. Donald Arnold, the president of the American Society of Anesthesiologists, sharply questioned how Anthem had determined the time limits. “No, it’s not part of Medicare or Medicaid,” he said. “Nobody else has a system like this.
gee, the American Society of Anesthesiologists said so! I guess we'll just believe the medical cartel
Lmao that the doctors are the medical cartel and not the useless middlemen! Come on would a health insurance company just lie to better their bottom line? Let's ask the AI they want to monitor claims!
And Then Who Pays The Rest
are you a small child doctors are then unable to extort the insurance company, and no longer overcharge
"Are you a small child" asks the person who thinks all medical procedures work on an exact timeline.
This is an argument for Tim McVeighing federal medicare offices and it's really messed up that that throughline is not clear to you
No one's made that argument? Maybe you posted on the wrong thread. This is the end of arguing over anthem's failed anesthesia policy?
nothing needs to happen more than insurance companies collapsing and disappearing into universal health care. venal unhelpful industry
Would it have been 'anarchic political violence' if someone had killed Hitler in 1936, and would that not have led to anything good?
the only symbol that keep me from reposting this is "never"
Yawn, the healthcare industry has been executing premeditated murder for their shareholders for decades. Take a seat.
i feel like we didn’t hear NEARLY this much pearl clutching after Trayvon Martin was murdered. IMO that’s a big reason for the tonal shift.
If he hadn’t done murder he would probably have a .doge.gov email address
The system has failed. Some times reasonable men must do unreasonable things. Luigi is a hero.
Saying Luigi is a hero is irresponsible. It hasn’t been proved that he did anything at all.
Me on the bad path:
Unchecked vigilantism is bad. Also, there is no part of our current system that will save us from our current system.
INNOCENT! Until found guilty in a court of law. And that is only a single aspect of it.
Surely you think political violence is justified in some cases? The American revolution? Resistance fighters in Nazi occupied Europe?
This is correct. Political violence is the only form of justifiable violence.
Idk. Some stable genius did quote Napoleon in saying "He who saves his Country does not violate any Law," just this week Seems pretty clear cut to me
Lighten up and get over yourself bro.
Perhaps the CEO shouldn’t have been benefiting from a system of political violence that directly harms millions.
I love everyone conveniently forgetting that if he does get off that's an obscenely wealthy man from a crazy moneyed family being able to murder with impunity. That's not good!
I don’t necessarily disagree, but I think a lot of this is people reacting to the cognitive dissonance inherent in the way society treats bureaucratic mass murder vs physical violence being thrown into sharp relief
How many deaths do you think Mr Ceo was responsible for, considering that claim denials increased from 15% to 33% under his leadership? Its worse than just premeditated when its in an effort to enrich yourself. I hope he likes things hot.
A man whipped up a crowd into assaulting Congress, managed to put off legal action for 4 years, then managed to get enough people thrown off the voter rolls to get re-elected to an indictment-proof position ... How is that Justice system better than vigilantism? ... Asking for a nation.
If he then pardons all his henchmen, and insinuates that he will pardon anyone "big" rather than conform to the law, gelding that justice system ... How is that Justice system better than vigilantism?
The Law and the courts must bind everyone, or people will lose faith in them. It WILL devolve into settling scores and assassinating both the innocent they loathe as well as those with power who abuse it. ... When you take away people's faith in the Justice system, you court chaos & vigilantism.
are you a child? whatever world you're living in is completely disconnected from the average person.
You’re writing about him as though we’re certain he did it. I know you’re making a point about people supporting the murderer generally, but Luigi himself is still supposed to be presumed innocent until he is proven in court to be the guy who pulled the trigger.
Dumb comment
In what way?
When law reliably fails and electoral politics is broken beyond recognition I'm not sure what else we should expect to happen. There is such a thing as an idea or a person that not only invites but requires violence to confront.
Stfu.
hey, you watched any news about the federal government lately?
*when he executed a premeditated murderER Fixed that for ya
Cause Luigi didn't execute an innocent man in cold blood, he killed a killer. A killer with blood colder than ice. A killer who had reduced millions of innocent lives down to a number on a sheet of paper, who didn't even see them as people any longer.
A killer that wasn't even considered to be doing a single thing wrong according to that "justice system" you seem to proud of
This one. He wasn't going to be held to account by the justice system bc according to our "justice" system he had broken no law. Capitalism, baby!
even if you weren't completely idiotic, this still wouldn't make any sense because no one has proven he did it
This is a big reason I was worried about the "punching a Nazi is good, actually", since it's very easy to start expanding the definition of Nazism/include other groups in it, and then you have lots of people wanting political violence.
He’s also pretty clearly a right-winger!
That doesn’t matter. No left vs right going forward. Class warfare means the haves vs the have nots.
...and? Is there more to that point?
The justice system is really working hard to prosecute murderers with guns but turns a blind eye when the weapon is a spreadsheet. It’s completely legal to murder people with Excel
you should absolutely trust that I will say that lmao
Yeah, this is dumb and performative
I think you've been thoroughly rationed. Has that moved your opinion one bit? Kid dying, slowly,in agony of a treatable disease or a greedy, psychopathic CEO Lund? Your choice coward.
It's really simple Lund. Imagine the trolley problem & one track you have a billionaire who owns the trains & tracks & controls everything. On the other track you have millions of children & elderly & injured & disabled. Do YOU move the lever? Or just sit back feeling smug about how moral you are?
Shoot him again i can see his soul dancing
luigi hasn't been convinced and i don't think he did it the rest of your opinions are wrong too
I've somehow worn out the screenshot about "a fetish for being yelled at" on posts like this. It's just a white screen now.
Insurance companies that deny healthcare causing death is political violence just as well
Cooper a lot of people are going to die if someone doesn't do something. This attitude doesn't belong in this world. It's aggravating and depressing but you can't run from the reality that the only way out of this is to make them scared.
I’m pretty uninterested in if he was “justified” or if “we should support him”, but I can’t deny this powerful sense that he is the predictable output of the nightmarish ways our society is cracking at the seams and I similarly can’t get too precious about the breakdown in law and order basically
The fact that we have arrived at this point, and the increasing probability of more people engaging in similar violence, don’t really depend on what moral sentiments I do or don’t express. We’re already here.
Or, to put it more simply, I did not create the conditions in which this violence can occur and can become a flashpoint of populist discontent, and I really don't think I'm therefore responsible for resolving it. There are things the people in power could do to bring the temperature back down.
I don't think they either a) have the wherewithal to do it, or b) want to do it because it brings them some sort of gain.
i think a is the convenient story they tell themselves cuz b
