À better measure of the US economy would be how the bottom 33% are making do on their income, rather than how the top 10% are making do in the stock market.
À better measure of the US economy would be how the bottom 33% are making do on their income, rather than how the top 10% are making do in the stock market.
I love this. Can we do it? What practical, relatable, measurable things might we report? Brainstorming! % who are overdue on a bill? % who have not visited a dentist in over a year? % without reliable transportation? % without health care? % who own a home? % who work two or more jobs?
Homeownership percentage has been in the mid 60s for 50 years
Yet it's reported now that about 25% of recent home sales are corporate buyers.
First numbers I found were 19% investors but even 25% would be consistent with 65% being owners.
It's been wild since the mortgage crisis. My former law firm represented many corps in GA that swooped in to buy foreclosures, failed subdivisions still being developed, apartment complexes, etc., on the cheap, & that trend is ongoing, only now more are simply buying up homes to rent out.
3/6, working on getting a second job so 4/6 soon lol.
Add to it. % rental increases & evictions % food v. medication purchases % car repos % decrease in eating out per month % drop in movie attendance ETC.
Wall St analysts and economists track many of these but steeped in industry jargon and framed on profits or macro indicators, and not centered on citizen welfare Auto loan delinquencies in particular are a poor sign Outdated but Lipstick sales rising indicated affordable mini luxury vs new dress
The aggregate annual Depreciation of Automobiles owned by consumers never made the cut. There were only 200,000,000 motor vehicles in the US in 1995. About 80% of them were owned by consumers.
Car markets have been a weird thing lately, no? COVID supply issues, tariff threats, and consumers may own the car for uber (once as subleased taxi) I sold my 10 year old SUV, not much paper depreciation with inflation and used car demand
Another consumer indicator; upper tier personal care products. People will hang on to the good stuff before switching over to lower cost product. Everything we are talking about is effing rock solid and something to pay attention to.
I know. I was really just letting off steam after hearing some sad stories. I did not know about lipstick sales tracking! That's interesting.
Lipstick sales may be a bit dated now ? I’ve not seen recent data, but as a concept it refers to self care mini-luxuries. So now that may be fancy water bottles and skin care
I can see that. Or even other service sales, like getting one's nails done.
Not sure on nails if that would hold or not given the frequency and often maintenance nature of the expense. Hair salon visits/bills get paired down on hair coloring - watch vogue for “recession brown” coming back in style or at home color kits vs expensive salon blonde highlights
Also, % of homebuyers that are 1st time buyers.
Great data points to track. 👍
The great Jim Hightower, former Ag secretary of Texas had a bit about that. Instead of the Dow Jones index on Wall street, let's talk about "the Doug Jones index" on Main Street. Here he is, asking as Robert Reich does, who needs corporate democrats? jimhightower.substack.com/p/shouldnt-t...
Exactly! I’ve been saying this for years. Main Street is more important than Wall Street. I know that both must co-exist, but Wall Street depends on Main Street. It’s the bottom 90% that makes the top 10%. This is capitalism gone terribly wrong!
Main Street has been in decline since 2008. The vast wealth accumulated by big box stores has continued to wipe out small independent businesses because they can't compete with the bulk purchasing power of big ones. Independent businesses are suffering due to tariffs and shipping cost increases.
And, for the record, this isn't capitalism gone terribly wrong. It's exactly where we were headed when we decided to embrace the whole free market bullshit. It's all about padding the bank accounts of those on the top while also taking as much as possible from those on the bottom.
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Exactly right.
bsky.app/profile/gene...
100%
You’re so right
The bottom 33% of Americans, as you put it, live much better than 90% of the rest of the world.
Absolutely right! And salaries of Congress and the President should be the median income of all Americans.
Damn good point. Unfortunately, that will never happen. The top 10% would never allow it. Sort of like the Epstein Files. They've been gone a long time. Whatever is presented to the world now has absolutely nothing to do with the originals...if there actually ever were any. We e been played👽
You realize that how the top 10% is doing in the stock market dictates whether they’re hiring or firing the bottom 33%, right?
Supply and demand for workers dictates hiring or firing more than stock market returns. You sound stupid af
Is a company’s stock performance indicative of demand for that company’s products and/or services? Does demand for a company’s work drive demand for company workers?
You’re espousing the trickle down effect, long disproven. Stock/share price performance does NOT have a direct correlation with the standard of living of most people
Yes the lives of normal people have been incredibly unaffected during each major stock market crash
For most of the past decade, markets have been on a significant rise. But most people’s standard of living has dropped: food and accommodation costs rising significantly faster than wages, more and more people now in precarious employment in the gig economy
Real median wage (median wage after inflation) has been steadily climbing since 2014. Which again is tangential to: do you think normal people are affected by the stock market crashes?
You left out comparison analysis on cost of living vs median wage, and limited the wage data only back to 2014? How convenient. What about this comparison "Since 1980, the cost of living has increased over 300%. The average wage has increased 24%. Please tell me how that makes us any better off"
I’m literally replying to a post that starts “for most of the PAST DECADE”
Whatever, yet your reply only mentioned 2014 median wage info? You left out any accommpanying comparison on cost of living for the PAST DECADE, correct? You can reply to Amelia's quote which included comparison analysis on both cost of living and median wages. It's disingenuous to only mention 1?
It's gonna get tougher since govt fired hundreds of thousands, killed work improvement projects resulting in unemployment for more thousands, stopped or restricted needy people assistance like Medicaid, Snap, meals on wheels, FEMA, school lunches, etc? Plus tariffs raise prices-foreign & domestic🙁
Yup! And that's why I don't care when I hear the economy is booming or gdp is up. There hasn't been a single time in my 39 years alive that a booming economy actually made my life better. Gdp going up never raised my wages Corps making record profits, we have less than ever, and still losing more
#ArrestTrump #FightFascism
Hell yes! However the Republicans KNOW how the bottom 33% is doing because they PUT them in poverty and work hard at KEEPING them there.
Last time i saw. 78% of americans live paycheck-to-paycheck. Eternal debt, also classified as slavery.
This would be smart for a campaign, tracking that data.
Yeah that was a huge focus of Bernie's campaigns (among others such as Andrew Yang) but he was too 'radical' and hardly anyone paid attention.
Exactly.
The bottom 33%? Inaccurate.
It's just a comparison.
The bottom 33 percent scraping the floor. The bottom is the entire working poor. Do not say shit so incredibly inaccurate. We are all the bottom
Instead of reporting on the state of the DJIA every 20 minutes, NPR could do something like this. As a treat.
@kairyssdal.bsky.social
Truth!
Every economy. Not just the US. The stock market means squat to the majority of us. I have no shares and likely to have none. But I have to buy fuel and food and keep being robbed by the yearly increases in those
I wonder what metric on the daily news would encourage action. The poverty line does not seem to get much attention or change things. The unemployment rate even if low masks the area by area rates that can show much higher rates. There is the global poverty daily rate. worldpoverty.io
Daily sickness rate? Just like during COVID, with daily press briefings in New York. If they did that with all diseases, and the people missing out on healthcare today because of poverty, etc. Although, even with the deaths from the Vietnam war regularly on the news it did not quickly end the war.
Unfortunately, apathy and selfishness have overtaken caring about one's neighbor. Many people who get a decent paycheck, have healthcare coverage, a car, and a home really don't care about those who can't afford even the basics. "They should get a better job" - like those exist everywhere.
WHAT fucking US eKonomy? Trillions in Debt Print some more money. for your teslas, big macs and bud light.. Even Keynes would be proud #lolX
If you made this point a year ago, all of the replies would be liberals telling you you're lying and a trump supporter.
Yes!
Perhaps - but when the rich do poorly, the rest do feel it later. It shouldn't be this way, but when ceos are as rich as they are, - any drop in revenue gets shoved onto workers rather than executives. So in other words, it might be a quicker indicator to watch the 'ones about to fck us over'
Exactly, I've been saying this for YEARS and it's mindblowing just how many people still disagree with this sentiment. Especially when homelessness skyrocketed 18% nationwide in the US last year even though the stock market was doing 'well'.🚩🚩🚩
Especially since the big market numbers concern speculative investments (gambling) on mostly overpriced and inflated goods, by the top 25% who have enough disposable income. I don't have enough money to waste anything.
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I don’t know if I’m in bottom 33, but I know I’m not in top 10. We are struggling- propane up 50%, electric up 30%, health insurance up 20%, food up A LOT. Salary-not up-may get a 2-3% raise in January
Lower income people never matter. It’s time for the millionaires and billionaires and trillionaire’s to pay their fair share. Just imagine if they pay taxes on what they earned nobody in this country would be poor. Then trickle down might work.
I'm not so sure, but it would likely help!
Good point. There needs to be a “Dollar General” metric as opposed to being fixated on the S&P or Dow Jones Industrial Average.
There are actually a few good articles on this already, including how dollar stores and thrift stores are some of the only businesses that always see growth in a struggling economy.
We have an equivalent here in Canada called Dollarama. It basically follows the same model though is less geared to the rural market, often being situated in urban centers.
True, I go there often. I'm thinking they may be owned by the same company? Or use the same distributor? I've noticed they carry much of the same products but more variety in CA. Great Canadian Dollar Store, too but their prices seem a tad higher. A bit more like Dollar General etc in the US maybe.
Gotta admit to having some degree of affection for Dollarama. I once sent them a complimentary email gratuitously lauding them for selling rice pudding in a can (from Belgium!) and got a $15 gift card in return.
Bahaha that's pretty great!
Oh, yeah! Maybe that's a way for local Dems here in Tennessee & elsewhere DGs are located to gather both hard & anecdotal data. They sure won't have any trouble finding stores...one on almost every corner...
I’m curiously attracted to videos from guys who tool around the backroads of the US, visiting small towns and such (equal parts fascinating and depressing) and it’s amazing how prevalent the Dollar General is in these places.
If it weren't for DG store prevalence, we couldn't give directions in the South. 😄 My Oklahoma cousins used to laugh at me for not giving directions using N, S, E & W, only left, right & straight. We also use minutes instead of miles most of the time.
I can imagine. www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzxL...
A notable percentage of people living in rural areas like ours (SE GA) do an awful lot of their shopping at Dollar General because major grocery chains don't profit in rural locations. We live in a 'city' of 5,000. They just built our third DG. There are 10 - 12 of within 20 mi of our home.
They meet a need no one else seems willing to fill. The newer ones have expanded their offerings to include produce - and their prices are lower than our small local conservative-owned grocery store. We know more people are shopping there because they run out of produce and other items every week.
As the cost of living continues to increase while wages are stagnant, more and more people will have to resort to shopping at places like Dollar General because their products, while inferior in quality, are cheaper and more readily available.
Wrong F-word
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The stock market has always been a false flag.
In certain ways, I'd agree.
Well, it doesn't measure the average person's wealth or that of low income folks. Which is why it's a terrible bell weather for Congress, who don't think of the little guy much.
They don't think of the poor at all unless it is to assure further marginalisation or rules to suppress their anger and protest. Time for a clear out and a new way of running our nations. Citocracy anybody. bsky.app/profile/robi...
capitalism measures the wealth of the 1%; humanism measures the paucity of poor people;
Exactly - it's always that! Because the super rich are making more and more as they gouge everyone on pricing, big shock! The bottom earners and disabled, those are the measure of how good a country is doing! We need many more people to understand that. #RegisterDemocrats
More like three paychecks but YUP.
Truth.
Even the "bottom" 90%
Why they remove food and energy is ridiculous. Everyone needs and uses those things. Everyone must pay for them so why not count them too? Also since the federal government mandates it, auto insurance costs should also be factored into daily costs of living.
My disability benefits amount to $1,996 per month or less than $24,000 per year. This is why we need the section 8 program. Our portion of our rent is $773 (it went up by $3 this year). Without section 8, our rent would be $1,153 per month.
If they're going to be kicking people off of section 8 then they're going to find out real quickly how woefully inadequate and outdated the current federal poverty guidelines are. If they want everyone to be self-sufficient, then disability benefits need to be increased along with raising the
federal poverty line to $36,000/yr.
I'm incredibly fortunate to have made enough to draw "so much" SS income to be ineligible for most government assistance. It kills me to see friends drawing so much less than my housing cost, who do qualify for SNAP, for instance, but only get $16/mo. for food.
Right now, my partner (common law) gets SNAP and we're just two friends living together that prepare meals separately 🤞) and she gets $257 per month.
That's me! Been that way my entire life too! Make just over the line so don't qualify for the "extra help" on Medicare expenses but not enough for the food budget either. Whenever I have applied for SNAP, I got 1 full month after a partial month, and then they (Michigan) cuts it down to just $10
per month! I'm like, "why fucking bother applying?"
Or how many homeless people there are.
the distribution of the pie 🥧 is of fundamental importance in how a society is judged
We're not making do.
US federal poverty line is 15k a year! You can't rent an apartment in any county in US on that and still have money for food. This is extreme poverty. 40 million Americans live under this. Progressives need to push to change it to 26k a year. This would force action on poverty
It should be $36K/yr. Why? Because you can't rent for any less than $1K anywhere and $12K/yr would be about 30% (CFP recommended ⅓ of income for rent) means that the federal poverty line should reflect this reality.
In the 60s is when they came up with the poverty line by taking cost of food x3. Clearly this is not adequate but its still used. If we just pushed to change this it would destroy the myth they are trying to create. 40 million currently under 15k!
I figured up a new more accurate "basket of goods" a few years ago and ran the numbers. Today's federal minimum wage should be closer to $38 per hour right now.
Wow! I'm on SS and only get just above poverty line. There are hundreds of thousands of disabled on the streets because their SS isn't enough for rent. Subsidized housing takes years to get then its 30% of your income. And we are doing zero for housing crisis. Maybe we need housing stamps
I'm NOT playing around.
There are two types of social security disability. SSDI is for those like me with a long paper trail for a work history while those with unverifiable incomes (cash under the table jobs) get SSI which is a calculated bare minimum which currently is $997 per month. I get SSDI while my partner has
SSI. I have traditional Medicare parts A, B, and D. She has Medicaid. She has zero co-pays for everything, while I get charged premiums and 20% copays after deductible and pit of pocket bullshit. They can bill all they fucking want but they will never force me into bankruptcy ever again over medical
They are trying like Hell to privatize Medicare and I'm telling them to go fuck right the Hell off. I've got chronic health issues and I'm not authorizing another Brian Thompson. Fuck that noise!
Motherfuckers will NOT Brian Thompson my ass!
I will die all on my own, without any fucking "help" from Republicans or evangelicals or conservatives. They can all go fuck right the Hell off.
I feel you. I also have chronic illness. Doctors and system is useless. Are you a Brian Thompson fan?
That hospital stay in 2004 was my first oppotunistic infection. That's how I found out I was HIV +. But it was more than just that, it was also surviving sepsis, the rate allergic reaction to Heparin known as HIT which gave me a DVT behind my knee, and CHF to the tune of an EF of just 21%. It was
I'm a Luigi Mangione fan! Free Saint Luigi 💕
I'm aware. I have ssdi. Its still not enough for rent and I het more than many. I'm single, that doesn't help
$26,000 isn't enough to live on, either. The average rent for a 1BR apartment in this country is $1,600. That's $19,200 a year, which leaves $483.33 to pay for utilities, insurance, groceries, transportation, and incidentals. A living wage would be $26 - $30 an hour.
Well it should be tied to cost of living in area. But imagine if it was changed to 30k then the majority of Americans would be officially in poverty. They intentionally keep it absurdly low fir a few reasons. The US has more people in extreme poverty than entire pop of Venezuela.
The whole cost of living thing is bullshit. Yes, we pay less for our mortgage than we would in an urban area. We also have to drive over an hour for decent medical care, grocery options for people with special dietary needs, and more than Dollar General or Walmart for clothing and incidentals.
Ut we must admit its far more expensive in certain areas. Maybe we only attack housing. As a human right and should only be 10% of your income. Inflation on housing has far exceeded other Inflation. Certainly we are getting screwed by every direction. Corp democrats do nothing and Rs are worse
Housing, healthcare, access to food and other necessities, a living wage, paid sick leave, affordable child care, a robust public transportation system, a decent educational system, and accommodation for the disabled. These are the absolute minimum. Those are basic human rights.
100%. But they call this radical left, even majority of Dem party and media. Meanwhile Rs openly talk about seeking authoritarian policies like Orban in Hungary and they are not called radical and media ignores it
Because media is making money hand over fist by sanewashing the actions of a demented narcissist with a god complex --and those who worship him.
Let's not forget they are corporations and tied to MIC. A corporate fascist coup might be exactly what they want
It needs to be changed to reflect the greedy, apathetic, elitist society in which we live. People need to stop pretending the poor want to be that way - that we choose to be paid less than what we're worth because we're either lazy or unmotivated. It's time for reality to come into the house.
Best comment I have read this morning👏
Trump creates income inequality and hopelessness, then blames homelessness as a reason to bring our once great military and the J-6 terrorists that are now ICE and Border Patrol in to beat and drag them away to who knows where.
kibroz.com/ushma
Job growth is really the best marker imo since it indicates both demand for the end product and supply integrity needed to hire
A valuation of a company’s worth should also include how many people they employ and the benefits they provide to their workforce.
I can speak for clients of Dominion Energy in Virginia, North Carolina and South Carolina. When we all saw our electric bills double for July, for the same usage as June 2025 and July 2024, it put a mighty big hurt in the family budget.
One could do both; the contrast would be informative.
It already is. Homelessness skyrocketed 18% nationwide just last year even though the stock market was doing 'incredibly well'. There are other statistics such as poverty level wages and income to consider as well.
Since the fecund felon has decided it's now against the law to be homeless, for-profit prisons will be booming in the next few years as those unfortunate enough to be poor are swept out of their encampments and locked up to be used for cheap or free labor.
Exactly, though homelessness has been demonized all along. Ableism, capitalism, and exploitation of the lower classes have always been incredibly dehumanizing. It's just getting MUCH, MUCH worse.
Yep. It's one reason why, though I appreciate Newsom calling out the felon, I can't support him. Suggesting cities in CA sweep homeless camps every 3 days, forcing people to move what few belongings they have if there's time to collect them, is cruel and inhumane. His transphobia doesn't help.
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Well, no, because you're measuring two different things. The capacity to engage in business and generate products, is not the same thing as the capacity to provide a safe and satisfying life. More policies should be based on social scores than business scores, but let's not confuse the two
Everyone should use this measure
When we start to assess all global economies based on how the bottom end of the economy is faring, it will be a great liberation for citizens as a group. The focus and measurement of how the top end of the economy is faring is unjust and smacks of why we are in the shit that forces us to measure.
The McDonald's Index.
Brilliant name for it 👏
Isn't that Gross Purchasing Power?
we aren’t doing well.
True this!
The lopsided economy will catch up with the oligarchs. Of course, the harm to them will be manageable. We're closing in on having our first trillionaire.
No kidding!
Yes yes yes yes
But then the wealthy couldn't claim what a great country this is.
Why? How would that measure economy? People on welfare with several kids? So how wojld you measure their effect on us economy? Food stamps? Living off the rest of us? Please explain. Serious
The only thing the stock market now measures is how well the government and the 1% are manipulating a casino (disclosure, I was a FINRA registered Rep for 13 years, and even 2 decades ago, I realized how badly technology had turn the market into one big SCAM).
Everyone empowering Trump needs to realize that consolidating the power of the President through loopholes in the law is going to give the NEXT one ALL of those abilities. You may love Trump, will you be just as in love with who is up next?
Aye, that's the rub - & they don't believe it will happen.
i’m saying yes! let’s get the true measure
good grief we’re not lacking in computers, let’s see a breakdown by the femtosecond in analog fashion on vinyl
it would be a vastly more accurate measurement of the 5-10 year outlook
I'm sure it would, but with this administration concealing and/or deciding the numbers, how will we ever really know?
these numbers usually become obvious but you’re right to question. We could actually start seeing fake accounts drawing benefits. Every accusation is an admission now
Exactly
I don't understand why the US is being emphasized here — this is such a global problem that it can't be solved by just one country... unless you want to do it at the expense of other countries... which is not sustainable in long run.
Not good. All the car insurance, health insurance and other monthly vendors have increased their fees and prices at least 20%.
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Using the stock market and housing starts to gauge economic health tells you all you need to know about the priorities.
The stock market measures how much has been stolen from WORKERS!!!
I’m not making do. I don’t know how many times I’ve put utilities on credit cards this year, but it’s been too many
If I have to use credit cards for monthly expenses like utilities, I would consider myself just "making do." But that's me.
yeah ya never hear them talk about that do ya?
As a foreigner, it's my guess a chunk of the bottom 33% are from red states, but nobody wants to talk about them because Taco is trying to throttle & militarize blue states. The poor will be going under & messaging going to them is, it's all the Dems & immigrants faults, that needs to be dispelled.
I suspect you're quite right about the chunk being from red states.
Why not just be normal and use the median?
I could have. I believe in real data & good theory/practice, whether financial, scientific, medical, etc. However, when anecdotally info comes to me in big waves, I also make general observations from emotions & empathy. I'm glad folks are talking.
#This! The more wealth that is lost in our communities, the higher the crime rates. The less our government spends on quality public education, the higher the crime rates. The more that Private Equity firms need to profit from patients who frequent the hospitals they own, the higher the bankru-
A UBI and how much we can afford to increase it alongside housing first and how much the increased housing has deflated housing costs also, how much we have reduced the rate of incarceration and facilitated economic participation. Ooh, ooh, how many refugees we have accepted while properly…
… integrating them so that they don’t feel the security is dependent on citizenship. That’s would be a good starting point.
measuring economies based on the top tiers alone is like measuring a three legged race that allows people to chop the legs off of their partners and beat the other racers half to death with the dismembered leg and still declare them lone winner for reaching the finish line