avatar
_______________________________ @phillmv.bsky.social

what exactly is the moral trap though? this is only a sensitive issue because of who the perpetrator is

aug 22, 2025, 2:34 pm • 0 0

Replies

avatar
Steve Randy Waldman @interfluidity.com

What do you mean by sensitive? The situation is ubiquitous. Usually, when it comes to this point, it is in fact resolved by ethnic cleansing. See Nagorno-Karabakh, 2023. See the aftermath of constant civil wars throughout Africa. See the aftermath of WWII. 1/

aug 22, 2025, 2:52 pm • 0 0 • view
avatar
Steve Randy Waldman @interfluidity.com

What makes Israel/Palestine so sensitive is that the rest of the world has wound itself up in the conflict, external partisans on both sides have emboldened and entrenched the two absolutely disgusting ethnonational projects. 2/

aug 22, 2025, 2:52 pm • 0 0 • view
avatar
Steve Randy Waldman @interfluidity.com

That has helped bring the situation to the point where any sort of integrated state (which might encompasses anything from French imperialism of internal neutality to US-style pluralism to Franco-Canadian style internal accommodationism to UK/Belgium-style regionalism) is impossible. 3/

aug 22, 2025, 2:52 pm • 0 0 • view
avatar
Steve Randy Waldman @interfluidity.com

Well meaning outsiders, whether diasporic liberal Zionists, or Arab nationalists who insisted Palestinians maintain permanent refugee status rather than be resettled, have made the conflict infinitely worse, helped to prevent any earlier human and humane settlement. 4/

aug 22, 2025, 2:52 pm • 0 0 • view
avatar
Steve Randy Waldman @interfluidity.com

In any case, the conflict has reached the point where the only likely settlement will be some kind of population transfer. Perhaps morally it ought to be the Jews of Israel that leave, but I suspect that's less likely. 5/

aug 22, 2025, 2:52 pm • 0 0 • view
avatar
Steve Randy Waldman @interfluidity.com

The language first of "national rights" — both of Jews, then of Palestinians — made this problem, and then the language of "international law" kept it simmering by absurdly keeping "a people" stuck in limbo when conflicts in fact end only by integrating the populations made refugees elsewhere. 6/

aug 22, 2025, 2:52 pm • 0 0 • view
avatar
Steve Randy Waldman @interfluidity.com

And now it will be a very hard pill to swallow, after all of the foolish, useless "sacrifice" and "martyrdom" for both detestable national projects, that "ethnic cleansing" will be the solution. Or it won't, and the Palestinian population will continue to be immiserated. 7/

aug 22, 2025, 2:52 pm • 0 0 • view
avatar
Steve Randy Waldman @interfluidity.com

Or Iran or someone else will throw in a monkey wrench, and a big war will become a regional etch-a-sketch. 8/

aug 22, 2025, 2:52 pm • 0 0 • view
avatar
Steve Randy Waldman @interfluidity.com

And if we collectively survive that war (only an if), the population transfers that will inevitable result at its end will be an afterthought, we'll have stopped worrying about "ethnic cleansing". /fin

aug 22, 2025, 2:52 pm • 0 0 • view
avatar
_______________________________ @phillmv.bsky.social

i meant in the sense that i don’t know that we feel shy about applying the “g-label” to other conflicts! it’s always easier to add up the moral score if you’re not directly involved. the ambiguity the sense that it’s a trap happens if you have sympathy for the perp 😝

aug 22, 2025, 3:03 pm • 0 0 • view