I personally think the Myrtle Ave (and Dyre Ave) Line should be a forced transfer to go to Manhattan as it is at night. The lower operating costs from the shorter line line length could be invested in higher frequency.
Replies
White Plains Road cannot terminate enough trains by itself to make this work. Through-routing Dyre with WPR in 1957 led to a significant increase in train frequencies from E180 south thanks to the increased terminal capacity (previously trains had to short turn as early as Simpson Street).
aug 29, 2025, 8:02 pm • 1 0 • view
What is the terminal capacity at 242 Wakefield, and is it possible to add tail tracks? I think with three tracks on White Plains Road, the line should be a full trunk. Another option would be no express tracks at rush hour and half service past Simpson off-peak and full service peak.
aug 29, 2025, 10:32 pm • 0 0 • view
I am unsure how that is a service improvement. Simpson Street has not been used as a terminal since the 1940's and the requisite interlocking plant no longer exists. Bronx Park was demolished in 1952 to remove a flat junction, and thus there are no longer any short turn locations south of E180.
aug 30, 2025, 1:42 am • 1 0 • view
Dyre Avenue trains cannot terminate on the center track at E180 without a flat crossing of the WPR main tracks in both directions. Access to the NYW&B platforms is no longer possible in the southbound direction without significant single-tracking and wrong-railing on the northbound WPR local track.
aug 30, 2025, 1:42 am • 1 0 • view
If money were no issue, could you do something like 12/12 tph Nereid/Wakefield peak and 8/8 tph off-peak -- all to IRT 7th Ave. Express -- and convert Dyre and Harlem to pocket tracks (or some ALM Line from Dyre to across 145th St. connecting to all the lines)?
aug 30, 2025, 4:14 am • 0 0 • view
In theory yes, but this has no real benefit to riders. There isn't sufficent density north of E180 to warrant sending more than about 12 TPH to either Dyre or 241st; branching there is fine. Nereid is only used as a 2nd terminal on the Wakefield branch for peak hour trips that go to/from the yard.
aug 30, 2025, 3:32 pm • 1 0 • view
(Side note, in my opinion deinterlining the Bronx IRT is not feasible without finishing the currently proposed SAS extension across 125th Street, as WPR demand actually skews somewhat towards Lex and even in its rebuilt state 149-GC is still not sufficent to handle the likely amount of transfers.)
aug 30, 2025, 4:11 pm • 1 0 • view
If we're doing an ALM in the Bronx the best option is to build an entirely new crosstown route either in the Cross-Bronx median or down Fordham Road/Pelham Parkway (preferably both).
aug 30, 2025, 4:11 pm • 1 0 • view
For ALM in the Bronx, I think Fordham is grossly overrated for both trams and ALM. South Bronx Hub/Melrose is growing as a place of employment, so I have (1) 145th/Broadway to Dyre via 145th/St. Nick, 145th/Lenox, 149/GC, 149/3, and Hunts Point.
aug 30, 2025, 7:08 pm • 0 0 • view
Fordham Road/Pelham Parkway is not overrated for rail. It is the busiest bus corridor in the Bronx by a significant margin, with over five times the ridership of the Bx15 and three times that of the Bx6. It is also the only reasonably straight route that has easy transfers to every line it crosses.
aug 31, 2025, 10:32 pm • 0 0 • view
This lets Dyre keep its 3rd/149th and GC/149th Connection while adding Hunts Point and transfers all the Manhattan-bound lines except SAS-125th. Also, gives Washington Hts. a stronger connection to South Bronx Hub.
aug 30, 2025, 7:08 pm • 0 0 • view
This I agree with. You can't de-interline IRT Bronx w/o SAS connecting to Lex.
aug 30, 2025, 7:17 pm • 0 0 • view
I'd go one step further, and argue that w/ SAS connecting to the West side lines, the Lex Express stop at the 59/Lex Station should be discontinued. The West Side Lines uptown should have to transfer to SAS for a two-seat ride to 63/3, and from Queens, the 60th St. Tunnel ...
aug 30, 2025, 7:17 pm • 0 0 • view
... should have to transfer at Union Sq. to go Express Downtown (or just continue to enjoy the one-seat ride to FiDi).
aug 30, 2025, 7:17 pm • 0 0 • view
No absolutely not. I often use the 60th-Lex connections to shortcut my way back from Queens, via N/W to 4/5 to M86 to get back home. And of course all the trips on Lex express that simply end at 59th
aug 30, 2025, 10:53 pm • 2 0 • view
Okay, you're right. On the 2/3, would 8/8 tph each off-peak work for Wakefield/Dyre and 12/12 tph each work for peak? 16/24 tph off-peak/peak is probably all the operating costs New Yorkers are willing to pay to send trains from 241 or Dyre to Brooklyn College.
sep 3, 2025, 2:53 am • 0 0 • view
8/8 is approximately the current midday split. Current rush frequencies on the combined 2/5 are about 20-22 TPH (about 12/10 towards WPR including the put-in 5's); this is mostly limited not by reverse-branching but by the terminal at Flatbush, hence the 8 to New Lots in the MTA's Rogers fix plan.
sep 3, 2025, 6:03 pm • 0 0 • view
That plan notably assumes the existing service patterns on the north end. In short, to take full advantage of any capacity increases from deinterlining the Bronx IRT, precisely one reverse-branch (New Lots) is absolutely necessary to absorb the service that cannot terminate at Utica or Flatbush.
sep 3, 2025, 6:07 pm • 0 0 • view
Even if WPR & Dyre aren't getting service increases through de-interlining, Jerome is, which mitigates a little of the overcrowding at GC/149 transfers from de-interlining IRT Bronx. It is likely to get 16-20 tph off-peak (great for Yankees games) and 24-26 tph peak.
sep 3, 2025, 7:34 pm • 0 0 • view
No, the ETA line has been that there should be brief tunneling in the cemetery to avoid a street-running zigzag and the MTA should look into ALM technology instead of light rail.
aug 29, 2025, 7:28 pm • 4 0 • view
I do agree that you almost certainly have to tunnel under the cemetery to make IBX competitive with the L to Midtown. Absolute rights of way matter when the competition has absolute rights of way.
aug 29, 2025, 7:52 pm • 2 0 • view