Tax them all even if they don't have a goddam pulpit.

There's penalties for certain charities that deviate from their charter. Absolutely churches should be penalized as well, and especially their leadership that benefits from all those tithes.

Amen

👍🏻👍🏼👍🏾👍👍🏿👍🏽

That’s a different point than your first post. This one I can agree with. Trouble is, how do you enforce it without looking poorly. You know Trump isn’t going to do it.

Back in the early 2000s I attended a church service in southern Arizona where the pastor handed out pamphlets that discussed a ballot measure about same sex marriage. He preached about it.. and instructed the congregation on how to vote. He's now a state representative.

absolutely

The sanctuary could be tax free. The school buildings, sports field. Coffee shop, theater etc all taxable.

Agreed!

I like this. Extend it to, parish expenses under 10k are tax free, private airplanes and Rolex watches, not so much.

IT”s alL PArT of ThE m!n!sTry!!1!!

👍🔥✋

Long overdue. Why are we allowing this for something that has no proof of reality. We tax sports and entertainment why something that produces leaders that live in luxury with private planes, luxury cars & mansions. Not to mention whole fenced and guarded compounds. Stop it.

Absolutely!!

Religion is big business. Churches are highly political now. Sermons include a lot of stumping, mainly for one party!! Taxes are the price of admission to democracy!!

Let's just be fair and tax them all.

Churches need to be taxed!

💯

People would stop going to church if that happened

If you take in money, you should pay taxes.

Ken Copeland and Joel Osteen do not like this idea... There is a never enforced IRS regulation that prohibits politicking from the pulpit, I suspect that will never happen as if it did it would work its way to our very tainted SCOTUS who would rule for the preachers.

💯

UH RELIGION IS NOW RUNNING THINGS THEY SHOULD ABSOLUTELY PAY TAXES ! in fact they should pay all the taxes

This. Tax every church out there.

And donations shouldn’t be tax deductible, either, if they’re doing pulpit politics.

Politik or not they should pay taxes like any other business...let 'em write off any charity costs...seems simple enough.

Taxing the churches might just be the divine intervention we need to fix the potholes

💯 Enforce the Johnson Amendment

People need to know this please explain why this is an issue for debate. What churches fight this and why?

Taxes should have been implemented years ago.

The humble Joel Osteen home! 🤡🤡

Probably houses any number of nubile young first years.

That thing is bigger than a lot of community colleges.

Even if you don't politick from the pulpit, you should pay taxes. Mega churches w/preachers driving Bentleys and wear Rolex and living in mansions? Nuh uh.

Property tax to benefit the town and state where all the monstrous buildings are plus income tax... if you have an amphitheater where you put on ridiculous pageants (looking at you Church of the Rock) then you can pay taxes.

Something to campaign on nationally in four years and locally right now.

MAGA have made no secret they want to fully merge state with the christian church. So yeah, I’m down to oblige and tax the shit out of ‘em.

I cannot comment about politics when I am leading a religious service. And I don't recall anyone in my Sufi Order speaking about politics while in the role of being a religious leader. How come big Christian churches can't do it?

The exemption that churches have from taxes is predicated on them NOT politicking from the pulpit. I do not understand how at least half the evangelical churches have not lost their tax exemption... except that the IRS just hasn't done anything about it.

You convinced me. TAX all religious institutions that are currently tax exempt.

I think mega churches definitely need to be taxed, but those local ones who help people shouldn't. Same with other religious places.

I been preaching this for years, the churches are getting too powerful, it truly is time to tax every single one of them!!!

I will go further and say pay up some back taxes. They been doing this for years.

They are definitely becoming way too political. It's time to tax them.

Shouldn’t states be able to do this?

Politick schmolitick, every religion’s places of worship should have to pay the same taxes as everyone else, every church, mosque, temple, all of em.

STOP GIVING THEM MONEY!

Hell yeah

It’s criminally ridiculous that the churches aren’t taxed, especially the ones that are owned by billionaires.

Imagine if we abolished them!!

Monitor the churches and $$$$ penalize them for stepping out of their religious boundaries. New job = church monitor

Oh look, they finished Stone Henge.

Amen

AMEN!!

Who are we saying this to? The Republican President, the Republican Senate, or the Republican House?

Now this I can get behind. The blind, sweeping generalizations that implicate all churches? No.

If they're bringing religion into schools , then they should bring the IRS to church

Churches, synagogues and mosques, too. Tax all religious entities

This…. 👍🏼

I will say my church has never brought up politics. I appreciate that. My brother was my pastor back in 2016-2017. Even I didn’t know which way he leaned. Glad to later learn during a siblings convo, it wasn’t RW.

Absolutely….especialky shiving themselves into oublic schools 😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡

I would add non-profits with endowments over 10 million and paying executives over $200k a year.

👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

If you even hint at politics from the pulpit… Actually, tax churches regardless.

Absolutely. They have engaged in political discourse and therefore should not be exempt. They are profitting off of the people. Just look at all the jets and houses and yachts they buy. They should be taxed!!!!

Been saying a version of that for decades.

Start with Scientology.

This meme was debunked

As a long time pastor, I can assure you that we pay taxes on our income. I absolutely agree that there must be a separation of church and state. Candidates for office should not be invited to speak at church services. Churches that violate this law should have their tax exemption removed.

Period!

That law is never enforced, so Christians just get away with meddling in elections.

All churches are scams. They should all pay taxes, most should be shut down.

Tax. Them. All.

Until they faint.

Absolutely

Every last one.

Seriously already 🤦😞

I mean the meme is inaccurate and shouldn’t be spread. It just makes people dumb. In no way would everyone have to only pay 3% taxes if we taxed churches - that makes no sense.

that ship has sailed

Can I just say that some churches aren’t political. My little church (75ish) runs a food pantry, a community dinner, a free store (organized in 2012, work in & fund) that by 2021 had given over 1 Mil items away. We have women volunteers that meet w/incarcerated women & we support our UMC missions. ☺️

Absolutely true.

Everyone in our shared society should be paying taxes. Government benefits all of us (someone should have alerted Ronald Reagan) and we should all pay our share.

#WILD

We could be like Italy... www.wtvq.com/italy039s-ch...

They want to shove the bible into public schools and throw a fit about people saying 'happy holidays'. I don't see them lobbying for programs to help the homeless, feed the hungry, medical care for all....you know, the Jesus things.

Amen 🙌🙏🙌

Absolutley

politicalamericans.com/speaker-mike...

Yo! 🖕🖕🖕, Mike!

Jesus would.

To feed the poor.

No. Jesus wouldn't have let the churches be tax-exempt. Give unto Caesar that which is Caesars. Jesus (allegedly, he's fictional) told people to pay their taxes.

Not only would he have tax the church he would have repo their Bentleys, Mercedes and BMW. Jesus Is Towing LLC. His slogan: “You’ve lost your way, so I’m towing you back to The Father”

Amen.

Did you know that “ministers of religion” also get to deduct their housing expenses?

Don't forget that many churches use funds to run hospitals, child care centers, food, pantries, social programs, and other aid. Shutting down these programs would cripple society long before any other organization, including the government, could step in to help.

No it wouldn’t. Charitable donations have always been tax exempt. If churches are spending on charitable causes, those expenses would still remain tax exempt.

Though if those costs were all deductible, probably they would have little or no income to tax.

But the tax that would most likely be evaluated would not be income, but rather property. And we don't want to fall into the trap of taxing all non-profit organizations. That defeats the purpose of non-profit organizations.

True, they are also exempt from property taxes right now. Those go to the states or counties, not the federal government. I agree, taxing the non-profits could defeat their purpose. This post is about churches and is really getting at the mega churches where the preachers tell folks how to vote.

And I agree with that point if churches are saying to vote for this or that politician.

Now they are slurping up >70% of vouchers for education in Republican states And don't get me started on the Catholic Health System... Tax their financial services.

Litte known fact. The reason churches aren't taxed is because the precedent set by Fascist Benito when the church was worried about it's standing in Italy. It was to quiet the fears of the fascist ideology of State above everything

Tax them after a certain yet to be determined threshold of income. That's how you get people on board with a proposal such as this.

Absolutely…but I highly doubt his Christian Nationalism fanbase will go for it.

Tax the church, tax billionaires & cut the bloated military to pay for free healthcare, free college and housing for all.

Amen to that!

Yes!

@eloncretinmusk

Damn right. And if you expect parishioners to tip your 'service' before they leave the church, you should be paying extra tax...

Amen

Same time lets tax the wealthy something reasonable again.

Wasn't there some saying about riches and getting into heaven? seems god and jesus weren't really about the accumulation of wealth, but many religions are. Just saying

I believe there are laws for this. The IRS (and I'm Canadian, so really, anyone can look this up), clearly states that in 1954 the Johnson Amendment (en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson...) prohibited the endorsing of political candidates. Branch Ministries v Rossotti upheld this. So, enforcement?

If the church promotes a candidate, tax em. If they don't, then give them tax credits based on thier local welfare contributions (building homeless shelters, food banks, etcm)

I recognize this is "socialism", dag-gummit, but Matt 19:16-30, Mark 10:17-31, and Luke 18:18-30 do seem to say Christ would not be pleased with 'Murican Christians.

Tax the mega churches. They’ve been preaching to vote republican since at least the 1970s. Nixon started this division with his Southern Strategy, to divide the blacks and hippies (protesters) from the “real” Americans. At the same time the very rich were making their plans, see 1972 Powell paper.

Totally agree! It’s rampant!

Agreed the wealth in religion is staggering

Especially for the fact they lie about helping people in their communities,they barely help people in the congregation,they fleece their flocks by tithing over half of their incomes,buying personal jets and mansions, expensive cars,yachts,organized religions are the biggest racket going,

Big time!

Agree.

BUT churches are too poor to contribute to clean water wells, until a year later, when they discover a 100 billion dollar plus rainy day fund. Let's be fair. Bailing out their mall and insurance company are more important. news-zw.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/elde...

Mormon Church has misled members on $100 billion tax-exempt investment fund, whistleblower alleges www.washingtonpost.com/investigatio...

❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

Remember when the Cult of $cientology infiltrated the IRS? Tax them all! Actually just ban them, they're all havens for sexual abuse.

Well, I'll see that politick and raise a protecktion. If you receive public benefit - roads, fire protection, police protection, storm drainage, education for your young, building/development code protections - you should pay taxes.

Tax the churches

Agreed, "if you politick from the pulpit". Taxing ALL churches is not the answer though. There are still churches out there that focus on good causes like social justice etc. and many are struggling to survive as congregants (especially rich conservative ones) have defected to "mega churches".

Charitable donations would still be tax exempt.

If you apply that logic, you’re saying taxes should be paid on all church offerings going towards operating expenses? Why do you think the government would be more efficient using money that I donate to my church? Smacks of government overreach.

It doesn’t smack of “government overreach”. There’s a reason why we all pay taxes. It funds our society. Roads, services, military, fire department, it all costs money.

Just saying that not everything needs to be funded by the federal government. Communities and community groups like churches are better placed to address many local needs and much more transparency into where those dollars go.

Not really. The only guarantee you have that the needs of your citizens will be met, is through government. You can’t just expect some agency or some philanthropist to just donate the money. There are literally no countries in the world where the public services are fully funded by philanthropy.

If churches are doing charitable work, it’s tax exempt anyway. If not, they are just running a business.

That doesn't math

Definitely the mega churches who make huge profits. I go to a little country church that maybe has an attendance of 20 on a good day. Our pastor doesn’t do politics. Let’s leave these little churches, who actually preach love like Jesus did, alone.

I doubt it would have any taxable income anyway because its expenses probably wipe out whatever it takes in

I hadn’t considered that however the slightly larger churches in my area that might make a few bucks use that money to help the less fortunate. Perhaps put a dollar amount limit on taxable income. You know like let’s make the richer folks and corporations pay more. That would be nice too.

All of that used for their regular expenses or to help others would presumably be deductible, as they are for an ordinary business (within reason. There are lots of exceptions for unreasonable items that cannot be deducted).

Excellent point!

How do we make this happen?

www.politifact.com/factchecks/2...

Yes. These leeches need to pay their fair share NOW!

And your ancestors and MAGA’s called us “savages.” A’ho! 🪶🙌🏽😡💔🧡👇🏽

Religion. The biggest scammer on the planet. Next to Elon. 🪶😡

Bet they don’t have a food bank for the poor but a best in jets and Italian sports cars

Churches violate the Johnson amendment bigly. Dark & dirty 💰flows through. #TaxTheChurches

📌

Come on man, read your replies before you repost something, you've had a good number of people tell you that the math on that is very wrong.

Those zeros....that's BILLIONS. At the very least identify the "religious organizations" currently set up to circumvent taxation while being focused on lobbying efforts. DOJ has had some success with this. With the Fascists in control, a blind eye to the corruption will become completely assured.

Yep. Them going to Hell is great and all but it doesn't fix OUR problems

Absolutely

All religious organizations should follow the same tax rules as any charitable organization has to.

If non profits paid taxes we wouldn’t need so many non profits.

My priest did and does. Not cool

But if they taxed the churches, how would Joel Osteen keep up with his opulent lifestyle?

Someone tell JD baptistnews.com/article/jd-v...

George Carlin had a great bit about this subject. I miss him.

In my opinion, I feel they should pay taxes whether they politick or not

Politicking or not. Tax them.

Even if they don’t, they should pay taxes.

This monstrosity is in my city. Imagine moving somewhere, driving to the store and THAT being in your path 😆

Absolutely!

As a 501c3 provision of tax exempt status for religious organizations, they cannot promote political activities. If they do, the IRS could revoke their status.....

501c3 Non-profits panic about even advocating generically for policies in their area of operations for fear of losing their tax exempt status. Churches should do the same

Yes! A million times yes!

Do they pay property tax, payroll tax, income tax, sales tax at all?

If you preach politics from the pulpit in violation of the Constitution, you should lose your status as a church.

Are donations to the church tax deductible? Maybe that needs looking at. It’s not a charity if they (churches) aren’t spending it all on housing and feeding people (and their pets).

On that subject… 👇🏼 bsky.app/profile/tobi...

The Catholic Church and LDS own a lot of for-profit endeavors. I’ll grant them deductions for charitable stuff. But if they have billions they’re investing for profit, then hell yeah, tax that shite!

#TaxAllChurches

#WILD

If you politick from the pulpit, you might be a cult.

If you have 230,000 followers you should fact check your posts. 😡

With HR9495 - They want to take the rights away from nonprofits like the NAACP, ACLU, and Planned Parenthood, but churches can continue to break the law?! www.texastribune.org/2022/10/30/j...

They are not churches. They are religious based corporations. Selling a service. And should pay taxes

How about any non-profit that makes over 100M gets their admin taxed. That way they don't feel singled out and good orgs that use their money on people can still be good.

Make them pay their taxes

Yep

I’m hoping this is why some Dems voted for that non-profit bill. I could make a case for churches being terrorist organizations!

You can’t post that on Facebook. They mark it as fake thank goodness for blue sky.

Truth! Happened to me, too!

No. They should lose their status as a church. Taxing them would give them precedent to overturn separation of Church and State, and this SCOTUS would let them.

Both churches and republicans have been trying to overturn the separation of church and state for eons already.

And we can't let them do any more damage.

Excellent point. I think people are saying what they think will achieve the same outcome but you sliced this onion perfectly

Taxing churches would colse a lot of smaller ones, leaving only the multi millionaire churches and the cults that have church status like Scientology. That would help no one. They want to get rid of the Separation of Church and state which is a foundational principle of our government & Constitution

But losing your status as a church means you could be taxed - isn’t that going to have the same outcome? Oh I see: lose their status equally so big churches close too. Tracking.

I don’t know how you do it without running up against the right to free speech though. The First Amendments religious freedom test is about government action - establishment/free exercise - not the churches.

We aren't limiting their ability to practice their religion. We would just be enforcing the Constitution. No one's religious beliefs are allowed to inform our laws or government per the 1A.

But their free speech? I don’t think any existing laws restrict churches from talking politics, and I don’t know how you would enforce such a law without infringing on the free exercise. The first amendment does restrict the government from talking religion (for now anyway)

1A means that the government can’t tell churches what they can say, it’s true. The tax break is for charitable, non-political organizations. When an org becomes political, the tax status should be reviewed.

Whelp: apnews.com/article/b071...

Yes I agree and in fact am part of a nonprofit and am deeply aware of this prohibition. The question is how do you structure this to withstand a 1A challenge? And how do you enforce it?

I agree that it’s a perversion of the 1A and a naked abuse of the pulpit by the GOP. But I am also thinking of the Rev MLK Jr., and liberation theology (granted in South America but in principle)

What would be the test for losing status as a church?

I'm against any religion being brought into our government. Politicians need to leave their religious beliefs at the door. White supremacy is part of religion in many cases as well.

Free speech has limits. That includes what churches can say when it comes to politics. The Founders were very clear that Separation of Church and State is a foundational principle of our Constitution and government.

Yes, for certain. The trick is in enforcing and defining the limits they cannot cross. If a Catholic priest says abortion is a sin, is that political or religious?

I agree, greed always upset me. I said “my house shall be called a house of prayer,' but you make it a den of robbers.”

EvenThe Y, aka Young Mens Christian Assoc. is a religious non profit. I used to work for one. In a branch office. The director came down to my office-said he had to find forms to file & fax. We were in danger of losing our non profit status because we made too much money for the year.1/2

We had daycare & after care at the grammar schools. Dec was annual donations. We had a popularJan ski program paid for in Dec. Our branch & the main office took In $5 million! Think they used it to hire qualified people to care 4 the kids? Many stole, some were cruel to others & sexual harassment 2

Totally, but we’ll have to wait at least 4 years for this fight

Whether or not churches pay taxes still wont grant them access to our political fora. Religion was kept out on purpose, by design. We are a constitutionally secular nation and will remain that way.

I'm sure the DOGE gang will focus on this. Right? Oh.

Tax. Those. Fuckers. 🙏🏻🙏🏻

The Johnson Amendment- A charitable nonprofit may “not participate in, or intervene in (including the publishing or distributing of statements), any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office."

I still say no. They don't tax representation. Yes people in politics are a part of the places, the places should not get a vote.

But, can we regulate tithing?

As an atheist, I think churches should be taxed. But as an observer of the real world, Black Churches will be targeted while Predatory Evangelical Prosperity Gospel rackets will get a pass.

It may take decades or longer, but at some point, hopefully people will wake up and realize the con.

That's enough money to feed the world for two years. Or, fight a war for a few days.

Small churches can't afford it. They mostly worry about stuff like fixing their roofs. As long as they don't get political, no problem. But those mega churches are just cash cows for unscrupulous millionaires.

💙

IRS Form 13909, report them www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromo...

When the pastor's house looks like this, they should be paying taxes.. even if they stay out of politics..

Yes.

I’m agnostic so I never go to church. BUT I respect those who believe. Regardless if church is in politics? Yes pls tax.. if not? Not a good idea, BUT how will one know.🤔

They should pay taxes regardless if they weighed in on politics. Churches are businesses.

Businesses? How do they make money, exactly? Most normal churches are struggling. Most normal churches provide a lot of social support and volunteer hours. There are those churches who grift and scam, but that isn't most.

What you keep failing to understand is that it doesn't matter if 'most' churches do things correctly. If they do things correctly, then they can itemize their charitable deductions like other businesses do.

They are not businesses. They are not making money nor trying to profit.

Of course they are trying to profit. How much varies greatly, just like with other businesses. www.theologyofbusiness.com/why-most-chu...

"How much varies greatly" is correct. There are some things in the article which are fine, and other things aren't. He says average attendance is 162, then shows a picture from a church with staff that size as an example of a business-like church--not so average, then.

There are plenty of other resources. Don’t deliberately miss the point: The way churches operate is a business, whether it’s large or small. They can be taxed accordingly.

Okay. I won't belabor the points. It's been a good, relevant, discussion. I would much rather go after the ultra-rich by not renewing Trump's 1st term tax cuts. I will also say that I am appalled at the behavior of some "Christians". WTF Mike Johnson?

Completely agree. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and being gracious.

It's great to feel safer doing so here than at that other place. Heaven vs. Hell? 😜

Well, one difference between churches and other non-profits: Other non-profits have some sort of benevolence at the heart of their purpose; churches are, at the heart, worshipping communities first, and benevolence is a result of their faith.

Any other charity that ate up 90% of donations in 'administrative costs' would be considered a failure by most people.

We managed to interact on two different threads. I am abandoning this one. I'll chat tomorrow on the other.

www.theologyofbusiness.com/why-most-chu...

This 💯

Yes. I have no idea who my pastors voted for. I can guess based on my personal knowledge of them, but I do not know. This is how it should be.

I agree. Plus, any church who refuses to open their doors during a crisis or doesn't do charitable work within the community should be fined, taxed at higher rate or dissolved. I've had it. They need to be held accountable for skirting the rules & trying to impose their religion on the populous.

When did it become impossible for churches to build simple buildings? So much of the money is tied up in massive loans for ornate constructions I can't help but think that banks enjoy churches' tax-exempt status just as much as the churches do

I initially was against tax the church. The church of my youth never talked about politics, never swayed us toward an individual and really did help the needy. My church was poor as well as their parishioners. But, any church that incorporates politics into their agendas MUST be taxed.

This is better than the other post, but who determines what constitutes politicking? Churches should be able to advocate for policy consistent with their beliefs.

That and mega churches. There’s no reason a church should look like a mansion and the preacher live in an actual mansion. #TaxTheChurch

Unless you are a Billionaire, of course..

Churches were political during the 2024 campaign. Tax all of them.

All the religious institutions for that matter. Leave none behind

$71B is not enough for everyone to be able to reduce down yo 3%. But it is a lot! Churches get income and people get to write that off for tax purposes. It’s a double whammy

That's how it should be legally, anyway. If my vicar preaches politics we'll lose our non tax status. It's funny how some "churches" can get away with it and some can't .

There is a way to report violations anonymously (I've done it): ffrf.org/legal/report...

I've been "preaching" this for 20 years!

I wish we could.

Absolutely!

this is another cultural battle they can't wait to have this and private schools will be huge

Religious institutions are all a bunch of corrupt shysters protecting their business anyway..

If they can pass a bill that allows Trump to take away a np org’s tax status on a whim, then yes, tax the churches. The tax exempt rules were broken yrs ago.

Or if you run Turning Point USA.