Personally, I'm not too worked up about Trump's "Birthday Drawing" to Epstein. In high school, I used to draw pictures of my signature Goat, "Ralph," sporting an oversized penis to make my friends laugh. They did. Every time. That was what I was going for. Get down to the evidence that matters!
There’s a difference between HS boys and men in their 50s 😖
Sometimes. And...it's not as often as you'd like to believe. Just a human behavior fact.
It's not so much the drawing but the message, what are their "wonderful secrets" the entire message made my skin crawl. Plus he lied about its existence. True this is a very small part of the evidence that Trump was involved with Epstein's crimes.
This however is a graphic representation of someone else, someone owned, a girl victim and shared? etc etc Cryptic language... "secret" is a common term used by abusers Shared with the head of the #EpsteinPaedophileRing *gamine (enigma) also has sick meaning ...
He wasn't in high school when he (allegedly) did this. Normalizing misogyny just keeps it going.
I think the issue is the drawing looks more like a child than a grown woman.
Yes. Exactly
Thank you…💙💙💙💙
I noticed that as well. So creepy.
High school and being a man of 59 yrs are a bit different
I think this is the only stuff MAGAts understand/believe. They’ve already demonstrated the don’t listen to or believe the women.
Those still identifying as MAGA...will accept NOTHING as evidence.
magats don’t care about evidence as long as they have their hate and racism.
For me it’s the fact that he lied about it (shock 🙄), and it has disgusting innuendo. I get that it’s not enough, but I’m hoping the dam is breaking and soon there will be overwhelming evidence against him and all of the people who were abusing the girls.
What I would say about it that disturbed me, is that doesn’t look like a drawing of a woman. It looks like a child.
What disturbs me...is what these people DID to children.
Pedos do have a profile, there are certain things they can’t hide, because of their urges. This doesn’t look good on top of everything else we know about him.
💯💯💯💯💯
What disturbs me even more is that a significant percentage of everyday people could care less
Yes. They are called MAGA.
And how many people kept it under wraps, including law enforcement. So sickening.
WAY more than you think. www.miamiherald.com/news/state/f...
It’s time to bring justice to these women!
I agree! They’ve been through enough, they deserve peace and space to heal. They can’t do that until they get justice.
Absolutely agree. And also that he's lying about it all like he lies about everything...saying the letter didn't exist (oh look, it does) and that all of this is a hoax when nothing could be further from the truth.
It was a drawing of a naked female child with a sexually suggestive note. I’m worked up.
Abd yes, there is stuff more damn8ng than this.
Then you understand that this signature is a sign of ownership, and women might find that evidence of not so casual misogyny and also a prediliction to owning others. Not so harmless when you are marking a body, even an abstract one, not yourself.
Except that the drawing appears to be of an underaged girl, and some veiled references to the wonderful secret they engage in for men who have everything. Also, Rump denied the letter existed, so the signature comparison is relevant to show another lie.
Exactly. Big nothing burger when there’s plenty of real shit out there.
he drew a naked child and signed his name to it and then wrote a little poem about how they both like little girls and then instead of making it a big nothing burger by saying it was a joke and many years ago he doubled down and lied about it Is there more- sure- but this is more than enough
In a court of law...good luck proving that drawing is of a naked "child," we know what it was of...but...what we "know"... We already know they both liked little girls; We have the testimony from the girls themselves. Do NOT allow the media to make this about a drawing. Demand MUCH MORE.
I'm so frustrated by people insisting "It's a drawing of a little girl!" when there's no way to prove that. You might THINK that's what it is but what is is a female. With boobs. There's no way prove age. I wish Dems would just give up on the Epstein angle. They'll never get Trump with it. Ever.
of course I want MUCH MORE BUT I also am tired of pushing off things that would BURY anyone else. He was allowed to brush off admitting to assault on tape and brush off 20+ women accusing him of assault. We ALWAYS allow him to brush stuff off which is maybe why we don't get more is all I'm arguing
This drawing would never bury anyone...in any court of law...ever.
To me the denial and the subsequent lawsuit is more the issue. The note proves nothing indeed, which is why it's just so dumb to try and pretend he didn't know it. I mean it's typewritten so all he had to say was "I just signed my name on it". but he's too dumb to ever admit to anything
I would get fired for sending something like this out and it made its way to my employer. People have lost their jobs for posting tasteless and inappropriate garbage on personal social media. Sorry, Jack, the visceral response from women to all of this is fierce. It bolsters victims’ testimony.
Alone, no piece of evidence would convince twelve Americans of anything. It's always about a body of evidence.
Respect your opinion and not suggesting otherwise. It’s just the court of public opinion does still matter to weaken him and I think not letting him squirm out of lying about this matters. It’ll also gross a lot of people out.
Did you ever go to high school? Hang around boys? Have older brothers? They all draw stuff like this. ALL the time. That and dicks. It's vulgar, sure, but wouldn't bury anybody. It's just a crude drawing.
Agreed. It’s infantile and gross and stupid but that’s it.
No one is saying this is a smoking gun No one is saying you could use it in court All we are saying is that it shouldn’t get called “locker room talk” and allowed to be blown off It’s gross- it’s a pattern of behavior toward women - and it should be discussed as such.
It all matters
YES it all matters
That’s a child…not a young lady, not a woman, not a goat, a child!
Trump's Pedo Network: Tevfik Arif, Leon Black, Jean-Luc Brunel, J. Casablancas, Roy Cohn, Diddy Combs, Jeffrey Epstein, M Gaetz, Joel Greenberg, Anand Jon, Thomas Kramer, Tony Lazzaro, G. Maxwell, Robert Morris, George Nader, Tim Nolan, Ralph Shortey, Andrew Tate, H Weinstein, Cindy Yang, P Zampolli
Yes. The real evidence. The money. All the money. 💲💲💲. All the financial transactions. I wanna see who the enterprise co-conspirators are.
It’s a picture of a pubescent girl, that’s disturbing.
EXACTLY!
Writing "Enigmas never age" to a paedophile is evidence that really matters
The testimony of women who were abused...over and over....THAT...is what matters.
So is catching the men that did it. All of them.
There are NO STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS for sexual assault against minors in NY (many underage sex parties), NM (Epstein's ranch), US Virgin Island (Epstein island), and FL (if under 16). Cover up to protect pedophiles are nearing criminal conspiracy, obst of justice, and accessory after the fact.
And the reason for no statute is that the crimes are often against children who have no idea of what's happening to them at the time(they are threatened to keep the 'secret') and can sometimes only deal with it years later...
You’re right. And this letter gives their stories validity. They already testified to their abuse and they were not believed.
NO AMOUNT of additional evidence is going to make the people who didn't believe their testimony...believe it...and you know that. They didn't believe it...because it's not in their best interest to believe it. It's still not. It never will be.
They'll say it's "paid actors" & whatever other ridiculous 🐂💩like after Sandy hook & Parkland😡 god that pissed me off, unbelievably disgusting!🖕🏻I really hope karma is keeping track & they absolutely reap the consequences of the hate & ugliness they have sown all these years!
I’ve told MAGA for years - if it is paid, do it. Sign up. Show the interviews, screening, pay stubs, video/photo evidence - anything You’ll be so famous it’ll be like you came in 5th place at a college swim meet. And you’ll make MILLIONS as a MAGA celebrity Nobody has tried out my idea yet though
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie, “Ignorance acknowledged is an opportunity. Ignorance denied is a closed door.”
Yeah, the cognitive dissonance may be briefly painful, but the MAGA Groupthink, their need for conformity in the group, will still result in irrational decision-making. Exactly like the Nazi, or ICE for that matter.
People didn't believe it even when it came out of his own mouth. youtu.be/PVKukVC_S5g
Fact. And...a great example. A hell of a lot of people still haven't figured out what is relevant, regarding Trump...and what's not.
So many crimes, so little time
Is it relevant if it fits? Warning: cornea scarring might be reported.👀😱
So true
Well, you probably grew out of that stage of development. Trump never has.
I think the idea is that there will be 'others' who were 'close' friends at the time? I agree, the note is guy stuff childish, but in itself means nothing.
Drawings of girl children as sexual objects is anything but guy stuff childish, you 🤬🤬🤬🤬. Now if it had been oversized, in your face, grown woman tits, that would be guy stuff childish. Watch what you are so condescendingly dismissing. To raped girls, this drawing and its message are devastating.
And you can 'watch' who you're calling 'condescending". In this instance, it applies to you more than it does my comment. Have a nice day.
I meant to be condescending. Thank you for your attention to this matter.💙
Yes...and it should be great as part of establishing that Trump and Epstein had a closer relationship than, "Yeah...I met Epstein a couple of times."
I’m not a lawyer, but this is how I think this would be used as evidence. Question Trump why he wrote this birthday card to Epstein and maybe ask him what different parts of the card mean. Trump, being a moron, will likely blab and it will help convince a jury that he is guilty.
For real, did you or anyone else in your orbit write in this pig’s bday book….or fly on his plane
I also don't think the 'riding on the plane' thing is a 'confirmation' of anything other than rich/famous people hang out with other rich/famous people. Not everyone who went to the island was necessarily there for anything other than hanging out and meeting other people for biz or contacts.
All of this may be true, but no one who pals around with a notorious pedophile gets a pass from me….have you or would go to the island? Fly on the plane? I can say that I would not, not under any circumstances….
1) He wasn't in HS when he wrote this 2) It reveals he & Epstein were pals and their connection involved sexual matters (we know what Epstein's sexual proclivities were) 3) Trump sued the WSJ over this letter, claiming it was false 4) It's an piece of evidence that Trump is desperate to hide.
Yes, however, he was a grown man in his 30s, and the "shared secret" part, with a known pedophile, is pretty significant. Otherwise, I agree that we need much more than that.
It’s another brick in the lie wall. It’s a drawing of a young girl, but correct I want the stuff that will get him kicked off the island(no pun intended)
Yeah, I'm thinking it matters more because Trump swore publicly he never wrote a note for Epstein's birthday book and said he was going to sue the WSJ for reporting that he had.
oh, but it is an evidence that he lied when denying the existence of this....
It’s evidence which tends to support the assertion that Trump shared predilections with Epstein. And, of course, Trump claimed that the copy was fake. The estate has the original. The direct and best evidence spoke at 10:30 AM on Wednesday.
Any juror that's not a secretly fierce supporter of Trump would enter the courtroom already having a well-established bias/awareness of Trump's shared predilections with Epstein. Given what we now know about neurology, cognition, and emoting...we know it's not possible for that NOT to be the case.
I don’t understand your point. Evidence is evidence. Its value or lack is up to a jury. Even Trump supporters can honor oaths and follow instructions. I’ve already explained the potential value. If you’re a lawyer you already know this. If you’re not I understand a layperson’s confusion.
"Evidence is evidence," isn't quite the legal approach defense attorneys take. Its value isn't "up to a jury," if it's never allowed to be introduced as evidence...in the first place. My point is quite clear: This is being talked about because it's sensational for the media.
And he will continue to insist that it's a fake.
At least it’s showing he knowingly lied (again) but here we are able to see the action of the estate actually producing the “lie” to the committee and it was released. It’s more about the actions that give me some bit of “hope”. IMO.
It matters that Trump’s picture shows he is likely a paedophile.
Said like a true man.That drawing of a girl child that was rendered specifically by a pedo to a fellow pedo is just bullshit in manly-man world?God help the women in your life. DADDY needs you to not focus…on goat dicks and back room giggles…that’s just boys being boys. Wait?Didn’t Melania say that?
Did Trump send birthday cards to Epstein in prison?
Exactly. Distraction as entertainment as they ravage the U.S., the coupe continues. Don't Spin On Their Spin!
The doodle doesn’t depict woman’s breast… though… he drew a girl with breast buds… it’s horrid.
Did your goat also have a head and legs?
I understand where you are coming from, yes, release the files and prosecute them to hell. As a woman mother of a young woman I am disgusted by the reductionist nature of the picture- a headless, armless, defenseless female body with disgusting text. Publication of it may be what turns the tide.
🙏
Trump lied about it. Why?
There’s a whole lot to see in that drawing. A young woman with pre-pubescent breasts. No head. No legs. His signature on her crotch. As if he owns her. Just a woman’s perspective who has also experienced assault.
Lies from the President matter. All lies. Normalizing his deceit flies in the face of our expectation of honor and integrity from anyone holding the office.
It’s an important piece of evidence as he claims he completely broke with Epstein after he trafficked Virginia Guiffre from Mar-a-Lago. She was trafficked in 2000, the birthday note is from 2003.
not surprised
It does show he was on great terms with Epstein even at the "secrets" level at least thru that time. As well as the general nature of both juvenile men's thought process and focus. Not irrelevant. There is more incriminating evidence out there, if not already destroyed by Barr / Trump / Bondi.
It’s a really awful drawing. I had briefly thought the one circulating around that was far better was real, should have known better. That it’s awful is unsurprising, but it’s a bit of a stretch to suggest this crappy drawing is of a juvenile as many have done. ‘His crude crescents aren’t bosomy!’
Re-read the lawsuit he filed over this. This is a big piece for a lot of different reasons And it doesn’t mean your overarching point is wrong. It just means Conald sued over this not existing. Yet another brick in the Epstein wall…
He wasn’t in high school. He was a f*cking adult man. No excuses. He is a pervert.
I find the sketch extremely worrying, but no less than the words…these people are monsters.
I think what’s important about the drawing is that it shows state of mind, which is often a legal linchpin.
It isn't the drawing, it's the special secrets they share that he wrote about.
Catches him in ANOTHER lie. We’re conditioned to the lying. Sad.
Uh-huh. In high school.
You weren’t a grown ass man when you did that and you also aren’t the “president”
Both true. And, in terms of convicting anyone...also irrelevant.
I get what you’re saying, but I doubt he’ll ever be convicted of anything. I do think public sentiment matters here
If the GOP can ignore the Constitution, so can we. Impeach Roberts, Alito and Thomas. I am still thinking about the scumbag Kavanaugh. Probably him too. They lied. Under Oath.
This 'Birthday Drawing' provides a purient, disgusting visual that his base can understand without reading.
That was high school, you’re an adult now. It shouldn’t be dismissed that this is an adult drawing this and we should be drawing attention to the fact that the drawing isn’t exactly womanly shaped, rather young girl shaped.
You lost me (and every attorney in the world) with, "...isn't exactly womanly shaped.." When the descriptions must be that ambiguous...the drawing is something available to be outraged about...but not something to play a role in convicting Trump. The media leads with "outrage," by the way.
It looks young girl shaped. What pedophiles would like.
Jack you’re wrong here. Most everyone has keyed in on the fact that trump deliberately doodled an adolescent in this “wonderful secrets” birthday note
Sure it’s circumstantial evidence, but I think it passes the “any tendency” threshold (FRE 401)
My thoughts exactly.
You stepped in a pile of shit dude. When are you men going to learn to listen to the women. You’re probably sitting there feeling all smug and self righteous, thinking you’re one of the good guys, and you are. Doesn’t mean you aren’t thick as a brick. Listen to the OUTRAGED women…not the media.
Meow
You’re going to tell me with a straight face that that drawing is a more accurate representation of a woman than that of a young girl?
You were a child, he is a pedophile and was a grown adult with children of his own. Not the same in any way.
Difference is that you were in high school. These are grown men drawing pics of girls and this establishes he lied again. And yes they need to release all the evidence including those tapes.
If there is one thing no prosecutor has ever lacked...it's evidence that Donald Trump lies. Don't allow the media to make this about a drawing.
If there is ever a criminal prosecution of Trump for his role with Epstein, I guarantee that this drawing will be part of the People's case.
🎯
Almost as weak as digging up kavanaughs high school yearbook. Embarrassing. Weak fights. No wonder everyone is leaving. Stop bringing plastic spoons to a chainsaw fight ffs!
It should be about all the evidence including the drawing. Sorry Jack but your post seems to minimize the drawing of what could be an actual victim. Even you said that you drew a big penis. Trump drew under developed breasts of a child!
The distinction is the drawing is proof of gross humor, not crime. We cannot criminally prosecute poor sense of morality.
The distinction is that drawing and the enigma reference could be an actual victim. One of those girls could have been nicknamed by these assholes as an enigma and she is the only one who knows this. She could also be reading this post and reliving her trauma as you guys are minimizing her existence
Respectfully, I am saying the distasteful drawing is not in and of itself a crime, and the attention given the image takes away focus from the crime it is depicting - namely Trump r*ping a child. If anything, my position is an attempt to center discussion back on the victim(s).
So the drawing is good enough for the WSJ to use in their defense against trumps lawsuit but somehow you as a layman are telling all of us that it can’t be used against trump. As a woman it’s disgusting that you are still arguing with me while once again minimizing the victims. Very maga behavior.
A drawing of a young girl., don’t miss the subtlety.
And they remain unmasked and unidentified so SS do what ever you want. Thanks to lifetime appointments. Humans response to the government takeover by Nazis limited to only one. No taxation without representation, no illegal search and seizure, no king. 26 is coming vote them all out or?
This! ⬆️⬆️
He lied. The nature of the pic is in question because he is an adjudicated "rapist" and sexual abuser. You can draw all the nekkid ladies and big dicks as you want, so long as you are not actually out raping people. This matters because it shows how disgusting he was. The words matter. "Secrets"
Trump spent donor’s money on lawyers to threaten the Murdoch’s over this, knowing they had the proof of their claims. That matters. If this were pre-Trump America this would be the biggest sex scandal in history. But now it’s just another day.
I'm hearing that they also handed over some shady bank statements along with the booby drawing.
GOOD! Financial records and testimony. The more...the better.🔥 By the way...the media leads with this damn drawing...because it's a graphic they can SHOW...and show a million more times before midnight. NOT because in the grand scheme of things...it matters that damn much.
It's mostly, the fact that he lied about it that potentially means a whole lot..
Yeah Bill Clinton was accused of lying about Monica and it was headlines for months.
Getting attention matters though, and juvenile Trump made it looong after his high school years. But I agree following the money trail to Trump’s money laundering and his own sketchy trafficking of models is where the real damage lies.
It looks like a young girl.
Your point is valid- but let’s at least acknowledge that this Monster’s drawing was done in his middle age years and intended to amuse other peers his age and just not High school doodles - just another example of his lack of character.
That was me. My name is Ralph.
You were envied by many.
I'm with you! trumps life has been one giant joke. I'd like to see hard evidence that cannot be refuted.
Lots of us doodled, very few of us are credibly accused of rape and pedophilia.
Both true. That doesn't change how irrelevant this drawing is in a court of law...with Trump.
Women know it when they see it. We spend our whole lives dodging creeps. It may mean nothing in a court of law. But he wasn’t a high school kid. And that drawing made the hair stand up on the back of my neck!
The words, more so than the sketch, reveal an adult man who wallows in & celebrates deranged predation against children. It’s a blaring alarm into Trump’s fetid impulses Healthy men do not write like this. Don’t minimize it.
It may be irrelevant in court- but it will light a fire with the public, specially women. It is another drop in the water in terms of his depravity, but it will piss many people off. Maybe enough to keep up the pressure to release the files & prosecute.
Why do you care about its relevance in a court of law? The Epstein affair is all about beating Trump down in the court of public opinion. And a memorable story is exactly what will move the needle with the public. For those purposes, the more pictures the better.
Agreed, by itself irrelevant. Taken with the numerous on the record comments it contributes to depicting a pattern of behavior consistent with an offender with a preoccupation. Relevant in that context as it's dated to a time when he was allegedly committing crimes with the recipient .
Plus Trump lied voraciously about it.
Still is.
Never stops.
To me it only matters bc the phvcker lied about it and tried to pull the whole I never draw bullshit.
What about when you're 57?
Why...you want one? I'm sure I could still scrawl one out really quickly. Just let me know.
I'm not a pedophile. So I'll save you the effort. Thx though.
Good to know. We don't need any more child abusers running around.
Is it just me or is being an ass today?
Having 260k followers maybe, he's equating it with locker room talk, boys will be boys, yada yada If it was his signature, I wouldn't give a shit. POTUS, yeah, it's important I think.
And potus must have thought it was important - important enough to lie about it.
Well, you know, boys will be boys and locker room talk is how young men are groomed to objectify women if they aren't held to account and if jack dismisses this as such then just maybe he should come clean.
Today, I find myself exceedingly upset by this drawing and his written words to Epstein. I was 12 when a 50ish man dragged me into the woods and threatened to kill me if I screamed. I screamed, I fought, I escaped . Many women have similar experiences . Many did not escape. I’m triggered today.
Where there’s smoke, there’s fire. 🔥
Not a logical comparison.U were a hs boy, hs boys think drawing penises is funny, many hs boys draw penises 2 make their friends laugh.That’s pretty normal behvr. A 50+yr writing a creepy note 2 his pedo bff & scribbling a female torso on it is NOT at all normal. It’s further evidence of his guilt.
You weren't joking around about 50yo men raping children though. This is evidence.
I'm sure a defense attorney is going to have a field day with anyone claiming that this drawing is Trump joking about raping children. The testimony of the young women who were brutally abused...and financial records...that's the kind of evidence that wraps people up in knots.
That's not the evidential value of this. If he ever gets to trial, it shows that in 2003 Trump and Epstein were close. Pros will produce reams evidence like this over many years to show they were a "team" Eg NY Mag 2002 "“I’ve known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy,” Builds a compelling picture.
1/3🧵 That’s the problem, though...closeness isn’t a crime. You can stack up cards...quotes...and photos all day long and it still only proves what’s already uncontested: Trump and Epstein knew each other. A prosecutor can wave those artifacts around...but without hard evidence...money trails...
If Trump insists that he had nothing to do with the card, it might become a bigger deal. If he continues his suit against WSJ, it will be subjected to forensic analysis.
1/2🧵 Unfortunately, if it ever came to forensic analysis, all it would really prove is what nobody disputes...that Trump and Epstein knew each other and exchanged pleasantries. That’s not a crime...and it doesn’t advance the bigger case.
bsky.app/profile/over... New info just dropped..
2/2 At most...it undercuts Trump’s “barely knew him” defense...but even that isn’t new. The media will hype it...but legally and politically...it’s small potatoes compared to testimony...money trails...and the protection racket.
You're right but I want to see who else is in that book. Let's see where that could lead before we write off it's usefulness.
Since he is suing there should be interesting things in discovery
2/3 ...sworn testimony...travel logs that tie Trump directly to Epstein’s operation...it doesn’t move the ball forward legally. In fact, relying too heavily on “social clutter” risks backfiring in court. A good defense attorney would hammer the jury with:
3/3 “All they’ve shown you is that these men were in the same social scene...just like hundreds of others in Palm Beach.” That’s why I keep saying: the real case lives in victim testimony and financial records. The birthday card isn’t the big one...it’s a shiny object.
Exactly, and the more that comes out about the scene, the more women will come forward. We already have the Epstein g'friend who Trump was horrible to. We have the nurse uniform woman who was given to Trump by Epstein ...but we don't have the ages of these women. Its all coming out.
And actually, if this gets worse, Trump may be forced to step down....lets see. Then we have Vance who everyone hates and who does not have the balls for this situation...and has not had presidential immunity leading up to the moment he becomes Pres.
The videos, OTOH,
Apparently there ARE money trails.
And that...is BEAUTIFUL!😎
It’s not the drawing, it’s the words combined with the drawing — though even then, no, not a smoking gun. Best evidentiary value is likely that it invalidates his assertion it was a fake, therefore further eroding his personal credibility — which, in a sane world, would be significant.
Yes...in a sane world.
The testimony and the financial records, complimented by this damming birthday card, depict a cunning predator with no conscience.
How many were paid for silence as well? We know of two for sure already
Or shamed into it.
It’s a fools errand. We have to be fools, moral fools at that, and push it forward and keep fighting. But the value of the evidence doesn’t matter at the end of the day when Congress and SCOTUS are compromised and complicit in trumps other crimes and, therefore, will protract him at all costs.
the importance is that he swore it didn’t exist - this should hamper his BS lawsuit against the WSJ.
Given how poorly he reacted to the knowledge that this was in a book that Maxwell put together for his birthday, now I’m interested in what’s on the back of the card!
Hey, just came here to say. Something about the really great podcast you did on Operation Curveball. I really enjoyed the podcast. Great guest and great interview. In the podcast you asserted that technology never moves backwards once it makes gains, or something to that effect, but I disagree.
We lost the ability to make concrete for 1400 years. It was known and used and then with the collapse of the Roman Empire it was lost. Technology can be lost in a generation.
