My increasingly close-held crank take is that we need to be way better about casting off childish things, or at the bare minimum recognizing they’re for children and feeling weird about that
My increasingly close-held crank take is that we need to be way better about casting off childish things, or at the bare minimum recognizing they’re for children and feeling weird about that
I spent most of my adolescence wanting to be a sophisticated 20-something so this adult obsession with kids stuff never made any sense to me. I thought Harry Potter was nerd shit for babies when I was an actual kid!
I was reading Brothers Karamazov at 14 and stealing cigarettes from grownups even though I hated smoking. So yes, Harry Potter always struck me as cringe lit for sad people.
I thought I was cool because I “discovered” punk music by way of an Epitaph records compilation I bought at Best Buy.
You WERE cool!!! I'd have been slightly intimidated by you. One of my first CD purchases was Hole's Live Through This.
Lol me too. I wasn’t snotty (too shy), but I read early and voraciously, and having shit like HP pushed at me at 11 when I’d started reading Stephen King at age 7, of course I was like “that’s kid shit.”
Same
this ultimately boils down to how the person I am quote tweeting here is annoying and grating to be around, and it's grating that pop culture caters increasingly to them bsky.app/profile/exxz...
they aren't wrong.
With all the fuckery going on in the world, I cannot bring myself to care about this. Let people enjoy things before the apocalypse takes it all away.
Y'know, I don't wanna lash out, but I really don't understand why the world can't let people enjoy the things they enjoy. This is the problem, that some people get joy from Disney or Steven Universe or Kirby? This is what we need to fix?
Art and pop culture should strive to be more than just a safety blanket for children. It's bad for society if there's nothing deeper than that to consume, and in the absence of criticism, that's all there will be.
No one's saying you can't enjoy the kid stuff, but also, people are allowed to remind you you're an adult.
Isn't it more about the nostalgia? I don't see a bunch adults gravitating towards Gabby's doll house but I know my child will have fond memories of that show..might buy an adult shirt when she is older.
Some is nostalgia (I will always love The Goonies (duh!), but I can also think Kpop Demon Hunters was a blast. I'm probably not going to blast The Wiggles while I drive around though.
You're assuming that media designed for children doesn't have depth and meaning of its own. If you really think Harry Potter isn't worthy of critical analysis, especially in light of how it's been recontextualized by its author, I'm really not sure what to say.
I'm not assuming that, but you're absolutely right about the rest. Luckily, "this thing is for kids" is a real and legitimate critique.
I'll also add that I collect records, and this is one of my absolute favorite country albums. I am, however, fully aware of what it is. www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...
right about kids' entertainment being worthy of critical analysis, that is, in case that wasn't clear. I happen to think Harry Potter is bottom-tier fantasy that only endures because so many of us grew up with it, but there's a lot to explore there, even w/o JK Rowling being a monster (which she is)
ironically enough harry potter is a much richer and more interesting text if approached as criticism for how much it absolutely sucks
"My heart has been broken by my true love, Cho Chang. Guess I have to find a new true love, whose only qualities are being a girl and my buddy's sister."
chock full of nasty women getting what they deserve for going against men who know better, greedy jewish goblins and ugly sniveling little naked molerat men who just love being slaves on a genetic level
Yes! Rowling is a pretty solid prose stylist for a children's author, but I have little else positive to say about it.
'This thing is for kids' is a legitimate critique if you're talking about climbing on an indoor playground built for children, because it causes harm. It is legitimate for the Ghibli museum to demand deference to children, to criticize Disney adults who are entitled and inconsiderate of children.
I've been to that museum and it's exceptional even if you've barely seen any Miyazaki movies. And Miyazaki obviously has a much greater respect for his audience (of children) than Disney does.
But also, that's not the issue here. It's people getting pissy because you've insulted the honor of their childhood fave. Like, Marvel movies are not Shakespeare (I'm not saying you're saying this, but you surely know people consume only that level of art and behave that way)
'This media franchise should not be your entire personality' is a problem that is related to media targeted at children, but it's also a different problem. The fact that my pfp is King Deedeedee does not mean that I don't contain multitudes.
I do like his giant hammer
It is not a legitimate critique if it amounts to 'this thing is coded for children, so why would an adult enjoy it?' The harm is non-existent. It's just prescribing what people should and should not be for no reason except that it's not usual or expected.
Harry Potter is not Pale Fire. Pale Fire is not Finnegan's Wake. Finnegan's Wake is not folklore. Folklore is not Inside Out. They are all different things.
Who fucking cares Mind your own business, and stop being a finger-wagging busybody :P "Oh, we're adults, so that means we need to like Hard and Serious and Difficult things" Buzz off, lol
this is paired with adults demanding darker and edgy versions of children's entertainment. you don't need a gritty reboot of iron man; go watch taking of pelham 123.
you didn't _say_ Steven Universe fans but oh boy that's where I've seen it the most I enjoy some kids/teens shows as fun things obviously, but there's a point where people end up coming over like Ageing Nerd Yelling In The Faces Of Little Kids At A Pokemon Tournament
also I definitely caught some side-eye when I referred to Warhammer books being YA (even if they pretend very hard that they're _not_)
Burn down the Funko Pop factories and salt the earth they stood on
It would be a lot easier to enjoy Harry Potter if it's author wasn't constantly spouting hate all day on social media.
It would be a lot easier to enjoy Harry Potter if there was more sex and less magic in the story
Well lucky for you that also exists.
And adults should be reading that instead of treatises about magic/quidditch/whatever
I think it’s fine to enjoy child-oriented entertainment without feeling weird about it. I also think current and potential Harry Potter fans should be gently guided to the Discworld series to avoid the risk of growing into awful adults.
On the one hand, I think this is the best and smartest thing C.S. Lewis ever said by a very wide margin. On the other hand, I think even Lewis understood you should recognize the differences between things made for children and those for adults even if you shouldn't have to feel weird about it.
So I'm with you about halfway, give or take: go on and enjoy the Kirby game or the book series for kids or whatever. But acknowledge you're indulging your inner child and that you're enjoying something for which you aren't the primary audience, and don't try to turn it into something it isn't.
I mean, if you're going to apply the same level of introspection C.S. Lewis brings to "childish things", you're going to be pretty OK I do not think the vast majority of adult Harry Potter fans do this or even know how to do this.
i am trying to cultivate an "artifacts of the dead world weaken us" mindset nostalgia is a poison and the dose is cumulative, mithratidism doesn't work
why does the kid look like the old lady at the end of the taking of deborah logan
Or the girl in the closet at the beginning of The Ring
You don't have to license AI
British
I think this is correct. I don't think one needs to cast off childish things, but adults need to recognize that they aren't the target demographic.
I’ve never understood, as someone who occasionally reads YA as an adult and has served my time in fandom spaces, why some people don’t accept stuff made for children as something that doesn’t need to cater to them? It’s very odd. Obvs kids media can tackle universal themes, but… it’s meant for kids.
When people complain that YA lit has more simplistic language or dialogue it really rubs me the wrong way and makes me wonder why these adults aren’t also expanding into more complex works (usually fiction) and insist that a certain property meant for kids start involving adult themes? Suspicious.
I think that's the key: the self-awareness to know that these things aren't *for you* and don't need to cater to you, even if it was a thing you enjoyed as a kid. It's ok to still ride along! It's just not yours any more.
I would cast off HP for the simple fact that JKR is a raging hatemongering transphobe who is using her wealth from that franchise to do real harm that has a rising body count. I’d also point out that so many labels in lit, such as “YA” etc, is marketing not factual/objective.
My broadly-interpreted take is that I think YAF should be "owned" by actual young adults, and that doesn't mean older adults can't or shouldn't enjoy it, but we are guests in a community that, for once, doesn't belong to us.
That’s quite the stretch from what I actually said, but hey, you do you 👍
I... wasn't arguing with you? What's with the attitude
This is basically fine, I sort of agree and sort of don’t and think it’s mostly correct - except that if somebody tries to get wise with me for considering The Westing Game one of the greatest literary accomplishments of all time there will be words and the words will not be minced
I'm kind of torn about this. On one hand, I think the "eternal childhood fandom" thing has been a net negative for both the media landscape and our collective psyche in general. On the other hand, I genuinely think you could make a GREAT game about an exhausted adult rediscovering Pokémon training.
I'll take option C. Recognizing they're for children, but not feeling weird about it. I would say, I think it's weird to feel weird about it. Just like what you like.
I love and collect children's lit. I also recognize it as for children. There are works which hold great nostalgia for me - but it's nostalgia for childhood! It's not my adult identity.
I’m sympathetic to this though I’d allow more leeway in a “recognizing they’re for children but allowing some space for healthy appreciation” category. Also, curious how you consider something like Peanuts that potentially subverts this dynamic.
My take is that demographic is independent of medium and (mostly) genre, with some exceptions, so there's no conflict with a comic strip (even a comedic newspaper comic strip) being pitched at adults, like there's no conflict with adult-oriented animation.
[coming in wearing a suicide vest] I agree and I count Taylor Swift's music in this
Similarly, I’ll never understand how the Beatles, a band that initially was only popular with children, managed to have such an outsized iconography these days.
Yes, regardless of the quality, it was obvious from the first ten seconds that her music was not aimed at me, and, in fact, does not appeal to me. However, I saw Chappell Roan at Reading and she was totally amazing. So I appear to have NFI.
Part of the trouble is Swift herself stopped recognizing that and attempted to level up to Sophisticated Singer Songwriter for with mixed results.
You will take my love for Oscar the Grouch from my cold, dead hands
you’re right and you’re right to say it
We're going to end up with a gritty harry potter sequel with Harry as a functional alcoholic ministry of magic DCI then?
One Dirty Harry Potter comin' up
acab means wizard cops too
IDK, Taylor Swift is 35 years old and puts out new music pretty regularly. Maybe it's not your cup of tea, maybe it's not even good, but is it actually *childish* to listen to and enjoy the Tortured Poets Department?
You know I’m not going to disagree here, and you’re right with the implication that poptimism is a part of this
come on in, it's nice and warm here, inside the suicide vest (but yes I think self-infantilisation can easily be extended to "stuff 17 year olds love", it's not just about Kid kid stuff, there should be an acknowledgement that teen culture should be for......teens)
Braver than the troops.
before we go too far down this road i think we're going to need to start distinguishing between children's media and "young adult" media because otherwise, yikes
nah that's exactly my point - YA stuff isn't the same as adult stuff! bsky.app/profile/youn...
Marie...
Genuinely: what is there for adults in Harry Potter other than the warmth of nostalgia if you happened to have liked the books as a kid? We all enjoy things from our childhoods, but that doesn't mean these things are still made for kids.
And part of being a mature adult is knowing how to still enjoy those things without falling prey to nostalgia, making our childhood tastes our whole personality, etc.
that is, if you even care to do so. It's good to let things go too.
I can appreciate that some folks had difficult childhoods and want to use their recovered time as adults to care for themselves, but…those should be moments of kind generosity, not the baseline. It’s good to develop and grow, and push for richer/deeper art to interact with, and push ourselves.
I feel like at a minimum you can still love the things you loved as a child, but start acting like an adult in relation to them. Disney adults, Potter heads, star wars fanatics can all still like their Fandoms, but be an adult and do so with some dignity.
Sexy Star Wars!
I think I can use the analogy with you fellas, but we have good (not great) social awareness of toxic sports parents, and how some people can stay stuck in high school forever, or try to force their values on their kids. Having that for pop culture would be good too.
You can pry Kpop Demon Hunters from my cold, dead hands.
My increasingly hard-held take as I've gotten older is 100% the opposite. Arbitrarily (key qualifier there) deeming some fun things as bad for you to like when you get older is bad, and I don't really see any utility in doing so, beyond snobbery/being a killjoy. Let people enjoy things.
No Who tf cares what you do, or what you like, if you aren't hurting anyone Side effect of everyone on this damn website being over thirty, lol (no offense)
Being over thirty, and Important And Serious Politics Accounts, Don't You Know Get over your damn selves, lmao Life's supposed to be fun, and not some strict, arbitrary guidelines on How To Be An Adult Correctly ✌️
Paraphrasing CS Lewis: "When I became an adult, I realized that one of the most important parts of being an adult, was not trying to hide or put away childish things" (Also Harry Potter sucks anyways, and the author is a uber-transphobe, so there's better examples we could pick :P)
I'd agree. I don't think there's anything wrong with being a fan of it-- in a vacuum, that is. because of its still alive transphobic author. But I don't think it was ever rated to be the identity-scaffolding it's become for some. It can't support the weight people have placed on it emotionally
I was a discworld kid, though.
I haven't watched The Ring since I turned 18. The antagonist is a literal child so that movie is for children.
speaking of which that kid's looking like they watched the ring tape 8 days ago
Haha that was what inspired me to post about The Ring. I'm not sure what's going on there.
Many years ago Ruth Graham published this piece in Slate. The reaction was pretty wild — lots of responses, incredibly defensive. I talk about it with my students. The “it doesn’t matter what you read, as long as you read” attitude is one I want them to lose — of course it matters what you consume!
Anyway the strength of the reaction I always think was fascinating. Why shouldn’t an adult be mildly embarrassed to spend time on childish things? It doesn’t stop me! Sometimes I need a break! But sometimes I think — man, I need to spend some time on something more challenging, too.
I think we also need to support the position that it’s ok to be a big fan of something but that making it a foundational aspect of your sense of self is functionally a mental illness
The attitude of casting off childish things is part of how we got to where we are. Cause along with the media and content they also cast off the open-mindedness, the curiosity, the empathy, the wonder, the joy. Bigotry in all its form is in part a way of taking thing too seriously.
I think there’s something here but I am also skeptical of the ways people often draw this line for others. Like is it simply that all genre fiction is for babies? Star Wars is pretty clearly for babies but I honestly did get a lot out of watching Andor.
I have a big soft spot for things that are in between. Like I really enjoy Jenny Nicholson’s videos on theme parks. I don’t even like going to them, but I think her commentary is really interesting and gets me thinking deeply about something that I would otherwise trivialize.
A certain level of snobbery and elitism is good, actually.
Beside the point, but whaaaat is going on with the kid’s face in that picture.
I assume it's probably AI generated.
Well, someone just lost the Disney Adult vote.
Am I playing the new Kirby DLC on my Switch? Yes. Do I recognize that it’s a game my friend’s 5 year old is also playing and does that make me feel a little odd? Also yes.
Kirby games (and most Nintendo first party games) specifically are designed to be "all ages" which is different than "for kids" (Harry Potter).
Games are a special case here. Great mechanics are great mechanics.
I continue to watch those new Star Wars cartoons, but with a steadily increasing amount of shame, as is healthy
I don't even think you have to attach a negative value judgment to liking it, just make some effort to be normal, i.e. neither going out of your way to hide it and feel ashamed, nor being too eager to broadcast it to people who you can reasonably assume aren't interested.
Getting a lot of anime avatar opposition to this, which I think proves my point
top comment on your screen shot is mentioning a fetish where you pretend to be a child
"sentenced to ten thousand years in little space" shut the fuck up
I think it's great when a stranger threatens me with non-consentual sexual violence for an opinion about maybe growing up a bit :)
online tummyaches are no joke
I play with my LEGOs like an -adult- (put the minfigs in sex positions)
and not a single one understands the irony of their replies, which is hilarious
"sentences to ten thousand years in little space" is up there with *inflates you, making you big and round* in terms of high octane cringe
People it is ok to like something and not be its target audience, just don’t LIE TO YOURSELF ABOUT IT
“chucklenuts”
if this person is from tumblr they used to think all or most existing insults were bigoted so they made up new ones
Middle comment seems to imply "things not made for children" can't be fun and I think it's a very telling attitude!!
Most aren't. the stuff "for adults" tends to fall either into "pretentious" Or "toilet humor". there's always exceptions, but you tend to find a wider variety of content as you go down the ratings scale. its not helped by "adults" who seem to exclusively target "fun" when labeling things "childish"
Please keep watching My Little Pony, interesting stories for adults would be wasted on you.
Counter point: if more people watched MLP and took its messages to heart the world wouldn't be the shithole that it is. Hate the fans all you want, at least they understand basic morality, they aren't the ones ruining this country and many others.
Lmao what
It's the corollary to "it's okay to like trash movies, just don't try to defend it as serious media"
they do that too
I also think it's telling that they straight-forwardly equate "kids' stuff = fun." There's lots of stuff aimed at adults that's fun! (I just rewatched Grosse Pointe Blank last night, which fits the bill.) This isn't about forcing miserabilism on ppl, just expanding your horizons.
i agree with you and i see everyone in the replies does too
I know this isn't what this is about but it strikes me that Anime fandoms and Hentai in particular are really bad about this
This is probably the biggest cultural difference I see between current young people (and really, anybody under like 40) and us Gen Xers. Granted, I and my peers were cranky even for Gen Xers, but even the kids who loved Star Wars couldn't marinate in the Star Wars universe all day.
I mostly disagree with you here but think it does apply to Harry Potter specifically
my take on this is that if more ppl spent time on childish things the world would be a better place
Seahawks football.
that's R rated entertainment for masochists only
I agree. I also think it's important to question what "childish" even means. There are a million stages of childhood. Are we talking baby books? YA fiction? Dolls? Dress up? Play acting? Obviously the quoted post is about Harry Potter, but to generalize it to all 'childish things' is... real odd
Additionally, even if we are just limiting it to media, there is brilliant children's media out there, and it is made by the creative passion of adults! If we're all putting away childish things, who is making that media? Is it only cool to create, not enjoy?
Go Blue, is my response.
Other 3%: IDGAF if you like it cool 👍 whatever. You do you. Namaste Biancas.