Press briefing concluded. Fun exchange (paraphrased): "Was the attack aimed at v d Leyen?" "Ask Russia" Thoughts: No new technical details, only vague expressions, but to me it sounds less and less like GPS-jamming and more like something else. audiovisual.ec.europa.eu/en/media/vid...
Every plane can easily land without GPS, as this is only an add-on navi in planes. Most likely the Russki jammed the instrument landing system ILS, 108 MHZ upwards, analog in AM for precision landing. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrum...
apprently (according to a Bulgrian press release quoted by Politico) they switched to ILS
But ILS is the default system for landings on every international airport. And it is much easier to jam than GPS.
Default or not the press release states switch from GNSS to ILS (RNAV to ILS) how is ILS easier to jam compared to GPS ? assuming attacker is not local Note:overpowering a weak GNSS signal from space is easier than overpowering a local ILS transmitter in close proximity of the aircraft landing IMHO
+1 in principle. But it works rather strictly in [theoretical] line of sight. You need an elveated position for jamming, . Looked up ILS, 25 Watts standard, enough++ for nearfield. VHF truck mounted comms stations of the RU army blow up to a few 100 watts VHF. They have shitloads of these... 1/2
... won't suggest that this was the case. But I do think that this presse release omitted some information necessary to understand the matter. Nothing about the 3rd system, the radar guided approach combined with voice guidance by the tower. Also on VHF.
Why would an attacker be hanging around "locally" ? VHF is relatively easy to track, especially high-power, not to mention on a truck with large antenna, vs L1 (GNSS) where you need a small antenna and relative low power, thats assuming local. All this aside, i'm missing reasons why it was not GNSS
same here.
The transponder said ”GNSS is fine” all the way. Thats why. Either they were jammed in another way than usual, not jammed or we have the wrong plane.
1. its the right plane, it was shown arriving on video (see below) 2. ADS-B transponder could have its own GNSS receiver (not sure, don't know the Falcon 900LX) different from the plane's avionics (flying RNAV) with one more susceptible it is curious,yes, but I'm not yet convinced based that alone
Right behind the plane is a radome containing the [active] landing radar [5 GHz afair], the output goes to the ILS ground transmitters and to the tower that can direct the plane via voice. Both these are on VHF.
Convinced of what? I am not not convinced of anything. =D
Neither me. Rather listed some technical possibilities. The animation above looks like caused by a plane entering the Black Sea from Turkish airspace.
convinced either way ! but giving the amount of GNSS jamming going on, which is relatively easy and can be done from afar, I'm leaning towards it being that and that pattern is also curious... bsky.app/profile/dutc...
Would you link the press release?
also the increase in interference reported is interesting, the timing seems off compared to the OO-GPE landing time but not sure how accurate these interference plots are I find the increase and size, including inland Bulgaria rather interesting...
so far only politico and reuters referring to it, didnt dig into finding the actual press release
Uhm.Have to disagree as well. 1.LBPD is ILS on 30 only with no Back Course published. 2.RNP(formerly RNAV) approaches are absolutely used equally in a lot of places,including international airports-and it's the only precision on 12 at LBPD. 3.Even if ILS approach is available RNPs allows(..)
(..)a few tricks including helping with spacing that make them sometimes desirable for ATC, especially if you are a little jet in between airliners AND have priority. And well,if you do an RNP and get spoofed/jammed you switch over to ILS...as they said.
I emailed the EU Commission press contact to ask about plane identity and someone at the briefing did as well. They are not answering, but given the id above i am confident it was OO-GPE: globe.adsbexchange.com?icao=449e05&...
ADS-B analysis is not reliable enough for ground based and targeted Jamming. Terrestrial Sensors are the best solution for that.
Even more technical confusion (likely). Some outlets runs with "radar was jammed" I really hope EU/Bulgaria deliver a transparent incident report with all technical details.
GPS radar. Ok.
Germany's chief of defence was also jammed the hours after von der Leyen, but over Baltic Sea, a jamming hotspot. This one seem a lot less newsworthy, that jammer has been running for years. Begs the question, coordinated comms laying groundwork for action against jamming? =)
Today i think was the first time totally without GPS in the area north of Berlin (Templin) and Szczecin. Absolutely no contact. Bad quality measurments caused by low GPS happen from time to time but today was different. It was dead.
From where and with what equipment? An Apple watch walking? The transponder in a plane? And what do you mean by dead?
We use various surveying devices. It was the first time we had absolutely no GPS.
Still surprised that it is complicated to locate the source.
Its not, it is extremely easy with the sigint planes circling the transmitters daily. They know exactly where, how, when it is and likely the color of it.
But no action? (The same with IL ships south of Cyprus.)
As cathartic as it would be, I can see why policymakers have yet to lob cruise missiles at St. petersburg.
bsky.app/profile/dutc...
FT (first article on issue?), non-paywall: archive.is/GlmzJ "Disabled GPS nav services at airport" "The whole airport area GPS went dark" "Jet.....was deprived of electronic navigational aids" "circling the airport for an hour...landed using maps" Most of this seem to be Bulgarian officials to FT
Thanks!
Also "The aircraft circled for an hour before landing manually" seems to be made up. It made one extra detour of maybe 10 minutes. It knew where the airport was, so why would they need paper (!) maps?
Today’s ”von der Leyen was jammed”-story saw (as per usual) way too many very certain people reaching die-hard conclusions, often rooted in pre-conceptions or feelings/opinions. And again a lot of them will be proven wrong. Data is incomplete and the owls are not what they seem.
What do we know so far? I lost track.
EU commission and Bulgarian officials claim plane was jammed and other specifics Open data non-compatible with many of those statements. Might do a better summary tomorrow.
Much appreciated 🙌
Your summary and detail is very good. Thank you.
As expected, the "German general was jammed"-story was also misconstrued and taken out of context. He was victim of the normal everyday jamming anyones see in Baltic and my bet is that there was no temporal association with VDLeyen flight. bsky.app/profile/greg...
I think they used this to make a point. And do not take me wrong, I do not mean it is a PR stunt, there is a point, the implication on traffic security is high
GPS interference as such is a nuisance, but not a real security threat. As stated, it is quite common around the Black Sea and elsewhere and there are ways to safely navigate w/o GPS. Even the German press is now starting to go beyond the surface.
But regardless, it is military use from a warzone, impacting us economically and civil security. It should be brought up, and economic pressure should be used, eg blockade against black fleet shipping
For a long time "everything is safe" was the lullaby from authorities. Authorities have changed the tune and that's wise because very basic risk analysis will indicate changed and likely more risky operations when you remove a well working, comfortable system central to the activity performed.
Does the ICAO not have the authority to intervene in this jamming malarkey?
toothless regulator, like most of these international agencies
Ok Schmettolowski. We’ll just have to accept Russia is trying to cause a civilian air disaster and there’s nothing we can do. 🤷♂️
We here in the EU could close the airspace/border to all aircrafts going into Russia/Belarus and force them to take a different route, for example. Would help deal with the problem of Belarus selling desperate people tourist packages and directing them to illegally cross the Polish border.
Not good is it?
That's a misunderstanding. General Inspector Breuer said that he had experienced GPS jamming in the past when traveling on a miltary plane. However, pilots would know how to cope with it. Navy Inspector Kaack added that this has become a common occurrence referring to the Tartu airport incident.
Here's the recording, starting from 11:39
This feels like a step change in the pattern of escalation, when you add it to other recent indicators.
Funny that this Sam McNeil put the question to Mark Rutte today referring to "GPS jamming".
We NEED sources and fact checking, there is NO OTHER WAY!
Those outlets just don't have a clue what they are talking about. Just like most people think that the #GPS satellites know where they are.
Nothing interesting in that audiovisual video, apart from 1 thing. She said: "VdL is travelling to Bulgaria to the front" Do they see it already as a front line?
Yeah, right, that was also a peculiar detail.
