It doesn't get reported on that much, but the party membership is deeply, deeply unhappy at the moment – which was not the case in 1998. The extreme drop-off in membership numbers, and in the numbers of activists turning up to canvass, is starting to filter through to MPs.
Tell me about it... 😑
I've heard similar and not just from legacy momentum types but the people who wanted Starmer in. May 26 is already too late as far as I'm concerned, but any thought of staggering through to 2028 before taking stock has to be put down.
I mean, I myself am one of said people who wanted Starmer in! Not that I was ever any great fan of his, you understand: he was just the best of the three options we were offered in 2020.
I put the soft in soft left and he’s managed to take me from cautiously optimistic to despairing to outraged to actively opposed to the party in about a year. Again, I resent being taken on such a journey by such a man.
I swear he's being radicalised by his inner circle. He's 6 months away from a Prevent referral.
Don’t talk about me like that, I’m right here.
I'm on the right of the party! (the liberal bit of right at any rate) – and I'm unhappy
Yes, its fair to say the membership and furious and letting it be known
It's not one single thing, it's the fact that we don't seem to be sticking to our values on anything. Not on child poverty, not on disability, not on LGBT rights, not on anti-racism. All of it compounds into this overwhelming feeling of having been taken for a ride.
The simple reason for this is that the membership were absolutely taken for a ride. He lied brazenly to get to where he is.
One could argue that he lied to the British electorate as well, but I don't think he perceives it that way. It's more that he's just always done what his advisers have told him to do to win elections (leadership and general) without stopping to question whether the platform is actually deliverable.
The uncharitable reading would be that he doesn't perceive it that way because he simply doesn't care about being honest or not, only saying whatever he feels might deliver an advantage to him at any one time
His advisers may well be giving him shit advice, which I fear we may yet still see the true nadir of, but fundamentally he is the fucking Prime Minister of the United Kingdom and I'd like to think he is capable of independent thought
The charitable reading is that he believes that this is just what you have to do to get a Labour government, but if you're going to be the PM you a) need a reason for that to be worth it and b) have to notice when it isn't working.
Yeah; like I said elsewhere, confusing electoralism as the end rather than the means
Like if you're a believer in the theory that the worst Labour government is better than the best Tory government, you have to have a reason why that is the case. It seems like Starmer just believes having a Labour government is an ambient good thing, not an opportunity to improve things.
The thing is, I actually did believe that, and I shouted that relentlessly during the 2019 campaign even at people who thought Corbyn was evil, and it wound up with me voting Labour last year against my own better judgment. My reward for this is a government that almost makes me want Cameron back
(I said "almost" before someone tries to have me sectioned and/or shot.)
I think right now Cameron would take a vastly much more harder stance on the Tommy Robinson crowd. Though somewhat for the wrong reasons thinking all the Tommy Supporter are just violent white chavs who should have their benefits taken away thinking it will solve the problem.
Kinda feeds into "don't worry, it's just midterm blues" when you're not improve the actual mood of the country in the run up that's determining stuff as well.
Compounded by the feeling that he is bemused by practical politics and adjacent to it whilst Farage, however repellent, has spent twenty-odd years determinedly working out how to thrive and engage in the same arena
And it's not much of a left-right thing either. Members aren't up in arms about nationalisation or trade union rights or what have you. The anger is about the disregarding of what most members would consider basic egalitarian principles.
People wished for a return to "Old Labour" and that's what we got. Specifically the Labour of 1968.
Indeed. People go 'this isn't a Labour government'when it is, in fact, a very Labour government
I have a personal connection to the PLP (not outing myself lol) and even some previously very loyal Starmerites are talking about Rayner talking over - and they aren’t naturally her supported either.
Yes, I've heard mutterings to a similar effect
I don't think it helped that they made us defend the WFA changes for 9 months then U-turned spectacularly, giving it back to couples earning 70k, if you're doing something, tell people why and stick to it. (I supported the WFA change(
Same - it was the right choice tho needed finessing st the bottom end
Yeah - I think the party is sort of thinking its doing a lot of technical progressive change (and it is) which should be enough for people.... but those values *really* matter
Especially (and this is when I start to lose the sympathy of my audience) given a lot of the technical changes are actually counterproductive to certain progressive goals, to some extent at least
Arguably, but im less sympathetic there
Of course!
And in the meantime it feels like Starmer is sitting there and not noticing that the buttons he is pressing aren't connected to anything. It's like every time he says something anti-immigration he expects the press to clap and it's a surprise to him that they still hate him and think he's a Trot.
He genuinely has to be stupid at this point to have not noticed that he could literally throw a Hitler salute in Downing Street, and yet racists are still going to vote Reform because they don't believe he's being honest for a second.
And frankly they'd be right not to believe him. He lied about being a Corbynite, he appears to have even lied about being a mild socdem, why wouldn't he also lie about being a headbanging anti-immigration sort? The man has a credibility gap like the Atlantic Ocean.
What is it even building the political capital to do and would he even notice if it did?
I think the last 48 hours might have been a boiling-over point after the contorted effort many senior party figures have made for *at least 15 years* to convince themselves that anti-racist attitudes are not cool. At some point the actual members can and will go 'oh fuck this'
In a sense it's the whole Gillian Duffy thing gone full circle. The refusal to countenance that July last year might have been a smashing victory for *the liberal left*. Not Blue Labour. Not Reform liteists. The liberal left.
They completely failed to notice that in addition to them picking up a ridiculous majority, the Lib Dems picked up 70+ seats, the Greens four and a bunch of randos with the platform "genocide is bad" picked up a few too
Its the anti racism that's the proper red line for most I think
You guys really have managed to speedrun our trajectory from 10-24.
Conservative Delays versus Labour Delivery.
it's cos they hardly believe in anything
They have mistaken electoralism as the end rather than the means
We had a normally right-of-the-party guy on the verge of tears in CLP over the 'island of strangers' speech a few months ago. And a lot has happened since then.
i feel bad for that guy :(
This website keeps telling me Labour doesn’t do regicide, and I keep looking at the Labourlist cabinet approval numbers and thinking all Angela Rayner needs is 80 MPs and a desire to be Prime Minister McSweeney threatened to suspend 120 2 months ago
thinking to myself that will probably still not be the most overtly racist thing he does and just staring out the window
I actually felt that bit wasn't too bad in context - it was the foreword that really got me
"squalid chapter" and all the stuff yesterday/today about "not wanting to see [asylum seekers]". horrid man
Its the closest Ive come to resigning
+1, this week has tipped me into the he's got to go camp, the lack of push back on Fartage is abysmally cowardly and the 'Every cabinet minister sleeps with a flag under his pillow' is frankly pathetic. We're dealing with racist bigots not patriots
Yeah it's the anti racism. I can put up with a lot, I get government is tough and Labour traditionally (ie Blair) talk right but govern left but I'm reaching my limit on the rhetoric on immigration. A) because it's wrong, b) it's not working, and c) *everyone* knows it's not what Starmer thinks.
I don't even mind "tough" language on immigration. But fucking stand up to the actual fucking racists or what is the bloody point of us being in power with a huge majority!
Exactly! I can defend controls on immigration etc (hell, you need them! Numbers have been unsustainable, tho for valid reasons) but when the fash turn up you have to hit back
The 'Boriswave' really messed up a lot of reasonable policy making on migration with it having explotiable loopholes and all (and also the Hindutva types, not a coincidence unrest happened in Leicester 3 years ago*). I mean the 2023 figures annual is not sustainable with our housing & infrastructure
*lol I cannot wait if and when another India-Pakistan conflict happens, causes Biraderi Bros and Hindutva Boriswavers riot each other and cause the far-right to surge to new highs politically. Thanks Boris!
(I mean it sounds absurd but the Pandemic & lockdowns have made people more violent IMVHO. Kinda explains a lot of conflicts since 2020 all around the world especially Thailand Vs Cambodia, I mean would've that happened even 10 years ago?) Lol yeah just rambling from me :/.
Blair would have gone for them. Blunkett would. Brown would. I can't think of a member of the top team in Blair's period who would not be gunning for Reform now.
They are gunning for him - just no, sadly, on this. Which feels like a moral failure
As others have said, giving taxpayers cash to the Taliban is not popular. Can't believe I just typed that because it's so bleeding obvious, I honestly don't know why every minister hasn't been saying it to any question on any subject during all interviews over the last week.
And neither are coked up football lads!
My hope is that they were busy resetting the no.10 team and this was a holding pattern crouch until conferance. Hope.
C) is the worst bit
Which makes it worse, really. I mean the Tories used to say Starmer would say anything to get into power and dump any principle to win and frankly I'm starting to think they were right. I'd like him to prove them and me wrong.