I agree with your point about copying community infra badly. -- This conversation is challenging because we're bouncing around in timeframes, constraints, and considerations. -- I originally addressed your critique of the hashtag and asked what you would have proposed in 2007.
I think the hashtag was a fun hack and did provide utility at the time. Lots of times these kinds of hacks/emergent behaviors are signs that a product is missing some good feature. Just like ad-hoc @ and RTs got turned into core features, so should have interest-based communities been productized.
Super interesting thread. My 2¢ - I'm not sure folk open BlueSky/Twitter for the same reason/vibe/exp that folk open Reddit (or FB). Porting features or trying to homogenise doesn't seem wise. Hashtags fit a microblog vibe: emergent, quick, easy. Communities are intentional + for elsewhere.
For clarity, what I'm trying to say is about 'intention' ... One joins a subreddit / FB Groups / forums – with subject-matter intention. The intention (for most, I suggest) on bsky/tw is more vicarious, curious, serendipitous. That's why Twitter communities failed. Horses for courses etc. 🖖
You could not be more wrong about this. That’s not what people wanted from Twitter. Nobody joined Twitter saying “I can’t wait to join a small community of individuals who are one particular interest.” Twitter was about braindumping whatever you were thinking about on any topic into a firehose.
I'm much less interested in what twitter "was" than what it could have been, had it kept evolving. Twitter completely failed to achieve strong retention and mainstream adoption, the way Reddit/YouTube/Instagram did. There were posts like the following for a many years without any meaningful fixes:
You seem to think users will tell you how to evolve a product. That's not how it works. Users identify problems, often in confusing ways, and then you (as the app developer) develop solutions. Users are busy, don't know all the options, lack the necessary context, and it's not their damn job.
Users will tell you how to evolve a product no matter what. Product design is the process of assimilating all of these requests and mashing them through constraints, while also maintaining an eye towards overall coherence and usability. As a product leader, I wouldn't outsource my role to users.
We’re saying the same thing.
Wait no, but I'm talking about how *gestures around* feels like in 2025, things weren't like this in 2018
The issues were different/less crazy but the chaotic nature of Twitter was the same. No one really enjoys the disorganized chaos. Some just tolerate it better. One example: since Twitter launched users had been asking for a way to follow someone for only specific topics they were interested in.
I pretty intensely agree with almost everything you’re saying but I don’t think it needs to be either/or. To continue to use your Reddit example, I’m sure a *ton* of people use their main feed that’s a collection of posts from the subreddits they subscribe to.
I also think mixing community + interest is risky. You can like a topic but not the single dominant community that represents it. And there being a single dominant community for a topic might discourage others from forming.
I was thinking about this angle... what if the mods for a dominant subreddit are asshats? Once again, you're left with gatekeeping and politics... whereas hashtags are a battle royale that demands constant upkeep and participation.
One's not better than the other per se, but property rights, once established, tend to grow and disenfranchise over time.
Yeah, and not even necessarily asshats, but just some subsection of the community or some group with some specific opinions/views…
"...since Twitter launched users had been asking for a way to follow someone for only specific topics they were interested in." Yep, that was me! 😊 factoryjoe.com/2007/08/25/g...
18 years ago, and we're still where we were 😬
Kinda my entire point…
Sorry, I know I'm daft. To summarize, what is your entire point?
That it's been a very long time and very obvious weaknesses in the Twitter product were never fixed. (I've got no beef with you or anyone else that may or may not agree with me)
lol, I didn't even realize you two had a long running tech beef when I tagged @chrismessina.me in on this. It's refreshing in a way since yours is longer running than mine!
your assumption that this is a problem that needs fixing as incorrect. It’s just the way things are. it’s not a product problem. simply an observation.
I partially agree with both of you 😉 The "everyone in one room" aspect of Twitter was indeed its strong point, and it's why I've been using Twitter until last year and why I like Bluesky now, and why I've only used Reddit for some periods of time in some specific topics (ehem, crypto)
But also Jake is right that often I only want to read some topics that someone is posting about and not others, but I can only follow them completely or not at all… so I think there is some space for some topic categorization if done right.
Could outline hashtags do it? 😉 Maybe, who knows? But also I don't want fully separate "community subreddits" like the Twitter Communities, because for a lot of people I do actually want to read everything they are posting on any topic, that's how you expand beyond your current interests
I’m not dogmatic about the solution but I think a solution is necessary. I also think if it’s done well we’re not giving up anything we have now. Just adding something we don’t have. There’s no reason people can’t just post on their own profiles like they do now.
Agreed that it probably makes sense to start experimenting with new things and not just sticking to the feature set of Twitter 2018 forever as some kind of dogma… But also agreed with others here that probably not everything and the kitchen sink needs to be in the Bluesky app / app.bsky ;)
So I guess the key is to have a good product manager who can make good decisions about what fits well into the vision and what is too unrelated… cc @internet.bsky.social ;)
Jake is not the only gold in this giant comment tree for @internet.bsky.social to learn from :]
no pressure!
So you’re saying they would have to put some sort of optional indicator on their post indicating what community it’s directed at? And then you would just filter those into or out of your feed, using mute or custom feed generators? So… hashtags with extra steps.
Are subreddits hashtags with extra steps?
No, because you can’t post a generally-available post to a global Reddit feed with no subreddit. Reddit is not structured like Twitter or Bluesky. They’re different. And shoehorning subreddits into Bluesky would be incredibly foolish BECAUSE they’re different.
Every Reddit user profile is effectively a subreddit. Basically Twitter. Did adding video to Twitter make it YouTube? Did adding images make it Instagram? You’re confusing features with products. All of these social apps have many overlapping features and uses. They’re still distinctive apps.
Yeah, something *exactly* like Reddit wouldn't fit here, it's something that other ATProto apps should do. But perhaps there is a space for something like, halfway between?… Community topic feeds where posts appear that you've posted to e.g. # uspol, but with those posts also being in Following?
Or you could call it "make hashtags gr…" sorry :p
I'm working on building out this capability and building my own feeds. See my github.com/blebbit/at-m... project But first, "permissioned spaces" via my patches here: github.com/blebbit/atpr...