We can’t solve our problems if we ignore basic logic like “you have two options, choose the better of the two”. People are free to do what they want, but there are consequences. We can’t pamper Trump voters or non-voters so they feel absolve from the consequences of their actions. Choose better.
Who picks what the two options are? We've seen that the Dems don't let voters pick a nominee. Then once the nominee is picked, they try to court "moderate Republicans," telling everyone to their left to fuck off. The ruling class wants right wing outcomes. They get those outcomes with both options.
Agreed that the clear lesson is that there must be a robust and fair primary process.
And until that happens, why should we vote for the party that doesn't care what the voters want?
You say, "choose better," but when the choice we're offered is simply which condiments are going on our shit sandwich, there's not a good choice to be made.
Great. When there's actually a robust and fair primary process, then you can complain about people voting third party. Don't hold your breath.
And since Democrats are committed to not providing a fair primary process, as evidenced by their own argument in court that they’re a private organization and therefore have the right to rig their own primary, and the fact that they just canceled their last one, what then?
He's refusing to engage with the core point I made above as well, which is that it's the ruling class, not the voters, which dictate not only who our candidates are, but also the platform they run on and the policies that get implemented.
If Democrats are slowly figuring out now that elections are a part of democracy, why would anyone take them seriously to lead us?
Your other option is the Cult of Trump.
To elaborate: Our choices are the Cult of Trump, or the DNC cult that gave rise to Trump. This was clear to many of us in 2020 when they rigged the primary to install right winger Joe Biden. Our choices were to elect Trump in 2020, or watch Biden spend 4 years making sure Trump got elected in 2024.
Retrospectively we can look to 2008 when Obama ran on big promises, but by mid-2009 it was clear those promises were never going to be kept. Kinda like Joe in 2020, only by then we had seen that pattern before. So Obama and Biden's refusal to deliver for the people instead delivered us Trump.
To refuse to recognize that the Democrats serve only to blunt any popular movements for change and instead usher in more right wingers is to be willfully and dangerously ignorant.
Cult of Trump? Democrats have confirmed every member of Trump’s cabinet. Every single one. Cult of Trump? Buddy, you’re in it.
Btw I voted for Harris, so not trying to defend anyone's voting choices here
I see we disagree. Well as I said above, the need to build a coalition requires accepting some disagreement. You can keep fighting with potential allies if you see fit. But from my POV it's not helping those of us who want to fight the present authoritarian threat
I worry about us making the same mistake again. I guarantee that the next Democratic nominee in 2028 won’t be perfect. They will have areas of valid criticism. I excuse that to pale in comparison to the fascism the Trump’s cult offers. How can we avoid making the same mistake if voters don’t learn?
I teach. I haven't seen many people, even students, even loved ones, change their mind when someone points out they are wrong. But what works is listening, offering resources and info, reframing their concerns, and positive reinforcement when they show signs of changing.
I want to believe that would work, but this was a second Trump victory. I hope that people can learn when their decisions do enough direct harm to themselves. It’s tariffs and small businesses. It’s Latinos for Trump that are now targeted by ICE for how they look.
I agree things are pretty sure. That's another reason to disengage with the voter blame debate in my book and focus on more productive use of my time. May you be well
I hope you have a really wonderful day! Thanks for taking the time to talk through this with me.
I don't think voters refuse to learn so much as Dems refuse to remember what works. Obama won by promising hope and change, but now you're suggesting that rather than trying that again, they should keep appealing to the far right, and the voters should learn to not expect good things.
I think tea-partying the party in 2026 takes priority. The party has shown they don't care about winning, only insider trading
Isn't that assuming that people didn't already see Biden and/or Harris as an authoritarian threat tho? I know I did
?? I don't see how you get to this based on what I wrote, which is that I care more about coalition building than debating whose to blame for the election outcome. If you want to fight about Harris, pls direct your attention to someone who will engage in that game with you
So who was the better option if people wanted the genocide in Gaza stopped?
Kamala: youtu.be/lzV51vjoMaE?...
Trump on Gaza: www.ap.org/news-highlig... Also, to me the decision has to be bigger than Gaza. Global stability, economy, US civil rights, Ukraine, technological advancement, a fair justice system, freedom of speech, healthcare, all better options under Democrats than Trump.
So you are okay with 15,000 children being exterminated.
If you helped Trump win, the reverse question applies to you “So you are okay with 15,000 children being exterminated and Trump telling them to “finish the job” of eradicating Gaza?”
No it doesn’t. Not voting for someone supporting a genocide is NOT the same as voting for someone supporting a genocide. Try to keep up.
You have two options: one where 15k die, another when 100k die. I choose the lesser option. Tell the 75k that outcomes don’t matter.
Do you often have trouble tell reality from your fantasies? Do you have names of 5 of those fantasy children?
These libs aren't interested in engaging with reality. Politics is team sports to them. They repeat what the announcers have said about the players, cheer when their team wins and boo when the other loses and don't notice that their life gets no better with either result.
Trump: www.ap.org/news-highlig...
Nobody is saying Trump would be better
She also pledged ironclad support for Israel
Right. We had two options. Kamala tried to consider both sides. Trump wants to flatten Gaza and sell it off to the wealthy. I don’t know how more clear it can be that Kamala is better than Trump, but now we, and the Palestinians, are living with the Trump choice. We’ll see that outcome.
There’s no fucking both sides. It’s not a conflict it’s a genocide, and neither Biden nor Harris would acknowledge this
there were more than 2 options on my ballot, of course my preferred candidate was sued off so I chose not to vote at all The democrats made it perfectly clear that they didn't need or want my vote so I obliged them enjoy
There were four choices: Dems, GOP, 3rd party, and not voting. If the Dems wanted it to only be two options they should have run a viable campaign.
There is no 3rd party in the USA the could realistically win. To consider that is to be delusional. Not voting throws away your ability to contribute to a decision. Either the Democrat or Republican will win the presidency. It’s your choice between those two.
If a candidate doesn't win, but gets votes it's likely one of the major candidates will be more likely to adopt that person's platform to gain votes. You can choose not to contribute to the decision. If neither candidate is appealing to you, it's throwing your vote away to vote for either.