"hey 35 to 50 year old newsreading liberals what was the run-up to the iraq war like" is the most precision crafted bait possible on this website
Replies
Long, drawn-out lead up as UK insisted on UN resolution authorising action before agreeing. Millions demonstrated against in capitals around Europe and elsewhere. All ignored. Most Americans allowed themselves to be persuaded that Saddam was linked to 9/11 - an obvious lie to all outside the US.
jun 18, 2025, 10:21 pm • 0 0 • view
There was a lot more unity, and a lot more social ostracization of any decanting voice. Oh, there was a shit ton of pretend and/or real patriotism too. “Support the troops”!!!
jun 18, 2025, 8:41 pm • 2 0 • view
OMG the fucking yellow ribbons...
jun 19, 2025, 3:51 pm • 1 0 • view
Yes. It was this stupid. I have had mistrust issues with the government re: any international violence for a long time, and much of it was influenced by this, and Iran/Contra.
jun 19, 2025, 1:07 am • 1 0 • view
and a picture of Luke Skywalker to boot
jun 18, 2025, 7:44 pm • 0 0 • view
Totally got me I just can't help myself I need them to know how stupid it was
jun 19, 2025, 3:57 am • 0 0 • view
Is Pete Hegseth Donald Rumsfeld?
jun 19, 2025, 10:08 am • 1 0 • view
If you bought Rumsfeld from Temu
jun 19, 2025, 3:43 pm • 0 0 • view
bsky.app/profile/josh...
jun 18, 2025, 7:44 pm • 3 0 • view
Yes, it was major stupid. So many people, otherwise reasonable, in both parties twisted themselves into pretzels trying to justify what turned out to be one of the biggest--maybe the biggest--blunders in American foreign policy.
jun 18, 2025, 8:33 pm • 0 0 • view
As I recall, it was pretty dumb, involving a lot of pointing at non-descript dots on a map. There wasn't much support for it. And then one day I was interrupted while watching an episode of Star Trek Voyager, to see the Americans went and did it anyway.
jun 18, 2025, 9:25 pm • 1 0 • view
This is a personal attack
jun 18, 2025, 9:01 pm • 1 0 • view
It’s odd there’s no modern media/cultural representation about Iraq, 9/11, the war on terror. Think about how much media was produced about Vietnam 20+ years after the fact (and is still being produced). But nothing about 2001-2003.
jun 18, 2025, 7:36 pm • 26 1 • view
So you’re left with what was produced at the time. And that’s not much because of how hostile 70% of the country was to an antiwar message. Basically it’s battlestar galactica, parts of the sopranos, Michael Moore movies & the daily show? Other than that, where is Iraq realistically shown in media?
jun 18, 2025, 7:40 pm • 15 0 • view
Kathryn Bigelow and Clint Eastwood films?
jun 18, 2025, 7:53 pm • 0 0 • view
Have you seen MTV's "Special Ops: Lioness"? We skipped the anti-war and went straight to "we never found anything but they're still the bad guys".
jun 18, 2025, 8:46 pm • 1 0 • view
Max wrote a whole series of essays about this, actually!
jun 18, 2025, 7:41 pm • 0 0 • view
TV/Film – The Hurt Locker, Homeland Music – American Idiot (Green Day), BYOB (System of a Down) The Boondocks comic strip I know there's more, but it's hard to remember offhand
jun 18, 2025, 8:14 pm • 1 0 • view
There was a comedy performance group called Get Your War On that was all about making fun of it and W. Also MOLLY IVINS
jun 19, 2025, 3:39 pm • 1 0 • view
because it’s deeply embarrassing. not just to the US, the self proclaimed ‘good guys’ of the world, but to every nation allied to the US that did nothing to stop it. or in some cases helped us.
jun 18, 2025, 7:47 pm • 2 0 • view
This book is also really great, it details how the illegal invasion of Iraq destabalised the global legal order.. I think it was more popular in the UK / Europe, where Phillipe Sands is known as one of the most relevant lawyers in the world.
jun 19, 2025, 4:33 pm • 0 0 • view
There were some good books too.
jun 18, 2025, 10:10 pm • 1 0 • view
I believe that's called "the memory hole," and it's not by accident.
jun 19, 2025, 3:38 pm • 0 0 • view
jun 18, 2025, 7:23 pm • 17 0 • view
The most important differentiation between then and now is that social media did not exist back then.
jun 18, 2025, 8:56 pm • 0 0 • view
You know what legacy I remember from 911? How they threw adulation on the first responders. Called them heroes. Made people forget how corrupt the NYPD was. Then when they got sick, the GOP BLOCKED medical help because of money. People died houses lost families ruined. Heroes hung out to die.
jun 18, 2025, 10:59 pm • 1 0 • view
YELLOW CAKE
jun 18, 2025, 8:50 pm • 0 0 • view
1st Iraq War (H.W.Bush) or second (W)?
jun 19, 2025, 12:52 am • 1 0 • view
Holy shit, he's comparing a fictional military base to a whole country filled with innocent men, women, and children. What a disgusting fascist he is.
jun 18, 2025, 7:53 pm • 0 0 • view
It was a fucking propaganda machine playing on 9/11 fears. Most of the 9/11 terrorists came from Saudi Arabia. The only person in Congress who voted against going to war against Iraq was Barbara Lee. She got death threats. I called her office & thanked her for her sanity. The media pushed the prop.
jun 18, 2025, 8:08 pm • 4 0 • view
Bush & Cheney & the media kept pushing “weapons of mass destruction”. Later, we all found out (by the same complicit media) what a fucking lie that was. It was a waste of lives and money, but Rethuglicans war hawks continuously masturbated to dropping bombs on something/anything in the Middle East.
jun 18, 2025, 8:11 pm • 3 0 • view
the star wars allusion is also a good touch
jun 18, 2025, 7:39 pm • 7 0 • view
Fox News has always been this stupid. Go onto YouTube and watch the pure patriotic it's going to be great to invade Iraq videos from back then. They were like sports hype videos with 10X the American flags and screeching bald eagles.
jun 18, 2025, 11:10 pm • 1 0 • view
I remember booking a trip to Paris about 2 months before the bombing because I knew a war was coming and didn’t think I’d be able to go after we started a war. I knew they were planning a war (been a news junkie wince the 80s). They thought we would be welcome and a regime change would be quick
jun 18, 2025, 7:55 pm • 0 0 • view
All we heard was "weapons of mass destruction" on loop, 24/7.
jun 18, 2025, 10:24 pm • 1 0 • view
Let me load up this Lewis Black CD to explain things better
jun 18, 2025, 7:36 pm • 7 0 • view
Far more propaganda and there was a direct attack on the U.S to continue to stoke the fears on another Attack could happen any moment. People weren't fully into the 24hr news cycle but Fox Constantly had some of the best coverage of the war. They like actually covered in in a real way.
jun 18, 2025, 9:19 pm • 0 0 • view
CNN and MSNBC were covering but they stayed mostly centralized to the U.S. Things at home were still relatively well off recovering from Dotcom burst and the occupy movement was just starting. We all knew people going to war. Most people knew Iraq was just bush pushing his dad's buttons.
jun 18, 2025, 9:19 pm • 0 0 • view
Weapons of Mass destruction disinfo was revealed pretty quickly but it was too late to turn back what had already started and it was better for both sides to run on continuing or ending the war. 9/11 gave Bush a lot of leeway and while he may have sucked in my opinion he didn't get on TV.
jun 18, 2025, 9:19 pm • 0 0 • view
Bush relatively stayed off TV unless it was a specticle like landing on the aircraft carrier. Overall it was a dumb time but wasn't the ambiguity a d both sides still kind of worked together.
jun 18, 2025, 9:19 pm • 0 0 • view
The fact that this one is being done by tweet, whereas the Iraq war was done through the UN makes clear how much even more stupid this is. And Iraq was very stupid, this is just massively more so.
jun 19, 2025, 11:49 am • 0 0 • view
39, was politically aware at the time. It was at least as stupid the Saudis and their stooges bombed us and George bush gaslit the country into fighting sadaam Hussein It didn’t make sense at the time and they just kept calling it patriotism and everybody attacked you if you were against the war
jun 18, 2025, 10:56 pm • 1 0 • view
And of course y'all got any of them freedom fries
jun 18, 2025, 8:24 pm • 0 0 • view
If you're not for us, you're against us, And other variations
jun 18, 2025, 8:23 pm • 0 0 • view
They had aluminum tubes, man. All the proof I needed. I didn't know for what, but I was told it was bad by the news. 🤪
jun 18, 2025, 8:04 pm • 0 0 • view
I was around but I don’t wanna relive Bush v. Gore, really
jun 18, 2025, 7:43 pm • 1 0 • view
In a nutshell shell, Lies, lies, weapons of mass destruction, lies lies, weapons of mass destruction, lies lies weapons of mass destruction… same as today from trump and Netanyahu ie lies,lies, nuclear bomb, lies,lies, nuclear bomb, lies, lies, nuclear bomb
jun 18, 2025, 9:20 pm • 2 0 • view
😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
jun 19, 2025, 1:53 am • 0 0 • view
Dopamine is a helluva drug.
jun 18, 2025, 8:25 pm • 0 0 • view
jun 19, 2025, 12:10 pm • 2 0 • view
I remember the balsa wood drones of mass destruction.
jun 18, 2025, 9:54 pm • 0 0 • view
Death Star was confirmed to be an operational weapon of mass destruction, fwiw.
jun 18, 2025, 7:40 pm • 1 0 • view
counter-question: Population of Alderaan? 'cept that Rubio and Carlson both work for 'the Empire,' and Luke did not, so the transition from the drawn comic to actual events is nonsense.
jun 18, 2025, 8:04 pm • 0 0 • view
Get your war on sums up the stupidity of the time www.mnftiu.cc/category/gyw...
jun 18, 2025, 8:01 pm • 0 0 • view
Lol that schlebby bootlick thinks he analogizes to Luke Skywalker.
jun 18, 2025, 8:40 pm • 0 0 • view
We went collectively crazy after 911, everyone was tinfoil hat for retribution and it didn't need to make any sense, the real start of the the polarized we are in, nobody really questioned
jun 18, 2025, 9:17 pm • 0 0 • view
Yeah, Bush's bullshitters were exactly like Cruz - they knew nothing about Iraq and continually made whacked out statements on our road to ruin. Carlson, a Nazi lite character, actually learned something. The GOP didn't.
jun 18, 2025, 8:49 pm • 3 0 • view
Baby Boomer here. It was fear mongering. Sec of State Colin Powell (who I trusted) saying Sadam Hussein had WMD’s & were a threat to the U.S. & the free world. I should have trusted my instincts that VP Dick Cheney and Sec of Def Donald Rumsfeld were bad actors. But, 9/11 was fresh in our minds.
jun 18, 2025, 10:04 pm • 0 0 • view
Which Iraq war?
jun 18, 2025, 7:29 pm • 7 0 • view
The one over oil?
jun 18, 2025, 8:58 pm • 3 0 • view
Then, as now, (most of) the rest of the world was rather uniform in its criticism of the imperialist war. It was reflected in the “Coalition of the Willing”, where only three other countries signed up to put troops on the ground for the invasion (UK, Australia and Poland).
jun 18, 2025, 7:42 pm • 7 0 • view
A different kind of stupid... but, yes
jun 18, 2025, 9:19 pm • 0 0 • view
Those that even questioned the war in Iraq were called unamerican and cancelled. Media went along with the Bush lies and thousands died as a result. The people who were against the war were correct on all their arguments.
jun 18, 2025, 8:12 pm • 4 1 • view
The journalists who stood up to the lies lost their jobs and the ones who embraced the propaganda got raises.
jun 18, 2025, 8:28 pm • 2 0 • view
Please tell me @markhamillofficial.bsky.social saw this!
jun 18, 2025, 7:37 pm • 0 0 • view
Equally banana pants. Canada refused to be involved.
jun 18, 2025, 7:55 pm • 0 0 • view
This post is a WMD
jun 18, 2025, 9:43 pm • 3 0 • view
It wasn't as obviously dumb because the way the bush admin presented their "evidence" was more professional / buttoned up. They also used people like Colin Powell who had a really solid reputation even amongst liberals to deliver that message. It became pretty clear it was a lie though early on.
jun 18, 2025, 7:58 pm • 1 0 • view
We also need to revisit Weezer's Pinkerton album.
jun 18, 2025, 7:18 pm • 12 0 • view
Absolutely we do not
jun 18, 2025, 7:41 pm • 7 0 • view
Looks like we got a purist in the house! www.youtube.com/watch?v=ab5W...
jun 18, 2025, 7:46 pm • 0 0 • view
no pink triangle no tired of sex no nothing?
jun 18, 2025, 7:58 pm • 0 0 • view
No Weezer at all, sorry. '96 has a ton of riches and for me they just aren't in the mix at all. Put on Ride The Fader and get back to me.
jun 18, 2025, 8:12 pm • 0 0 • view
Explains so much. 😜
jun 18, 2025, 8:24 pm • 1 0 • view
I had an open mind about whether Saddam had a WMD program until Powell's claim about buying uranium in Niger. To one with some relevant expertise, that was so absurd it discredited everything they were saying. 1) If they're still looking for natural uranium, they're nowhere near building a bomb.
jun 18, 2025, 7:46 pm • 0 0 • view
2) To buy U from mines in Niger by govt-to-govt arrangement, in those days you needed to go to Paris, not Niamey.
jun 18, 2025, 7:54 pm • 0 0 • view
For the 50 year olds, you'd have to clarify, which one you are talking about. The one by George H.W. Bush (41) in 1990 (Which had a military paradade in D.C., that has somehow been forgotten) or the one by his son in 2003. Both started with lies and the whole world knew it was lies 1/2
jun 18, 2025, 8:40 pm • 0 0 • view
But somehow the US population got tricked (oops) and it's getting a bit annoying meanwhile with doing all these things anyway, despite all the lies. The US has - so to speak - escalated it's policy of getting dissappointed by lies everyother being on the planet knew where lies...
jun 18, 2025, 8:40 pm • 0 0 • view
Bush's daddy already wiped out Iraq but then they wanted to kill daddy bush so gw made up some plausible bullshit that Sadam might have gas or other weapons. Sadam had jack shit he was trying to to buy 3,500 xboxes for their gpu guidence systems.
jun 18, 2025, 9:32 pm • 1 0 • view
yeah it’s like a millennial homing beacon
jun 18, 2025, 7:38 pm • 3 0 • view
is this a golden opportunity to type Fuck Cheney once more?
jun 18, 2025, 7:51 pm • 3 0 • view
While I can't stand Tucker McPhuckstick, he really esploited the absolute ignorance of Ted, and it was funny. You really should know about the country you are proposing going to war with. Dropping bombs and sending in troops should never be taken lightly.
jun 18, 2025, 7:37 pm • 6 0 • view
Freedom Fries. Calling opponents of the invasion anti American. Colin Powell in the UN. It was just as stupid.
jun 18, 2025, 9:37 pm • 4 0 • view
It's crazy when you really start to think about the amount of Americans that have actually seen combat through the years. I like many others belong to the army reserve because of the conscription in Finland. But those that have seen war after the 40s are peacekeepers and a few volunteers in Ukraine.
jun 18, 2025, 8:29 pm • 1 0 • view
Also involves trying to answer “what was it like witnessing & living through 9/11?” Bc that’s inextricably linked to the question posed by OP
jun 18, 2025, 7:43 pm • 8 0 • view
Unless you called French Fries Freedom Fries you were an American hating commie cuck
jun 18, 2025, 8:34 pm • 0 0 • view
I just read freedom fries and Dixie Chicks and now I’m wandering around yelling “Leave Britney alone!!!”
jun 18, 2025, 7:40 pm • 5 0 • view
![We know where they [Iraq's WMD] are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south, and north somewhat.... I would also add, we saw from the air that there were dozens of trucks that went into that facility after the existence of it became public in the press and they moved things out. They dispersed them and took them away. So there may be nothing left. I don't know that. But it's way too soon to know. The exploitation is just starting. Donald Rumsfeld Interview with George Stephanopoulos on ABC News This Week, March 30, 2003](https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_thumbnail/plain/did:plc:nztbvvo2gl4227zuxjf7gog3/bafkreicq565424okplvxknadad62wvpvavmqv2rdledw52zcneweydhuna@jpeg)
jun 18, 2025, 7:42 pm • 68 2 • view
Wait, Exploitation as in... blacksploitation? was Rumsfeld dropping Genocide Easter Eggs 3 decades ago? 💀
jun 18, 2025, 8:43 pm • 0 0 • view
I remember the press conference where he said this. I was screaming at the TV, "So they are literally EVERYWHERE, and yet we haven't found ANY!"
jun 18, 2025, 8:08 pm • 28 0 • view
Hahahaha oh my god.
jun 18, 2025, 8:02 pm • 0 0 • view
Same exactly. The stupid destroyed us
jun 18, 2025, 10:12 pm • 1 0 • view
can measure the frequency of the bait posts by "Get Your War On" traffic spikes
jun 18, 2025, 7:40 pm • 0 0 • view
If one started from the view that W was an inveterate liar and Cheney was worse, not hard to see at all.
jun 18, 2025, 8:22 pm • 0 0 • view
Looks like Hans Blix is still alive maybe he can help
jun 18, 2025, 9:52 pm • 2 0 • view
*slides over a CD copy of American Idiot* This is all you need to know
jun 18, 2025, 11:03 pm • 31 1 • view
Oh man, that album suddenly became relevant again.
jun 19, 2025, 6:51 am • 1 0 • view
General Powell was embarrassed on the world stage with false information fed to him by Bush and… What was his name? Oh yeah… Dick Cheney… It was a bullshit reason and a bullshit war and it got the munitions factories moving, and the billionaires richer. So yes, same as it is now.
jun 18, 2025, 8:00 pm • 5 0 • view
General Powell was talked about in "Future President" terms, until they made him lie for them.
jun 18, 2025, 8:36 pm • 4 0 • view
He was speaker at our son’s college graduation. The handshake photo is a treasure. Proudest moment was when our son began his tenure at State.
jun 18, 2025, 9:04 pm • 1 0 • view
He would have made a great President too. I still think they sabotaged his reputation intentially because he was trusted more than the rest of the administration.
jun 18, 2025, 10:11 pm • 1 0 • view
Agree
jun 18, 2025, 10:31 pm • 1 0 • view
Don't forget that Judy Miller's story about the "WMDs" was kind of the tipping point because so many people thought the NY Times would publish something that didn't have solid evidence. It was absolutely infuriating, even at the time.
jun 18, 2025, 9:11 pm • 1 0 • view
There were so many players…
jun 18, 2025, 9:43 pm • 1 0 • view
It's funny because of trauma.
jun 18, 2025, 8:03 pm • 0 0 • view
I think it was partially easier to sell because of 9/11, and there was more appetite for some sort of revenge. I was in the Navy before 9/11, and the "vibe" was we need to do something in return, but we (at least I did) felt we were going after the wrong thing, but didn't know how to find ISIS.
jun 18, 2025, 8:28 pm • 1 0 • view
I'd also add that smartphones weren't a thing, and broadly speaking, traditional media was our only source of information. We can see somewhat how traditional media is trying that with these conflicts now.
jun 18, 2025, 9:54 pm • 1 0 • view
Was less stupid, not valid in anyway but it was somewhat respected voices spinning a tale not some weird orange moron thinking he’s some fucking hero
jun 19, 2025, 4:24 am • 1 0 • view
Two words. Freedom Fries.
jun 18, 2025, 7:40 pm • 0 0 • view
35 year olds would’ve been in 8th grade.
jun 18, 2025, 7:44 pm • 0 0 • view
Little comic called Get Your War On
jun 18, 2025, 8:39 pm • 0 0 • view
rip ur replies
jun 19, 2025, 4:26 am • 5 0 • view
It was pretty stupid. The NY Times was heavily involved. I promised at the time never to vote for anyone who went along with the war, which was great for Obama, but then I had to backtrack for Hillary.
jun 18, 2025, 9:49 pm • 0 0 • view
"Mission Accomplished"
jun 18, 2025, 7:48 pm • 2 0 • view
Country much more unified due to 9/11. "Bad Intel WMDs", people trusted the news and government much more than today. Thirst for blood and revenge. It turns out there were never WMDs in Iraq, Bin Laden was in Pakistan (not Afghanistan), and sadly not many cared how many nonwhite civilians died.
jun 18, 2025, 7:41 pm • 12 0 • view
I want to take the bait so bad... Watch Fahrenheit 9/11 and Vice that will explain a lot of what led us here.
jun 18, 2025, 9:14 pm • 0 0 • view
Remeber the good old days when they had to sell war to Congress? And in response to the packaging, it was an unbelievable presentation that people only accepted because of 9/11 and the fear of being seen as un-American. Not everyone was for it - polls were cooked even then.
jun 18, 2025, 7:49 pm • 4 0 • view
In my memory it had the same general feeling of “this obvious bullshit is so obviously bullshit” but everyone was so jacked on 9/11 revenge juice there wasn’t any real people in power public opposition to the war on either side except for Barbara Lee. So…stupid in a different way, maybe?
jun 18, 2025, 8:15 pm • 3 0 • view
😘😘😘
jun 18, 2025, 7:41 pm • 8 0 • view
Lol I almost fell for it, too!
jun 19, 2025, 4:20 am • 0 0 • view
I do want to shame Nikki for not knowing that we watchers of US media very timely had TV shows *starting to talk* about the plight of Afghan women under the Taliban [and how maybe we should write to our Representatives about liberating them]... in 1999. #PNAC
jun 18, 2025, 8:51 pm • 0 0 • view
Narrator: It was, in fact, this stupid. I was maybe 22-23 at the time.
jun 19, 2025, 4:18 am • 0 0 • view
I remember when the afternoon airing of "Duck Tales" was interrupted showing missiles bombarding Kuwait.
jun 18, 2025, 8:58 pm • 4 0 • view
I've always wondered why freedom fries took hold in the popular memory while freedom toast, which to me sounds even stupider and also happened, didn't. Much to consider.
jun 18, 2025, 9:32 pm • 2 0 • view
Anyone remember the pro-war flash games from the early 2000s?
jun 18, 2025, 8:23 pm • 2 0 • view
There were so many of them
jun 18, 2025, 8:26 pm • 0 0 • view
We had onions on our belts, which was the style at the time
jun 18, 2025, 7:35 pm • 33 0 • view
That's a deep cut, and I appreciate that.
jun 19, 2025, 3:37 pm • 1 0 • view
jun 18, 2025, 7:18 pm • 3 0 • view
I recall that there were absolutely huge marches and protests against the war until the bombs started falling, and then it was 24-hour a day war porn on CNN. The opposition was silenced in the media, and we suddenly felt like we were the only ones with an ounce of sense.
jun 19, 2025, 12:50 am • 16 0 • view
It wasn’t until Katrina in 2005 that people woke up and remembered what we knew in 2002 and 2003.
jun 19, 2025, 12:50 am • 7 0 • view
Discussing political history is "bait"? What kind of galaxy-brained point are you trying to make here?
jun 18, 2025, 8:14 pm • 0 0 • view
It was actually worse in many ways. And most liberals were too busy supporting Bush's wars and helping the GOP demonize the mass protests against it. In fact none other than Joe Biden led the effort to get Dem buy-in for the war. Sounding familiar?
jun 19, 2025, 12:40 am • 2 0 • view
Got two words: Freedom Fries
jun 18, 2025, 8:06 pm • 0 0 • view
It was extremely stupid. There were lies about Saddam's weapons of mass destruction as a reason for toppling him but Bush never talked about it until after 9/11, and Saddam hadn't gotten new ones, so it was obviously bullshit. Not everyone could see it but public opposition in the UK was gigantic.
jun 18, 2025, 10:59 pm • 7 0 • view
A “bunker buster” bait if there ever was one
jun 18, 2025, 9:51 pm • 0 0 • view
It was fueled by hysteria, fear, finger-pointing, anger, politicization, and nationalism as the result of 9/11 attacks.
jun 18, 2025, 10:00 pm • 1 0 • view
Ah yes, the “only a fool-or possibly a Frenchman” era. It was a dumb time. But this is even dumber.
jun 18, 2025, 9:26 pm • 0 0 • view
It was way less stupid and there were many serious attempts to legitimise regime change. Ultimately it didn’t work and we did it anyway. So the basic premise was the same - a confected threat alleged against a disgraceful regime, as a pretext for declaring war for unrelated reasons.
jun 19, 2025, 10:34 am • 0 0 • view
I mean, the BBC news used to cut to serious UN Security Council mtgs hourly. We knew it was bullshit. They knew it was bullshit. But they felt they had to try to make it legal. Now we just read out tweets from a deceitful angry racist President and listen out for missiles.
jun 19, 2025, 10:38 am • 1 0 • view
Bc. Z. A zzz
jun 18, 2025, 8:12 pm • 0 0 • view
:à
jun 18, 2025, 8:08 pm • 0 0 • view
The age range is more like 45 to 75 year olds, but yes.
jun 19, 2025, 12:03 am • 1 0 • view
Known unknowns. The fog of war. Things of that nature.
jun 18, 2025, 9:15 pm • 1 0 • view
Colin Powell’s speech with the metal canister would break their brains.
jun 18, 2025, 8:02 pm • 0 0 • view
Wish I could help this young woman out but I only recently turned 30 and simply can’t remember “the bush years”
jun 18, 2025, 7:18 pm • 218 2 • view
This is distinctly stupider. Remembering this unexpected moment of cred for my alma mater (✍🏼) www.thenation.com/article/arch...
jun 25, 2025, 1:02 pm • 0 0 • view
It was just as stupid but had a slight veneer of more “respectable” language. I knew people who genuinely believed Iraq caused 9-11. Many also saw the first Iraq war as successful and so didn’t mind a reprise. The bipartisan thirst for blood was real, it didn’t much matter whose.
jun 18, 2025, 7:55 pm • 1 0 • view
I will say I remember Congress agreeing to a budget under beady eyed Bush that just exempted war spending. That was nice, but it was much later in the war.
jun 18, 2025, 8:03 pm • 0 0 • view
That didn't pass. Pelosi threatened it and the administration fell back on accusing anyone of disagreeing with them as being for the terrorists (because they never gave up on the lie that OBL worked with Saddam)
jun 18, 2025, 8:25 pm • 2 0 • view
Yeah, I'm over 50. Also can't help. Bummer.
jun 18, 2025, 8:01 pm • 0 0 • view
Well QED
jun 19, 2025, 5:12 am • 0 0 • view
It was a little less obviously stupid, because the W/Cheney admin were better at packaging lies. Also, they wanted to invade Iraq from the get-go, so they were always working from a plan. The stupidity -- of the whole idea -- was only widely apparent in retrospect.
jun 18, 2025, 7:32 pm • 115 2 • view
I'd disagree. It was dumb in real time. Yellowcake (debunked), chem weapons had a shelf life, the fact we has UN inspectors there up to a point (thank the GOP & CIA for them getting kicked out)...if you were reading McClatchy Newspapers etc you knew JUST how nonexistent the evidence for EMD was.
jun 19, 2025, 2:24 am • 19 0 • view
I cut my teeth protesting the Iraq war during the dum beat and run up *because* I knew the facts, that were *not hard to find* if you looked.
jun 19, 2025, 2:24 am • 11 0 • view
*drum beat
jun 19, 2025, 2:24 am • 2 0 • view
As I've said to several others in this thread, your insight was, unfortunately, decidedly in the minority. To most people *at the time*, the invasion of Iraq was something to be taken seriously. Contrast that with now, where if you're not in the cult, you're laughing at Trump. Or terrified, maybe.
jun 19, 2025, 2:31 am • 0 0 • view
That doesn't mean it wasn't dumb in real time. Just means most people were dumb in real time (mostly cuz the mainstream press were steno'ing as hard back then as they do now). As I recall, Cheney et all going on deep background and then citing the resulting article in their public articles dumb.
jun 19, 2025, 2:33 am • 2 0 • view
Actually this whole discussion on those days is bringing up some unrequited rage right now. Gawd I hated those assholes. I really didn't want to live through this again.
jun 19, 2025, 2:34 am • 4 0 • view
Most of what you're talking about was only known after the fact. The Cheney thing is one of those things. The question I was originally answering was narrow: did it seem as dumb back then, as it was happening, or does now seem dumber? Recall my orig answer: bsky.app/profile/bjke...
jun 19, 2025, 2:38 am • 0 0 • view
Again, if you were reading McClatchy, a lot of it was debunked in real time.
jun 19, 2025, 2:41 am • 1 0 • view
I was reading McClatchy. And again, I've already acknowledged multiple times that *some* people knew what was going on. It is possible that A can have more of something than B, without A having all of it, if you see what I'm saying.
jun 19, 2025, 2:47 am • 0 0 • view
This is becoming circular and annoying. I'm muting. Have a good night.
jun 19, 2025, 2:48 am • 1 0 • view
You, too. Although I guess you won't see this.
jun 19, 2025, 2:49 am • 0 0 • view
I totally agree. I was paying attention and screaming that they were lying the whole time. Those fuckers were salivating like rabid wolves to get in there
jun 19, 2025, 4:17 am • 0 0 • view
I was in my early 20s when the Iraq War 2 went down and I knew it was bullshit from the jump, and I didn't understand why anyone with a brain believed it. It really was a mind fuck to see so many people support it. Probably why I didn't go for it was that I have never trusted a Republican.
jun 19, 2025, 3:46 am • 3 0 • view
Even the allies didn't believe it. As German's foreign minister said "I am not convinced" www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpuN...
jun 19, 2025, 7:01 am • 1 0 • view
No, some of us thought Hans Blix knew what he was talking about and were fully aware of the rampant stupidity before the event, not just in retrospect.
jun 18, 2025, 11:40 pm • 0 0 • view
Sure. Some. But those of us who were aware were outnumbered, by a lot. Look at some polling data from Jan 2002: www.pewresearch.org/politics/200...
jun 19, 2025, 12:14 am • 0 0 • view
Also social media was incipient at best instead of pervasive like today. YouTuber Shaun once said that back then the government would lie to us and we’d learn about it months or years later, but today routinely their lies come hours after we’ve seen first-person witness video that refutes them.
jun 18, 2025, 8:20 pm • 2 0 • view
What.
jun 18, 2025, 8:21 pm • 0 0 • view
Idk, I distinctly remember cringing A LOT, and that's before I learned that the planning for rebuilding Iraq was literally handed over to college interns
jun 18, 2025, 7:46 pm • 1 0 • view
I'm not saying there was no cringe back then, but compared to Trump today? Who is just pulling random answers out of his butthole from minute to minute? Who has nobody at a senior level who has any idea what to do about anything? Hegseth? Noem? Gabbard? No comparison.
jun 18, 2025, 7:51 pm • 0 0 • view
Eh. Idk. They said they know there were weapons. But the weapons inspectors didnt find any. But they had to pull them out to bomb Iraq bc they have weapons. That couldn't be found. But they knew where they were?
jun 18, 2025, 7:34 pm • 54 0 • view
I think the way it worked is that they knew they wanted to invade, no matter what, from the get go. I think a few thought there was some small chance that Saddam was pursuing WMDs, but really, most of them just thought of that as the excuse. When the inspectors didn't find anything, NBD: (1/2)
jun 18, 2025, 7:48 pm • 8 0 • view
The old "but we got the receipts for the WMD we sold him"
jun 18, 2025, 9:38 pm • 2 0 • view
:D :D :D
jun 18, 2025, 9:44 pm • 0 0 • view
(2/2) always a way to spin it as "clearly, our wily opponent is even wilier than we knew." Like that old WWII story, about the Gen. John DeWitt: "[no sabotage is] a disturbing and confirming indication that such action will be taken." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_L....
jun 18, 2025, 7:48 pm • 6 0 • view
Yeah I mean w wanted to invade before 911 and used the fact the group that did 911 was nearish enough to ride that excuse. Even though Saudi Arabia was the nationality of most of the hijackers and also now our friends to help with Iraq? Wildly disrespectful to basically everyone
jun 18, 2025, 8:17 pm • 2 0 • view
This part. It was painfully, obviously stupid, corrupt and illegal **at the time**. I was… 20? I knew enough to be at the anti-war protests and part of the crash-Congress-phones-and-faxes action (that the NYT actually reported on, bc it mattered. Not enough to stop what came next, unfortunately.)
jun 18, 2025, 7:53 pm • 6 0 • view
Yes, this. Judging from the large protest march I was a part of on the day of the ground invasion? I know we all thought it was a pretty obviously stupid idea from the jump.
jun 18, 2025, 10:20 pm • 1 0 • view
They were somewhere “north, south, east or west” of Baghdad
jun 18, 2025, 8:18 pm • 21 0 • view
One of those. Def one of those. What an absurd time
jun 18, 2025, 8:25 pm • 10 0 • view
They're hidden in a cave. Lots of caves. Caves we can't even find.
jun 19, 2025, 12:01 am • 2 0 • view
“There are things we don’t know we don’t know”
jun 19, 2025, 2:15 am • 2 0 • view
I'm not gonna lie. That I was like 'true'. Rumsfeld had me nodding. Like metaphysically there are known unknowns and unknown unknowns and that's fun to ponder but absolutely not a reason to invade a whole ass country
jun 19, 2025, 2:17 am • 1 0 • view
I was watching on the sofa and felt the same (I didn’t think he needed to go thru every variance of it, but). The existential Rumsfeld. A philosopher in a fleece vest
jun 19, 2025, 2:21 am • 1 0 • view
Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and he used them: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja...
jun 19, 2025, 2:19 am • 0 0 • view
Yeah so then he didn't have them like 15 years later.
jun 19, 2025, 2:20 am • 0 0 • view
My fav part was when Reagan sold them to them. We had the receipts
jun 19, 2025, 2:22 am • 0 0 • view
yes, also German chemical companies helped them to produce them
jun 19, 2025, 2:27 am • 0 0 • view
at that time he refused to prove that he destroyed the old stocks, and anyways the regime’s knowledge to produce chemical weapons was still there. but you’r right, the mistake was not to topple Saddam’s regime in 1991. it happened much too late
jun 19, 2025, 2:26 am • 0 0 • view
I'd say the primary difference was this was pre-social media so there was far less trolling. There was a large contingent of people who saw right thru Iraq and WMDs. We knew he was just avenging daddy/acting in Halliburton's interests. We just couldn't directly interact with senator and media ppl
jun 18, 2025, 7:51 pm • 2 0 • view
I am saying this with some degree of confidence because I was a 21yo college student in a purple-turning-red state who wasn't particularly engaged in the anti-war mvmt and that was the general impression *at the time* of the people I knew.
jun 18, 2025, 7:54 pm • 0 0 • view
Not really. It was widely apparent. I still have my blogposts from that time. Every day, the Bush peeps would say something stupid. Then the NYT would say, bark bark, here' Judy Miller. Like now, really - the Dem and Rep establishment were and are brain dead.
jun 18, 2025, 8:51 pm • 0 0 • view
I remember that Wolfowitz said the war and occupaton would cost nothing, cause the grateful Iraqis would just pay us back. A two trillion dollar miss. But why go over old idiocies, when we can just commit new ones?
jun 18, 2025, 8:52 pm • 0 0 • view
From my blog, april 14, 2003: So the scenario looks something like this. Post-Saddam Iraq will be ruled by some junta of Iraqi exiles whose first exercise of power, supervised by their American superiors, is to hand over the only source of income Iraq has. limitedinc.blogspot.com/2003_04_13_a...
jun 18, 2025, 9:00 pm • 0 0 • view
>> It was widely apparent. Not as much as you think. You saw it, people aligned with you saw it, but many others were completely snowed by the W/Cheney/neocon pitch. I'm not saying their core ideas weren't stupid. Only that Trump *appears* more obviously stupid, in real time, doing the sell.
jun 18, 2025, 9:13 pm • 0 0 • view
I agree that the media did perhaps a worse job than they are doing now regarding the Bush first term. Never questioning why for instance Bush and his admin did not know a thing about the 19 hijackers - which of course we know now the Cia warned him.
jun 19, 2025, 5:47 am • 0 0 • view
The way in which the NYT had a habit of releasing the conclusions of their investigative reporting two to three years after it was undertaken. The way in which OBL "disappeared" on his magic pony - which the media just swallowed. And of course, the lies they all plied.
jun 19, 2025, 5:49 am • 0 0 • view
The only journalist who was punished for incompetence in the aftermath was Judith Miller. Jeffrey Goldberg, whose pathetic lies about the tie between Sadaam Hussein and al qaeda in his New Yorker reporting moved the needle, moved upward, and is now the Atlantic editor.
jun 19, 2025, 5:53 am • 0 0 • view
The impunity enjoyed by media hawks mirrored the growing impunity for any punishment for any wrongdoing by the powerful, culminating in Trump's get out of jail free card issued by the Biden DOJ. Impunity for the most powerful is now killing the country.
jun 19, 2025, 5:54 am • 0 0 • view
I’m sorry, but no. Many of us called it from the very beginning. I remember a conversation with a co-worker: “They’re lying. There are no WMDs.” “Do you really think they’d lie about something like that?” “Absolutely.” I wish I could say it was gratifying when he realized I was right, but it wasn’t
jun 18, 2025, 10:04 pm • 0 0 • view
I'm not saying W/Cheney had 100% of the population convinced. Remember the narrowness of the original question that I answered. Whatever correct insights you had, they were, unfortunately, not widely shared. By contrast, there is a lot less acceptance of whatever Trump is trying to sell. That's it.
jun 18, 2025, 10:10 pm • 1 0 • view
You’re right. I glossed over the qualifier “widely”. My bad.
jun 18, 2025, 10:15 pm • 1 0 • view
Totally agree. Their marketing of bullshit was a little less unbelievable, and they had it planned out ahead of time. And then we realized they were full of shit
jun 18, 2025, 8:44 pm • 0 0 • view
I disagree. It was always unbelievable. The stories they told were inconsistent, the turn to Iraq after half the hijackers were from Saudi Arabia was blindingly obvious, and the playbook was all about getting us in the war, not what comes next - their plans for that were ridic.
jun 18, 2025, 9:04 pm • 4 0 • view
Technology has changed everything. We see things live, as they are happening. All day long. Using detonating pagers is insane. Like, can’t we all just get along?
jun 18, 2025, 10:21 pm • 0 0 • view
In retrospect, I agree. Though having lived through it, I would say that I was confused and unsure at the time.
jun 18, 2025, 9:07 pm • 0 0 • view
bsky.app/profile/did:...
jun 18, 2025, 9:05 pm • 0 0 • view
This exactly. In real time, it looked like maybe a well-thought strategy to avoid war, saber-rattling etc. But then,one day, um wait we are actually invading Iraq now?
jun 18, 2025, 8:16 pm • 1 0 • view
Lol no it wasn't
jun 18, 2025, 10:44 pm • 0 0 • view
no it wasn't! it was obviously stupid and insane from the day of! the at-the-time largest protest movement in American history turned out to say how stupid and evil it was!
jun 18, 2025, 8:55 pm • 0 0 • view
I think you are projecting how you and your circle felt at the time onto the entire population. I was well aware of the protests back then. I was also well aware of the much larger number of people who were accepting the invasion. A good illustration: the number of pundit mea culpas put out since.
jun 18, 2025, 9:18 pm • 0 0 • view
the pundit "mea culpas" aren't evidence that they were convinced, they're evidence that they're lying sacks of shit
jun 18, 2025, 10:05 pm • 1 0 • view
also whether people were actually fooled doesn't really have much to do with whether it was apparent or not. it was, self-evidently, bullshit and a terrible idea.
jun 18, 2025, 10:08 pm • 1 0 • view
That's your view. It was the minority view back then. Plz remember that I was only answering the question, did things seem as stupid back then as they do now? There is no question that Trump is much more widely seen as clueless/reckless/making it up as he goes along, compared to W/Cheney back then.
jun 18, 2025, 10:13 pm • 0 0 • view
Did things seem as stupid: yes, they did! (Because they were.) Did more people approve of the war, for whatever reason: sure. That makes more people some combination of idiots and "bloodthirsty, but mildly embarrassed to say so openly."
jun 18, 2025, 10:23 pm • 0 0 • view
noted
jun 18, 2025, 10:26 pm • 0 0 • view
No. Not in all cases, not even close. People were sincere, and sincerely wrong. If you're talking about the later apologies, I would just ask you to consider how often pundits admit they were wrong about anything.
jun 18, 2025, 10:12 pm • 0 0 • view
If you think Jonathan Chait or David Frum or any of the rest of those worms were anything more than, at best, indifferent to the truth, you're falling for the same scam that lets them still have careers and again: it can still be stupid regardless of who was fooled
jun 18, 2025, 10:20 pm • 1 0 • view
Weirdly enough, I think of Chait pretty much as I always have, while I see Frum as having made a remarkable change in direction. One last time: I am not saying invading Iraq was not stupid. I was only saying, up top, that when W/Cheney were selling it, it seemed less stupid *at the time* (1/2)
jun 18, 2025, 10:25 pm • 0 0 • view
(2/2) than how Trump is coming across. This I believe, not matter how vociferously you insist that you had W figured out from the get-go. I salute you for having seen clearly back then, but you were in a decided minority *at the time.*
jun 18, 2025, 10:25 pm • 0 0 • view
Again, because you seem confused: it has NOTHING to do with who was in the minority or not. There was no excuse for supporting the war. There was no excuse for believing the justifications. There were just more people with no excuse.
jun 18, 2025, 10:27 pm • 1 0 • view
ehhhh I was a teenager and could still smell a rat long before we even had boots on the ground
jun 18, 2025, 7:40 pm • 4 0 • view
Yeah, but you were in a clear minority back then.
jun 18, 2025, 8:01 pm • 0 0 • view
As a teen? Maybe. We had mass marches up to half a million people matching in major world capital cities. Our rulers were too busy assassinating scientists and crafting reasons to ignore dissent- it's not like the anti war movement was niche or fringe either.
jun 18, 2025, 8:28 pm • 1 0 • view
I don't dispute this, but it doesn't really have to do with my original answer to the original question.
jun 18, 2025, 8:30 pm • 0 0 • view
🤷♂️
jun 18, 2025, 8:43 pm • 0 0 • view
That doesn’t mean it wasn’t obviously stupid to that minority. the build up to invasion of Iraq 20 years ago was polling roughly similarly to trans youth sports bans today and those are also obviously stupid.
jun 18, 2025, 8:04 pm • 3 0 • view
That's correct. They really sold the public and congress on the WMD angle to justify the second invasion of Iraq. The first one under GHWB was far more cut and dry.
jun 18, 2025, 7:42 pm • 5 0 • view
This is mostly forgot. Bush Jr wanted revenge, everything after makes sense. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_cr...
jun 18, 2025, 10:46 pm • 0 0 • view
Just letting you know I saw your comment. I don't want to relitigate that whole sorry mess. My answer above was much narrower in scope, or so I intended it to be.
jun 18, 2025, 11:08 pm • 1 0 • view
We agree on many levels. Followed
jun 19, 2025, 12:32 am • 1 0 • view
sort of. lots & lots & lots of people clocked it all immediately bc it was still transparent that it was flimsily pretextual & extremely dangerous for a lot of reasons. but the political & media classes were in lockstep and angrily rejected any serious dissent
jun 18, 2025, 11:12 pm • 2 0 • view
I dunno, it was pretty stupid. So many news reports showing people pouring french wine in sewers for not backing the invasion, french fries renamed to freedom fries, just about every time Bush spoke was as ridiculous as now to my recollection
jun 18, 2025, 7:41 pm • 4 0 • view
Oop. That supposed to go here. bsky.app/profile/petr...
jun 18, 2025, 7:58 pm • 1 0 • view
Agreed. But I still say that despite the peripheral stuff you mention, there is no question that W/Cheney had thought things out and were working long term. Basically, a stupid core principle, but not as obviously stupid as Trump today. Think about how many people bought into it, back then.
jun 18, 2025, 8:00 pm • 0 0 • view
Yeah I can agree that there was more calculation behind some of the stupidity of the Bush era, but regardless of the steps to get there, we still ended up at incredibly fucking stupid lmao
jun 18, 2025, 8:03 pm • 0 0 • view
Of course. But I was answering a narrower question: how did the sell-job then compare to what Trump is doing now.
jun 18, 2025, 8:05 pm • 0 0 • view
I thought the question was about the run up and not the sell. Either way, it seems we both agree it it was stupid then and now in many ways. Have a good one!
jun 18, 2025, 8:17 pm • 1 0 • view
question. how old are you? how old were you in 2002-2003?
jun 18, 2025, 8:01 pm • 1 0 • view
65, so I was 42-43 back then.
jun 18, 2025, 8:01 pm • 0 0 • view
well it was readily stupid at the time. the wmd rationalization was thin. the 9-11 connection was even worse. and yeah cheney and co had been wanting to invade for a decade, but the only "plan" they had was "they'll greet us as liberators"
jun 18, 2025, 8:12 pm • 1 0 • view
Agree with all. But I was answering a narrower question: did it *seem* as stupid, in the run-up, as things seem now, with Trump? And again, I would say no -- even if you, like me, saw through the W/Cheney bs, we were in a distinct minority. On the other side was pretty much all of Congress &the MSM.
jun 18, 2025, 8:14 pm • 0 0 • view
I think the Trump factor has changed what qualifies as "stupid". While the current government is indeed more reckless and ill-prepared--stupid, if you will--at the time of the iraq invasion it was especially frightening to have bush's stupidity getting 70% approval. it was a mass cultural stupidity.
jun 18, 2025, 8:20 pm • 3 0 • view
honestly, I have more faith in domestic resistance to Trump's imperialism than I ever did to Bush's. For this reason--feeling less alone--it just feel less stupid to me now.
jun 18, 2025, 8:23 pm • 3 0 • view
Okay, I'll go along in that sense, that the public seems collectively smarter this time around. But there is no question in my mind about the perception of the two admins: Trump's looks a lot stupider than W's.
jun 18, 2025, 8:26 pm • 0 0 • view
I remember being incredulous at what at the time I thought were unsurpassable levels of stupidity and blatant, falsehood-led scheming on the part of Bush and his admin. As a Brit in the US I watched open-mouthed as Blair was reeled in.
jun 18, 2025, 9:10 pm • 1 0 • view
I'm 46. It was blindingly obvious to me at the time that the WMD didn't exist and Dubya was just trying to exorcise his daddy issues. It was more disciplined, but anyone with half a brain could tell what was actually happening.
jun 18, 2025, 7:43 pm • 10 0 • view
I’m 68. I objected not only to the whole Iraq WMD thing from the get go but also to the Afghanistan invasion. Everything was blindingly obvious from the start.
jun 18, 2025, 7:46 pm • 6 0 • view
To some of us, yes, it was. But to most of the population, including almost all of the MSM, it was not. I don't have the sense that there is anywhere near the same level of unquestioning support for Trump today as there was for W back then.
jun 18, 2025, 7:53 pm • 1 0 • view
i mean, we had the most massive antiwar protests in American history at the time
jun 18, 2025, 11:16 pm • 1 0 • view
No arg. But that was still a minority point of view. Have a look at some 2002 polling data: www.pewresearch.org/politics/200...
jun 18, 2025, 11:18 pm • 0 0 • view
the idea of manufactured consent was pretty much mainstreamed in the years following bc of how aggressive the MSM campaign in support of it was, based on total bullshit
jun 18, 2025, 11:22 pm • 4 0 • view
I remember practically every cable new network running pro-war fluff all day with American flag graphics, then having "embedded" reporters for the initial invasion into Iraq
jun 18, 2025, 11:24 pm • 3 0 • view
Yeah, I have literally never watched network or cable TV with any regularity and it's mildly shocking to me how much that distinguishes my opinions and cognition from that of most people
jun 18, 2025, 11:31 pm • 2 0 • view
The *debate* was less stupid because the people involved could all more or less construct a coherent sentence and at least give the impression of basing their claims on fact. That doesn't make the MSM's abdication of its responsibility to dig below the surface any less culpable.
jun 18, 2025, 7:59 pm • 3 0 • view
Not at the time. Or maybe more like, many of those who saw it was a crock were too afraid to speak up. My only point was the overall sell-job was more long-term and planned out than what we're seeing now with Trump.
jun 18, 2025, 7:58 pm • 0 0 • view
The second sentence definitely characterized it. I think the typical feeling for a ton of people was: I can't express skepticism without bringing a whole lot of harassment onto me. Therefore I have to persuade myself to believe it
jun 18, 2025, 8:42 pm • 0 0 • view
Or at least, not say anything. Which, as a zillion skeets here will remind us, is tantamount to going along.
jun 18, 2025, 9:11 pm • 0 0 • view
Yeah, I had the advantage of living in a deep blue bubble (New Haven, CT/the Yale campus) where seeing through the bullshit was the majority position.
jun 18, 2025, 8:46 pm • 1 0 • view
Yes, at the time. The vast majority of the US population apparently did not possess the necessary half a brain. That doesn't make what I said less true.
jun 18, 2025, 8:00 pm • 1 0 • view
Maybe not, but it's a little tangential to my original point.
jun 18, 2025, 8:02 pm • 0 0 • view
For sure that’s exactly right. This time though Iran is actually a real issue (certainly compared to Iraq) but they don’t have any plan, strategy or idea of what they are going to do beyond the very very short term It’s just a different kind of crazy / stupid
jun 18, 2025, 7:46 pm • 0 0 • view
I just want to mention that when Colin Powell did his presentation to the UN, it included this animation of mobile weapons labs in Iraq because we had no evidence they actually existed, but if they DID exist, this is what they’d look like This was presented as EVIDENCE. And he was the credible one
jun 18, 2025, 8:18 pm • 11 0 • view
love to wholly manufacture and 3D render reasons for going to war
jun 18, 2025, 11:15 pm • 2 0 • view
Yes. But that supports my original point, doesn't it? We know after the fact how stupid things were, but there wasn't widespread sense of that during the sell job. It was a comprehensively, planned-out, years-long effort to snow the public. Today? It's been a week of panicked shooting from the hip.
jun 18, 2025, 8:24 pm • 0 0 • view
I agree it’s very stupid in retrospect but for people REALLY paying attention, it was staggeringly stupid at the time And again, this is the “evidence” Powell used after all the embarrassing and patently false BS that he told them he would not use
jun 18, 2025, 8:21 pm • 8 0 • view
Prob was, of course, that few were "REALLY paying attention." Also, the hindsight aspect is straying from the original point. Question was about perception of the admins, as things were/are being ramped up.
jun 18, 2025, 8:28 pm • 1 0 • view
In my view it was equally stupid up front. Plus the internet barely existed so what excuse did people have to be hypnotized? None. I howled in the streets and we kept Canada out of it because it was stupid, mad, racist, greedy, and all around effed up.
jun 18, 2025, 9:30 pm • 2 0 • view
I think yours was more of a minority view back then, unfortunately. As I said elsewhere, it's illustrative to think about how many pundit mea culpas trickled out, starting a couple of years after. Again, not saying it wasn't stupid. Just that it wasn't seen that way, compared to view of Trump, now.
jun 18, 2025, 9:49 pm • 0 0 • view
Maybe so. I assume you're speaking for the USA. Certainly in Canada and the rest of the world it was pretty well known. The protests in Canada were bigger than anything in a long time, and were the reason we stayed out - people didn't want it and were prepared to vote the gov out on it.
jun 18, 2025, 10:13 pm • 1 0 • view
Yes, I was answering the question thinking about the US. I agree that back then, a lot of the rest of the world was much more skeptical than the US population was. That said, I suspect that the rest of the world also sees Trump's sell job as even stupider than W's. That's how embarrassing he is.
jun 18, 2025, 10:16 pm • 1 0 • view
Yeah, that's probably true! "Yes, but my stupid goes up to eleven." - Donald Trump.
jun 18, 2025, 10:22 pm • 1 0 • view
It is mortifying, every day, to wake up thinking about how my country is coming across on the world stage, thanks entirely to him. 80 years of mostly good work, down the drain.
jun 18, 2025, 10:27 pm • 0 0 • view
Back then they built up and prepared lies to provide justification in advance. Here it’s all post-hoc rationalization of Trump’s whims.
jun 18, 2025, 7:34 pm • 22 0 • view
Well put. Better than my "always working from a plan."
jun 18, 2025, 7:38 pm • 4 0 • view
This. All the rules have changed. This administration won’t even bother to try getting Americans on board much less the UN.
jun 18, 2025, 7:52 pm • 7 0 • view
I was in deep red country, and people were protesting when it happened.
jun 19, 2025, 5:05 am • 0 0 • view
“In foreign policy, we talk constantly about deterrence, however today we decided to attack Iraq exactly *because* they have WMDs. But, don’t worry *wink* we think it’ll be a clean sweep.” Any kid past 7th grade social studies knew the lie. But people were also xenophobic, and saw no personal risks.
jun 18, 2025, 9:47 pm • 3 1 • view
So, back then I anchored morning news in a mid-size market. Daily I got to work at 3:30am, saw the BS the network provided affiliates and insisted we add that the IAEA had found no WMD. At least it was in the coverage. But I gave up on the profession after the invasion. Eventually left it.
jun 18, 2025, 10:57 pm • 2 0 • view
I don't understand
jun 19, 2025, 6:44 am • 0 0 • view
And I will take it 👏 every 👏 single 👏 time.
jun 19, 2025, 6:17 am • 0 0 • view
It’s always 1938
jun 18, 2025, 8:57 pm • 0 0 • view
MASSIVE rise in anti-muslim rhetoric mostly from GOP, meaning ANYONE who "looked" Middle Eastern was attacked. At the time, we weren't given all the info about 9/11 by govt/media & invading Iraq was framed as both retaliatory & a "preventative solution" to further terrorist attacks. Sound familiar?
jun 18, 2025, 7:51 pm • 0 0 • view
Excuse me I’m about to be 32 and it is still bait for me
jun 19, 2025, 12:02 am • 0 0 • view
It felt less awful because the president had more integrity (if not intelligence) and the racism was masked a lot by PTSD from 9/11 and fear of terrorism. Still awful. President still lacked integrity. Still racist. Just less so.
jun 19, 2025, 12:04 am • 0 0 • view
hahahahaha
jun 18, 2025, 7:33 pm • 100 0 • view
How it feels to be asked, as a 37-year-old
jun 18, 2025, 8:24 pm • 7 0 • view
Got two words: Freedom Fries
jun 18, 2025, 8:07 pm • 72 0 • view
Tried to explain this to my kid a while back and he was so confused. lmao
jun 18, 2025, 9:53 pm • 3 0 • view
They go well with Freedom Toast.
jun 19, 2025, 12:33 am • 1 0 • view
I walked straight out of places that listed freedom fries
jun 18, 2025, 9:07 pm • 18 0 • view
It was absolute bullshit. That's what it was like. But not as openly stupid. As in: GW's handlers had a decent enough hold on his dimwit shit (though there were moments). But the immediate Post 9/11 patriotism/jingoism/HOW DARE YOU QUESTION SHIT was....JFC...
jun 18, 2025, 10:28 pm • 3 1 • view
Seriously: look up what happened to the Dixie Chicks for speaking up about the war.
jun 19, 2025, 1:14 am • 1 0 • view
If you want to understand how MAGA was able to be the mainstream, you have to look at the 2000 election. Sure, there are other factors that predate this but GW's ascent is pivotal.
jun 19, 2025, 6:03 pm • 0 0 • view
JOHN KERRY AND JOE FUCKING LIEBERMAN
jun 18, 2025, 9:30 pm • 1 0 • view
I was 11 years old when we went to war with Iraq, and I threw my binder at the wall in Mr. Priest's 6th-grade Social Studies class when I found out. It's really not that hard to tell when the world is bullshitting you, even when you're still a kid 🤷♂️
jun 18, 2025, 8:26 pm • 0 0 • view
jun 18, 2025, 8:27 pm • 0 0 • view
Sometimes it feels like nobody remembers the 90s…
jun 18, 2025, 9:10 pm • 1 0 • view
trying not to take it but it's hard
jun 18, 2025, 9:11 pm • 0 0 • view
Someone shot someone else in the face and that wasn’t an issue
jun 18, 2025, 7:52 pm • 5 0 • view
Do they think we were smart 20 years ago and just recently got very stupid?
jun 18, 2025, 8:49 pm • 1 0 • view
"--also wilco sucks"
jun 18, 2025, 7:14 pm • 37 0 • view
Them’s fighting words
jun 18, 2025, 7:25 pm • 6 0 • view
jun 18, 2025, 7:26 pm • 7 0 • view
Wilco released the song “War on War” in 2001. The second Iraq war began in 2003. Had we listened to them, we could have saved a trillion dollars.
jun 18, 2025, 7:30 pm • 11 0 • view
I feel like I should push back on this, purely because the drummer for Wilco went to my high school.
jun 18, 2025, 7:45 pm • 0 0 • view
I can't give anyone a real feel of what it was like anyway. It was kinda like the run up to this war we're about to have right now. But this one's worse because even worse people are in charge.
jun 19, 2025, 3:38 am • 1 0 • view
I never thought it could get worse than Dick fucking Cheney, but here we are.
jun 19, 2025, 3:47 pm • 1 0 • view
Right? I never thought we'd have DFJT until he came down that stupid escalator. Then I thought, here we go....
jun 19, 2025, 8:32 pm • 1 0 • view
It was peak stupid. Look up “yellow cake.” We’re not at that level of stupid, but we’ll get there quickly, no doubt.
jun 18, 2025, 9:59 pm • 3 0 • view
It was pretty stupid, not quite this stupid
jun 18, 2025, 7:34 pm • 3 0 • view
It had a veneer of, well, less stupidity, because none of the politicians involved were as obnoxious as Trump is. Oh, he was floating around though.
jun 18, 2025, 7:41 pm • 2 0 • view
It was stupid and inevitable and almost every outlet fell in line.
jun 18, 2025, 7:43 pm • 4 0 • view
Muricans were burning Dixie Chicks CDs and LPs (in between ordering their freedom fries, cause anything French was banned). Washpost, NYTIMES were all sounding boards for George W and the neocons. Giving voice to that guy from Niger who spread misinformation about WmDs, whatever fit the narrative
jun 19, 2025, 5:43 pm • 0 0 • view
The buried lede is that ted fucking cruz thinks he's Luke Skywalker.
jun 19, 2025, 4:42 am • 0 0 • view
Iraq was mess. I hated Bush, but his admin wasn’t so inept as 2.0
jun 18, 2025, 8:51 pm • 0 0 • view
The congressional cafeteria started serving freedom fries because the French government knew the WMD argument was a lie and wouldn't participate. So, there's not much difference from now.
jun 18, 2025, 7:38 pm • 55 0 • view
Is that what the beef with the French was about?
jun 18, 2025, 8:56 pm • 10 0 • view
France did not want our bombers and fighters flying over French airspace on the way to bomb Iraq.
jun 18, 2025, 9:15 pm • 20 0 • view
Yup. And then people started calling them cheese eating surrender monkeys and shitting on them for WW2... Even though the French resistance never went away and they scuttled their fucking Mediterranean fleet to deny the Axis their use. And then immediately went to Algeria to liberate Fr Algeria
jun 18, 2025, 10:03 pm • 2 0 • view
Not to mention... Fucking Napoleon. Need I say more? I mean I could mention France aiding us in our war of independence but these people probably wanted to conserve the colonies, since they simp for Monarchies (Kings) so hard and conservatives be conservatives in the historically political sense.
jun 19, 2025, 6:03 am • 1 0 • view
Pretty much yes
jun 19, 2025, 8:15 am • 3 0 • view
"why did John Kerry drop so much in the polls in late August/early September 2004?" even more narrowly targeted.
jun 18, 2025, 7:36 pm • 18 0 • view
I'm still angry about that campaign. Massachusetts people windsurf you idiot nation.
jun 18, 2025, 9:31 pm • 2 1 • view
Big in Oregon too!
jun 19, 2025, 1:10 am • 1 0 • view
We had freedom fries. It was that stupid..
jun 19, 2025, 12:11 am • 2 0 • view
Colin Powell, who everyone thought had strategic deterrent levels of integrity, and who could have been a presidential contender, burned it all up when he lied and said there were wmds. I believed him. Briefly.
jun 18, 2025, 9:22 pm • 2 0 • view
Gather 'round younguns. Granpa is gonna tell you all about yellowcake.
jun 18, 2025, 7:40 pm • 1 0 • view
yooo max good to see u here
jun 18, 2025, 7:45 pm • 3 0 • view
terrible. my parents were the only people i knew who were against it, and recognized the push for war as imperialist propaganda
jun 19, 2025, 2:20 am • 1 0 • view
Magas then were called Neocons.
jun 18, 2025, 7:57 pm • 2 0 • view
Pure propaganda. They actually showed a burned-out trailer and said WMD were inside.
jun 18, 2025, 8:41 pm • 1 0 • view
No, It was pretty well-crafted. Some saw through it
jun 18, 2025, 8:57 pm • 0 0 • view
The republican administration at that time were professional gaslighters. They were sure saddam was the issue. Or maybe they just wanted to get into a war. Even now we don't know.
jun 18, 2025, 8:43 pm • 0 0 • view
392 replies on bluesky is insane
jun 18, 2025, 7:21 pm • 3 0 • view
Turns out elder millennials want to talk about the 00s.
jun 18, 2025, 7:34 pm • 3 0 • view
Im itching to testify about how pissed off I was, just haven’t found the right time.
jun 19, 2025, 4:20 am • 1 0 • view
*in 1 hour
jun 18, 2025, 7:23 pm • 1 0 • view
Don't mind me, just enjoying my freedom fries
jun 18, 2025, 7:40 pm • 0 0 • view
Lots of people properly ashamed of that terrorist hunting sticker they put on their honda civic in high school
jun 18, 2025, 7:34 pm • 4 0 • view
There should be an IQ test in order to vote
jun 18, 2025, 9:03 pm • 1 0 • view
Wait, which Iraq war? The under under Bush 1 or the one under Bush 2? Freedom Fries was some peak stupidity.
jun 18, 2025, 9:06 pm • 14 0 • view
Also, does Cruz think that the US is the Rebellion/Jedi in Star Wars??? Um...because....it's not. vagabondvisions.substack.com/p/miserables...
jun 18, 2025, 9:09 pm • 6 0 • view
Weapons of mass destruction, that’s what I heard over and over but they seemed much more together than this bunch of yahoos.
jun 18, 2025, 8:05 pm • 0 0 • view
You are either with us or you are with the terrorists
jun 18, 2025, 8:14 pm • 10 0 • view
The claim that Saddam and OBL worked together was clearly a lie but the national media joined with the right wing propaganda machine to shut up anyone who pointed out the obvious.
jun 18, 2025, 8:27 pm • 5 0 • view
Look at the national media today. Still trying to hang Biden as Trump wants American planes to bomb Iran. The Trump agenda is dead Americans and disappeared brown folk.
jun 18, 2025, 11:03 pm • 2 0 • view
I was one of the MANY who protested against it. The right called us all America-hating terrorists. Those same people now act like they were always against it, and it was somehow Hillary's fault.
jun 19, 2025, 3:33 pm • 0 0 • view
Was there, can confirm it was stupid, don't feel like talking to anyone who uses AI and engagement bait like a bot tho
jun 18, 2025, 8:48 pm • 0 0 • view
I also remember a story very early on in the news that talked about Kuwait drilling illegally into undisputed Iraqi oil territory for decades. Having been asked to stop, they wouldn't. Not being an apologist for Saddam Hussein, but there was much more going on than is remembered these days.
jun 19, 2025, 1:33 am • 1 0 • view
yeah, that plus the 2000 election fiasco were what radicalized me. it's been a steady march towards socialism ever since.
jun 18, 2025, 7:30 pm • 21 0 • view
Yeah. I'm a bit older than the OP, but I never made it back from that.
jun 18, 2025, 7:39 pm • 4 0 • view
Socialism???
jun 19, 2025, 3:40 pm • 0 0 • view
capitalism is about to burn the world to a cinder so...yeah
jun 19, 2025, 3:41 pm • 1 0 • view
I’m rarely the target demo, but I jumped on this perfect bait.
jun 18, 2025, 7:55 pm • 0 0 • view
yeah but i am 35-50 years old and susceptible to anyone kindly asking for my opinion ; ;
jun 18, 2025, 8:02 pm • 0 0 • view