I don’t know what the answer is here, but this messaging is guaranteed to fail There are a lot of middle American normies who have nothing against trans ppl existing but who care deeply about sports and perceived fairness
I don’t know what the answer is here, but this messaging is guaranteed to fail There are a lot of middle American normies who have nothing against trans ppl existing but who care deeply about sports and perceived fairness
There is no fair argument against trans people in sports. It is a manufactured crisis created by people who want trans people dead.
why do they care so deeply about this
There really aren't that many and the answer may include explaining to them why this fake issue doesn't matter, but the answer absolutely doesn't include your totally clever and original idea of just throwing trans people under the bus every time nazis try to invent a wedge issue.
man shut the fuck up
"denying reproductive rights isn't about misogyny bc some women are anti-abortion" is one of the most blindingly stupid takes I've seen in idk how long
They said the same thing about school integration, civil rights, and on and on and on and on news.gallup.com/vault/246167...
A sense of fairness that extends to all ‘normal’ people & barely dependent on actual info. I know the type. Agree w you, but omg their self-flattering horse shit drives me up the wall
Are you from “middle america”?
All you are really telling me is that trans people make you uncomfortable and that you consider them expendable. Just say that, it's more concise
According to the bulk of scientific data addressing this issue, trans-women do not really *have* an advantage over cis-women in sports. So if we were to "address the concerns" of people who "care deeply about fairness", we should start by describing their "concerns" as unfounded.
Your contempt for "middle American normies" isn't quite concealing how you really feel about trans folks. Trans athletes are incredibly rare (thanks in part to FUD like this) but a lot of ACTUAL "middle American normies" are fully capable of putting JV volleyball in proper perspective.
Although you WOULD be right, if the only people who were willing to speak up about the subject in public were transphobic grifters like Trump and whatsherface, who finished T-5th instead of 4th at a swim meet once. But sure, let's let those fucks get the first and only word on the subject.
Hear me out here. What if the crux of a morally important decision ISN'T how it "messages" but rather you make the correct choice?
and i'm sure you're going out of your way to set them straight, right?
Do they separate short girls from tall girls? Then it's not fair. Shut the fuck up.
Messaging is about informing people the trans people in sports arguments are bullshit. Your average high school basketball player is at best going to play D3 for a liberal arts college. 10 out of 510,000 NCAA athletes are transgender. Its not an issue.
what are your credentials on this topic?
Im sorry to have to be the one to tell you this but the “normies” are wrong and dipshits like you need to stop going to bat for them and pretending that we need to their wrong opinions seriously especially when you’re pretending that mysoginy isnt the main motivation behind banning abortion
shut up bigoted bitch
“I have nothing against Jewish people existing but I care deeply about babies being stolen to be made into bread”
at last! somebody speaks for me, the politically homeless median voter
Do you know how stupid you sound?
Are you busy, man? Because I could use some help doing something far more productive and relevant than this.
(when shohei does something no one has done in a century) this isn't fair! i hope i never see this again! i am a real person, and i hope some dipshit uses this to be transphobic on bluesky
The nazi party thanks you for your cooperation
You don't believe hormone replacement therapy is a thing that is drastic enough to make me throw a ball with less force. Correct? Hey uhm I'm working on this petition to make hrt over the counter, I'm going to need your signature.
a lot of people have been lied to about the situation so of course the reasonable thing to do is to keep reinforcing the lie to them
like of course it's also morally and ethically a better choice to take a hardline stance in favour of equal rights, but the pragmatist 'we have to play to the crowd who's been immersed in anti-trans propaganda by repeating the propaganda' approach also just doesn't make any logical sense
Good news, Alex! The left actually does know the answer. It's that trans women do not have a competitive advantage and therefore this is a 100% non-issue. We've been saying that for years, but when it falls on deaf ears we try shit like "who GAF, get good loser" instead.
How many minority groups are ok with chucking under the bus because of imaginary logical conclusions?
My ultra conservative aunt was ranting about a trans girl playing HS softball making it sound like she was 6'4", 230 throwing 75mph. The girl was just a tall girl and above-average HS softball pitcher. Not the best. Not LeBron. Just a good player in line w/other girls. This is all made up scare BS
Have you seen photos of swimmer Gretchen Welch? Physical gifts matter in sports. No one gets to specify the length of their opponent’s arms or their perceptual speed. No one’s in the NBA w average stature, stamina, strength for men. Can we say, No one over 6’5” should play?
sports are inherently unfair so I don't believe this at all.
Hi. 64 year old Iowan here. This is bullshit. There are so few trans athletes in HS sports nationwide that the entire conversation is stupid & the only way to "message" this is to point that out. It's HS sports, ffs. It's supposed to be kids having fun. Fuck off with the "fairness" shit.
You're like the Lorax but instead of speaking for the tree you speak for the bigots.
“Perceived fairness” basing law on what Fox News tells us instead of reality isn’t going to work. It’s simple, trans athletes don’t have an edge. To pretend otherwise is people wanting to look at other people’s genitals.
it’s ⚾️ never 🏀 been 🏃🏻♂️about ⚽️ sports, bitch
Just out of interest, how small is your dick?
“perceived fairness” = “let’s make up a reason to mistreat trans people rather than simply address the false perception”
Not only are you wrong about trans women having an advantage over cis women in sports, as multiple studies have shown, every cis person is already built different and some have advantages just because of how they were born. Look at Michael Phelps for fucks sake, that’s biological advantage.
Transgender women aren’t men. End of debate.
If the argument is that there are always star athletes and the way anyone gets better is through skill and practice — if you’re going to begin to convince ppl, defuse the culture war, and build consensus…
you have to at least address the perception that high school LeBron James could be playing against high school Caitlyn Clark Bc if what you’re saying were taken to its logical limit, we wouldn’t even have sports leagues based on gender/sex today; we’d just have a “get good” mentality
All of this is rooted in transphobia, especially your little “LeBron James” jab. That should never be where we start. The starting point should always be respect and empathy.
You’re so blinded by your so-called centrism that you can’t see it’s all rooted in bigotry. None of this began from a place of understanding or tolerance, it started with pure hatred. And you can’t collaborate with people who despise you simply for existing.
No we don't have to address this perception because it is asinine. Even if there was a trans woman high school LeBron, if they were as athletic and good at basketball as the actual LeBron James, it would make more sense for them to just play on the guys team and then make $100 million in the NBA.
we have to address what if pee pee was poo poo
Holy shit snort laughed at this I swear I’m an adult lol
Let’s not forget: what if poo poo was pee pee.
I feel like people are dunking on you because I guess it’s ridiculous to think a good male athlete is also actually trans….. But Caitlin Jenner was on every box of wheaties for many many years.
Jesus Christ on a stick
Hahaha yes. This is the reason why. You are very perceptive and intelligent
No one has to address the thing you made up as a smokescreen for your bigotry, actually
Sorry, we do not in fact have to address the feelings and not the facts of people who say "facts don't care about your feelings"
No.
Bro shut the fuck up
Also, of all sports to use as analogy... Manute Bol and Spud Webb played on the same team and were both good, despite very apparent physical differences:
what have you done for women’s sports lately alex because it seems like you can’t even spell one of the biggest names in women’s sports right now much less historically
This sounds… awesome? Am I supposed to not want this?
zionist detected - opinion rejected
“You have to at least address this thing that isn’t happening but which I think sounds scary. Also, please address ghosts.”
have you considered that my goofy son would have to play vs hs lebron too and that’s also unfair
There's nothing wrong with ungendered sports. Nothing. If men are intrinsically better players then top-tier sports will be predominantly male, with lesser tiers skewing female. The fear is seeing "elite" dudes getting their asses kicked by women. That's what keeps gender norms in place.
As far as I know there is no gender or sex requirements for any (non-female) sports league. If a woman could play in the NFL, she could if she wanted! So, is the WNBA a lesser product?
This idea that anyone can play in the NFL just because they *want* to is hilariously incorrect. You're also incorrect in thinking you can get to the NFL without coming up through (very) segregated high school and college leagues. Seriously, you *cannot* not be this stupid.
And yeah, both the NBA and the WNBA are inferior products because neither selects for the best players, they only select for the best players from half the population.
That’s what I am telling you. You are wrong. Women are allowed to play in the NBA. They just aren’t good enough. Same with football. Women are allowed to play, it’s just that men are on average much stronger, faster and generally more suited to the game of football.
And that's the argument against trans girls in high school sports? They're inherently bigger and stronger than anyone else, and therefore present an unfair advantage to their teams? (fwiw, I rarely, if ever see the opposite concerns, about trans dudes on the field)
Yes. That is the concern. (I think inherently is the wrong word because everything is on a continuum). It’s also the concern of many sports leagues that looked at the issue and promulgated rules to ensure fairness. And yes, you rarely see the opposite concerns because obviously.
You realize how ridiculous that sounds to anyone who knows people come in all shapes and sizes. You absolutely cannot square a commitment to fairness with an approach that is, mathematically, the *least* fair way to make the cut. Here, fairness demands far more granularity than that.
Personally, I don't care. I just want to see the best players playing with and against each other. That's what makes a great game. If people *want* gendered leagues, fine. It's a free country. But don't assume that is where the best performances will be. It won't.
No, you don't. I can literally count the trans teenage athletes being denied basic rights on my fingers and toes, and the worst human beings alive keep jerking off over hypotheticals.
"What if the Omelas kid was too good at sports and so deserves torment"-ass take
"You have to at least address the perception that high school Magic Johnson could be playing against high school Larry Bird. Because if what you're saying were taken to its logical limit, we wouldn't even have racially segregated sports leagues today." Bigotry is bigotry. Set it aside or fuck off.
For playing a game? The cis can't be challenged because they might lose4th place? Cry about it loser ass
high school lebron james and high school caitlyn clark arent a man and woman, they are both kids. men and women don’t play high school sports
I dunno man I saw LeBron play in high school. Dude looked 30 at 16. He’s ALWAYS just been built different. But on that note he’s a massive outlier anyway. A whole different gender: “top-tier athlete.” Maybe different species.
(also, if he were on hormones, his body and abilities would be different)
I don't want to defend extremists on either side but the fact is if LeBron went on HRT even today, he would be permanently out of shape for NBA within literal days. Modern medicine really makes it moot.
how about the perception of vaccines? climate change? flat earthers? Or moon deniers? By your logic every perception must be dealt with and “we need consensus” here’s something that doesn’t have consensus and is true all the same “Trump is a criminal and should be in prison” tell me I’m wrong.
So we always address the PERCEPTION of a problem? How long before the old “African Americans are stupid or deserve the circumstances they have, but you can’t be mad that’s just my perception” and your response is “let’s build consensus” also your 1/3 women thing, it’s called majority rules.
You dumb bitch
do you personally think this scenario could happen
What’s so frustrating ab the left when they talk ab this issue is the refusal to even admit that the extreme edge case conservatives (which they tout as common place while it’s actually v rare) is a real scenario that in practice most athletes and parents would be v upset w
Counterpoint. Picking a outgroup and kicking them down is what fascists do. How about we don’t be assholes?
What's so frustrating about "centrists" is they begin by taking Right wing propaganda as a starting place, thus legitimizing a "both sides" narrative. It is intellectual laziness AND moral cowardice, but it sure lets them have a take
What's so frustrating about you is that you want to reduce a moral decision about human rights to a thought experiment.
This right here is where the argument against "the left" fails. Attack the premise, not the left. Say that in some very rare case where safety may be a concern, safety comes first. But absent legitimate safety concerns that trans people must be treated like people too.
there are no safety concerns, and making room for fake safety concerns is going in the opposite direction
Take that approach and you lose the argument, even if you are right (which I am not convinced you are). Make it a high-minded, high-handed approach that libs will let any trans athlete compete against any girl in any scenario, and you are playing into their argument.
this isn’t an argument, one side is right and the other isn’t. there isn’t a debate here any more than there’s a debate to be had about gays teaching in public schools
It's a political argument, one where we must get people who don't agree with us to stop voting with fascists.
no, it’s a political fight, and you do not know what you’re doing and will only ever be in the way
21
Dude, your political statement is "there are no safety concerns". This is like a sub 20% view. Maybe my way is not the best way to address it (probably isnt!), but you have to address it somehow or you've already lost.
The thing is, we already actually covered this in the real world boxing issue, and solved it. Trans people have human rights. Good bye.
What extreme edge case are you talking about? Certainly not 'high school LeBron James' playing against women, because that isn't a real scenario it's one you just made up. So what's the actually extreme edge case leftists are ignoring?
OK, except that did happen. It was Lia Thomas transitioning & ending up at the exact same level relative to women as she'd been relative to men before losing her testosterone. And people are still breathing fire & shitting spoons about it rather than ever acknowledging that the system worked.
what’s frustrating about brain dead centrists is the refusal to understand that sports entirely hinge on natural human physical conditions and no one is transitioning to win at a sport you fucking idiot
*you* are literally an extreme edge case: someone who spends way too much time on these dumbass thought experiments that no normal person will ever care about.
shut up you stupid fuck. learn to troll at least. this is as boring as it is tedious as it is moronic. christ
Ppl on the left often ignore inconvenient logical truths in order to paint over complex topics with broad moral brushes bc they get their righteous indignation and simply it The same shit happens w how places like msnbc talk ab abortion. You’d think it was purely an issue of sexism and misogyny
Because it is! Or do you *actually* believe the people committing genocide in Palestine, or ripping healthcare away from millions of people, are even *remotely* concerned with "The Sanctity Of Life (TM)".
What other reason would anyone be anti-abortion?
But 1/3 of US woman are pro life. As it turns out, the issue is actually more complicated and largely religious/cultural. And if you are going to have a chance of convincing anyone of anything, you have to at first correctly frame and breakdown the situation
MOST women are ANTI-forced-birth. Conservatives don't GAF about life or children or women or babies. They just want to control women. Only women and their doctors should make their medical decisions.
We know that women also hate and are taught to hate women by groups and men that hate women dumbass.
If your religion believes you have a right to force others to give birth it is misogynistic though. If your culture says forced birth is the only way your culture is misogynistic. That said, ignore them and focus on your principles. You will win out if you do.
It literally doesn't matter what they think. If they don't want an abortion they don't have to get one. They have no right to take that option from someone else, period.
are you in favor of minority rule?
Hey dumbass I don't know if you're aware of this but sexism and misogyny are cultural phenomena
Great example that shows the flaw in your basic assumptions—you begin from the position of moral relativism, that all views are valid. But they’re not; anti-abortion/forced birth advocates are wrong. We don’t need to accommodate incorrect view points.
That’s why trans sports doesn’t have a clear collective consensus on what we should do as a society. It’s hairy. And that’s why some kind of nuanced, thoughtful conversation is needed to figure out how we preserve a sense of fairness as well as self respect and viability for trans ppl
We do not need to create an entire legal framework further othering a marginalized group to dictate a few hundred out of 10 million cases. Local sports leagues and teams can handle it.
There was a collective conscensus on trans participation on sport before fukken libs decided we needed to have a “nuanced and thoughtful conversation” about how best to throw us under the bus.
Like don’t get me wrong, the right is SO much worse at every level on issues of morality, politics, and science But it’s also like the left has brain rot too. And is determined to alienate ppl who could otw potentially be persuaded
The only people who make the complaint you're making are center-right dullards who aren't happy with Trump's crude incompetence, but bristle at the Left demanding you have some actual moral integrity.
Jeez, left. How dare you care more about the rights of other human beings more than the soft bigotry of the unoppressed.
Bill Ackman says this could have been shorter
Nah, it’s also like you’re full of crap.
do you think you could be persuaded on this topic or is your perception of "unfairness" settled fact?
I asked this because I think if we examined the details of the trans youth playing sports discussion a bit closer, the word "fairness" might be revealed to be a slight-of-hand trojan horse trick that's being orchestrated all around us.
does disagreeing with somebody who is wrong necessarily alienate them? is it not significant that people only hold these views due to less than a decade of unopposed anti-trans narratives simmering their brains? if you go back to 2016, trans rights are largely well-regarded. this wave is artificial!
I thought you were taking a break.
lol dumbbb
If wanting equal human rights is brain rot to you then I can safely disregard everything else you have to say
is this that Enlightened Centrism™️ i keep hearing about? where you have to sacrifice X number of groups of minorities to appease the elusive Right Wing Voter That Might Vote Dem this Time? tell us who else you'd be willing to sacrifice for these votes
You are the brain rot of the left, my dude. You are literally determined to alienate your allies just to pander to and affirm the pseudoscientific delusions of an ideological group who will NEVER support you.
he also can't criticize the likes of musk and zuckerberg without using "autistic" as a pejorative, dude is a full bag of trash
Why am I not surprised
tl;dr
I ain’t reading all that. I’m happy for you though
I really want to be nice and discuss this w you 10 yrs ago "Is it the avg liberal who created endless layups for the worst conservative who is wrong? No, it must be the leftists who spent years doing what I'm asking for, were ignored, and now it's too late and they're mean about it, surely"
That is literally what you sound like I can't tell anymore if someone is just doing layup politics on trans sports, bc it's impossible to decode if 1) bad faith ignoring decades of context 2) taken in by narratives to do #1 ignorantly 3) you do care, but not enough to listen
So, yeah, we're mean about it Because wouldn't you be, if someone told you to do what you already tried, after your abusers have gotten away with everything?
the right denies science at every turn but you trust them on this topic to be consistent i assume you also question climate change ?
I didn't read through all your your bullshit cuz you're clearly not actually knowledgeable enough on this to have the opinions you do, however as a trans woman athlete you point to something important, no one wants me there, my own "side" doesn't want trans women participating in sports. 1/
I've played in queer co-ed inclusive sports leagues and had more or just as much bigotry as gender segregated sports leagues. And the truth is it is all misogyny, it's built upon the myth that women are much weaker than we actually are. The evidence doesn't matter... 2/
We already have studies, multiple and reproductive studies that show that the physiological changes of trans women on HRT puts them at a physical disadvantage to CIS women. Sensationalizing the few wins trans women have actually had has made them seem disproportionate. 3/
Coed wrestling has been a thing going back to the 90s. Kids are so uneven in development of dexterity, strength and stamina you learn to use what you have and, if you don't have it, tough. Life ain't fair. Get off the cross, we need the wood.
There’s no collective consensus because of bigotry, Alex. There are plenty of reasons something might not have a consensus that are not because the situation is complicated.
This is Orwellian language. You cannot have a “nuanced thoughtful conversation” about stripping civil rights away from trans ppl which “preserves a sense of fairness, self respect and visibility for trans people”. This is the kind of language Labour UK uses when banning trans people from bathrooms
Omy gosh, it does have a clear collective consensus! Trans people have been competing in sports for DECADES. Every single biomedical study that has ever been performed on trans athletes show that trans women retain ZERO androgenic advantage post 30 months HRT. There is no nuance to pseudoscience.
it's not, you're just a centrist fascist holding water for the far right fascists. trans sports doesn't have a clear consensus because there's been hundreds of millions spent globally demonizing trans people and no prominent person has done any countermessaging with any remotely similar expenditure
That's it. It's not hairy at all, it's a matter of manufactured consent and centrists like you are perfectly happy to let Republicans lead on all cultural issues and then claim "it's complicated" so you can be absolved of not doing jack shit in the face of trans persecution.
no, it has been clear until politicized science has been there for decades stop being anti-science
It’s none of anyone’s business besides the woman and her doctor. That’s it! Don’t need to convince ANYONE OF ANYTHING. Next.
Know what? You’ll never ever ever ever become pregnant. Women’s health is not your concern, therefore. Condoms TERRIFY you, don’t they?
If you’re opposed to abortion then don’t have one.
Religious/cultural misogyny is still misogyny. Hope that helps!
Just because a woman says it doesn't mean it's not misogynistic, you fat slutty bitch!!
Saying it's religious/cultural It's not different than saying it's misogyny. In this case they're the same thing it's about control.
because it is, the fact that it’s cloaked in religion or “culture” doesn’t make that untrue
The inconvenient logical truth is that there are like 25 trans high school athletes and they should be allowed to compete where they want because social inclusion is more important than an ephemeral concept of "fairness." Was it unfair for Michael Phelps' opponents with his genetics? Who cares!
“Biological advantage” like yeah, men who are tall should be banned from playing basketball, for “fairness?” I feel like these bigots have lost the plot for what sports is actually about.
There are no logical truths on attacking trans kids or banning abortions. We’re not “ignoring” truths that are inconvenient, we’re telling you they don’t exist.
How is abortion not simply an issue of sexism and misogyny?
This is the evidence you presented. I'm hoping there's more? Unless you think women can't be sexist and cultural and religious beliefs can't be misogynistic, which is of course absurd. bsky.app/profile/alex...
Since you're super into hypotheticals, try this one on for size: go back to these posts and replace all instances of "trans sports" with "school integration," then see whether the bigotry and stupidity suddenly pops up like the hidden image in one of those Magic Eye pictures
God will you shut up you fucking peckerwood?
Millions of labour hours went into making social media software and every day a new guy like you proves it was a waste of time.
Wow, you seem awful.
not you tho, the fact that trans athletes have been allowed in the olympics for 20+ years and have won exactly zero medals definitely isn't an "inconvenient logical truth" right?
remember that girl who made a big stink about losing a race to a trans girl? did you know she also beat that trans girl in races within months of that race? is it only unfair when the trans girl wins? is your solution that trans people can compete at sports only if they will never win?
It's not just that they're not allowed to win. If they finish anywhere but last, it's "unfair" as evidenced by Riley Gaines making a career out of tying for fifth with Lia Thomas.
it’s literally not a “real scenario”
Okay, provide a citation for a single time this has ever happened
Because it is not a real scenario, and by pretending that it is a real scenario instead of what it actually is— a far right phantasm— you are legitimizing the far right’s argument. I don’t care if most athletes and parents are very upset with equal rights for minorities. That’s why civil right 1/2
2/2 aren’t decided based on majority rule.
You're a dumbass
Ah but what about the totally real concern that schools put litter boxes in bathrooms for students that identify as cats?! Huh? That's a totally real concern lots of Americans have and they need to be swaddled and told they're smart.
so like. has it happened.
HRT is a thing, learn about the topic before you post
In what sense is this a "real scenario"?
Was high school LeBron James on puberty blockers? Stfu
No, you don’t, and extreme hypothetical edge cases are bad bases for policy. The vast majority of youth athletes are just kids who want to play, I for one am opposed to them having run a gauntlet of genital examinations, legal paperwork, and psychotic bigots in order to do so.
Can you at least think what you've said here through a bit more so that it's at least cogently idiotic, instead of densely bewildering?
Meatloaf brain
no you don’t, because that’s stupid
That’s a stupid perception. “You have to address the perception that black people cause more crime.” You do not in fact need to address stupid, bigoted ideas in good faith.
This is the weirdest update of Air Bud I’ve ever read. When does the dog show up?
Didn't know LeBron was a trans woman. All power to them 🏳️⚧️
No one "needs to address" stupid hypotheticals completely divorced from reality that demonstrate no understanding of the topic beyond what they've been told by the same fascist scumbags - like you! - who put those hypotheticals in their head in the first place
You sound like an 8 year old
biggest pee pee poo poo of my life. seek help or drugs but throw phone into toilet
Yeah, you're right. Male athletes should learn to just get good and quit being afraid of female ones. No more segregated sports! Glad to have you on board, brother.
why Why must we address it? So we can placate a small, insane minority that would like nothing more than to put a bullet in the back of my head? Is that what you would like? Because you seem to be disturbingly on board with that plan right now
You actually really do not need to address the perception that LeBron James could have actually been a trans woman in high school
No we absolutely do not.
We don't have to "address the perception", because existing rules already prevent that happening. Boys can't join girl sports on a whim. Only those committed to transition are permitted to switch gendered sports, if at all. Same reason there's no actual need for trans sports bans for adults.
School sports are meant to be fun and social events not high degree competition, god damn shut up with this Transphobia bullshit
But he isn’t
Ok but you understand that perception is false and is based on zero actual evidence and has never ever happened, right? So that is a You problem believing in falsehoods, and not a Trans person problem for existing and loving sports.
Yeah, and you don't "have" to address false perceptions *especially* when those falsities were specifically and deliberately constructed to drag you into losing arguments. In fact, you have to look at that shit, see the bait, recognize it for what it is, and refuse to get played.
Like, I appreciate where you're coming from, but maybe save the advice for a situation where you're not walking *straight* into a trap specifically set for "reasonable" people like yourself. So no, nobody needs to listen to anyone with political instincts this poor. You. Are. Being. Played.
This is one of the greatest replies ever.
Shut the fuck up, Alex. Conceding ground on Trans Rights is immoral and unconscionable. Maybe people should simply git fucking gud.
Simple as.
This is the entire problem. We don’t have to address that because it’s not real or plausible. If high school LeBron transitioned and took HRT, she would not be *high school LeBron.* The left’s “brain rot” here is refusing to accept false premises.
No we do not, because it’s a far right phantasm. LeBron is not competing against Caitlyn Clark. There were already EXTREMELY strict medical prerequisites that trans female athletes had to meet to be eligible for female competition. The right does not give a shit.
Look at pictures and stats of high school Derrick Henry (or most other eventual elite athletes) playing against other high schoolers, for example. That isn't "fair" either, but no one complains about that. In the end, it *is* bigotry against trans people
High school sports needs to be fair! What do you lefties not get? The normies demand an equal playing field in their sports. I mean look at this transgender woman (#2 in the highlights) playing against ciswomen. How in any world is this fair? Checkmate libs. youtu.be/4e2yfWsFk3c?...
You can see defensive players' soul leave their bodies as they realize they're going to have to try an open-field tackle on someone twice their size
i went to high school with austin rivers and i tell you what that shit was not fair at all
shut up, freak.
You don't have to take things to their "logical limit", actually.
address my asshole
Yeah, getting good is... Kinda the point of athletics.
HRT literally changes a person's sex and performance to match, so no
it's a fucking game, who cares
Why do we have to address "the perception" that something that won't happen could happen?
No, you fucking don’t. Jesus Christ. Listen you yourself. Try saying the sentence out loud.
False
How bout Katie Ledicky vs any other woman on earth. Is that fair?
Are you gonna address the reality that high school LeBron James dominated every single high school player he ever played against? And would have dominated every human being that lived outside of maybe vs all but like 1-2 people?
And if trans women REALLY had a significant advantage over cis women in sports, there would be NO CIS WOMEN in sports ALREADY.
If trans women had an advantage, they’d win more. They don’t, so they don’t.
Here are Derrick Henry's stats in high school. As a *freshman* he was putting up over 200 yards and 2 touchdowns a game. By senior year, it's more than 300 and 4. I guarantee no one on the other teams felt that was "fair". And yet, he wasn't banned from playing.
Michael Phelps broke the world record in the 200M butterfly before he turned 16, lol.
I will also say that I would like to see ANY group of cis men eclipse the performance of any artistic swimming team that performs in the Olympics.
that should just be a sport in and of itself
It is a sport in and of itself. Men are eligible to compete in it as of 2024 but none do.
no i mean the men's swimming teams should *have* to do synchronized swimming first before they can do their own event
Gymnasts are winning Olympic medals at 13! Is it unfair for 30 year olds to compete against them?
Seriously. Go watch any video of him in HS.
Crazy youtu.be/4e2yfWsFk3c?...
How was it it fair that Gary, who went on to be an IT support help guy after graduating from DeVry, had to try to guard LeBron in High School? Have you addressed that?
That makes no sense, bigot.
Youre not familiar with the air force studies on physical performance after transition are you
Oh just noticed how youre ignoring the rest of the critiques. So youre just here to scold then. Got it. Dipshit.
I feel like this is a scenario that could only happen due to anti trans bigotry. In an ideal world trans teen Lebron would have access to puberty blockers or hormones that would put him on level with cis teen Caitlyn.
Except this, much like the Rights argument, is entirely in your lead poisoned head because you are talking about two different generational players from two vastly different eras. That's like comparing Jalen Hurts to Roger Stabach. Two completely different eras of the game. Apples to Dog Shit.
yeah we probably shouldn't lol. men just really hate losing to girls so we have a lot of stuff built up to protect their feelings.
This is dumb for a lot of reasons but if we are gonna take it seriously the answer is better screening and therapy for trans youth and earlier access to puberty blockers
Nobody has to address your insane hypothetical you dumb incredulous bitch.
What if this happened one time in real life first before we attacked a minority group over a pretty unremarkable hypothetical
The real answer is that high school Caitlyn would get rinsed, and who cares? I am not an athletic person, I got crushed in many high school sports, and I didn’t try to take away anyone’s civil rights because of it
Why should we take Nazi propaganda at face value?
okay but if what YOU'RE saying to it's EQUALLY "logical limit," then there is no way for any two humans to compete fairly because no two people have exactly the same physical capability. dumbass.
So what dominating predisposition are people allowed to have and which do we need to make their lives hell and take away all their rights for? Like is having longer legs okay? What about being born to a rich family? Having decreased lactic acid generation? The trans athlete debate is dumb.
Trans athletes are rare, they are not dominating -any- field and the whataboutism of it is meant to distract you and convince you that yeah maybe it's okay if some people don't have basic human rights.
uh oh! you've been GARRED! your post is canceled and you must repost the gar! share to totally GAR your friends
We had consensus for literal decades. Trans people have been competing in sports without any controversy for literal uninterrupted decades. The “controversy” over them was *entirely* politically manufactured, ironically by TERFs, and then adopted by the far right. They do not care about consensus
“Care deeply about fairness in sports” m.youtube.com/watch?v=ynmx...
This isn't about sports. It's a wedge to turn public opinion (further) against trans people.
if you're going for a niemoller poem speedrun any% you gotta sign up at QuislingDoneQuick first
Stop trying to look at children’s genitalia you freak
why? who the fuck cares? get your anti-trans strawman shit off this site
sorry man, this whole discussion is actually illegitimate and there is no reason to debate over it other than to push trans people out of public life
And this isn't about sports or fairness. It's finding an excuse for bigotry. STFU if you can't figure that out.
You mean the dozens of actual trans women who are participating, they’re the ones who should be punished?
Bye
The Middle American Normie Whisperer has spoken.
Then address the dildo harassment at WNBA games!
If they care about fairness in sports they should know that by all relevant metrics trans people in sports do not threaten their integrity Why coddle people?
Sounds like you've got a skill issue dumbass.
Anyone who spends any amount of time pondering this and admits it freely is not, in fact, normal Let’s be clear on that
you do not know anything about messaging or winning
The only way to stop a moral panic is to stand up to it and shame it into silence. You can't stop the Witchfinder General by conceding some of his points to make yourself sound reasonable to the frightened peasants.
no one cared about the handful of trans kids in sports until far-right media figures figured out how to make yall just as obsessed with 1% of the population as they are. that's the brain rot. yall could be addressing people's material concerns instead of wasting breath on their talking points.
but i guess talking about the price of housing or healthcare just isn't as convenient or attention grabbing as throwing another marginalized community on the fire, huh? democrats didn't want to push back on fear mongering against immigration after all, and now look where we are.
People only worry about this because of propaganda.
This is the BS bigots tell themselves to justify bigotry. These people only care about fairness when it is an effective tool to oppress. We have to stop allowing them to leverage these arguments in bad faith. Normies too stupid to think through the full outcomes of their beliefs don’t get a pass.
Some people have real problems
“There are a lot of middle American normies who have nothing against trans people existing, but who care deeply about those trans people not having equal rights”. Make it make sense.
Shut up man
My dude, none of these people care deeply about women's sports. At all. They're the ones throwing dildos at women athletes ffs.
if you believe sports fundamentally need discrimination, and your main concern is still to protect sports, then there is something wrong with you.
yes, there are a lot of stupid bigoted assholes in this country whose opinions should be completed disregarded, you are added to that list
“you have to at least address the perception that high school LeBron James could be playing against high school Caitlyn Clark” Yes, we should definitely address the thing that has never happened and is almost certain never to happen so that your made-up scenarios don’t scare you into being a bigot.
Counterpoint: fuck off
Perfect example of a person whose “ideals” are based on media narratives. You have no idea what 1/3 of women want because that’s over 56 MILLION WOMEN. You recite a narrative you heard and most likely from a biased source. Before you complain, you asked for this.
Nobody cares deeply about this issue that isn’t already prepared to sacrifice trans kids to Moloch
polling shows elected democrats and party officials are far more transphobic than the general voting public but you likely already knew that!
Similar arguments were made against abolition. It didn’t mean that abolition was wrong. It means people needed to persuaded to see the truth. If human rights are unpopular, we don’t need to play into that, we need to persuade people to be better. Furthermore, go fuck yourself.
Shut yo bitch ass up, bitch
I don’t care. I have actual problems. This is not a priority for me.
No. Your messaging is guaranteed to fail. There are a ton of people who message this just fine. Imagine you are about to get a ton of those.
There is not a single person on this fucking planet who voted for Donald Trump because sometimes trans women play sports with other women. FOH.
Wow did you only just discover the concept of Wedge Issues today or something?
nOrMaL people just have reasonable logical nuanced concerns about the gays in sports. what if they get their gay all over you in the game or locker room? think of the kids! youre a fucking moron at best.
Hey Alex. Get fucked.
Shut the fuck up idiot
the number of trans people in organized sports is incredibly small
Perceived fairness is not a compelling interest.