just because your an artist doesn't mean you understand animation or animation productions you aren't privy too. I'm fucking sick of people who aren't as knowledgeable in something, talking for 3 hours about it like they are a master. It is in fact annoying to us actually doing it. jus sayin.
you need to get a grip and realize not everyone is going to like what you make and it’s unrealistic to set that expectation. this is highly unprofessional from a creator as big as yourself.
There isn't a recipe to fit it all. Methodologies and well known processes help, but every project differ, variations need to be addressed. One cannot criticize another profesional without really knowing in deep what's going on. Working on the same field doesn't make one a godly eminence 😅
at the end of the day, it's just parasocial jealousy. "why dont I have a show but SHE does?!"
I don't think it's jealousy. I think it's more so arrogance.
I think deep down, we all want our own shows. Problem with mine is it's like if Helluva Boss and JoJo's Bizarre Adventure had a strange lovechild, but Doctor Who was the godparent. My setting/characters ideas are less than original--hence one of many reasons it will not come to be, others, however-
I mean, I kind of would not mind seeing that. And I don't think you have to worry too much about originality if I am personally honest
Aww, thank you! The rewritten is superior, but im slow to rewrite (thank you procrastination). Feel free to leave any reccomendations! archiveofourown.org/works/62100211
I'd watch it, I love all those things
*me getting my ideas affirmed by strangers on the internet:*
*me having self-affirmed my own ideas and working on them, but also helping to affirm other people's ideas to spread the creativity and help grow their dreams into reality*
Wait that actually goes hard
Oh shit for real?? There's *some original characters (about 20). The story is supposed to be 100 chapters long into 4 parts, 1st and 4th are 20 and 3nd and 3rd are 30. It's a complicated story with some fluidity, moreso story but there is a smidgen of smut sprinkled in--cause yeah, Helluva.
Autocorrect has failed me. 2nd and 3rd parts for 30 is what I meant. There's art for some oc's. Honestly it's tough to try and balance the trio: Helluva's adult themes and humor, the absurd nature of JoJo, and the whimsical Doctor Who. Reminds me, whitty banner between Blitzø and Joseph.
Sorry im just really fricking excited, it's outstanding when someone you don't know goes 'hey that's neat' and it's like all my hyperfixations rolled up in one
I love Doctor Who and Helluva so that’s such a cool combo!
Thank you! The first part focuses more on that dynamic, so it may be your favorite--when the whole thing is finished in like...10 years at this rate with my dumbass. Oh, and a little heads up, the story is set 14 years after the end of Helluva Boss (cause M&M fan kid). I'm assuming helluva ends--
Like a year each for future season, so their kid will be about 14-15. Mostly everything else gets explained in the story itself. I uh...may need to rewrite the 2nd part as well, just less. Kinda made a monumentious mistake towards the middle of the story xc
Unearned arrogance, coupled with bigotry and envy? You’re onto something. It’s narcissism.
I write scripts. That’s my jam. Can’t do jack with animation software (ironic), but I can write the hell out of a script of a story I’ve had in my head since I was 4.
I bought a How To Draw Manga book and read nearly half of it, I think I know what I’m talking about
Viv. I appreciate you as a creator and your work. But this isn't it. And I'm disappointed to see this kind of vague behavior. :( Please be better than this. Honestly this isn't any better than how the chronically online people dunk on you. Don't be like that...
I understand the defense and pride for your work and characters, but this kind of behavior and vagueness is just unnecessary. Relax.
"I read a wikipedia article"
Or the artists who have only done animation for their OCs but do not actually WORK in said field. Like I'm happy for you baby, but that doesn't put you in the know. You simply have a hobby on the more technical side.
and how do you get to "the know?"
For starters don't tear apart every piece of fiction you don't agree with under the "I can do better" argument because if someone does see your potential, they're gonna look into you. And when they see how you act about the field they proooobably won't even look at you again. Impressions matter.
I tried to animate a simple walk cycle once, it took about 3 frames for the dude I drew to lose all sense of volume and kinda melt into a walking-shaped blob. As far as I'm concerned, animation is some kind of arcane wizardry
do it again with stickfigures and some height guidelines it might help a bit
Pretty sure that person is a professional character designer and animator with a degree from Calarts. If I’m wrong, someone correct me.
they do! in the video they even share what theyve worked on after they got their degree
they've literally been to a party at vivs' house before, apparently, and yet viv is so adverse to criticism that she didn't realise she's lying about someone who has probably pissed in her toilet lmao
People love to pontificate about things they don't really understand lol
Viv….. Ily, I been a fan of you since I was in highschool but girl…. This ain’t it. :(
It is wild. I first saw her work back in 2015 when she was still active on Tumblr with Zoophobia and I waited for the day when Hazbin would be released. But after being blocked by her on Twitter, even though I supported her for all these years, it feels like a huge slap in the face. Be better viv.
I do digital art. I DON'T animate because of precisely this. 1 still image is far different than drawing 1000's + repositioning + synchronization + whatever else.
I do understand. I love your work
Yeah and it's not just animation, some people seem to think they know how film making or game development works when really they don't have the slightest clue
I understand I enjoy watching your animation. That is the extent of my expertise.
Aw I liked that 3 hr video :( they had 5 years of experience and were so kind about the criticism.
its almost like she cant take criticism no matter how much the person tries to hold her hand about it
Forgot to add the artist has a degree in the field AND experience in the working formal industry. At least do your research before throwing a tantrum online. Genuinely: be better. Stop acting like a child when your work is formally critiqued, if you can’t take the heat step out of the art kitchen.
She made one (1) post calling it annoying. How is that a tantrum? I'd say the dozens of people using this post as an excuse to harass her are doing worse
Also to add if people voicing their opinions that how she is taking critique is immature counts as harassment , then literally every single artist before her has been harassed in their lifetime. She made a post on a public platform, people responding on said platform cannot be deemed as harassment.
You are deliberately framing the way people express those opinions ina disonest light
Elaborate. Even if there are toxic haters taking this out of proportion that does not mean that her post was right. And by no means am I myself going to her dms or actually harassing her myself so please elaborate.
The way you worded your comment implied you were trying to downplay hate by saying people were just "criticizing her on a public plataform", when most hate would fall under that definition
Final reply : open your mind and stop defending something that is very clearly negative and has been done before by her , you may not know; but she did the same thing on twitter constantly in regards to multiple smaller creators , demeaning them as ‘keyboard warriors’ with no experience in art.
"she did the same thing on twitter constantly in regards to multiple smaller creators" Or maybe, just maybe, she was talking about the keyboard warriors and people with nefarious intentions deliberaly take what she said out of context
i gave you an explanation with evidence of her history of unprofessionalism/immaturity. you ignored it. viv created a false narrative to make herself look better. you ignored it. viv's fans sent hate/toxicity to this artist due to viv's vagueposting. the mental gymnastics is wild. please elaborate.
You showed evidence of Viv being reasonable, yes The best play would be if she was able to ignore the people engaging in bad faith, like you, but at no point did you show any evidence of she being rude to anyone
“ I'm fucking sick of people who aren't as knowledgeable in something, talking for 3 hours about it like they are a master.” that’s rude. That’s demeaning to the artist she is talking about. It’s literally right in the post dude.
It is a bit rude, but she is right they aren't knowlegeable about the production of her shows
Also see how you downplay the actual fact that what she is doing is rude, you admit that it’s a ‘bit’ rude. She’s demeaning a smaller artist and pushing off criticism as if it means nothing . That is insanely immature activity for a woman of her status and age. Take accountability
I think its not a big deal that she was slightly rude when she named no names and her complaint was reasonable when she has been the victim of harassment for years by bad faith actors like you
except the artist actually knows what she is talking about as she has the beyond enough of experience for a proper critique, which viv wanted in the post. she's a calarts graduate with 5 years of experience in multiple projects. the fact that viv said the opposite speaks volumes about her ignorance.
Is the artist privy to how Splinderhorse productions work?
This is not Vivs first time pushing off critique as ‘hate’ , she has a record of constantly demeaning other artists simply because those artist critiqued her work. She is also an artist with a massive platform vague posting about a smaller artist which in itself is insanely immature.
At no point does she call it hate, just annoying And what actually happens is that people harass and hate on viv, and then turn arround and pretend it was "criticism"
within the means of this discussion , no one is harassing we are responding on a public platform to a post that she made herself vague posting about a respectful smaller artist who simply critiqued her design work within HH .
You brought up things outside the scope of just this thread, so I responded to that
Sure, but even then within the guides of the actual context of THIS discussion , she is still in the wrong , point blank period . Everything I have said thus far still stands.
Click on my prof for more of my replies in this thread 😜 it def doesn’t end with their response
Oh, so the person behind the vídeo a actually has knowledge of the production of Hazbin and Helluva? If not, then Viv isn't really in the wrong for calling then out for that
The video in reference is ACTUAL criticism, the op actually even praises viv a few times in the vid as well . Stop doing mental gymnastics to avoid holding this grown woman accountable for her immaturity. And many videos before she has also vague posted about were respectful criticisms. (1/2)
Then what makes you think those are the ones I was talking about?
Dude. We are literally discussing in the comment section of the post regarding the specific video made by Meppity . If you are discussing other issues then I fear you are being avoidant and have lost the plot.
You were the one who brpught up other issues by going "it's not the first time Viv [thing she didn't do]" Literally just read the thread again
I’m honestly so done with people pretending that REDESIGN isn’t just criticism and bullying. If they really love REDESIGN that much, then I’m more than happy to “respectfully” write a few thousand words redesigning their OCs. Anyone open to some friendly advice from me?
turning a blind eye to viv's unprofessionalism isn't cute. she is a grown adult that needs to stop acting like a child for every single comment/video made about her. she needs to act like an adult and either consider the criticism or to ignore it, not to spread lies about another artist. 💖
I agree it would be better if she was able to just ignore it, but blaming her for being defensive after several years of nonstop harassment is just unfair
Not a shocker but from knowing what video you are posting about , they gave genuine pretty well rounded critique that I found useful as an art-student . They also have a degree in the field they are talking about so not some ‘rando twitter person’ . This response is incredibly childish and immature.
I'm a writer and I don't understand song writing lol
From my daughter, "How did you even get here? How of all people did you get funded? Oh that's right, by other people you threw under the bus for you're own benefit. You do not deserve your position, you abuse it & use it for your own gain. You are NOT the future of animation. You are a disgrace."
the video you’re “vague posting” about is full of TONS of incredible artistic pointers and information. to act like this in response is wildly disheartening and disrespectful.
What happened to “artists supporting artists”? Especially in times of AI, massive layoffs and cancellations by big studios! smh
Viv is successful so she probably doesn't give a shit.
It's really hard pill to swallow to, considering how much it put indie animation on Youtube on the map. She's probably inspired millions of young artists wanting to get in the industry, but she just punches down instead of inspring others to be as succesful as her.
hmm? what makes you say that? indie animation was already popular (ahem, animation vs Minecraft, RWBY, asdfmovie), y'all only called it indie animation when people started making pilots, and I'm 100% sure animator vs animation has inspired just as many artists to animate.
I watched things like AVM first, before Hazbin Hotel, but I feel Hazbin's pilot was what gave indie animation it's genre, and really expanded it into what most see it as today. This makes Hazbin the pioneerer, I don't necessarily agree that Viv was the first big indie animator but she got-
ig she is one of the important people, but I'm lowk fukin tired of people who say indie animation wouldn't exist without her (and glitch). Popularizing web animation only goes so far, as artists inspired by literally anything else will gravitate towards the internet for resources to animate.
so making use of that and championing their artistic growth, while making animation fun and easier (which is what certain communities do), is what truly does change indie animation. Hyuns dojo, flipnote, sakuga foundry, etc, they're responsible for 50% of the webgen era of animators.
webgen animators are some of the most talented batch of animators ever, and they got there due to the various resources out there on the internet, some joining those big communities. I think that does a slight bit more than making a popular indie show.
I am a firm believer that indie animation doesn’t just stop at Vivizepop and Glitch there are so many other creators big and small that came before and after both. Supporting indie animation includes everyone who creates animation without a studio.
people talking.
I think the more indie creators are around the more people will realize Hazbin and Helluva are VERY awkward first steps. I mean you can see it already.
It’s true that Viv’s path hasn’t been an easy one—especially when you consider that most indie artists only ever release a pilot and then go right back to delivering pizzas after it airs.
as if! they weren't first steps, stuff like RWBY existed beforehand, those are indie shows that were seen to fruition before hazbin hotel. In reality, I'd say it's marketable and efficient steps, because it convinced y'all it was the best thing to ever come out of indie animation back then.
Yea that's why I try to look up to GLITCH and various other indie creators.
I’m sure the creator of TADC learned a lot from Viv. And if you can’t even recognize that, then honestly, your ability to learn is pretty disappointing.
Probably, but I don’t work behind the scenes. I just said that I look up to my other indie animators, rather than Viv.
Because no one should support Viv since she killed their grandma or brought a plague unto their houses or something.
I actually don’t hate Viv, but she has a knack for responding to any criticism / anything remotely against her work in an immature way. I feel she needs to either stay off social media and work on her shows, or get a PR team because this a bad look whether you like Hazbin or not.
Probably doesn't help that most of the criticism she gets can easily be boiled down to racism or sexism or homophobia or jealousy over a queer WOC creator who was once a cringy teenager on DA becoming a successful cartoon creator while they're stuck to never be as famous.
That is true (and high key needs to stop). But criticism she was referring to in the OG post was constructive and was good faith.
"No! I know more than you even though I never once animated at all! I watched cinnamon bins im an animation and movie god!!" All the idiots
Nope, blocking weirdoes that hate on viv lol
God are we talking about the 3 hour bullshit brigade of 'redesigns' cause I could not even stomach the intro. It was so just... Egotistical. Like congrats you took some art classes that doesn't give you a high ground to preach for 3 goddamn hours.
Not only have they graduated an art college but they work in many actual mainstream industries ..they have 5+ yrs of actual experience in both design and animation . Research before you jump on the hate train,it’s gen okay to receive critique in the art industry it’s all apart of the process
and why doesent the art degree give them the right to share their own thoughts on media ?
I never said art degree. I said 'taking a few art classes' that isn't the same thing. There is far too many 19/20 somethings who take a single art course and act like they know everything.
...they graduated from calarts
wow. a week has passed and i got over 30 responses... who knew this one reply would turn into this haha
To be fair, they didn't say that artist didn't have the right, they said it didn't give them the high ground.
Lmao, YOU sound so arrogant. Viv's fandom is full of cunts that I find political groups friendly at this point. The immaturity between y'all is insane. Children are more mature than all of you at this point.
They’ve worked in the animation industry for 5 years and graduated from Cal Arts
..maybe let's watch more than 30 seconds into a video next time, okay? if you had actually watched the video (~3 mins in), you would know that she is an actual professional artist with years of experience in the art field. instead of blindly listening to viv, maybe let's create an original thought!
as a side note, she never once bashed or spread toxicity towards viv throughout the video. only polite and valid constructive criticism was present that you fail to realize due to your pure ignorance of the situation. i suggest stop being a sheep and do your own research before inserting yourself!
Animation is not easy. I can't even art and I barely understand things like smear frames, and skipped frames. Let alone details like how to blend backgrounds while still keeping them animated.
I mean, I’m working on a Indie animation using Animation Cels and sometimes I don’t understand animation so yeah
Animation and game design major here. I feel that pain, if they don't know the process of how long it takes to do in-betweens, key framing, then scrubbing back and forth to make sure that nothing is messed up and they should stay in their lane.
Hey so.. there’s a thing called “actually watching the video” because I know exactly what video you’re talking about and they’ve actually been in the industry! Also.. none of what they said was negative.. it was actual constructive criticism that doesn’t bash or insult your work.
And another thing? John Fountain, who’s been in the industry WAY longer, has praised Vivziepop’s designs. Does he not count?
Sure, John Fountain’s opinion is valid, but art is subjective. Just because one industry pro likes her designs doesn’t mean everyone has to. Praise doesn’t erase criticism, and one person’s taste isn’t the final word.
Then why are you treating her tastes like it is the final word?
I’m not.. her taste isn’t the final word, just like Fountain’s isn’t. I’m pointing out that it’s misleading to frame someone’s harmless, good-faith video as an attack when they like the show and made redesigns for fun.
Given that A: most redesigns have been made in bad faith and B; this is the THIRD Hazbin redesign video this particular person has made. Can you really blame Viv for reacting so negatively? For making those assumptions?
Oh shit this is the 3rd time they done this??? Id be annoyed too tf lmao
They were redesigning for fun
Doesn’t mean she has to agree with every bit of criticism that comes her way. Also I DID watch the video and those redesigns were terrible. Ugly, uninspired, and generally misses the point of every character. Especially Niffty, their Niffty redesign was horrible.
She literally said in the video the redesigns were just for fun and wouldn’t look like that if it were official. Viv doesn’t have to agree, but vagueposting to paint it as bad faith is misleading.
Idk man, being an artist, any unasked for critic is annoying regardless if the advice is good or not. And imma be real the redesign were not "easier to animate" esp not when they gave angel mandibles. They'd be just as annoying in some regards as the ig designs are to animate
To add on.. how about.. you just ignore it because quite honestly it’s sad that you’re this pissy over redesigns.
why yall are praising this one YouTuber and acting like viv is so cruel to not hear them out when she is not obligated to hear them nor does she have to agree with them.
nor should she send her fans after them and publically complain about it despite not watching the video
It's been a month, dude. Why are you talking to me.
Yes because you can read her mind through the screen and know exactly which vid shes talking about (っ ̯ - )
The sarcasm is so polite thanks! But yeah- I might not but It’s heavily implied with the “3 hours”, there’s one video that recently came out that got very popular and is that long. Can’t read minds but I do know what context clues are.
genuinely hurts my brain watching the sheep mentality of people replying with no context being like, "haha, stupid person who knows nothing of animation critiquing animation and art. " meanwhile she graduated calarts actively works in the animation industry and has literally been inside vivs house
Yeah! She even says she LIKES the show!! She admitted that her past designs were flawed and that she thought she could improve upon her work (which she made as a teen) she just picked hazbin hotel because it was the easiest example she could use to portray that.
but fans just like to have a strawman to hate, and that's what vivs provided with this false claim, and now the horde can't be stopped 😞
Real.. Context clues and basic research is a lost art sadly :( (I understand not wanting to watch a 3 hour video.. but cmon man- is it that hard to skim it and/or read the comments?)
and obviously that rule applies to viv herself as she obviously read the video title saw the click baity thumbnail and got pressed and just assumed it was bad faith and made by someone who knows nothing about nada when it comes to animation which is disproven within the first 30 minutes 😮💨
The amount of times I've been irritated glimpsing some idiot on either tumblr or twitter "criticizing" either HH or HB and think they know better just cause they can do some decent artwork goes beyond the fingers on my hands. 😑 I mean the pure egotistic, entitled, stupidity of it all!
3 hour video and it's the exact same regurgitated shit 20 other people have said, if they could think for themselves they might actually be able to make a good point 💀💀
I watched YouTube videos from the master critics, I know more about animation than anyone working in animation does!
Hate or just give your answer to people like that?
I'm making fun of people who genuinely believe they know more about a field than those working in it.
Oh, you´re right
Yeah...its like a person who does first aid criticizing emergency/first responders thinking they know more than those that do this for a living (in the case of the medical responders, that's a double entendre)
Yeah, i understand
Pretty sure they're being sarcastic
very much Sarcasm, Brush is basically mocking people online who think they know so much just cause they saw a few videos from supposed well known critics that think they know the ins and outs
you´re right
I don't know how it feels to animate stuff save for the two or three times I did it for my 3D modeling class, but based on that, I can safely say that the process can be an immense headache.
but I made a video called why ‘hazzbin hotel suxx balls’ and it got 3 shitbillion views clearly i know what im talking about
The video Viv is vague-posting about is actually respectful and isn't necessarily even shitting on her show overall. Maybe don't suck off your favourite creator every time they post smth... Just sayin
All from equally stupid douchebags.
@vivziepop.bsky.social Hey, Viv. No need to get upset. I love your work. I just don’t want people getting upset on how you act. Here, tell you what: Could we please talk about some Helluva Boss Ideas I wanna suggest to you on DM, please?😁
The comment section here just proves that so many people want an excuse to look down at others like they have some moral authority
Literally I've even done animations before and I still don't understand industry animation on the same level as someone whose actively in productions and projects. Maybe I'm missing the yeti mic tho 🤷
Thinking about redesigns claiming to be animation friendly but giving Angel mandibles again 😔
Whadaya mean you don't do the three-finger flip anymore? WHAT THE HELL HAS GOTTEN INTO KIDS THESE DAYS!
The many people must learn from you what is real good animation Viv , you have great team
I had the same big problem with people who have no idea about drawing and don't know how difficult and serious animation is, such people are the worst who don't understand this business. Art is a serious craft through which you mature, grow and develop your skills and talent.
Vivzie I don’t think it’s right to downgrade their efforts of becoming an artist and their knowledge. Their video wasn’t ill intended and very educational in many aspects. As artists we should accept there always will be room for development.
Yeah, don't talk about something you don't understand like you're an expert.
I used to do and pratice animation and make animation videos with Flip-a-Clip when I was a kid and it was a huge thing at the time, so I partly understand the struggles when it comes to working on an animation Been years since I last made a Flip-a-Clip animation lol Nowadays, I sit back and-
-watch the professionals put every drop of their blood, sweat, and tears and put all their time and love into something amazing ♥️♥️
Honeybunch you are valid in your frustration, however others are also valid to have opinions and perspectives of their own. Just try to not let yourself doomscroll hate posts. All it does is give you wrinkles 💕
It's the Dunning & Kruger effect at its finest: to be so incompetent in smth that you think you're competent 🤌
The odd thing is, in this day and age, if anyone wants to know about a production (NDA's notwithstanding), they can just ask...
I'm sure the artist is 100% privy to animation because she stated multiple times that she has (she even went to fucking collage for it) .And Vivienne for the love of god please start acting like the 30 year old you actually are. You're not 16 anymore.
I just realized you totally didn't watch the fucking video this makes so much more sense now
It's amazing she is older than me. Just what the fuck man.
I understand your frustration, but you aren't a random Tumblr artist anymore Viv, you should not just blow up and vague blog people like this with the size your platform and reach has grown. Please People are gonna make their critic, bad faith or otherwise, you just gotta let it slide.
Also the video was not mean to her of course they made fair criticism of designs but still was coming from a love of an artist and she even said she liked the show but I just feel like vivziepop doesn't like criticism at all which really sucks because good faith criticism can help a lot
Someone tried to argue that the animation is done first and then the VAs record their lines to match the mouth movements. I told them that's how dubbing anime works but not how animation works. They doubled down, saying I was wrong.
This is the dumbest thing I've heard today.
They were so sure of themselves.
Even I know they VA first and idk shit
you were completely right though, audio always comes first. dubbing is an exception because that's another language dubbed over existing footage.
They made me question my sanity for a moment, but I knew I was correct. I studied film and was obsessed with the animation process (Disney) when I was a child.
It's the same in any profession.
I actually found a lot the poster’s criticism to be valid. Also, they aren’t “just an artist”. They work in animation and have a degree from CalArts. They are a professional in character design. It’s not just someone hating, it’s someone who genuinely has a passion for the show and animation.
you missed the entire point of the post tho even if they work in the industry they aren't involved in the project
Yes, but Viv didn’t just say the project. She made a direct implication in her post that the poster has no idea what they are talking about/aren’t a professional, when the poster is in fact a graduate from CalArts and has worked in animation. Their critiques come from a professional standpoint
No you see,is not about the animation,is about me and my moral superficial high horse,I have to tell creators how to do it the right way,why you won't lisent and let me own your work for your own good?How close minded.How would others know how to interpret any creative work without my specifications
Also let me show you how to make your characters designs the right way with my phosphorescent stick figures that also always imitate anime eyes...I hate them so much xD
For what it’s worth Viv I’ve seen people who are artists who talk about your show in a positive light, I know one guy who uses his reaction stream to highlight different animation techniques he notices and explain to the chat where those techniques originated from in old films its quite educational
It was tbskyen just to let you know
I knew you were talking about him and I'm kinda happy I got confirmation on it 😁 I loved how much he gushed about Robofizz' animations
I think I’ve seen him before and it’s great analysis from what I’ve seen!
Shout-out to TBSkyen's meltdown and subsequent descent into madness over the rotating shot on Stolas during Mastermind. Him gushing over Aven's masterful attention to detail for 30+ minutes followed by calling them a hand pervert (affectionately) for nailing the hand motions still makes me cackle.
TBSkyren is such a good reactor. I sit through his four hour videos, no problem. Omn1media is great, too. He has a very good emotional read on the characters.
What did you think of the new #Superman movie Viv?
I never understood the point of redesigns. It just feels like nothing more but disrespect to the original creator. If you don't think a design is good enough, go make a spinoff unrelated to the original.
The vid itself is actually very respectful all throughout. Redesigns can be a fun exercise, and in the case of the vid on question, a great learning tool. It's one thing when people go redesign out of hate. It's another when it's done for the love of the craft.
If you love the craft then just design something new?? Or if you actually do like the original designs but want to play with them for fun, make an AU? Just the term "redesign" sounds like "this isn't good enough, so I'm making it better".
It’s one thing to redesign some artist’s work without permission, but this isn’t just some artist anymore. They are official designs of a professional animated production, it’s anyone’s god given right to say “this sucks, I’ll do it better” lol
Yeah, they have a right to. And Viv has a right to be annoyed by it. What's your point
Well what’s your point then? Saying ppl should just do something completely new instead? Wtv I don’t care enough, have a nice day bro
Word, I once watched Some Guy TM try to explain basic thermodynamics to...get this...an astronaut. A real live astronaut who was talking about her last space mission. Idk where some people get their audacity from but they need to put it back lol
💯 if someone doesn't have full knowledge about making art animation editing then that person needs to keep their mouths close and learn from people who have years of knowledge.
God everyone is a character design genius these days. I remember when people used to pixelate images full of Hazbin characters and complain they melded together like that was an actual fucking critique. Guess who a single one of the characters in these images are, I dare you.
One of my biggest hates with that. and to be clear I'm not a professional animator or even hardly an artist I just like making stuff for fun. But so often when people do behind the scenes stuff to show how it's done 80% of the process is never shown or acknowledged. most people know maybe 10%.
What? You mean people are NOT automatically an expert in something just because they do said something? 😱
Reminder to block the antis , do not engage with them! They are everywhere in this giant fuck ass thread
The entire Medical and Scientific Communities: "You're preaching to the choir here. But please, for everything's sake, KEEP PREACHING GIRL!" 🧪🔬🔭📡🏥 P.S. For what it's worth, I've honestly learned way more than I ever imagined, by following you and others from @spindlehorsetoons.bsky.social 🫶😈
It’s a sad aspect of this world where people feel the need to stick their nose into everything they want even when they themselves aren’t knowledgeable on it. It’s almost like these people say something when nothing needs to be said in the first place.
Agreed @vivziepop.bsky.social a lot of people are just to condescending to think they know animation just due to them being an artist. When animation takes along time, hard work and patience. 🙌
I'd be happy to learn under your guys' tutelage...
For the people in the back! 😁🙌
The issue with some people is how pretentiously smug they are. Thinking that they know better than anyone.
Well I watch a video about the animation process to storyboard to the color to clean up, more. Oh gosh, I was wrong I always thought it was an easy process because how it is successful but knowing how it works behind the scene shows a light about how you are, after I was patient with shows since-
At the end of the day we couldn't got the shows that we love
This drives me up a wall 😭 and they always talk over and ratio artists/animators
The person that she is referencing (Meppity) is a literal animator who directed and animated in many small animated films so she knows what the industry is like but also Meppity likes the show and also gives Fair criticism which is good without being mean
Less than 4 minutes into her 3 hr video she says, “While I do severely dislike the show,”
and later in said video, she interupts the video in the middle of editing it to say she no longer dislikes the show.
One thing I always do when I sincerely change my mind mid-production is not share this revelation in the intro where I summarize the past *6 yrs* of my opinion and the next *3 hrs* of the video. That’s just too much effort and not worth it for something I like now, you know?
She can sincerely like the show now—great! It just means she’s either bad at editing (which I find hard to believe) or intentionally doing a bait and switch. But most likely, like most videos like this, this is engagement farming & her opinion is whatever generates a buzz. Which, again, you do you!
We love using quotes out of context to make someone look bad! A true mark of maturity and good research /s
I invite you to also consider why someone would make a 3hr vid ADDING to a self-described ill-conceived critique they made *before* any schooling, “for ed purposes,” about a show they “severely dislike.” With ads all over. If you’re younger than me, your lack of media literacy is disappointing.
And regardless of your age, you’re clearly obsessed with this. I invite you ask yourself—is this the best use of your time? Is there not enough wrong with our world that you need to direct all your rage at cartoon shows? Like save this energy for the govt lmao.
Right back at you
Oh you are YOUNG young then. Please put minor in your bio!!
Bro why are you so pressed about this! I don’t even care about Hazbin Hotel.
Actually kind of curious how old do you think I am? Second question how old do I have to be know media literacy.
Besides the reason there’s multiple videos was because the artist felt like she could improve on her previous design attempts.
people talk about the impact (not quality, IMPACT, as in its INFLUENCE) of hazbin hotel as if its on the same level as evangelion and attack on titan, saying things like "indie animation was changed forever" with that show. People are going to make videos about a show with that reputation.
whether those videos talk good or bad about the show, whether communities that spawn from it are hot garbage or exceptional, shit happens, and no one can rlly control that. People hate gege because of their fav character from jjk, people hate gabi from snk, etc.
though ig vivziepop did have a history of haters going after her (pre-hazbin) and causing drama which fucking sucks and I feel bad for her on that (but ig we're lumping in the kind of people who'd call themselves "former rwby fans" with right wingers who have actual bad faith shit to say)
former rwby fans as in like hbomberguy making a video that's both trash talk and a tribute to rwby, for those who think vivziepop and glitch are the greatest thing to happen to indie animation
You're being such an immature child I might actually go to my baby brother and thank him for being such a mature boy... Wow! Quit crying because not everyone likes what YOU like. Watch the whole video too btw!
Sit down Daniel
Darling, you're in your 30s... YOU sit down and act your age. Be mature for your age or stfu.
Damn I thought she was 15-16
Same honestly- It shocks me how immature some ppl can be
I absolutely love watching these amateurs or "animators who directed and animated many small animated films" waste their time nitpicking and pointing out flaws in popular character designs. I just hope that growing artists don’t actually take these people’s opinions seriously.
its always the ones who understand the least that speak the most 😔 smh
didn’t even watch the video lmao.
I swear to god I feel like I’m commenting on a brick wall when responding to you. That Criticism was in good faith, she was actually trying to help you this time, I don’t know how to tell you this but not everyone is out to get you when they criticize your shows.
bsky.app/profile/elce...
Yeah and that’s fucked up and should be stated? What’s your point bro
I believe it’s ment to show context and show why Vivziepop could be mad at this video or person.
Viv didn’t mention this at all and tbh I don’t think she actually watched the video. And the creator of the video said to take that info with a grain of salt and never said it as a state of fact, just something to take note of.
Oh ok
My roommate constantly says "you're an artist, you should do animation". He won't accept that I know enough about animation to know there's more to it than drawing hand-drawn, b&w sketches. I've seen the animation process and I can admit openly that it takes a lot more work than he thinks
i know nothing really about animation but i can only imagine how fucking hard it is. and to add onto the physical and time consuming aspect, you are literally throwing your body, heart, soul, and mind into these shows. ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE. you’re doing amazing! 🫶🫶
I totally agree with this🙄 uff... I've liked this world since I was little and I've researched a lot about the world of animation, I even went to a Pixar expo where they showed you some BTS of how certain scenes were made and wow I was amazed with everything that's behind it😍
Viv you are embarrassing yourself. Considering you've been hearing you can't take criticism since you were 17 maybe is a sign that it is a REALITY! Because you prove this with this post. That person is actually kind and knows what they talk about, but you cannot help yourself can you? Hire PR guy.
I don’t think it’s criticism, I think it’s cause the creator was actively promoting debunked misinformation… bsky.app/profile/elce...
Except Viv here tries to argue about anything said IN THE VIDEO. Not in the comment section. And again, she spreads blatant misinformation about the creator here. How about stop proving my point that none of you can take criticism. Especially Viv.
I can take criticism pal I just think it’s hard to for anyone to if the person who claims to do it in good faith is also actively spreading misinformation.
Cause if you actively promote negative misinformation about something then claim to be making a “Good faith” criticism, it’s gonna muddy the waters.
Then why spread misinformation about her being some random with no background in animation? Why say anything as if she never watched the video... because I highly doubt she did. You say that and yet conveniently ignore Viv doing this shit.
Because we don’t actually know if she did, no one does unless she said she has or not. And if she didn’t then yeah, L on her part even if she’s been hit with mostly bad faith for 15 years you can never really know this stuff. Though they also might have said it was a Rando to PREVENT shit like this.
You also know that this person said in her video to take that infor with grain of salt yes? As in she wasn't confident about that information right? But it's funny. You immediately assume the worst about that person, but are 'unsure' about Viv. I wont say I am unbiased, but you are from one as well.
To be fair I didn’t see it either, I just get a little red eyed with any misinformation which true I should have been with Viv. Even if there was a plausibility of her trying to hide the persons identity.
Except she did the same thing before with... I don't remember now. It was a youtube channel with two people and she vague posted about them as well to send her fans against them. It very much worked. Bullying also happened with Cartoonshi I believe. Viv never speaks up against THAT. It's just sad.
And before you try to say anything about me. I do not hate Viv. I am frustrated by her and her shows. Doesn't mean I am passionate about them on some level. But good LORD is this fanbase tone deaf. You always do this shit. You always lump everything into the same basket when it comes to criticism.
It has been going on for YEARS. I know because I was in this fanbase before the pilot came out. And from what I talked about with people who were fans of Viv for a while... she NEVER took criticism well. I saw some examples from her Zoophobia days. She needs to grow the fuck up. She is in her 30s
Or gal. Anyone. Because my GOD Viv. STOP! IT!
It's giving "mansplaining."
But I have Adobe Flash CS4, and MS Paint, so I am pretty much an expert in animation, and here's everything I can share on that - Thank you.
Heh, it’s standard who can talk pretty good. They just want to be heard and assert oneself in the eyes of others
Not everything needs a response Hazbin Hotel
as someone who's animation started and ending with flipnote studio in childhood im still 80% convinced it's some sort of sorcery
It's so annoying when YouTube video creators pretend that they are renegade journalists mathing out some secret plot
Every day I wonder why Viv of all people had to get famous, like how did you even get through SVA of all places when you can't handle criticism that you haven't even seen!?!?!?!
the person you’re talking about is literally a professional animator and character designer who graduated from art school and has worked on multiple projects what are u talking about LMAO
I don't even think she watched the video
I’m not saying everyone should follow the same artistic style or career path, but IF you had to choose between taking “advice” from a creator who’s working with a major streaming platform and backed by a studio known for its distinctive taste, or-
the advice of an “animator who directed and animated in many small animated films,” which one do you think is more worth listening to? Maybe you'd pick the latter—after all, their work history probably feels more relatable to you XDDDD
You’re more than welcome to go “learn” from these people’s “valuable advice,” hahahaha.
i remember rebel taxi review of hazbin and you could tell he was bitter because his pilot never got funding.
As someone who animates occasionally. Yes, it’s time consuming. And don’t get me started on clean up and clean line art.
I’m still learning.
Surprisingly, having a $20 microphone doesn't make you an expert on something
I get this as a musician. Just because you can make music, doesn't mean you know how to write a song.
This sounds incredibly tone deaf and privileged. A college degree doesn’t make you any more or less of an artist
The funny part is that the person she's vagueposting about is literally in the animation industry, graduated from calarts, and has worked on multiple projects. The person who Viv is vagueposting about is someone who is COMPLETELY able to criticise her work from a professional perspective
I feel you could benefit from this meme template to modify for your purposes It was made for shenanigans like these.
Have you at least watched the video to know what you're talking about? It's not all about "this is better than your work," and there's constructive criticism too. No one's work is perfect, but you seem to act as if any mere criticism from someone else's perspective turns into hate.
No one is trying to make you change your designs, it may be just fun to see some other people’s perspective of your characters, especially when this person likes the show and is not trying to just act better than you or be mean in any ways yknow?
That video was so kind with its constructive criticism and the creator has been to art school and even said nice things about the show and yet, you're still throwing a bitch fit over positive critique you yourself said you ACCEPT.
You guys act like she was complaining that the criticism existed when it was actually about the misinformation that the OP helped enforce. bsky.app/profile/elce...
Vivzie's post highly suggested that her anger was pointed at the criticism. She didn't even remotely mention the employee review spreadsheet in her original post. Your comment and Viv's post feel like they barely have any association.
The complaint was about a third party speaking like they knew the conditions of Spindlehorse and what its artists go through. That’s the connection.
why yall are praising this one YouTuber and acting like viv is so cruel to not hear them out when she is not obligated to hear them nor does she have to agree with them.
Preach quren!
I’m sorry for talking too long
This reminds me of my animation teacher Troy Gustafson showing us the animation of a famous illustrator he knew. It was their first time animating and it was incredible with every frame highly detailed. The issue was he worked on it like an illustrator and took so much work he swore off animating
I studied animation. Once I argued with my grandma about animation, something she knows NOTHING ABOUT, and yet she was trying to "correct" me. "I don't think it's like that" "I think it's more like this" like no grandma you aren't right you don't know shit about this argument!
(but to be fair this doesn't happen just about animation, it happens on every single thing I may try to talk to her about that she doesn't know anything regarding it. I have learnt to not do that anymore)
You're an adult and you're no longer an Indie creator... Just saying! Act like it and take valid constructive criticism or ignore it. Vague posting is incredibly immature and cowardly. At least watch the video you cry about first. Your shows are corporate owned, you're not immune to criticism.
Fr like why complain about a 3-hour video wtf😂
this sounds quite....mean while I don't like all the designs she made, you seem rather mean spirited abt her giving her opinion
Did you actually watch it? Because she gave some really solid criticism that I even found helpful, lol. Her video was in no way a hit piece against you.
just because you are a big creator doesnt mean you cant take constructive criticism and a fun, researched and respectful video on how the designs in your large show could be optimized to be more readable and easier to animate by someone who has a degree and career in character design. jus sayin.
The issue with people is the fact that: The less someone knows on a topic, the more confident they are in that knowledge they do have It is painful when people genuinely think animation is easy and just think animators are lazy
Sad reality😔
Please watch the whole video. The author of the video is not a hater, she has a degree in animation and has worked in the industry. Plus, she loves your projects😭
I can say I am an artist and I don’t know shit about animation except it’s very fucking hard and time consuming 😰 I envy that y’all are even able to have the motivation to do it
Fr 😭
People are dumb as hell.
Aw man, Karma is so awesome. <3
Hello Viv! Big fan of your work and I absolutely agree with you on what your post is about, some artists thinking they know everything. However, if there is one thing I will ask nicely of you if you can please kindly watch the video. I know... I am just some rando fan asking you to do something ->
that you know you are going to hate, but it would be really nice if you gave the video a shot. If you don't want to watch it, by all means you are right to not watch it if you want. I know it will have the same points as many other videos do have, but who knows, maybe you might find it a little ->
nice. If you still don't like it, then its all fine. I just asking as a fan who extremely feels bad for you and think you should at least give the video a chance. Please?
I don't even click on those hateful videos. Fuck em.
Viv, I’m really sorry that you have to suffer the wrath and envy of those who are trying to spill hatred onto you. Just know that it makes me super happy to see Indie Animators/Cartoonists like you succeeding. Plus to have your shows picked up by a major entertainment company? I see that as a win!
Don’t ever stop working on your dreams Viv, those who are “criticizing” your works and harassing you and your team, are almost certainly motivated by complete envy. Half of who probably have zero experience making stories and animation
youtu.be/im27PRii3HU?... Viv is talking about this a video that she didn't watch and is now lying about that was made by a calarts graduate and someone working in the animation industry who literaly has been inside vivs house before I'm sorry but this is why people think you can't take criticism
As a freelance animator I understand the anger of seeing people thinking animation is easy. Animation is hard, I enjoy doing it, but sometimes it is a big challenge.
I post art on fb to sell. Recently someone claiming to be professional said my sfw furry art was inappropriate/not real art, & my minimalistic & digital art. I had to explain what minimalism was & they only had paintings of trees & sculptures posted. They blocked me when I posted more furry art lol
honestly there's 1 man who can give the best art advice.
I agree, he's pretty awesome for sure 😎
Also two random people started arguing with each other in the comments & taking sides, it was pretty funny. They were getting quite into it lol. I think people who form such negative opinions on skillsets they are unfamiliar with are a bit self conscious they can't do it themselves
Dunning and Kruger are rolling in their graves so hard, it's causing earthquakes.
That was the kindest redesign video I’ve seen. This just proves to me you didn’t watch the whole video, because it was a fair critique and analysis of the characters designs. It wasn’t some vicious attack also if you have something that is in the public sphere; people are allowed to talk about it.
It wasn't just about the redesigns. bsky.app/profile/elce...
What a fucking hypocrite.
vivienne never even mentioned this in her original post
“doesn't mean you understand animation or animation productions you aren't privy too.”
the original poster states multiple times that she went to art school, and has been in MORE productions than vivziepop herself, she’s more than privy to it
To Spindlehorse specifically? Because that’s the problem here!
i mean, they don’t have to be a spindlehorse employee to point out the fucked up turnover rate
You don’t have to work at the company to KNOW how the company works?? Because that “turnover rate” is based on freelance contracting, which tend to be temporary.
and also wasn’t the “something-hundred animators in X years” figure intentionally inflated by including sound crew, music crew, literally *everyone* who worked on Hazbin and Helluva?
I’m aware it’s not just the redesigns I also read the comments as well and what she’s stating isn’t at all false, and their not starting up drama either this is very well known about SpindleHorse. She was just restating information that’s out there, and shining a light onto the animation industry.
Using false information only hurts that effort though, especially with Viv being scapegoated as she is.
It’s not false information nor are people trying to scapegoat Viv I’m not, I just think she was just shining a light on a an issue that needs to be addressed.
WTF is this, God...these people, The time and effort they put into their bad faith. What would they be able to do for their own life if they didn't use that energy for this kind of shit?
Oh my god the fact I remember this nutcase..
I think the youtuber kind of makes it evident that her bringing up the spreadsheets in the video is an animator safety thing rather then an attempt to hate mob. I'm not sure what you aim to get across by pointing out that she's signal boosting (frankly very concerning) comments on Spindlehorse.
Because they turned out to have been FAKED. The spreadsheet was tampered with, it was a whole scandal several months ago.
No, it was tampered with. This person was promised an industry job for slandering Viv.
I write as a hobby (and to keep my mental health in check), but until I publish, I don't dare call myself an author or waste space posting about how I know everything there is to be one. Self-awareness. People should try that more, be humble, and maybe they'll be taken far more seriously.
My face when someone assumes animation must be easy for me because I'm an artist: 😐 "You just have to draw the same thing multiple times - how hard can that be?" 😑😑😑
How are you the creator of an adult show but act so childish? I promise you that person wasn’t coming after your designs it was just constructive criticism
Vivienne, please for the love of god, stop vaugeposting about people on the internet over criticism. you are a grown ass adult in your mid 30's who runs a studio. stop acting like you're 16 on deviant art. my god.
For reals like get over it bro
It's very different to criticize in good faith to people with hateful parasocial relationships with this show (who, to top it all off, lack core knowledge about illustration or script)
100% agree. This is insanely pathetic behavior over someone giving criticism.
Seems she stopped aging there
It takes me 10 hours to do a decent drawing.. I can't imagine trying to animate something and fully color it
if it helps, animators like haryi are able to make beautiful 5 second works on flipaclip in under a few hours (albeit very sketchy but who cares), and stickfigure animations there to lighten your stroke amount to 8 per frame
Say it louder Viv cause I’m tired of artist acting just like the antis who think they understand and can write your show better than you
the artist you are vague posting about has a degree and five years of industry experience in animation. you would know this if you watched the first 3 minutes of said video. she was also very polite and humble throughout. you claim to take good faith criticism, but you don’t.
Do you arrogant Westerners seriously not realize that every single “redesign” is complete SHIT? 😅 Every one of them—any of them—when viewed from a so-called “professional” standpoint, is nothing but a tasteless, arrogant mess with zero redeeming qualities. -
How have you not noticed how ridiculous this all is?
she has more basic decency in her pinky finger than you do in your whole body. you should be ashamed of this kind of reactionary post at your age.
I watched the whole video and she really wasn't. She openly nitpicked so many things as just her personal dislike and that it wasn't "industry standard". She said things were "over used" and "unoriginal" while giving overused and unoriginal alternatives. She was sarcastic on multiple occasions. 🙃
If they really want to use “REDESIGN” as a form of practice, I suggest they go work on character designs from shows that got canceled due to lack of popularity—like Scavengers Reign, which that artist who uploaded a three-hour REDESIGN video happens to love. I really like that show too, but
seriously—why doesn’t she think Scavengers Reign's character designs need a REDESIGN? Is it because she doesn’t love it enough? Or because she thinks its character designs are flawless? Oh, please. I’m so tired of people pretending that REDESIGNING isn’t done out of spite.
Redesigns don’t always mean negativity, many artists redesign TADC’s characters for fun
i disagree, i think you are bing defensive because you like the show. which is understandable. but if i did agree with you, why would that be a reason to lie and diminish a persons achievements?
if vivienne was in the right here, there’d be no reason to say things that are blatantly untrue to get people on her side. it’s immature.
this is constructive criticism, discussing positives and negatives. throughout the video, she has very polite and positive towards the show and characters. she is allowed to have an opinion as much as you do. what isn't okay is viv throwing a tantrum over lies she created for her fans to agree.
The day when people don't describe show production as magic is the day I (a production coordinator and animator) will know peace. It's a complex process that requires planning, good communication, organization of files/documentation, a pipeline that works for the production's needs, etc.
I honestly thought graduating with a degree in animation and working for a while at an indie studio would make folks online actually take what I say about the art form more seriously - turns out they actually believe it LESS now which is w i l d
as someone who knows animation how long should it take to produce 8, 25 minute episodes with a company and the support of amazon? on an average
Well your average 22 minute episode of hand drawn 2d takes about 6 to 9 months to complete in my experience, so it’ll take longer for a whole season - multiple episodes are usually worked on all at once so it’s a complicated process that involves a LOT of organization of multiple working parties
you mean 6-9 months for eight 22 minute episodes right? there is NO fucking way it takes 7.5 months to create 22 mins of animation if they're trying. if that were true every cartoon would take like a decade for a new season, yet it only seems to be viv who can't get content out in a timely manner
Nope - animation is a lot of steps and the pipeline applies to each episode which includes pre-production (concept art, storyboards), production (rough anim & cleanup), and post-production (comp, editing, color + lighting sometimes)
with that logic, how are certain cartoons able to push new seasons every 1-2 years consistently??
Probably because they got the green light from studios to produce multiple seasons - it used to be that cartoons would be guaranteed a few seasons of 20 eps each and production would start way in advance (plus they were adequately staffed until big studios decided they didn’t wanna hire artists)
Nowadays we gotta dance like specially trained capuchin monkeys so that we get only one season of 8 episodes and then work everyone’s asses off so they’ll renew for a second season or axe after the first (animation is expensive and time consuming)
This is usually why studios work on multiple episodes at the same time, with individual teams sometimes devoted to certain episodes while others have artists working all willy-nilly depending on need (in a perfect world we’d have enough well paid artists for every step on every project 😭)
and because viv has a smaller team it's taking longer? is that the message
Another factor is the streaming model I believe - there used to be longer waits in between episodes in seasons that aired on network television, but now a whole season drops at once which puts pressure on the artists to work quicker and audiences expecting more right here right now
More like they aren’t pushing artists - Hazbin only got guaranteed two seasons I believe, three and four only got greenlit after the success of season 1, although smaller indie teams do factor in (not sure the size of SH or the team at Bento Box), but they are giving the artists time to cook
When animators don’t have crushing deadlines or an expedited work schedule that gives us time to really show what we can do (HH season 1 looks amazing thanks to the skill of the team and time they were given) - y’all want a rush job horror story look at Uzumaki I’m still upset about that
Remember the most recent ep of TADC?? We saw the background model for the stadium in the baseball scene over a year ago in the full series announcement short, which means they were working on it back then but only just finished it recently - that’s actually a pretty good timeframe for Glitch imo
i can see 3D animation taking longer, that's still interesting though
Actually 3D has a lot of tools at its disposal that sometimes makes it go a bit quicker than 2D where you gotta draw frame by frame by hand, but from my scant experience in 3D the time frame is about the same (I’m not 3D tho don’t quote me on that)
(6 to 9 months is a bit generous imo, but it really depends on the production - animation takes SO LONG and involves so many steps it’s not something you can just churn out in a year if you want quality work or artists who aren’t pushed to the brink)
THIS! I'm not remotely experienced with animation nor an artist 😅 But I've learned so much about it following Vivian and Crew. Thank you too Salem! Now I understand why my fav Cartoon Network shows were so random with episode premieres/dates, after longer waits (Compared to live "Seasonal" TV shows)
People also assume that animators make these huge, Hollywood/big-budget level salaries/pay (Hi, I was one of them) 😞🤦 It's so much more than just drawing a thousand, slightly different pictures, and then flipping or letting a computer "make it!" Not to mention demands from big-media corporations 🙀
This is all just my experience, I cannot speak for every production and every studio, nor do I have any info on what’s going on behind the scenes at any given project - this is just my two cents as a little rat animator and board artist hunched over a tablet so I can pay rent
To be honest, As the same as many I like to make art and characters for fun, but yes never let anyone tell you what you can or cannot do, I really feel bad about your situation as anyone
say it louder 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
All of those redesign videos bug me so much cuz they say they’re “fixing” ur designs because like for ex: “angel doesn’t look spider enough” while also ignoring absolutely all of his lore (and the fact the characters aren’t literal animals, they just have subtle features of animals, unlike Loona)
In the video, 30 minutes per character is spent going over there lore to better redesign them stop strawmaning
Separately I think it’s normal to be aggravated that people are telling you all of your personal OC’s that you spent years cultivating suck. (And imo Viv brought a lot of unique-ness to an otherwise incredibly boring mainstream media (cartoons))
If you'd watched the video you'd know she likes a majority of vivs designs especially background characters mainly because there a lot more diverse looking then the main cast who most of viv designed in high school and thus didn't adhere to the basic laws of good character design that viv would late
r study at the school of visual design where she got her art degree but hasn't had the heart to really change the look of her old ocs even though her newer characters look way better because they adhere to the fundamentals of character design which is the criticism against most of the characters
And if the only problem is that the old designs are better, just say that.
What? I've been reiterating that vivs old designs are worse because she made them when she was a teenager and knew nothing about the fundamentals of character design back then as compared to now read the words I am saying
The fundamentals suck ass and her old designs rock, I’m afraid we’ll disagree to the end bro
I like vivs character designs. I like her shows. I just don't like it when she lies about people That's like reading the 12 basic principles of animation and being like, nah, I actually like it when it looks like shit when it doesn't have to
Because like she said in the video vivs newer designs are great most background characters look better then the cast and actually adhere to the fundamentals Because half of the main cast was made in 2003 and vivs refused to completely overhaul them design wise
Hey so there’s actually a lot of videos doing this that I’ve watched. I have not, nor do I want to, watch the three hour one in the replies! And Viv didn’t even say it was actually that one she was referencing to if she was referencing any video at all.
I agree that there are loads of bad redesign videos this lady made the most hated one and this is her attempt at going back to it after maturing as an artist it's fair not to watch it no one has to obviously but don't then make assumptions about it And its obvious this is the vid viv is referencing
The video came out 3 days ago It's the most recent redesign video The video is the longest hazbin redesign video exactly 3 hours long as viv stated The vid is blowing up and viv is notorious for looking into what's happening in the fandom And the comments are full of people mentioning vivs post
Looked up the channel. Those redesigns are just sad variations of the actual characters, why are redesigns always so bad… and I rly dc if that lady went to art school or not, she still shouldn’t be talking.
She has the exact same qualifications as viv whether you like the redesigns or not Claiming vivs designs to be immune to criticism and Claiming a peer cannot critique another peer is beyond bad faith
What especially annoys me is Alastor redesigns bcuz they completely ignore everything about his character, and I may be wrong about why u chose some things but as far as I can tell: the hair is bcuz he rips out his own hair from stress
The staff having the eyeball is connected to those red eyeballs we see all over some background scenes (but I think mostly Alastor scenes) and the ppl think it’s connected to Roo.
Him being a deer being ironic both to the fact he was killed being shot bcuz he thought he was a deer and because he’s desperate for everyone to think of him as powerful, yet he awakens in hell as a prey animal.
I also, unlike most ppl, rly loved the change from pilot to current Alastor cuz it felt like you added more depth, making him very boastful with that mostly bark little bite. Cuz he’s powerful but also clearly bluffing most of his stories.
Cuz I mean if he did actually topple all of the big bad overlords of hell, the other overlords at the council meeting would’ve been more intimidated seeing him again, but not only did they not care, they (Atleast Carmilla, Zestial and Rosie) have all been in hell much longer than him
Ppl keep trying to make him more radio like, like Vox. But it’s pretty clear the radio demon is a persona he’s desperately trying to cling to but he visibly doesn’t get to look it. I mean he freaked out at the idea of ppl thinking he’d sacrifice himself, bcuz he thinks that makes him weak.
And if I’m right Viv, big props for writing such a good manipulative unreliable narrator (of a sort), bcuz so many ppl genuinely believe he’s some all-powerful god like he deems himself to be, despite all the evidence against it.
I suggest next time just ignore it, don’t throw a hissy fit over a video like this
Every production has a different pipeline and production schedule. Unless you've worked on that production, assuming you know how it works is just misinformation. It's not a 'hissy fit'. Way to downplay it. Rude.
I’m not trying to downplay it, I’m saying she doesn’t need to be so harsh towards videos she doesn’t like
When is she allowed to be upset, huh? Does she need permission to disagree with someone, or should she just take it? Criticism goes both ways.
Fair enough, but I don’t want to end this conversation on bad terms though, I agree she gets a lot of unnecessary and downright cruel things said about but this video I watched I thought was alright
You're entitled to your opinion. And she is allowed to disagree. I think she knows more about her own shows production than some 3 hour video essay. You'd think after all the bad videos made about Stephen Universe people would remember 3rd party criticism is also worthy of scrutiny.
I remember the insane su criticism And how bad faith they got, honestly makes me sad seeing it happen all over again
Then remember that context. I haven't seen it, the video was labeled as being about redesign, but they also engaged with past misinformation and treated it as fact. So I don't buy that there was not some ulterior motive.
Once you're deep enough into a niche, anyone outside of it sounds ignorant af. With empathy, a black uniform that works on million $ musician tours ❤️
Where did you get this?
Found it on a discord server
Yeah, keep that out if legit. The last I want is spoilers in my feed right now. I can wait for Comic Con for more info, and I'm not in a hurry right now what with other shows keeping my mind busy
I agree. These people make a handful of good art and suddenly they think they know how animation production works. It's like seeing an arrogant home cook think they can run an entire 5-star restaurant all by themselves.
After getting to know the context and one clip from your past streams i can tell you maybe its finally time to grow up
What is this about? Writing criticism? Redesign? Style of animation?
I am noob artist and just cracked the code on drawing poses today, and I can confidently say, I don't know shit 😂
Even artists who work in animation aren't privy to the workflow requirements or the specific situations of other productions. A lot of artists don't even know how other departments on their own production work!
THIS!! literally every production is different, they all have ups and downs but to pretend and judge from the outside is not only a huge waste of time, but also can be so misguiding and unhelpful to people wanting to work in this space. Pisses me off.
One word..Muggles.
It's like a restaurants... one place can make this dish a certain way and another has a different process...
Aw man, Karma is so awesome. <3
That actually explains a lot
Still fun to come up with fan theories and hypothetical show cross overs in my head but these are of course a different thing since while they are fun none are likely to happen in the actual show itself. Imagination is fun yet cruel that way.
My own personal favorite but unlikely to be true is that the HH is failing not because Charlie herself is a failure but because the actual system is literally rigged unfairly with a false "God" manipulating things against Charlie to maintain control over souls (Gnostic theory). Real God likes her.
Just for fun and nothing more... Evidence for theory of gnosticism in HH. #1 Lucifer's "big ideas" are questioned because they challenge the strict order of elders of "heaven.' not because of inherent danger. #2. During heaven's trial Serra seems oddly conflicted by Charlie's words. (TBC)
#3. NO angels in heaven seem to understand the nature of how a soul enters heaven. #4. During sinner death and redemption sinner has "AHA" moment first indicating possible start of inner wisdom/cosmic understanding and when revived in heaven Serra seems shocked indicating outside power did this.
I get that in my job too, nothing to do with animation, but people constantly questioning how it's done
I can see why everyone hates you
the fact that she's a calarts graduate and has had way more industry jobs than you actually shows she knows probably more than you do lol
It’s not the criticism dude, the op was promoting debunked misinformation. Thats the more likely reason why.
Shit this is vile I wish I could bookmark this 🥲
They didn't say they wrote all of them? It's bad that they wrote a few, but that doesn't mean that some of them on there aren't valid. It's anonymous so it should be taken with a grain of salt but still.
I feel like saying “Getting a few of my friends to do the same” would imply collaborative effort on the spreadsheet.
The video itself focuses way more on the actual art side of criticism than it does this element of things. While I can see why anyone would be upset about “misinformation” being brought up, it still doesn’t help Viv’s case here at all.
It’s also worth noting that “ani callout” is a notorious troll and this doesn’t exactly debunk the claims from countless other animators who didn’t use the spreadsheet. Meppity herself stated that the claims felt more valid because she herself has engaged with people who can verify these rumors
Instead of vague posting about a video that features valid criticism and a slight note of information that even the OP wasn’t entirely sure about, maybe she should’ve acted her age and responded more maturely or better yet- not have said anything at all. In the end she is still acting immature
Having a degree from an art school doesn't make you a GOD of art. It just means you studied and graduated from a school, and Viv is the producer of 2 shows. 1 person with an art degree doesn't have higher importance. It's subjective. Having a bigger resume doesn't make you more valid.
Not only did they graduate from some of the best animation schools in America, they also have worked as a character designer and animator for 5 years. What you're saying ISN'T wrong, but someone working for that long of time would probably have good insights. Since Viv is now a professional show-
I mean yes they could have good insights but not all workflows are the same. I think what vivzie was getting at is the person acted like they knew what happens behind the scenes which unless they were there they probably don't. it's basically an assumption vs informed situation. That's my take.
Potentially, I just feel there were better ways she could handled it as an profession show runner. Vague posting just comes of as inmature and unprofessional to outsiders now matter how valid the reasonings may be.
I mean, at least she didn't directly name drop. Vivzie is clearly not trying to call anyone out or attack anyone she's just tired of uninformed takes at how her process is done. A professional can spend years going to different companies but there's never 1 workflow that works with all of them.
Her complaining about people pretending to know everything also probably true (I'm tired of it too). When Viv vague posts it's kinda obvious who she's talking about. It's also just poor form to vaue post in general, why do that when you could have just solved the issuse privately with the person(s)-
also Viv may not mean no harm, but Viv has a very passionate fanbase who some of them will harrass and spread awful rumors about them. This can be deathblow especially if you have a career like the creator she mentioned.
I don't think she was calling out 1 person she just mentioned an example of what people have done, if people over react because of that I mean, would you rather her make something up and be called a liar instead? People will always find something to hate.
"just because your an artist..." and "talking for 3 hours about it like they are a master." It's kinda obivous who she was talking about from these quotes. There was a creator who not only an artist / animator who criticised Hazbin Hotel, but happened to do for nearly exactly 3 hours. The youtuber-
-runner, she can't just be saying this as professional anymore. The standard might be annoying and restriciting, but it's a standard for a reason.
viv graduated from sva and has produced 2 animated shows, one running on its 3rd season and the other running on its 2nd, she's been doing that for 5 years now. this is an unbelievable take
replace unbelievable with incorrect or smth, its not that unbelievable these days just wrong
girl you have got to get that social media manager on speeddial you can’t keep making yourself look stupid like this
Wait, are you saying my not having any experience in animation doesn't make me a subject matter expert? I dunno. Seems sus. I'm sure watching people work on animation gives me all the qualifications. (Pure sarcasm, btw)
"Stop acting like a child and accept criticism already!" You first.
Hello there, HUGE fan of your work as an animator (what you were able to do is the GOLD standard for many of us wannabe animators). My question would be: How does one know the difference between criticism from people who have worked on animation and those who haven’t ( i cant tell the difference )?
Not speaking for anyone else but from my experience it's mostly how people interpret the animation. Someone who doesn't know what it's like will often say: "Start over", "Do better", "Make this look good", or even just "change (x)" without considering the effort it takes.
While someone who does know or has experience will say more of: "This looks a little off maybe exaggerate this part here", "This feels a little fast/slow maybe adjust your timing", and will actually give good feedback to help improve the work over just "I don't like this, make it better".
The actual feedback weather timing, motion, and how the animation is will always be a better response to just "I don't like this, you should change that" which is very condescending and can kill motivation. TLDR: Those who have will know what to say, those who don't... won't.
I don’t know much about being an animator but I do know that it is time consuming, you need people who have technical skills, there is constant pressure for a deadline, and there’s a lot of physical strain to it from being at a computer for hours. ( if I’m wrong about any of this please correct me).
I would be mad to if someone tried to educate me or was randomly taking about how easy it is to do a certain job just because they do something similar to it.
( I really can’t think of anything else to say besides that people need to do a deep, deep search before they go claiming things on the internet and pis**** other people and people that actually have to do the so called easy jobs themselves).
P.S I think you and your team are doing a GREAT JOB!! can’t wait for me Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel content. But also take your time because a wise women once said “ animation, takes a long time”
I think it's because people have been spoiled with anime and CGI graphics too much these days they care more about graphical design than they do about story. Which is really sad because it doesn't matter how good the graphics are if you don't have a story to match it then it doesn't matter.
You think being spoiled by all that they would have a vague understanding of how arduous the process of animation is (But apparently not)
I grew up on sega Genesis, ren & Stimpy with the original PlayStation being the height of video game graphics for my childhood. So Im just the opposite with ANY half way decent art work appreciated by myself given such was a mystery to me for a long time lol.
On a random side note for HH Charlie's success or failure depends entirely on what types of sinners she receives in her hotel. Give a good natured soul in hell on breaking a technicality/bad circumstances EG suicide she wins but give her a soul like Ramsay Bolton... its impossible to win.
Charlie and Loona are the two characters in any series that are probably on people's top ten list of characters that need therapy and hugs the most...
This may offend some, but at least in my opinion, it's not that complex. Those people are just pretending to know more about something that is actually "simple."
I can only imagine how *exhausting* it must be. I also hate that YouTube's algorithm apparently rewards controversial-sounding takes. 😑
Animan-splaining if you will
Im sorry, I REALLY hate this term since it's been used and abused, but this is making you sound very privileged, when you've attended these expensive courses your employees would DREAM of having. And again, more overexaggerating over light criticism from someone with 5 years of experience.
How about we watch the video
that's not fair...most of the people who do that aren't even artists.
I’m not ashamed to admit I don’t know dick about animation. I love it as a medium, but ask me to use it? Not possible. And I tried! I bought 3 different types of software to animate and I couldn’t figure out how to use them. So I can’t do dick with animation. Which is why I love hearing about it.
You are right I don't know and I will never assume. I can't even when I studied Ralph Bakshi's art and animation. It takes time and effort to make minutes of animation, what takes a minute could take hours to produce. Respect the animators and artists
I tried to do an animation once. I did my character winking. Never again. XD I have mad respect for anyone who does.
girl why are you vagueposting about artists making the most basic criticisms of your work LMAOOOO are you 14 years old??
Amen. Preach! I've worked on Moana n Cars. I've been doing this for 18 years n here on BS some kids had the audacity to say my work is AI🤬Like I'd ever! Cause they do commisions n can tell blqh blqh. Have never blocked ppl faster in my life.Would I ever hire them if their CVs landed on my desk?F no!
Animation is way more complex than just drawing- it's drawing the same image and following through with something that looks like natural movement, it's greatly difficult and time consuming. I respect animators a great deal.
Idk man I think their degrees from Twitter university say otherwise 🙄
funny how a ¨Angel dust¨ say that
"Twitter university" 🤣🤣 dude if that becomes a real University, We're all fucked 🤣🤣🤣
having a keyboard, a yeti mic, a camera, and adobe premiere is all you need really.
*stares* I could make my dream cat series then...
*blinks*
from my daughter, "Really, you only respond to the comments that kiss your ass right? Not actual people trying to help you, just your cult members."
Your daughter wants to cuss out an adult woman who has her blocked and your typing for her. 1. That's harassment 2. You and your daughter seem like the immature ones here
Who needs years of education and experience in theoretical and practical settings when you have a youtube account and have decided you've got it all nailed down based on *vibes*.
I think the person you’re alluding to graduated from CalArts tho? Correct if I’m wrong tho, bc now I don’t know.😓
I'm not 100% sure who Viv was alluding to in the original post, I just sort of vented my own displeasure at that kind of person 😅
Okay. Not sure what kind of person you’re describing. Can’t say I’ve ever seen or heard of a person like that.
Viv, please calm down and think about this for a second, because people have made it clear this is not right Think some of this stuff over and think about the stuff you're saying here
💥BAM 💥 And that’s how an animation specialist is born!😂😂
Aw man, Karma is so awesome. <3
These people have no understanding of how production works, like, at all.
For realz
Yo with respect, I’m not sure if vague posting like this is a good idea. And I don’t think the person you’re referring to has any ill will in the first place.
But you animate in 2D. That's line only 66.7% of the Ds Pixar animates in, so you should be able to do it faster.
