Seeing lots of people expressing concern over the second-degree murder charge in Minnesota. This is the highest available charge- the Minnesota statute is unusual and there is nothing odd at play here.
Replies
That's why the death penalty is important there is no reforming monsters
jun 16, 2025, 7:06 pm • 0 0 • view
I'm just glad they're keeping the charges at the state level so that Trump can't pardon him and then add him to his army of brown shorts.
jun 16, 2025, 2:37 pm • 4 0 • view
Thanks, Joyce, was wondering
jun 16, 2025, 3:07 pm • 3 0 • view
Typo: designation.
jun 16, 2025, 7:36 pm • 0 0 • view
The charges MUST stay at the State level to prevent Trump from pardoning the murderer.
jun 16, 2025, 2:26 pm • 40 3 • view
It sounds like that has been sabotaged by the feds.
jun 16, 2025, 3:33 pm • 0 0 • view
As long as there are state charges, like with Chauvin, it doesn’t matter if the federal charges are pardoned. It’s not going to change anything but his address.
jun 16, 2025, 3:38 pm • 15 0 • view
That was my point. Don't JUST charge him Federally.
jun 16, 2025, 4:51 pm • 2 0 • view
No federal charges are pending. And they are very unlikely.
jun 16, 2025, 5:20 pm • 1 0 • view
Federal prisons are “nicer” than state prisons. Let Trump pardon Chauvin.
jun 16, 2025, 4:49 pm • 0 0 • view
Chauvin won't last one day if he is let loose.
jun 16, 2025, 4:51 pm • 1 0 • view
He is not going anywhere except to SuperMax in MN. His federal and state sentences were approximately the same, being served concurrently. So he’s not getting out of prison any earlier than he already was.
jun 16, 2025, 5:19 pm • 2 0 • view
Minnesota isn’t gonna let him loose. They’ll put him in prison with murders and cop killers instead. Not tax evaders and white collar criminals. And idk if you know this, but he was stabbed in the fed prison he is currently sitting in.
jun 16, 2025, 4:56 pm • 2 0 • view
Yep. I’m betting he’s begging TACO not to pardon him, and might turn it down if it were offered. He does NOT want to go back to state Supermax.
jun 16, 2025, 5:22 pm • 3 2 • view
I know. I was thinking the same thing. If Trump was going to do it, he would have already. Even Margie tweeted about a pardon and she dropped that shit real quick.
jun 16, 2025, 5:31 pm • 1 0 • view
What's the penalty for MAGA White Fascist Domestic Terrorism in the USA, anyway, if any?
jun 16, 2025, 3:34 pm • 0 0 • view
He'll be a hero in jail and for the rest of his life when he is paroled. This will make him a symbol of liberty on the Right. We're not in Kansas anymore. This is the New US, with such people in it.
jun 16, 2025, 2:00 pm • 1 0 • view
So you know the future
jun 16, 2025, 2:04 pm • 0 0 • view
Nope, this place isn't for predicting the future, it's for shooting the breeze, holding forth, and putting in your 2 cents.
jun 16, 2025, 2:09 pm • 1 0 • view
As much as TFG might want to, he can't pardon state offenses.
jun 16, 2025, 2:03 pm • 4 0 • view
Can a Maga Gov if Minnesota elects one? In the 2024 general election, Donald Trump received 46.68% of the vote in Minnesota.
jun 16, 2025, 2:09 pm • 1 0 • view
MN will always be BLUE! No chance of a Trump Thug Terrorist (TTT) winning in MN, especially now!
jun 16, 2025, 2:30 pm • 2 0 • view
Not by himself and not until at least 5 years post- conviction.
jun 16, 2025, 2:14 pm • 0 0 • view
mn.gov/crc/apply/pa...
jun 16, 2025, 2:14 pm • 0 0 • view
Thank you, that was bothering me.
jun 16, 2025, 11:24 pm • 1 0 • view
Lets hope they look after him in his cell?!
jun 16, 2025, 6:34 pm • 0 0 • view
To shine a bit more light on this, it's my understanding that a 2nd degree murder charge may be (is?) followed by impaneling a grand jury which may then bring a 1st degree murder indictment. In other words, only grand juries in MN can bring 1st degree murder indictments.
jun 16, 2025, 8:43 pm • 3 1 • view
Why isn’t it terrorism? Can they add charges later?
jun 16, 2025, 2:30 pm • 2 0 • view
Hi Joyce! I’m a Minnesotan. Here’s what our local reporters are saying about moving from second-degree to first-degree murder charge
jun 16, 2025, 1:59 pm • 75 12 • view
Will he also be charged with impersonating a police officer? I haven’t heard that charge mentioned..
jun 16, 2025, 2:45 pm • 2 0 • view
Usually when they have major multiple murder charges, there's nothing to be gained by adding in side charges like impersonating. It just complicates the case. It's up to the prosecutors whether they consider it useful.
jun 16, 2025, 3:29 pm • 1 0 • view
appreciate the information. thanks
jun 17, 2025, 12:43 am • 1 0 • view
Notice many American laws protect the criminal and punishes the victims.
jun 16, 2025, 2:48 pm • 5 2 • view
Grand Jury required for 1st degree charges in Minnesota. Standard practice is to file 2nd and then convene GJ.
jun 16, 2025, 2:00 pm • 31 0 • view
So kill a billionaire and get no bail and the death penalty but kill and wound politicians and their spouses and get bail and 2nd degree. Got it
jun 17, 2025, 3:12 am • 2 0 • view
Wow, that is unusual but I'd rather this guy get state charged than federal as tRump would probably pardon him.
jun 16, 2025, 3:29 pm • 40 0 • view
He’ll be charged in both systems.
jun 16, 2025, 7:17 pm • 3 1 • view
I did wonder about the second-degree murder charge rather than first degree. But I’m not a lawyer. I waited for an answer.
jun 16, 2025, 4:47 pm • 0 0 • view
A grand jury can up the charge. Also, we'd prefer not to have the Feds. The kumquat in chief made noise about pardoning Derek Chauvin and it's probably because Keith Ellison had state charges in place that he did not. I wouldn't trust Bondi's henchmen or the kumquat but Mr. Ellison is a stalwart.
jun 16, 2025, 11:44 pm • 11 2 • view
Thanks for the clarity
jun 16, 2025, 2:15 pm • 1 0 • view
Thank you for clarification on that !! 💖
jun 16, 2025, 3:28 pm • 2 0 • view
This fairly standard here in Minnesota
jun 16, 2025, 6:15 pm • 0 0 • view
This may be the charge just to hold him and they add 1st degree later
jun 16, 2025, 7:18 pm • 1 0 • view
Hennepin County: www.cnbc.com/2025/06/16/m...
jun 16, 2025, 5:23 pm • 0 1 • view
IIRC: NY has a similar 1st/2nd deg. difference where the victims have to meet certain criteria or a specific crime has to be committed during the act to get bumped up to 1st degree. Quick look at Minn. statute shows that 1st degree requires premeditation and/or a specific crime be committed.
jun 16, 2025, 2:30 pm • 1 0 • view
I figured it was just a placeholder charge and that they will be updated after the Grand Jury convenes or whatever else they have to do. Guess not.
jun 16, 2025, 2:30 pm • 1 0 • view
bsky.app/profile/joyc...
jun 16, 2025, 3:18 pm • 0 0 • view
He had a list of lawmakers he was targeting. That's definitely premeditated right there.
jun 16, 2025, 2:33 pm • 1 0 • view
Yeah. Which is why I think the 2nd degree is just a placeholder until actual charges are filed. There's a very good chance I'm wrong though. Not remotely close to my area of expertise.
jun 16, 2025, 2:36 pm • 0 0 • view
It has to go before Grand Jury to upgrade to Murder 1. Read the other replies in the thread
jun 16, 2025, 2:37 pm • 1 0 • view
There was premeditation and that only gets second degree?
jun 16, 2025, 2:17 pm • 1 0 • view
As I said above - it's about what you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt. The MN state authorities have him cold, I understand, on 2nd-degree murder, so they're going with that, but if they can develop the evidence to nail him on 1st, they'll do it.
jun 16, 2025, 2:26 pm • 4 0 • view
Makes sense.
jun 16, 2025, 2:36 pm • 1 0 • view
I wonder if the assailant knew that about the only possible charge against him. I suspect he sees himself as an avenger and a martyr.
jun 16, 2025, 3:25 pm • 0 0 • view
Trump pardons are always possible in federal court. We need to Keep This in State court.
jun 17, 2025, 1:38 am • 1 0 • view
Thank you. Not sure many understand this.
jun 16, 2025, 6:56 pm • 2 0 • view
I don’t know why many lawyers outside of MN would be familiar with such an odd procedure.
jun 16, 2025, 7:16 pm • 1 0 • view
I wasn't. Sounds like a good thing except for this case. But rule of law applies even to this horrible zealot.
jun 16, 2025, 7:20 pm • 1 0 • view
I also think he’ll be federally indicted. If he’s not pardoned he will face the death penalty.
jun 16, 2025, 7:39 pm • 3 0 • view
I believe that after the charge the DA files a superseding indictment for first degree. I’m sure there’s a history behind that but I still think it’s weird.
jun 16, 2025, 7:37 pm • 1 0 • view
Sometime I think these arcane laws are job protection for lawyers. Best role ever is local counsel.
jun 16, 2025, 7:52 pm • 2 0 • view
We had what was colloquially called the “Franklin County Hearsay Rule.” It bore no relationship to the Rules of Evidence but the older judges enforced it. It made out of county counsel insane.
jun 16, 2025, 7:55 pm • 1 0 • view
We understand is the Federal Justice Department is corrupt, and will put a thumb on the scale wherever they see fit.
jun 16, 2025, 7:03 pm • 1 0 • view
If you write or say it Joyce Vance, then I know it is TRUTH.
jun 16, 2025, 6:07 pm • 1 0 • view
None of these people giving this press conference give me much hope
jun 16, 2025, 4:36 pm • 0 0 • view
Thank you- I was wondering about that
jun 16, 2025, 3:08 pm • 1 0 • view
They don't think it was premeditated? Because that's the only difference I found.
jun 16, 2025, 2:00 pm • 2 0 • view
He'll get 1st degree charges after a grand jury reviews the case. S.O.P. in MN.
jun 16, 2025, 2:05 pm • 6 0 • view
That makes sense, thanks.
jun 16, 2025, 2:43 pm • 1 0 • view
Thank you for explaining. I saw that charge and was outraged (apparently for nothing... out of ignorance).
jun 16, 2025, 2:02 pm • 3 0 • view
Actually this may be more applicable. www.bonalaw.com/insights/leg...
jun 17, 2025, 2:11 am • 0 0 • view
Will the DOJ try to move this case to federal court? www.congress.gov/crs-product/...
jun 17, 2025, 2:06 am • 0 0 • view
jun 17, 2025, 2:07 am • 0 0 • view
Why no hate charge? Terrorism charge? Aggravated assassination? Killing a people’s representative should have higher-order penalties.
jun 16, 2025, 3:02 pm • 7 0 • view
Terrorism is a Federal charge. It all depends on state law. Some states haven't put in higher penalties for killing an elected official, because they haven't ever needed it. If ordinary murder carries a life sentence, what use would it be to add on more?
jun 16, 2025, 3:25 pm • 2 0 • view
Good to know.
jun 16, 2025, 2:02 pm • 1 0 • view
THANK YOU for clarifying that.
jun 16, 2025, 2:23 pm • 1 0 • view
Aside from the fact that it is premeditated with special circumstances, but maybe only in California, not Minnesota...
jun 16, 2025, 4:55 pm • 1 0 • view
I wondered....
jun 16, 2025, 5:09 pm • 0 0 • view
Thank you Joyce. I feel better.
jun 16, 2025, 2:13 pm • 1 0 • view
Thanks for the clarification! It helps to know that information. Keeping his trial at the state level ensures dumpy can’t pardon him.
jun 16, 2025, 3:13 pm • 3 1 • view
See this analysis, e.g. bsky.app/profile/qasi...
jun 16, 2025, 2:39 pm • 1 0 • view
Seems to me that he committed an act of terrorism and should be executed.
jun 16, 2025, 3:41 pm • 2 0 • view
They need to relook at their laws … A man who premeditatedly murder two people should be up for life in prison
jun 16, 2025, 5:57 pm • 1 2 • view
Thanks, Joyce. You're the best 👌
jun 16, 2025, 2:36 pm • 1 0 • view
Glad it'll be state charges so Donny can't pardon him.
jun 16, 2025, 1:59 pm • 15 1 • view
youtu.be/PtbumqK78nA?...
jun 17, 2025, 1:55 pm • 0 0 • view
Thanks Joyce!
jun 16, 2025, 9:40 pm • 0 0 • view
It was clearly premeditated...
jun 16, 2025, 3:43 pm • 1 0 • view
The main thing is he has been captured. Now comes the task of piecing all the evidence together to see where it leads. It appears pretty clear what the motives were per his “manifesto”. He had a rather long hit list. I am sure the hatred from Trump played a role in this, words have consequences.
jun 16, 2025, 2:59 pm • 1 0 • view
* Vance Boelter Is a dead-letter-literal-interpretation of the Bible Christian fundamentalist that is anti-abortion , anti-gay, anti-trans etc.. The same 77 million voters identified with Trump’s madness. Without the religious right, Trump would never been President.
jun 16, 2025, 2:06 pm • 5 0 • view
bsky.app/profile/jame...
jun 16, 2025, 2:38 pm • 2 0 • view
Additional charges to follow. After all the evidence is gathered/reviewed, possibly even conspiracy charges
jun 16, 2025, 2:47 pm • 2 0 • view
I was struggling with this earlier, so thank you for this!
jun 16, 2025, 6:25 pm • 1 0 • view
Thanks for that, Joyce. It definitely raised a question in my mind, and I appreciate your addressing it before it turns into a conspiracy theory basis.
jun 16, 2025, 2:53 pm • 1 0 • view
Thanks for clarifying
jun 16, 2025, 2:34 pm • 1 0 • view
Initial second degree charges helped them secure the warrant. Charges are now first degree.
jun 16, 2025, 9:01 pm • 4 0 • view
Any time they take a media-focused bad guy alive, you know it’s a crackpot white dude with a high % of MAGA brain. Vast majority are 28-50 ish white incels.
jun 16, 2025, 7:49 pm • 0 0 • view
A good explanation shared by Jay Kuo earlier regarding the charges currently filed in MN - considering he was just taken into custody yesterday, Sunday evening. bsky.app/profile/rend...
jun 16, 2025, 5:47 pm • 3 3 • view
Thank you for explaining that. I thought 2nd degree murder was serious under charging.
jun 16, 2025, 9:22 pm • 0 0 • view
It seems rather ODD compared to the Minnesota statute. "First-Degree Murder (MN Statute 609.185) Definition: First-degree murder involves the intentional killing of another person with premeditation." Is there a reason why is this statute not applicable? The murder was clearly not an accident.
jun 16, 2025, 2:33 pm • 10 0 • view
Under Minnesota law, murder two is the highest he can be charged with at the time of arrest. Now it will go to a grand jury, where it will no doubt be increased to murder one with possible other charges being added. All state crimes w/ no option for federal pardon.
jun 16, 2025, 2:35 pm • 21 2 • view
Thank you for explaining, I was wondering about that.
jun 16, 2025, 2:48 pm • 1 0 • view
They just need to keep the DOJ out of it
jun 16, 2025, 2:21 pm • 4 1 • view
A charge of 1st degree murder requires a grand jury hearing. 2nd degree does not. They can charge 2nd degree murder to make a quick arrest and go to a grand jury later to indict on 1st degree murder charges, which is what MN plans to pursue.
jun 17, 2025, 1:05 pm • 5 0 • view
Thanks for telling us.
jun 16, 2025, 4:44 pm • 0 0 • view
I was more concerned with the federal government getting involved. However it sounds like the state and the feds are charging him. Strange that this isn’t first degree as it was planned and intentionally. His arrest picture, he looks proud, no remorse.
jun 16, 2025, 3:42 pm • 2 0 • view
Thanks so much for clarifying this point.
jun 16, 2025, 4:24 pm • 0 0 • view
Thank you
jun 16, 2025, 2:31 pm • 2 0 • view
Trump likes to Pardon Criminals. Whats the timeline bet on Trump giving this murderer a Pardon, since he went after Democrats🤔 on Trumps watch🤨🤔. JUST-ICE or JUST-US🥴🤠😵😎😡
jun 16, 2025, 5:18 pm • 0 0 • view
Do you know why it is odd like that? I understand it, but I'm trying to figure out what the purpose of it would actually be.
jun 16, 2025, 1:57 pm • 1 0 • view
I think requiring a grand jury to bring 1st degree murder charges (which is likely going to happen in this case) is just a safeguard to help prevent someone being railroaded at trial and wrongfully convicted. Which happens more than you’d think.
jun 16, 2025, 2:08 pm • 4 0 • view
It would be federal if it was opposite party ass in ated
jun 16, 2025, 3:12 pm • 2 0 • view
I just can’t understand how these premeditated murders and attempted murders could be “second-degree,” but at least the FOTUS can’t pardon him and I’m sure the Minnesota Governor won’t.
jun 16, 2025, 2:53 pm • 4 0 • view
Thank you for the facts!
jun 16, 2025, 3:12 pm • 1 0 • view
He should be charged as a terrorist
jun 16, 2025, 5:02 pm • 2 0 • view
If it's the highest available, why is it called second-degree?
jun 16, 2025, 2:33 pm • 1 0 • view
He should get 1000 yrs in prison. Taking a life should be automatic death sentence IMO
jun 16, 2025, 2:10 pm • 1 0 • view
Thank you for clarity on this. I wondered about that charge.
jun 16, 2025, 2:40 pm • 1 0 • view
It’s all moot. Trump will pardon him and give him a medal FFS.
jun 16, 2025, 2:26 pm • 1 0 • view
jun 16, 2025, 2:35 pm • 1 0 • view
Yeh but you get the sentiment.
jun 16, 2025, 6:05 pm • 0 0 • view
State murder charge. Not Federal. TACO can't do shit.
jun 16, 2025, 2:30 pm • 1 0 • view
Can confirm. (I used to be a judicial clerk for the Minnesota Supreme Court.) The fully expected first-degree murder charge can only come here after some more procedural steps that haven't had time to happen yet.
jun 16, 2025, 2:52 pm • 26 0 • view
Thanks for the clarification. (State court clerkships are awesome -- I was a judicial clerk at the NH SC long ago.)
jun 16, 2025, 3:27 pm • 5 0 • view
I saw reports last night that a grand jury indictment is necessary for a first-degree murder charge in Minnesota. If true, I expect that will happen.
jun 16, 2025, 1:57 pm • 114 0 • view
(I am a former judicial clerk for the Minnesota Supreme Court. Part of my work was appellate review of 1st degree murder cases.) Yes, there will undoubtedly be an indictment resulting in first-degree murder charges here in Minnesota. Don't worry about it.
jun 16, 2025, 2:54 pm • 6 0 • view
Thank you for confirming this.
jun 16, 2025, 3:13 pm • 1 0 • view
grand jury indictments are incredibly easy to the degree of being a sham. "I can indict a ham sandwich" is not a joke it's literally true
jun 16, 2025, 2:03 pm • 32 2 • view
You can indict anything with nipples.
jun 16, 2025, 2:40 pm • 0 0 • view
So…all mammals ✅
jun 16, 2025, 5:31 pm • 1 0 • view
It would probably be harder to indict a ham sandwich.
jun 16, 2025, 3:00 pm • 1 0 • view
They can indict a ham sandwich? That doesn't sound kosher.
jun 16, 2025, 2:14 pm • 61 0 • view
Sounds like quite a pickle.
jun 16, 2025, 2:17 pm • 44 0 • view
Either way he's toast.
jun 16, 2025, 2:31 pm • 44 0 • view
Spam in a can.
jun 16, 2025, 2:48 pm • 4 0 • view
😎👍
jun 16, 2025, 2:35 pm • 12 0 • view
Are you folks done?
jun 17, 2025, 4:51 pm • 1 0 • view
Well done.
jun 17, 2025, 4:55 pm • 0 0 • view
Please lettuce continue. We relish it so, and we have not yet mustard all of our powers of punnery.
jun 17, 2025, 4:58 pm • 1 0 • view
I should have known.
jun 17, 2025, 5:06 pm • 1 0 • view
Olive us love a good pun.
jun 17, 2025, 5:08 pm • 0 0 • view
Note: thanks for some fun in this awful orange menace news cycle.
jun 17, 2025, 5:07 pm • 1 0 • view
jun 17, 2025, 12:33 am • 1 0 • view
100%
jun 16, 2025, 2:41 pm • 2 0 • view
🤦🏼♀️
jun 16, 2025, 5:30 pm • 0 0 • view
Aaaaaa
jun 16, 2025, 5:50 pm • 0 0 • view
jun 16, 2025, 2:26 pm • 0 0 • view
Corned beef is possible too
jun 16, 2025, 2:42 pm • 1 0 • view
These comments just made my day🤣🤣🤣
jun 16, 2025, 3:18 pm • 1 0 • view
Hell...did you see how that ham sandwich was dressed? I'll get hate for showing explicit photos, but I hope that we're all mature enough to handle it.
jun 16, 2025, 3:16 pm • 2 0 • view
Lettuce ensure they follow through with the indictment.
jun 16, 2025, 2:59 pm • 2 0 • view
If he discussed pardon with anyone connected with President Trump BEFORE the assassination and assassination attempts, it is pre-meditated and conspiracy to commit murder.
jun 16, 2025, 4:04 pm • 2 0 • view
Thank all for getting at least one total nut job Trump supporter off the streets at least.
jun 16, 2025, 3:57 pm • 1 0 • view
The big dude / roommate to this domestic terrorist stated that the perp has a LARGE NETWORK of FRIENDS He very likely had planned to hide out with them as he went on the move to escape capture One news report stated that his wife had clothing, passports & $$$ on her possession when LEOs found her
jun 16, 2025, 5:56 pm • 4 0 • view
I read that too. So glad he didn't succeed.
jun 16, 2025, 5:59 pm • 0 0 • view
I hope this Assembly of God preacher is also charged with murdering the family dog.
jun 16, 2025, 3:41 pm • 1 0 • view
Arent u concerned Ms Vance that he’s being charged with federal crimes. Trump can pardon him. This was a direct attack on the state of MN. Cant he be tried under state law? Dont u agree it’s preferable? Am i missing something here?
jun 16, 2025, 4:59 pm • 2 0 • view
Can it be bumped up to first degree murder there?
jun 16, 2025, 3:25 pm • 2 0 • view
Once premeditation (mens rea), is established, likely, yes.
jun 16, 2025, 3:40 pm • 5 0 • view
Then let’s not talk Minnesota nice. A pre-planned execution isn’t 1st degree, then what is?
jun 16, 2025, 4:21 pm • 1 0 • view
Grand Jury will charge him with 1st. It’s procedural. As well as other charges, I’m sure.
jun 16, 2025, 4:51 pm • 2 0 • view
I see that USA for MN going for 1st. Heard nothing further about local prosecutor.
jun 17, 2025, 10:26 am • 2 0 • view
They could still be gathering evidence. It happened four days ago.
jun 17, 2025, 11:42 am • 0 0 • view
Funny, I don’t trust most of Trump appointed USA’s, but it took them 2 day of going over the documents they found in his car to establish it was pre-meditated. Sorry if locals are that slow on the uptake.
jun 17, 2025, 11:44 am • 0 0 • view
Thank you to all the fact-based people explaining how MN law works!
jun 16, 2025, 2:37 pm • 3 0 • view
I suspect a grand jury could return a 1st degree murder charge.
jun 16, 2025, 3:14 pm • 1 0 • view
40 years on each charge. Do they have to sentence him consecutively?
jun 16, 2025, 2:36 pm • 5 0 • view
Usually consecutive vs. concurrent is up to the sentencing judge. The man is 57 years old, so it may not matter.
jun 16, 2025, 3:34 pm • 5 0 • view
I didn’t know that. I’m glad he’s now facing Federal charges including multiple potential life sentences if convicted.
jun 16, 2025, 5:53 pm • 1 0 • view
He is not a lone wolf either….
jun 16, 2025, 2:22 pm • 2 0 • view
I’m sorry but first-degree murder is what he did he planned he planned and planned and planned and he had a list of people it’s first degree and he deserves a death penalty. Somebody needs to make sure that happens. Sure, I did hear from Miss DOJ when the guy from the insurance company was murdered
jun 16, 2025, 2:13 pm • 3 0 • view
Under Minnesota law, murder two is the highest he can be charged with at the time of arrest. Now it will go to a grand jury, where it will no doubt be increased to murder one with possible other charges being added. All state crimes w/ no option for federal pardon.
jun 16, 2025, 2:32 pm • 12 2 • view
I understand your reply you’re actually right and yeah, I’m getting old. I guess I forget stuff, but I know it’s here in Jersey, but I didn’t know the time for us. They could only charge second- degree and then when it goes to grand jury, it could be higher.
jun 16, 2025, 2:36 pm • 1 0 • view
I understand that but the rules are totally wrong in New Jersey if that happened, he would be charged with first-degree murder and he would get the death penalty, but I don’t think we have a death penalty here anymore. I don’t know.
jun 16, 2025, 2:35 pm • 2 1 • view
I am told by a criminal attorney that the reason they require a grand jury to up the charges is to prevent any chance of mistrial or wrongful conviction. I personally think life imprisonment is a far worse punishment than death.
jun 16, 2025, 2:38 pm • 6 0 • view
True that but it is a waste of money, For a lifer! But I do that it is hell in prison!
jun 16, 2025, 2:42 pm • 1 0 • view
Death penalty cases always lead to multiple very costly appeals & end up costing much more than life imprisonment.
jun 16, 2025, 2:52 pm • 1 0 • view
I agree Fiona
jun 16, 2025, 2:39 pm • 1 0 • view
Thank you. I hope he gets life without parole. They are unleashing their army of orcs.
jun 16, 2025, 2:37 pm • 2 0 • view
thank you fir clarifying. Has Mike Lee been expelled or arrested yet?
jun 16, 2025, 2:33 pm • 6 1 • view
The first step that the House can take is to censure him. I sure as F he eventually gets expelled, because he can't be voted out until 2028.
jun 16, 2025, 2:55 pm • 4 1 • view
The fact that he hasn’t been means he’s one of their treasured little eichmanns. The regime loves that hate. Loves it. He’s a soldier for their cause. They won’t touch him, Fi. But the Dems can make alot of noise
jun 16, 2025, 2:57 pm • 6 0 • view
Thank you
jun 16, 2025, 4:11 pm • 1 0 • view
This guy must fry. Shouldn't he also be charged at a federal level as well? I agree with you 100%!
jun 16, 2025, 2:43 pm • 0 0 • view
Why no federal charges?
jun 16, 2025, 3:20 pm • 0 0 • view
Because turnip would be able to pardon him........
jun 16, 2025, 3:22 pm • 4 0 • view
He also faces the federal death penalty if they charge him. I don’t see Trump pardoning him. MAGA is saying he’s a Dem because their collective IQ is sub-normal.
jun 16, 2025, 7:14 pm • 3 0 • view
Plus they don't want federal charges. Trump will pardon him.
jun 16, 2025, 9:02 pm • 0 0 • view
I think the concern is the fact that they charged Luigi with terrorism but so far those charges haven’t come for this guy.
jun 16, 2025, 3:48 pm • 2 0 • view
yes please put state charges on there so he can't be pardoned by Trump. This is smart play by the MN prosecutors office. Fed charges and state charges so he can't be pardoned like J6ers.
jun 16, 2025, 8:20 pm • 2 0 • view
Dump will probably pardon him.
jun 16, 2025, 5:58 pm • 1 0 • view
Terrorism should be an added charge.
jun 16, 2025, 3:14 pm • 1 0 • view
Adding Federal charges would be a huge mistake, IMO. Federal charges take precedence, and you know this DOJ would slow-walk, obstruct, and ultimately issue pardons. That would prevent MN from moving on the state charges. The man is already facing multiple life-sentences, so there's no value to more.
jun 16, 2025, 3:21 pm • 8 1 • view
Oh, great point. Thank you for the clarity. Trump would pardon him.
jun 16, 2025, 3:26 pm • 1 0 • view
My thoughts too Thanks.
jun 16, 2025, 5:19 pm • 1 0 • view
I think Don and trump will find a way to exonerate him so I’m glad they’ll file state charges. Even then who knows??
jun 16, 2025, 3:27 pm • 1 0 • view
DOJ ^
jun 16, 2025, 4:03 pm • 1 0 • view
I’m seeing more concern for why he LOOKED ENTIRELY UNRUFFLED.
jun 16, 2025, 2:21 pm • 1 0 • view
I strongly suspect he ran to where he did because he knew he'd be treated with kid gloves by the cops there. dude was cop adjacent, he knew which cops would protect him
jun 16, 2025, 2:27 pm • 3 0 • view
Yes 👆🏼grrrrr
jun 16, 2025, 2:59 pm • 1 0 • view
They will get a grand jury indictment for first degree (required under MN law) and file a superseding indictment. The guy is toast and he cannot be pardoned by you know who —- state murder charges.
jun 16, 2025, 2:00 pm • 620 47 • view
Except for the rumor that the feds are picking him up and taking jurisdiction over the case...
jun 16, 2025, 3:31 pm • 0 0 • view
Nope. Hennepin County is bringing the charges.
jun 16, 2025, 3:33 pm • 5 0 • view
Right on!
jun 16, 2025, 2:41 pm • 10 0 • view
👍🏽
jun 16, 2025, 2:50 pm • 0 0 • view
He should be executed immediately following conviction! As long as we know for certain they got the right guy!
jun 16, 2025, 4:34 pm • 0 0 • view
Dump’s broken enough laws that he probably will pardon him regardless. And I thought he was being brought up on federal charges.
jun 16, 2025, 5:59 pm • 0 0 • view
Nope …. Hennepin County file second degree and will get first degree indictment. Guy absolutely will not walk.
jun 16, 2025, 6:02 pm • 0 0 • view
Exactly
jun 16, 2025, 3:01 pm • 187 5 • view
You explained this same thing in 2020 re: Chauvin.
jun 16, 2025, 4:19 pm • 2 0 • view
I wondered what you meant by your comment and read the statute. He qualifies for a first degree murder charge, clearly, but I understand that the grand jury process will produce the superceding indictment. Life without parole is entirely appropriate.
jun 16, 2025, 3:58 pm • 64 3 • view
Tax payers shouldn’t have to foot the bill for this guy being in prison for life. Stick him in a pine box
jun 16, 2025, 4:05 pm • 26 1 • view
It's far more expensive to kill someone than to imprison them for life. Appeals trials can go on for decades. It varies from state to state, but a life sentence is $500k-$750k whereas a death sentence can cost $1.5m-$3.5m.
jun 16, 2025, 7:20 pm • 1 0 • view
Yes our injustice system is highly inefficient
jun 16, 2025, 7:21 pm • 1 0 • view
Execution costs much more and hurts him less. Make him suffer until he dies. In many years!
jun 17, 2025, 1:12 pm • 1 0 • view
This! So many people do not understand this.
jun 17, 2025, 2:20 pm • 1 0 • view
Before Trump pardons him
jun 16, 2025, 5:39 pm • 0 0 • view
A pardon won’t get him out of state charges unless MN elects an R governor
jun 16, 2025, 5:40 pm • 0 0 • view
Much, much more expensive to execute him. Perhaps ten times more.
jun 16, 2025, 7:15 pm • 37 0 • view
Yeah. Put him in gen pop.
jun 17, 2025, 2:01 am • 0 0 • view
If convicted he’ll be in some Super Max somewhere. I wish they could send him to El Salvador.
jun 17, 2025, 5:22 pm • 1 0 • view
Not quite 10X, but kim is exactly right. Further, contemplate being 40something and NEVER getting out of prison. Which would you rather, quick death, slow languishing? Stupid as he is, 🍊taco won't try to pardon him. Even if he did, staye charges will hold his bitch ass.
jun 16, 2025, 7:32 pm • 17 0 • view
He's 57, and he won't have a gun to fight with... his pussy ass is toast.
jun 16, 2025, 7:48 pm • 6 1 • view
Not sure which argument you're making. I stand corrected on age. Thank you. So you prefer he suffer withou a gun, or prefer a quick death for him?
jun 16, 2025, 7:51 pm • 0 0 • view
I prefer he is loved to death by large angry men. I wasn't arguing.
jun 16, 2025, 8:57 pm • 10 0 • view
Me too😊just like his congregation preaches to do to little girls. I want that mfker knocked up and to slowly die of sepsis with a rotting necrotic fetus shoved in his pee hole or asshole. I'm not picky...
jun 17, 2025, 3:37 pm • 3 0 • view
Yes our injustice system is wildly inefficient I don’t want fascists being kept alive even if it is in a box for the rest of their natural life. A quick death means they won’t ever harm the community again
jun 16, 2025, 7:33 pm • 0 0 • view
Not much harm coming from the LWOP kids. LWOP cheaper. IMHO, death is more merciful. I'm just not in the mercy business.
jun 16, 2025, 8:12 pm • 0 0 • view
Executing existential threats to our communities isn’t mercy. It’s practical
jun 16, 2025, 8:14 pm • 0 0 • view
Not that practical. Sounds expensive to me. There are a few other social issues I'd rather see addressed. It's nearly $30 BB. For 18 mil we get 1 dead crook. People who haven't made a study of capital punishment often claim there's a deterrent effect. That's been proven false in a number of ways.
jun 16, 2025, 8:46 pm • 0 0 • view
Take all $ spent seeking a death sentence, divide by the # of offenders made dead by execution ( post-Furman. The yrs since reinstatement of DP), collectively taxpayers payed out 18 million per corpse. Whether one support DP or not, I hope we can agree that there's a better use for the 1630 X 18M $.
jun 16, 2025, 8:38 pm • 0 0 • view
He's not charged with, nor will her be convicted of, nor punished as, a fascist. Murder, attempted murder are state cases. Stalking and murder of a federal employee, etc. have nothing to do with fascism. Fascism isn't illegal Must be consistent here. Convicted for breaking law, punished accordingly
jun 16, 2025, 8:10 pm • 0 0 • view
In what way have I been inconsistent
jun 16, 2025, 8:11 pm • 0 0 • view
That’s because of our appeals system letting them sit on death row for 10-20 years as they appeal
jun 16, 2025, 7:16 pm • 0 0 • view
Yes. Are you saying you’d also do away with appeals? Then we become China.
jun 16, 2025, 7:18 pm • 0 0 • view
I would do away with our entire justice system Re: China. Okay boomer
jun 16, 2025, 7:20 pm • 0 0 • view
Boomer lawyer. I’ll match my JD against your Google search.
jun 16, 2025, 7:21 pm • 0 0 • view
Kim, your JD didn't out perform 30 minutes digging in the DPIC database. I respect the degree for general law, so much that I got one. But didn't stop there. The American death penalty story is embarrassing, disturbing, and indefensible as practiced; certainly pre-Furman. Post-F is mind boggling
jun 16, 2025, 7:48 pm • 0 0 • view
How’s the legal system working out for you these days?
jun 16, 2025, 7:22 pm • 0 0 • view
Sheikh, weigh in on death penalty issues, but read up on actual facts and what incurrs the expenses. LWOP is a much cheaper option. As inferred by Kim, I'm not sure it's a good idea to speed up or remove any of the meager safeguards . 2/3 of the death sentences given, are REVERSED by appeals courts.
jun 16, 2025, 7:38 pm • 1 0 • view
And the Innocence Project stats show wrongful convictions are common.
jun 16, 2025, 7:41 pm • 0 0 • view
Kim says that for every 8 executions, 1 has been exonerated. To be clear: not slipped away on technicality, not a liberal deciding to free a crook, found to have been INNOCENT- didn't do the thing for which the police arrested, DA prosecuted, jury unanimously convicted. And was 100% of this crime.
jun 16, 2025, 8:19 pm • 1 0 • view
Well versed in IP data as well as Hugo Bedau. I encourage someone as sharp as a JD, to always distinguish among wrongful convictions, wrongful convictions in DP, & cases of actual innocence. Similarities but not identical. Although I learned, if you wanna avoid wrongful conviction, try to be rich.
jun 16, 2025, 8:02 pm • 0 0 • view
I know the difference and volunteered for the OH IP. But actual innocence is a separate lawsuit to have a basis for damages. Unless thats’s determined (very rare and a high SOP) it’s a wrongful conviction.
jun 16, 2025, 8:09 pm • 0 0 • view
You are not telling me anything I don’t already know. I’m not advocating for bumping off fascists under our current system
jun 16, 2025, 7:40 pm • 0 0 • view
This country has historically fought off fascism from the beginning. I personally am happy to " bump off" fascist when called upon to do so. Whether they be foreign or domestic. Hoping for domestic. It's a shorter drive to work.
jun 16, 2025, 8:05 pm • 0 0 • view
We did so as a nation when it was convenient. Immediately afterwards we gave them jobs and made them comfortable
jun 16, 2025, 8:07 pm • 0 0 • view
It costs more to put him to death, let him sit and stew until his heart fails
jun 16, 2025, 8:15 pm • 2 0 • view
Or a Republican governor pardons him. No thanks Citing the inefficiencies and economics of our injustice system isn’t the argument you think it is
jun 16, 2025, 8:16 pm • 0 0 • view
The governor of Minnesota isn't a Republican
jun 16, 2025, 8:17 pm • 0 0 • view
The ‘current’ governor isnt. If you look at MN’s gubernatorial history, you will see they have consistently alternated
jun 16, 2025, 8:18 pm • 0 0 • view
Der zweitkürzeste Artikel des deutschen Grundgesetzes besteht aus vier Wörtern: Die Todesstrafe ist abgeschafft. (Art 102 GG) Und das ist auch gut so.
jun 16, 2025, 4:39 pm • 4 0 • view
Prison is for rehabilitation. If they can’t be in a work camp or rehabilitated then they don’t need to be a burden on the working class. Keeping predators in a cage for decades until they expire doesn’t make you moral or civilized. It makes you dumb
jun 16, 2025, 4:42 pm • 4 0 • view
Prison SHOULD be for rehabilitation. In reality it's only punishment.
jun 16, 2025, 7:14 pm • 0 0 • view
I’ve said as much elsewhere
jun 16, 2025, 7:17 pm • 1 0 • view
"Life without the possibility of parole" is cowardly and immoral. This is the rare political hill I'm willing to die on. If you're actually committed to the notion that an individual cannot ever be redeemed, then incarceration is just mundane torture.
jun 16, 2025, 6:55 pm • 1 0 • view
Exactly. These anti-death penalty people want to talk about not dehumanizing people lest we become monsters ourselves, then in the next breath they take is advocating for sticking a human in a box in perpetuity
jun 16, 2025, 6:57 pm • 1 0 • view
Um. With all due respect, you cannot count. I count 5. Words. In your statement. 1. The 2. Death 3. Penalty 4. Is 5. Abolished
jun 16, 2025, 5:52 pm • 0 0 • view
Four words: “Die Todesstrafe ist abgeschafft”. Five in English, but only four in German
jun 16, 2025, 6:15 pm • 1 0 • view
This is the great miracle of the German language: the formation of compound words. This is what makes the German language so precise. I can invent words that describe something exactly. E.g. Verkehrsinfrastrukturfinanzierungsgesellschaft : A company that finances transportation infrastructure
jun 16, 2025, 6:26 pm • 2 0 • view
That. Is Hella Word!
jun 16, 2025, 8:40 pm • 0 0 • view
I have chosen a word that is not so long. The word monster is often found in the names of laws and regulations. The longest word I have found is: Grundstücksverkehrsgenehmigungszuständigkeitsübertragungsverordnung. 67 Letters
jun 16, 2025, 8:51 pm • 1 0 • view
My favorite German word to date: backpfeifengesicht
jun 16, 2025, 8:42 pm • 0 0 • view
If that’s your reasoning, it is actually MORE expensive to execute someone than to imprison them for life. Many studies have shown this.
jun 16, 2025, 4:44 pm • 3 0 • view
That’s because they can appeal for 10-20 years. Which is also stupid
jun 16, 2025, 4:44 pm • 0 0 • view
Seems like all those prisoners who have been fully exonerated before execution would disagree with your opinion.
jun 16, 2025, 4:51 pm • 3 0 • view
That’s an indictment of this country’s shit justice system, not capital punishment
jun 16, 2025, 4:52 pm • 0 0 • view
No. It’s an indictment of every human justice system at every point in time. The limits of our knowledge and impartiality are inescapable fact, and all argument about capital punishment that omits them has failed and is irrelevant.
jun 16, 2025, 5:34 pm • 1 0 • view
Okay. When we inevitably Balkanize you can try perpetually imprisoning or rehabilitating the fascists. Hope it works out for you
jun 16, 2025, 5:36 pm • 0 0 • view
This whole thread is just cementing this person's status as a bloodthirsty psycho not worth entertaining.
jun 16, 2025, 6:13 pm • 1 0 • view
Or send him to a prison on Central America.
jun 16, 2025, 5:32 pm • 0 0 • view
jun 16, 2025, 5:33 pm • 0 0 • view
👍
jun 16, 2025, 7:26 pm • 0 0 • view
So, it is not possible for the Feds to start a murder trial and then have tRUmp pardon the guy and causing double jeopardy to attach? I read that that was a possibility (for financial crimes) in New York -- this being Minnesota.
jun 16, 2025, 5:34 pm • 0 0 • view
@joycewhitevance.bsky.social If the Feds also file charges against him can Pam Bondi throw out state charges or convictions?
jun 16, 2025, 4:39 pm • 0 0 • view
That was exactly my question. No federal charges. No DOJ 😡
jun 16, 2025, 8:29 pm • 0 0 • view
Thank you. Wish Joyce had made another OP saying this. She is usually good about explanations...
jun 16, 2025, 10:49 pm • 2 0 • view
She is. Thought I’d give an assist since all the lawlessness has put a lot on her plate 😏
jun 16, 2025, 4:56 pm • 2 0 • view
Sigh. It's true. Not even Joyce can be perfect all the time.
jun 17, 2025, 12:01 am • 1 0 • view
My fear is that is why the DOJ wants to intervene they will convict get death penalty and then Trump will pardon him and he will become an ICE agent. This needs to stay at the state level so he gets life with no parole.
jun 16, 2025, 4:21 pm • 0 0 • view
Let's hope so.
jun 16, 2025, 2:44 pm • 0 0 • view
Not to worry. The guy will never see daylight outside of a penitentiary.
jun 16, 2025, 2:46 pm • 2 0 • view
I do worry- "the tRump traitor" doesn't go through the same pardoning system as every single president in our history. I wouldn't put it past him to pardon him.
jun 16, 2025, 3:19 pm • 1 0 • view
thank God Biden can't pardon anyone else
jun 16, 2025, 3:14 pm • 0 0 • view
I’m old enough to remember learning this from you and the sisters in the case of George Floyd’s murder. 😞
jun 16, 2025, 3:59 pm • 1 0 • view
TY for some clarification!
jun 16, 2025, 4:15 pm • 0 0 • view
Yes. First degree would be the murder of a police officer. If they want first degree, they have to change the law.
jun 16, 2025, 3:35 pm • 1 0 • view
We need a column from you on how hating this man makes us no better than he is - no better than MAGA is. Because day-um, it's really difficult not to hate someone this vicious.
jun 16, 2025, 1:59 pm • 1 0 • view
we don’t need that because it doesn’t do that
jun 17, 2025, 12:21 pm • 0 0 • view
I can't agree. In my experience with hate, carrying it is like taking a dose of arsenic every day and thinking you aren't hurting yourself. Hate corrodes happiness, and causes real damage to the heart, mind, and soul. It's better to live free of that burden.
jun 17, 2025, 1:09 pm • 0 0 • view
Wow……MN does not believe in the death penalty
jun 16, 2025, 1:56 pm • 2 0 • view
We do not.
jun 16, 2025, 2:10 pm • 3 0 • view
Good. He can spend the rest of his life in jail, and doesn't get to be a martyr for the magats
jun 16, 2025, 2:09 pm • 7 0 • view
Delete this bullshit.
jun 16, 2025, 3:48 pm • 0 0 • view
Why? Does the truth hurt?
jun 16, 2025, 3:50 pm • 0 0 • view
It’s not the truth.
jun 16, 2025, 3:51 pm • 0 0 • view
It's a MAGA cockroach. Just block it.
jun 16, 2025, 4:01 pm • 0 0 • view
Thanks, Joyce. 👍🏻 We need to know.
jun 16, 2025, 2:30 pm • 2 0 • view
I get it now…but it still looks sketchy, and illustrates the mistrust this administration, and judges have created in the legal system lately.
jun 16, 2025, 7:33 pm • 3 0 • view
I agree, but Keith Ellison is our AG. He’s got this. ✊
jun 16, 2025, 8:26 pm • 1 0 • view
I appreciate who’s there, and I do understand now how things work in that state, but, I completely understand the average citizen’s skeptic reaction when seeing charges like this mentioned for crimes such as this. It shouldn’t be a surprise to note all the negative reaction in this case. 🫤
jun 16, 2025, 11:11 pm • 1 0 • view
So do I. Believe me. I even said as much when I was called in for jury duty a few years ago. The prosecution was NOT happy with my answers. They had zero questions for me after hearing my responses to the judge & the defense. It’s not that I don’t appreciate prosecutors, I do, but the system is bad.
jun 17, 2025, 2:12 am • 1 0 • view
Can it be classified as a Hate Crime?
jun 16, 2025, 4:01 pm • 1 0 • view
Can confirm. See: Derek Chauvin
jun 16, 2025, 3:25 pm • 0 0 • view
how can it be 2nd degree when he planned it?
jun 16, 2025, 2:40 pm • 2 0 • view
First is only chargeable by a Grand Jury in MN.
jun 16, 2025, 2:53 pm • 4 0 • view
Thanks for the clarification - I was thinking wondering about that too
jun 16, 2025, 2:56 pm • 1 0 • view
The only TRUE JUSTICE will come from other inmates, not from our fucked up injustice system
jun 17, 2025, 3:39 pm • 1 0 • view
Good to know. Thanks.
jun 16, 2025, 3:38 pm • 0 0 • view
Can and will, federal terrorism charges against this killer be brought? I hope so, since the black and brown public would be quickly prosecuted for terrorism.
jun 16, 2025, 2:39 pm • 2 0 • view
Why would you want the prosecution controlled by Pam Bondi and Trump's Dept of (In)Justice? Leave it to the state of MN which has every incentive to proceed diligently and far more competently.
jun 16, 2025, 3:31 pm • 3 0 • view
Trump turned American justice into a corrupt whore house, so…
jun 16, 2025, 11:33 pm • 2 0 • view
And let’s get ready for Trump pardon to his loyalist
jun 16, 2025, 3:19 pm • 0 0 • view
Thanks for the heads up.
jun 16, 2025, 5:06 pm • 0 0 • view
Thank you for your expertise
jun 16, 2025, 4:21 pm • 0 0 • view
MOB . . . do your justice
jun 16, 2025, 3:01 pm • 1 0 • view
He shot 4 people, 2 which died. He planned this. Is that not premeditated murder?
jun 16, 2025, 3:48 pm • 3 0 • view
A planned political assassination not being considered murder in the first degree is an unusual statute for sure. But I believe you.
jun 16, 2025, 7:35 pm • 0 0 • view
Perhaps since tRump & the right-wing Hate Monger channels have stocked so much hatred towards Democrats it could be classified as a hate crime.
jun 16, 2025, 2:43 pm • 2 0 • view
& dammit auto(not)correct--I typed STOKED, not stocked.
jun 16, 2025, 3:25 pm • 0 0 • view
Thank you for the explanation. I was one of those confused by the second-degree charge.
jun 16, 2025, 2:32 pm • 1 0 • view
Got to keep it in Minnesota.
jun 16, 2025, 5:00 pm • 5 0 • view
MN attorney here. First Degree is by Grand Jury. I believe that he will be charged with First in due course.
jun 16, 2025, 2:22 pm • 12 1 • view
Thank u for clarifying.
jun 16, 2025, 2:35 pm • 1 0 • view
Time to change the statute!
jun 16, 2025, 3:09 pm • 1 0 • view
Oddly I imagine they know what they’re doing better than your average commentator.
jun 16, 2025, 4:37 pm • 1 0 • view
The Hennepin County DA is unusual. She was a public defender
jun 16, 2025, 6:30 pm • 0 0 • view
And yet, this was the definition of domestic terrorism.
jun 17, 2025, 1:17 am • 0 0 • view
Is it guaranteed it will stay a state charge and not changed to federal? Many worried a federal conviction would be pardoned.
jun 16, 2025, 1:56 pm • 5 0 • view
Despite the possibility of this i dont think it will happen. Trump did a lot of shit.. but if he pardoned a terrorist that killed his political opponents that might even cost him teh support of whats left of the republican party.. and at those slim margins end up with him getting disposed.
jun 16, 2025, 1:59 pm • 3 0 • view
We shouldn’t even give him the chance. Every time I’ve been told “nah Trump wouldn’t do that” he goes and does it. :| No offense to you, I wish I shared your optimism
jun 16, 2025, 2:43 pm • 4 0 • view
Normally i would fully agree with you. We have been to countless "he wont do that" situations and got to see he did it though... but so far he didnt do anything that would put him into danger directly. This is why he chickens out at tarriffs, doenst defy SCOTUS orders or does even more dictatorial..
jun 16, 2025, 2:55 pm • 2 0 • view
bullshit. That is... SO FAR. Trump is very transactional and as of now i dont see his personal gain if he pardoned that killer. Majorities are of no interest to him anyway so the senate majorites dont bother him anyway. and as long as the mother of vance doesnt give him some cash he wouldnt do it.
jun 16, 2025, 2:57 pm • 3 0 • view
but this is maybe some major optimism at work.. but also this is how trump has shown how he works in the past years. The only very diversion from this was the pardon of the Jan 6ers.. i still havent figured out what his personal gain was in this expensive trade..
jun 16, 2025, 2:58 pm • 2 0 • view
You’re right - sometimes he does the right thing out of narcisstic horrible reasons. It’s happened once or twice 🤷♂️ It’s a bit of a gamble - but I’ll try to keep every 🌮 moment in mind.
jun 16, 2025, 10:12 pm • 0 0 • view
‼️
jun 16, 2025, 11:41 pm • 0 0 • view
Um.....he would TOTALLY do it!!!!
jun 16, 2025, 11:41 pm • 0 0 • view
Quick/dirty explanation: There's a number of ways it could be changed to a federal charge (which I'm not going to get into now), but basically none of them apply or if they do apply, won't result in an additional charge. Also state charges don't just go away because you're charged federally.
jun 16, 2025, 2:03 pm • 9 0 • view
I would think the only federal charge applicable would be committing an act of terrorism (which is what they got Luigi on, IIRC). Even if he were pardoned for that, all the state charges would still go ahead. There is a federal crime regarding threats to federal employees which is a possibility.
jun 16, 2025, 2:34 pm • 3 0 • view
Thank you.
jun 16, 2025, 2:06 pm • 1 0 • view
I could have explained that a lot better but thank you.
jun 16, 2025, 2:08 pm • 0 0 • view
As long as he’s prosecuted by the state, Trump can’t dismiss the conviction. Federal would be a separate case. Unlikely Trump’s US Attorney will file charges if applicable.
jun 16, 2025, 3:24 pm • 1 0 • view
The feds can charge if they want but that wouldn’t make the state charges go away.
jun 16, 2025, 2:08 pm • 1 0 • view
Trump is asking to make it federal. 1st degree may come from grand jury in Mn still.
jun 16, 2025, 2:14 pm • 1 0 • view
Maybe both. Derek Chauvin was a terrific example. He was convicted for both federal and state charges. That's why trunt hasn't pardoned him. He'd just change from the nice fed prison to one of the worse state ones where he'd get 23+1 in a disciplinary cell. Nowhere else to protect someone like him.
jun 16, 2025, 3:14 pm • 0 0 • view
Are they not charging the same as for Luigi Mangione because that would be federal and they are afraid Taco and his corrupt DOJ would dismiss a conviction?
jun 16, 2025, 2:01 pm • 2 0 • view
They will amend the charges to 1st degree, after they make the legal case, apparently reporting states this isn’t uncommon. I’m concerned about a Federal charge that Trump can “pardon” down the road. Keep State charges in play.
jun 16, 2025, 2:08 pm • 27 2 • view
Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison will make sure of this.
jun 16, 2025, 3:33 pm • 12 0 • view
He'll still be in a MN prison for life.
jun 16, 2025, 2:32 pm • 11 0 • view
Thank you for that information, I did not realize that. However, it would seem advisable to charge him under state law so that Trump cannot pardon him, if that can be done.
jun 16, 2025, 5:02 pm • 4 1 • view
Shouldn't it be a federal charge?
jun 16, 2025, 2:13 pm • 2 0 • view
You want Trump to pardon him? No, keep it state charges.
jun 16, 2025, 2:15 pm • 2 0 • view
I think it should be both. Federal charges, they can use the death penalty. If Trump pardons him, he's still liable for state charges.
jun 16, 2025, 2:19 pm • 0 0 • view
What would qualify it for federal?
jun 16, 2025, 2:37 pm • 0 0 • view
There's a code (18U.S.C. 351) that makes it a federal offense to kidnap or kill for all employees of government
jun 16, 2025, 3:31 pm • 2 0 • view
Interesting. Thank you.
jun 16, 2025, 10:47 pm • 0 0 • view
You trust Pam Bondi would prosecute someone who murders democratic politicians? You think making his crime pardonable by Trump is a good idea? No, it should not be a federal charge.
jun 16, 2025, 2:15 pm • 8 0 • view
I say keep the state charges too, in case Trump pardons him, he's still liable in state courts
jun 16, 2025, 2:18 pm • 3 0 • view
Like Derek Chauvin, Minnesota has life in prison, which will keep him from killing anyone else. No need to give the feds even a piece of this. They are complicit in what happened.
jun 16, 2025, 2:23 pm • 5 0 • view
What would the purpose of federal charges be? It’s not like going to federal prison is worse than going to state prison. Quite the opposite.
jun 16, 2025, 2:21 pm • 1 0 • view
Federal charges means more time and possibly the death penalty
jun 16, 2025, 3:28 pm • 0 0 • view
Not remotely accurate.
jun 16, 2025, 4:20 pm • 0 0 • view
jun 16, 2025, 5:12 pm • 0 0 • view
I don’t care what AI tells you, you don’t seem to understand the basic concepts involved. You don’t even know what the charges will be.
jun 16, 2025, 6:06 pm • 1 0 • view
And it's not just A.I., it's on the DOJ website
jun 16, 2025, 7:50 pm • 0 0 • view
I know that he is now charged with state and federal charges
jun 16, 2025, 7:48 pm • 0 0 • view
Thank you for explaining this and injecting reason and legal perspective into what could become incendiary reactions based on misinterpretation of the charges.
jun 16, 2025, 8:17 pm • 0 0 • view
Thank you for posting correct info rather than so many people who don’t what know what they are talking about.
jun 16, 2025, 4:41 pm • 1 1 • view
This is the type of PSA I come here for, thanks!
jun 16, 2025, 4:35 pm • 0 0 • view
Thanks for clarifying that. Because he should be given the electric chair!
jun 16, 2025, 4:02 pm • 0 0 • view
Ah yes , forgot about what you guys call American Exceptionalism
jun 16, 2025, 3:50 pm • 0 0 • view
What isn’t this considered a terrorist attack since it’s politically motivated?
jun 16, 2025, 4:04 pm • 2 0 • view
You don’t want federal charges. tRump will pardon.
jun 16, 2025, 8:58 pm • 1 0 • view
Someone there (AG?) said they have to have a grand jury indictment, which will be sought, to get to first-degree.
jun 16, 2025, 4:03 pm • 2 1 • view
For deliberate murder? Of a public official? That just doesn't sound right.
jun 16, 2025, 4:00 pm • 1 0 • view
I did wonder about that, thanks for the information.
jun 16, 2025, 8:28 pm • 0 0 • view
First degree, he planned it
jun 16, 2025, 3:09 pm • 1 0 • view
Thank you for explaining that to us. Will it stay a state crime? Is there any chance at all of the federal government taking it?
jun 16, 2025, 3:06 pm • 2 0 • view
Thank you.
jun 16, 2025, 3:14 pm • 1 0 • view
Thanks Joyce🙏
jun 16, 2025, 2:29 pm • 1 0 • view
Can you explain why 2nd degree? This took forethought, planning, & intent? We have a long ways to go on these cases Thanks for your highly valued legal opinion! It helps!
jun 16, 2025, 5:23 pm • 2 0 • view
Explanation is here: bsky.app/profile/rend...
jun 16, 2025, 6:29 pm • 2 1 • view
Makes sense. Saw this after commented Thanks!
jun 16, 2025, 9:30 pm • 1 0 • view
Thank you for explaining that.
jun 16, 2025, 3:47 pm • 0 0 • view
Plus they're looking at how to upgrade the charge but they needed a charge to jail him with now.
jun 16, 2025, 3:57 pm • 1 0 • view
Thanks for letting us know. I have a question for you. How can he be charged with murder by both the state and the feds?
jun 16, 2025, 9:38 pm • 0 0 • view
He can. See Derek Chauvin.
jun 16, 2025, 10:28 pm • 1 0 • view
www.minnpost.com/fact-briefs/...
jun 16, 2025, 10:30 pm • 0 0 • view
What can we expect from a state that elected Jessie Ventura as their Governor
jun 16, 2025, 2:01 pm • 1 0 • view
Ventura was a popular and effective governor. California elected two actors as governor, and both got pretty high marks.
jun 16, 2025, 2:04 pm • 11 0 • view
First Degree murder charges require a grand jury. But keep jumping to conclusions dumbass.
jun 16, 2025, 2:16 pm • 4 0 • view
You are funny, thank you for the laugh....
jun 16, 2025, 2:22 pm • 0 0 • view
Isn't this a domestic terrorist attack? Anyway Bondi might give him a medal instead of LWP
jun 16, 2025, 3:23 pm • 2 0 • view
Ah, i did wonder...
jun 16, 2025, 6:23 pm • 0 0 • view
Thank you for the clarification.
jun 17, 2025, 2:18 am • 1 0 • view
Ok. But that hit list sure looks like premediatated murder to me.
jun 16, 2025, 2:08 pm • 39 3 • view
It will look that way to the grand jury as well.
jun 16, 2025, 5:32 pm • 1 0 • view
He apparently went to other's houses but they were not home at the time.
jun 16, 2025, 5:35 pm • 0 0 • view
It is premeditated. People are just saying it requires an indictment. If charges are laid down for felonies in most states by the prosecutor, a defendant still has a right to have it presented to a grand jury if he wants to. It’s really a difference that doesn’t mean anything for most part.
jun 16, 2025, 2:33 pm • 2 0 • view
Under Minnesota law, murder two is the highest he can be charged with at the time of arrest. Now it will go to a grand jury, where it will no doubt be increased to murder one with possible other charges being added.
jun 16, 2025, 2:28 pm • 103 11 • view
Right, @qasimrashid.com explained this early yesterday. Calmed me down!
jun 17, 2025, 3:42 pm • 2 0 • view
Thanks for the follow, Kathy. Followed you back. 🦋
jun 17, 2025, 4:49 pm • 2 0 • view
Yes, this is standard procedure. He will be charged with 1st Degree.
jun 16, 2025, 3:32 pm • 9 0 • view
Thank you so much for that explanation.
jun 16, 2025, 2:30 pm • 23 0 • view
Thanks for clearing that up. 😎
jun 16, 2025, 2:58 pm • 2 0 • view
I garrentte the list of charges that will be filed is going to be a book of charges.
jun 16, 2025, 3:43 pm • 0 0 • view
Democrat murder list.
jun 16, 2025, 2:28 pm • 1 0 • view
Luigi is unsurprised.
jun 16, 2025, 5:43 pm • 1 0 • view
Anyone think he was planning a mass shooting at a No Kings March? He had high powered rifles
jun 16, 2025, 4:35 pm • 0 0 • view
Thank you.
jun 16, 2025, 4:17 pm • 0 0 • view
Thanks for that clarification on this matter there are a lot of people questioning it
jun 16, 2025, 3:33 pm • 2 0 • view
What’s super sad is there’s attorneys on this platform that know this but still choose to stoke division ✌️
jun 16, 2025, 4:21 pm • 0 0 • view
Thank you for clarifying/explaining.
jun 16, 2025, 3:26 pm • 2 0 • view
Public hanging would be appropriate
jun 16, 2025, 2:42 pm • 1 0 • view
This is where Common Law is simpler.
jun 16, 2025, 2:03 pm • 1 0 • view
It seems that 609.185(a)(1) or (a)(7) would apply, no? Premeditation and intent were there and it was meant to further terrorism.
jun 16, 2025, 4:51 pm • 1 0 • view
1st degree pre-meditated murder all the way. The guy had a damn LIST!!
jun 16, 2025, 2:26 pm • 2 0 • view
Under Minnesota law, murder two is the highest he can be charged with at the time of arrest. Now it will go to a grand jury, where it will no doubt be increased to murder one with possible other charges being added. All state crimes w/ no option for federal pardon.
jun 16, 2025, 2:34 pm • 2 0 • view
it will take a Grand Jury to charge first-degree. I have no doubt one will be convened.
jun 16, 2025, 3:57 pm • 4 0 • view
EXPELL Mike Lee @captmarkkelly.bsky.social @gallego.senate.gov @schiff.senate.gov @sanders.senate.gov @wyden.senate.gov @vanhollen.senate.gov @whitehouse.senate.gov Expell Mike Lee
jun 16, 2025, 4:49 pm • 7 2 • view
Expel Mike Lee.
jun 17, 2025, 5:49 am • 0 0 • view
What I heard locally is they could charge him with this NOW without a grand jury. That they plan to eventually go for 1st degree charges.
jun 16, 2025, 11:01 pm • 0 0 • view
I’m just glad they’re doing state charges because orange Mussolini can’t pardon those
jun 17, 2025, 2:43 am • 1 0 • view
Good to know.
jun 16, 2025, 2:41 pm • 2 0 • view
Hi Joyce, so is there a statue that disallows an inmate to have a big, burly sexual deviant as his cellmate? Just askin'
jun 16, 2025, 8:09 pm • 0 0 • view
As long as they are not Federal charges. No Trump pardons and jobs in the White House for this MAGA madman.
jun 16, 2025, 2:13 pm • 5 0 • view
There will be federal charges which may go first but there will be a state trial so even if Trump decided to pardon the state charges will stand
jun 17, 2025, 4:56 am • 0 0 • view
MAGA America = Dead Dems This is the result of the Christian Reich and dark money in our politics. How do you get rid of this enemy thinking? Do away with Citizens United. No more dark money in politics
jun 16, 2025, 2:50 pm • 4 0 • view
Come on, Joice, this IS odd! The best that can be said is that it's not odd for Minnesota... (the more you learn 🙄)
jun 16, 2025, 6:17 pm • 0 0 • view
Federal charges include first degree murder, correct?
jun 16, 2025, 6:09 pm • 0 0 • view
Hey Joyce, why is it that that is the highest charge and not permissible in Minnesota for first-degree murder?
jun 16, 2025, 2:07 pm • 6 0 • view
Minnesota law requires a grand jury indictment for a first degree murder charge. Once they get that, the charges will be upgraded.
jun 16, 2025, 2:10 pm • 44 3 • view
Thank you!! I was really puzzled.
jun 16, 2025, 2:14 pm • 5 0 • view
Thank you for explaining!
jun 16, 2025, 3:03 pm • 1 0 • view
Ah thank you for explaining! Can we assume grand jury indictment will be forth coming then? It's just part of the process?
jun 16, 2025, 4:01 pm • 2 0 • view
A grand jury needs to be seated and evidence presented. The standard is not very high, so i would expect an indictment but won't guess at a timeline. Since he is arrested and charged with 2 murders and 2 attempted murders (at least), I wouldnt think they have to rush an indictment.
jun 16, 2025, 4:07 pm • 0 0 • view
Thank you for explaining that.
jun 16, 2025, 2:14 pm • 5 0 • view
Phew. I thought so, but it does seem odd.
jun 16, 2025, 2:12 pm • 1 0 • view
Assassination is premeditated murder. Shouldn't that be a 1st degree charge. Where are the terrorist charges? Oh thats right Kash Patal probably hired the gunman...
jun 16, 2025, 1:58 pm • 1 0 • view
It's the highest charge we can do in MN before it goes before a grand jury. The charge will be changed/increased at that point.
jun 16, 2025, 2:06 pm • 6 0 • view
Thank you for the clarification.
jun 16, 2025, 2:13 pm • 4 0 • view
I hate that I had this thought, but I hope they keep it in state court so Trump can't pardon him.
jun 16, 2025, 2:44 pm • 2 0 • view
Joyce, could this result in the feds taking over the case in search of a higher charge. Worried because that opens the door for a federal pardon and would hate to see THAT happen.
jun 16, 2025, 2:19 pm • 5 0 • view
Under Minnesota law, murder two is the highest he can be charged with at the time of arrest. Now it will go to a grand jury, where it will no doubt be increased to murder one with possible other charges being added. All state crimes w/ no option for federal pardon.
jun 16, 2025, 2:30 pm • 15 4 • view
They had better charge his wife, and any business partners he has.
jun 16, 2025, 2:45 pm • 3 0 • view
Agreed. What kind of excuse could she come up with for driving around with their passports, weapons, and a boatload of cash?
jun 16, 2025, 2:47 pm • 5 0 • view
I'm thinking they should see if a terrorism charge will stick.
jun 16, 2025, 4:07 pm • 2 0 • view
Thank you, Joyce for reassuring all of us
jun 16, 2025, 4:30 pm • 1 0 • view
Hopefully he will face state charges. I only trust the feds to drop the whole thing in a year or so when it's no longer an immediate topic of discussion.
jun 16, 2025, 5:13 pm • 0 0 • view
I want a death penalty enhancement for his slaughtering their dog, too. That was total commitment to his cop theme.
jun 16, 2025, 7:00 pm • 3 0 • view
Premeditated, cold blooded, murder, and only a second degree charge is a heartbreak. Will it limit his time in prison?
jun 16, 2025, 2:30 pm • 2 0 • view
Under Minnesota law, murder two is the highest he can be charged with at the time of arrest. Now it will go to a grand jury, where it will no doubt be increased to murder one with possible other charges being added. All state crimes w/ no option for federal pardon.
jun 16, 2025, 2:35 pm • 8 0 • view
Thanks for the info. Glad it's state so trump can't pardon him.
jun 16, 2025, 2:53 pm • 1 0 • view
thanks, I didn't read that, a relief to know
jun 16, 2025, 2:37 pm • 3 0 • view
Thanks for the follow, Elle. Followed you back. 🦋
jun 16, 2025, 2:42 pm • 2 0 • view
thank you!
jun 16, 2025, 2:43 pm • 2 0 • view