You think it was the Irish government of the 27 that insisted on that drafting because the UK had breached prior agreements? Which ones are you thinking of? Rather more plausible in my view that in 2021 the prospect of the UK leaving the ECHR was in view, when it was not in 1998.
Eh - yes? I mean - I’ve met the main political actors on the Irish side, known one of them for some 35 years now?
I wonder if we asked the other 26 whether they'd agree.
The answer must be yes as the ECHR TCA pieces, both TCA mandate itself and underlying Council decisions, were agreed to by the EuCO
Well, I’m sure that they’ll be told they’re wrong about themselves in due course, too.
I mean - that HMG’s conduct meant HMG was to be nailed down on everything dealing with NI was not exactly what one would describe as a fringe view in Ireland at the time, you know?
The idea that in 1998 the Irish government didn't need to spell things out because the UK government was considered a great bunch of lads, so they could be slapdash with the drafting, when by 2021 they were evil swine, is just silly. In 1998 the UK leaving the ECHR wasn't foreseen. In 2021 it was.
Did we trust Tony Blair, the guy who let Mo Mowlam do her work, more than Johnson, the guy who sacked Julian Smith for doing his? Damn right we did. And we were dead right on both counts.
The claim that the Irish government in 1998 were happy to trust the UK government going forward, and so didn't need to spell things out clearly in an agreement that tried to settle 30 years of conflict, is a bold submission.
Politically, there will be a further issue with any reliance on the GFA. During the Brexit process, the Irish side was, to say the least, economical with the actualité about the situation with the border. At best, they relied on the spirit of the agreement, not the text…
To imagine that any Reform/Conservative Government that is willing to take the hit over the TCA (data, criminal justice co-operation etc.) will let that happen again is for the birds. I guess it will really depend on the attitude of the Americans.
Lads, when ye think Belcoo is what the Vache Qui Rit wears around her neck, maybe you might want to be a bit less prone to lecturing silly Patrick about what’s happening here.
Almost, *almost*, like Blair and Ahern had a famously good relationship and that Ireland and HMG worked hand in glove on all sorts of issues like the North and asylum and justice at EU level for years up until Brexit, you mean? Oh.
So, to be clear, your claim is that we shouldn't read the words of the GFA, as we do a regular treaty, because Ahern trusted Blair going forward, and didn't need to be clear in the text settiling 30 years of violenece, whereas by 2021 trust had gone and clarity was then needed? Oh indeed.
No, Hugo, I was politely and patiently trying to tell you to stop making a holy show of yourself lecturing Irish people about what Irish people who you have never met but who they know well think and do. That patience is somewhat eroded, now.
The latest victim of WISHOT.
There is more than a hint in these exchanges of "Ireland is a little country and must do what it is told" ala Theresa May.
Hugo, do you ever stop to consider that maybe, just *maybe* Irish people might have a better handle on what the Irish people they know personally were thinking and doing than you? I mean - even entertain that as a possibility?
Well, I had thought that in 1998 the Irish government might be concerned to spell out things carefully in an agreement settling 30 years of conflict, but if you tell me they thought they didn't need to because they trusted the British, I am in no position to gainsay your expertise.
No. You’re not.