Our government shouldn't be able to consign people to conditions in a foreign country that would be constitutional violations, and criminal too, here.
Our government shouldn't be able to consign people to conditions in a foreign country that would be constitutional violations, and criminal too, here.
This is what puzzles me: How can this be constitutional? How can courts allow this, and under what justification? It boggles the mind.
You seem to be having a hard time grasping that a crime syndicate has taken over the US government.
Yes, that does seem to be the case. But damn, they bought a lot of judges, didn't they?
Or USA judges have no back spine.
More alarming is that they ARE doing it. Our government is evil.
Shouldn't, but since Republicans got away with all of their crimes during the 4 years of a Democratic administration, why not go all in now that Republicans are in control of all three branches? The Biden Administration rolled out the red carpet to fascism -- an abject failure of responsibility.
A leader is morally responsible for the actions done by others at their command. They can often wiggle out of short term legal repercussions but things don't turn out well for evil dictators over the long term.
Joyce, I admire your common sense and the grasp of the US laws. The problem is, "the people" have elected a dullard who disrespects and flouts the US Constitution with every breath he takes!
Like we've been doing under every president since 2001 in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba?
Why hasn’t international police shown up to arrest these criminals and incarcerate them.? What’s the point where they will? What is the bridge too far?
Yet, the dementia has him believing he can win a Nobel Peace Prize. Just because President Obama has one.
Seeing how corrupt western moral values are, I wouldn't be too surprised by trump winning it.
Absolutely. Human rights shouldn't stop at the border. If a condition would violate constitutional or criminal law here, outsourcing it elsewhere doesn't make it justifiable it makes it a deliberate evasion of responsibility.
The creep of Gitmo is undefeated.
I 100% agree
And our people shouldn't want that for ANYONE.
John Robert's and his five other MAGAts allowed this
Deeply troubling is this trump/ Tom Homan/ Stephen Miller cadre is not JUST violating the constitution. They are deliberately intentionally trying to be cruel and inflict pain - both physical and emotional. We sense there is enjoyment on their part to see innocent people suffer.
Wait the concentration camp that just opened in Fl doesn't meet those requirements. So where is the " here"
That does sound moral and logical, perhaps we can make it explicitly illegal to boot?
Wouldn't that be considered cruel and unusual punishment?
Considering that all comments here might possibly help, I’m gonna chime in and agree! As a citizen. As to the legal aspects, I take my 87 year old retired attorney dad’s advice. “When you’re in trouble, get a lawyer!” So I thank you. BTW: It was very nice to see you with Mr Elias!
What's the use of having friendly foreign governments if you can't use them to break the law in your own country?
The conditions in the US concentration camps aren't constitutional either.
Ah, you mean like what they're doing in Florida?
Soon enough the 6 Supreme Traitors will announce those conditions are constitutional and not criminal here!
The MOST CORRUPT COURT in the land doesn’t care about the rule of law or the constitution. It’s just a FIGMENT of everyone imagination apparently.
Agreed, and I would include CIA and their associates in that, Counselor. But “shouldn’t be able” infers they presently are able, and I can’t accept that, either. There must be consequences for human rights violations.
Or in Florida
We were supposed to be a beacon of human rights, not a global trafficker in suffering. If we still believe in the values etched into our founding documents—liberty, due process, equal protection—then we cannot allow our government to hide behind the pretense of “foreign policy” to commit these acts.
You watch too many Hollywood movies. USA is the only country that has dropped nuclear bombs on civilians. And that was just the start.
Now tell us something we don't already know.............
Joyce, time to be REAL!... America no longer has a Government!... It's a Nazi Fascist Regime being run by the MOST INEPT/RACIST/UGLY Creatures in this country!!...
Some of us have been saying this for 30 years. Turns out the left was right, all along.
Agree deporting people to countries that they are not from could mean a death penalty for some!
Agreed. So what do you suggest? After all , you are a former federal prosecutor. I'm all ears bc I give up
It's only Common sense, I would think, that if one is prohibited from mistreating someone, that prohibition would extend to farming it out to others. We are not allowed to murder someone (except Trump in the middle of Time Square) nor can we hire someone else to do the deed for us.
Agreed 👍
Isn't the violation of crossing the border either a fine, up to 1 year in prison, deportation, or a combination of those? Who's going to keep track of the 1 year in prison(if anyone)?
The conditions here are inhumane. I can’t imagine what it’s like in a foreign country.
We also shouldn't be human trafficking
💯
Sending them to a foreign nation would be clearly cruel and unusual punishment in DIRECT violation of the 8th amendment. IF we had a SCOTUS that has actually read the Constitution.
Our government shouldn't be able to jail anyone outside of the US. I never dreamed it possible until now.
Uhm guantanamo bay ring any bells?
Technically it is in US-owned Cuba.
Cruel and unusual
100 💯 agree + Conditions here in the USA in holding areas and the Florida concentration camp are constitutional violations, too, I believe
The entire third country thing is complete garbage. The US should not be in the kidnapping and human trafficking business. The US should not be in the torture and terrorism business. This is the most un-American administration in the history of the country.
The so called supreme court would have to give a shit! Next it will be LGBTQ and then on to the catholics!
Not the Catholics, Steve. White Christians can stay. But the unhoused? Queer people? Black and African American communities? Miller’s “vision” only makes room for people who look like him— bald, white, and soulless. #AbolishICE #WhiteChristianNationalism #WeWillNotBeErased
I agree that LGBTQ+ people will be next, but on to the Catholics? All six of the conservative SCOTUS justices are Catholic.
Except what constitution? Have not seen hide nor hair in a while now….
Well, they shouldn't be able to do that here, either, but . . .
No they shouldn’t, yet here we are.
Apparently, the GOP CRIMINAL ENTERPRISE can commit unlimited CRIME with no consequences. At best, after significant delay after the crime, the courts say "you never should have done that and you should not do it again. Bad! Bad! Bad!" Where are the real consequences for GOP CRIME?
They surely should not be, but tell that to today's Republican Supremes. 💔
and legally they can't. but that would require a law abiding administration. we have a criminal regime headed by a dementia riddled thug
Orale Resisters General Strike Aug 12 spectrumnews1.com/ca/southern-... #USDemocracy #50501SoCal #GeneralStrike
If we dont impeach Trump now, who will we ever impeach and for what?
I think impeachment has been proven to be useless, if those who are impeached have no shame.
TACO
Impeachment now is out of the question. Republicans, Trumpicans, MAGAts control all of Congress. They will never allow impeachment or even an investigation. Asking for impeachment is a waste of time. We have to face reality.
Reality means reseating Congress next year, impeaching AND removing Trump from all offices. 14th Amendment, Sec3 If we no longer have the U.S. Constitution in observance, we are a mere gaggle of states. Europish. But what we have is a complicit Congress and an oathless imposter as President.
Better start calling your republican congressional representatives.
Omg, I don’t know how much more I can take off this corrupt, self serving administration.You know Trump is going to pardon everyone,I mean everyone. Nothing will be done to hold these horrible people accountable.Every day I scream we need to do something, but what?Thankfully I live in a blue state.
I think this might be in that ever-growing category of things that weren't made explicitly illegal because nobody tried to do them before.
How does "self-deportation" even work? TPL friend has been here so long dsnt have valid passport or papers, just a US greencard for work along w state driver's lic. Even if had air$, can they get on plane for Africa w/out being detained? Enter Uganda w/out current ID? It's all excuse to imprison...
Yet jnlists and admin toss around the term "self-deportation" as desired dT policy outcome as if it actually exists or functions. An EG how Media continues to buy & repeat Admin / dT lies + ops language without critical thinking (or reporting) any factual "How?!" these policies (can't) work.
Then again, with this tent city in Florida we have lost some moral high ground.
Sending people back home is consigning?
The Eighth Amendment to the United States Constitution or the Bill of Rights protects against imposing excessive bail, excessive fines, or cruel and unusual punishments. It never mentions not applicable to undocumented aliens!🙄
“shouldn’t”
If only we had some sort of final arbiter of objective lawfulness. What about Grok? (yes, that would be considered gallows humor)
You must be referring to the days when the USA was a democracy.
That would require the USA to have principles and care about international law.
That is not going to stop until Americans march on the capital and the White House and remove the law breakers.
You've not been following the Alligator Auschwitz reveals, the conditions there violate prison standards as do other ICE detention facilities although not as egregiously as a cages in tents in the middle of a swamp in summer.
Felon in Charge! Why???
Completely serious question, @joycewhitevance.bsky.social : If SCOTUS is okay with that, why wouldn't it be okay with "death flights," a la Pinochet or Videla?
They would be fine with it. Heritage Foundation, federalist society, other groups want to do away with the constitution, with individual rights, with equality. Most gop judicial appointments were recommended by those groups. Project 2025 in action.
It kinda seems like it. The Eighth Amendment and Fifth Amendment due process requirements are apparently no impediment.
So what are you going to do about it?
You’d think not and yet here we are, MAGA’t USA..
Or in this Country either.
And guess what; those conditions are true here as well.
In a foreign country? Puh-lease! It's being done in your walls
How about they shouldn’t be able to put people in any prison, let alone a foreign prison, for life just for entering our country illegally.
It is a civil offense is it not???
And they shouldn't be able to send them there before an adequate hearing with an attorney where the government actually has to satisfactorily prove the allegations.
Add to that: prisons shouldn’t profit from incarceration
Ready to admit the United States is no longer a democratic Constitutional government but a fascistic regime?
A crime syndicate has taken over the US government.
Exactly.
Lots of things shouldn't happen. Who's going to stop them? White America has been violating people since its design by the founding fathers. We won't make any progress until we accept that fact, and work to address what it means. Not sure when we'll have that chance. Project 2025 in full effect
I truly don’t understand the math that says “sending someone to a country that is basically in a civil war, that you have no ties to… nag, that’s not cruel or unusual punishment.”
Without wringing our hands about potential futures, we should, when the wind inevitably blows a different direction, immediately release these people to any foreign court who wants to try them for these crimes.
Libya war torn refugee crisis and yet we are sending people there?…..
This really should be common sense/common decency.
They won't and why would that? Considering they opened alligator alley, which is those same conditions, and that has not been called illegal right here in the US.
Look at you, acting like you know better than 6 SCOTUS Justices!!!😳🤷♂️
Choice is clear #VA75 secure.actblue.com/donate/hod75...
Our government shouldn’t let felonious rapist be president and pick a rogues’p gallery of crooks posing as a cabinet.
If a government imprisons someone that government should be responsible for the care, feeding and rights of that person and should be subject to review. They should not be able to turn that person over to a 3rd party. For profit private prisons should be illegal! And rendition to foreign ones too!
Thank you, Joyce. Completely agree.
Dachau
I visited the Dachau Concentration Camp Memorial Site in Germany. It's a reminder about what the prisoners went through so history doesn't repeat itself. Well, Facism is here!!🤬 It's the only concentration camp to be functional during the entire 12 years reign of the Nazi party from 1933 to 1945.
It's impossible to avoid that comparison
If you think Trump and his Vampire side kick Miller didn't pick countries to sell the people they captured that have open slave trade markets you are delusional. Most likely they have a backdoor payment system using Trumps $hitcoin per head delivered.
The next would-be Adolph Eichmann: Stevie Miller. I would say “dripping with irony” except it leaves me absolutely speechless.
-New laws need to be enacted to specifically require unannounced inspections of overseas private or government owned penal facilities by Congressional members and their staff. Violations of this access requirement is grounds for contract termination and return of all prisoners. .,.
They’re not even letting congressional members to go into the “facilities” (concentration camps) in the U.S.!
Everything the trump admin is doing without due process to people they don’t like the look of are crimes against humanity. We now live in a fascist country.
Yet that is exactly what he's doing and no-one is stopping him! Judges have tried, Congress is silent and he does as he pleases.
Yeah, well. Shouldn't.
We should not be engaging in human trafficking. Full stop.
bsky.app/profile/figh...
#CrimesAgainstHumanity
There’s also NORMALLY a procedure for third party recipient countries. This isn’t it.
They aren’t supposed to be. That’s why extradition processes exist. That’s why normally nonviolent criminals being deported usually serve their terms here beforehand so they don’t serve a sentence for embezzlement, say, in a prison frequently cited by Amnesty International. But, 🇺🇸 isn’t itself. Atm.
We must do better
Or imprison immigration violators in a Florida prison where human rights are being ignored.
They're doing it right now in your country in Florida.
You’d think that would just be a given, but not with this clown show of an administration. Uncivilized cruelty. We should be better than this.
Let’s back that timeline up a bit. Hold the line. Our government shouldn’t be able to kidnap people.
Stateless people. Our country's current regime has taken us to the darkest of moments.
People who care about what's "legal" should know that it's ILLEGAL to deny any person due process. It's ILLEGAL to inflict cruel and unusual punishment. And using mosquitoes and alligators as enforcement officers most certainly qualifies as "Cruel and unusual punishment."
And yet they are, as nobody is stopping them, as staying in power is a legislator’s top priority. Maybe 🤔 only ending gerrymandering, cutting the pay & benefits of legislators, and/or term limits are the only ways to rid these leeches of their obsession.
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
Auschwitz wasn't in Germany.
‼️When you see a post that makes you feel negative thoughts or emotions like ANGER, FEAR, HATRED... PLEASE SAY 3 WORDS: "JESUS SAVE US." The DEVIL hates it. It TORTURES SATAN & his LEGIONS OF DEMONS into an AGONIZING PAIN even if only one person says the words "JESUS SAVE US."
What ever happened to cruel and unusual punishment? It’s certainly cruel and when did sending someone to another country for incarceration become usual?
Yeah we know but what are you going to do about it
WE people fund legal teams, file mandamus case against Congress. I’m no lawyer but this is a sound legal basis for US citizens to fight miscarriages of justice created by unethical rogues overturning constitutional law and precedents, violating their oaths of office; all unchecked by GOP Congress.
Rogue supreme court justices are overly confident of their judicial immunity; Congress has a Constitutional MANDATE to regulate our Supreme Court; basically guarantee ethical standards/conduct. Congress has immunity for legislative acts, NOT for FAILURE to perform mandatory constitutional duties!
The key is WE fight this stalemate created by Mitch McConnell stacking our Supreme Court with politically motivated unethical lackeys. CONGRESS has a constitutional mandate to regulate SCOTUS. All AMERICANS ARE HARMED BY UNETHICAL INDIVIDUALS TOSSING PRECEDENTS ASIDE TO MAKE WAY FOR AUTOCRACY.
Unprecedented times require unprecedented measures— Basis for Class action lawsuit: Congress has a MANDATORY constitutional duty under Article III to REGULATE our Supreme Court. All citizens are harmed when our Supreme Court operates without ethical constraints overturns established precedents.
Scotus says they can.
Unfortunately, the fascists on the Supreme Court outnumber the Justices who actually follow the Constitution.
Free Andry
Seems the eighth amendment has something to say about that
How do we stop it
I like to invoke the hitman principle. If it's illegal to shoot someone, it's automatically illegal to hire a hitman to shoot someone for you. Same with abusive prisons. If it is illegal to abuse your prisoner, it is illegal to pay someone else to abuse your prisoner.
You can if your lawyer knows the judge.
govt: “okay, we’ll just do it here instead!”
Hell, our government shouldn't be able to consign people to a foreign country as a matter of political expediency. Although, considering the conditions detainees face in places like Alligator Alcatraz, a foreign country, even a third world one, might be an improvement. Which should be all needed
to be said about the conditions of our latest addition to the American penal system. If the American people aren't embarrassed by this ridiculous demonstration of misplaced "justice", they sure as hell ought to be. We aren't known for how depraved we can treat people. But how fairly; how justly.
Exactly
That’s the point. Outsourcing cruelty lets the U.S. break its own laws without ever touching them. It’s not oversight — it’s design. Power doesn’t get its hands dirty. It hires subcontractors. 📜 dailyliesreport.substack.com/p/the-powell...
Why are people being put in prisons in foreign countries instead of deporting them back to the country they came from?? Oh ok, its kidnapping and human trafficking…
It’s beyond cruel
I consider sending ppl not receiving Due Process to a foreign country a death penalty. How long will those men be in CECOT? What % get out? Only a judge in the US has the right to give a death sentence. Deporting those men to CECOT by some ICE idiot declaring a "death sentence" I see as illegal.
Is it good news that we are consigning people to similar conditions in this country instead?
NO. It’s very very bad news.
Came here to say that. Reports from incarceration facilities here are just abhorrent.
Same thought as well.
or send them to places like Sudan which US State Dept has long had travel advisories for US citizens traveling there.
Yet here we are with the blessing of the US Supreme Court fck me.
People in prisons are treated better than in detention centers & concentration camps.
It seems so obvious
Except to the people in a cult.
You would think but our courts have been corrupted by T-RR appoinments. We are all at risk. Unless we stand up in the millions. We have the power to change this by doing general NO WORK strikes. Being afraid should no longer be an option. Don't let fear freeze you. Let anger propel you to action.
If we ever get control, NO MORE GARLANDS! EVER!
8th Amendment
Nor create those constitutional violations in a place here.
nor create those constitutional violations in a place here.
Great obvious statement however, we're really going to need some direction and advice on how to stop it. Any thoughts? Or just hot takes? Please help.
Yet, the real criminals are in the WH MAGA is pure evil. The Constitutionally disqualified, illegitimate, corrupt, Russian asset, political thief, criminal felon and his cronies and enablers all need to go now! #MAGATerrorists #TrumpMustGoNow
Sad
Though the conditions in Florida sounds like that. And let all of us stop using Trump's name for his unconstitutional violation.
How can we save these people? Now ICE is planning to deport captives within 6 hours of detainment to 3rd countries. So many people will disappear without a trace, and we won't ever be able to find them.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVKE...
Legally they cannot. They have simply decided (with the supreme court's blessings) that laws no longer apply if they decide they do not. Funny how the system only works when everyone agrees to let it, and falls apart instantly when that agreement is considered a nuisance.
It should be noted that the Republican party has worked for decades to make this inevitable, degrading both the powers of the other branches as well as public trust in all branches. Democrats were complacent, thinking the guardrails would always exist. 'journalism' was/is complicit in many ways.
They have tossed the Constitution to the winds, both Trump and Roberts.
I am still trying to understand how a civil infraction of being undocumented parlays into a kidnapping and detention into a concentration camp.
Racism and fascism
Sounds like they need to be indicted.
Everyone involved in this farce should be.
ICE Can Detain Based on ‘Physical Appearance’ #maga #fafo #project2025 #trump #foryou #ice youtube.com/shorts/ouUTg...
As Jen Psaki noted, it sure sounds like racial profiling.
And now #ice vehicle runs through the Protesters #maga #project2025 #dictatorship #trump #foryou youtube.com/shorts/4nL03...
It's obvious who the real criminals are.
Here's how. Trump, MAGAts, Stephen Miller want a WHITE COUNTRY. They are starting the "cleansing" with Brown people because forcing immigrants out is an idea Republicans/MAGA approve of. And most of them think any Brown person is an immigrant. Trump/GOP have ALL the power now & they're using it.
Yes. The GOP is dying off. It's their "last gasp", and they know it. scitechdaily.com/a-mortality-...
Not fast enough to save us.
Tell those third party voters. And those "purity" voters. And voters who stayed home. edition.cnn.com/2024/10/23/p...
All the Progressives who wanted to SEND A MESSAGE. Well we got your message and it is ugly.
bsky.app/profile/atru...
Joyce, it's absolutely horrifying and tragic that anyone actually has to say that.
Donald Trump, Republicans and the Supreme Court killed our government, that's why it's allowed.
Correct,Trump and MAGA are the least American administration👍
No one can stop President Miller.
While Trump dithers his way into senility, He makes a very handy target for the People. Meanwhile, behind the scenes works his White Christian Nationalist administrators ICE, tariffs, bans,... its all THEM ! Every one of these people are complicit Their method? Ignore- 'We the People' Project 2025
Exactly. So where are the constitutional lawyers to fight this??? Citizens are being accidentally or otherwise moved around as well!!
Um, it's happening while we're here. But for some reason, when Rosie's citizenship is illegally threatened, we lose our damn minds and forget about everyone else. We do this every damn distraction that comes our way. Ridiculous.
It’s Because We have a Corrupt A/F SCOTUS..!!! We all expected this type of B.S. from a 34 count CONVICTED FELON!! No, One thought SCOTUS would have just rolled over to be Cheetolini’s Bitches on demand.
Of course it shouldn't, but then... Trump.
Sadly SCOTUS is so corrupt they’ve thrown out the constitution.
But he does
So what should Americans do about the same thing happening here? Or is Florida considered a foreign country now?
I can’t believe the laws that will need to be passed to undo the damage done under Trump/MAGA.
no problem we'll have those conditions here (florida) soon enough
8th Ammendment
Unless I’m mistaken, isn’t being here undocumented a civil offence, not criminal? (With the caveat that repeating attempts is criminal)
UNCAT UN Convention Against Torture US Signed and Ratified. US shouldn’t be able to? US cannot.
But they are doing it right?
Hypocrisy! Isn't this guy already "deported"? Why is an actual criminal getting extradited and given due process? What the fuck is wrong with you people? Ecuador's top drug lord agrees to U.S. extradition after being captured Source: CBS News share.newsbreak.com/e0jc90wt
Hell, NO!!!!!
Especially people who haven’t been convicted of any crime.
Ah, well they've got round that Joyce by making conditions at home worse that they are abroad. That way that comparison can't be made. The UN would have a nightmare if they saw Alligator Auschwitz.
What government?
It seems so very basic and yet here we are
It should be clear by now that Trump doesn't give a flying F about the Constitution or our judicial system. He has surrounded himself with folks that carry out his orders and, like the Justice stated... "He has the US Supreme Court on speed dial." What we need are consequences. That's the key.
Have you mentioned that to SCOTUS? It isn’t obvious that institution will care about that point anymore.
📢 Keep Speaking Out‼️ It works. 📞Making calls to LOCAL government officials can be very effective:
It’s W-R-O-N-G on all levels!
bsky.app/profile/blue...
What constitution, though? Trump and the US Supreme Court, along with American citizens who have chosen not to defend it, have rendered it no better than toilet paper.
This is human trafficking not deportation - correct Joyce?
Joyce, the constitution is no longer being adhered to. Have you missed something. Scotus said he can send people without a hearing or trial to a FOREIGN PRISON! Sooooo that ship has sailed.
Yes Joyce, but that assumes the Constitution still holds. Does it? And who’s going to enforce that?
🤬🤬🤬
Prof, we’re way beyond the era in which those sort of moral arguments were persuasive.
The Extreme Court seems to forget this.
By whom exactly?