I believe the latter is gaining quite a bit of traction, but no. Demographic change needs to be faced head on, it's a thing and we've had 40 years to think about it and have failed to do so. The nature of working and living needs to be rethought. What work is worthwhile and how best to share?

If you were to do that properly, a lot of important and moderately important people wouldn't like it and would try to sabotage it. As observed in the cafes of the Veneto, Italy, every old man has to have his hat and badge of office.

Indeed, but the choice we have made and continue to make is to consume the lifeblood of forrins for the false gods of growth and gdp. All whilst treating them as lesser. It stinks and is totally unsustainable.

I agree.

I suspect people are missing the point of all the noise around the ECHR. Asylum is just a wedge. Article 8 the real target.

There are any number of articles that would "save government money" if they were withdrawn. The right to an education underpins spending on education for children with SEN and physical disabilities. This is a very expensive provision and incurs larger transport costs than state schools do.

The newspapers have already got the bit between their teeth on this. Ofc, if you do not give children with learning disabilities life skills, then they cannot survive if their parents die. Pretty sure Ed Davey is also well aware of this.

I'm looking at it from a different pov. This is not about gov saving money. That's for later. It's about people being able to make as much money as they can. One step from indentured labour. In the case of foreign workers, this underpins all policy. Family gets in the way.

That would take significant time to bring about. Adults with profound and multiple leaning disabilities are often already living in homes. It wouldn't take much to change the nature of the facilities. It would also not take much to cut state owned schools out of the public sector.

This would quickly result in more teenagers in institutions having not received the education that would allow them to cope at home. The rug could be pulled out just like that. That's not even mentioning the use of non-resuscitation notices on disabled ppl during Covid.

What I'm describing wrt vast swathes of foreign workers is already happening. Policy follows rhetoric. What you are describing is also happening. The rhetoric is different, but the lessening of lives is fundamentally the same. Paradigm shift needed . there's enough money.

My view is that this is why FoM was killed. Implicit in it was mutuality, the right to be human. What is wanted is producers and consumers (HE). We'll have your youth and your money then you can bugger off back. You don't belong. You're not real. The eugenics is the other side of the coin.

Article 8, less about cost (IMO) and more about the right to privacy… if you can do away with that then also sorts of interesting and dismal things… more surveillance, forced outing of trans folk etc. Hideous :( I agree loss of any article would be bad BTW

They will come for disabled people first.

I submit that it’s a coin toss between disabled folk and trans folk. Abandon Art 8, national ID with “sex assigned at birth” and no possibly to update plus the likely EHRC guidance…. More or less forced segregation of trans folk :( You can possibly see a similarly bleak path for disabled folk

Learning disabled people are utterly dependent, cannot engage with social media well and are highly visible in the community.

I suspect that zero rights is the agenda