this is an interesting idea re: marketing but i don't really agree with this and actually think Pixar's mistake has been over-reaching in trying to appeal to adults over kids in terms of tone and sensibility (along with a couple genuine duds quality-wise)
What’s weird is the Mitchells versus the Machines was just a better movie from the same studio, also Netflix. But they gave it very little promotion.
I liked Mitchell and the Machines more, and my kids loved it. But my 7yo is *obsessed* with KPDH, in a way I haven’t seen since my oldest first saw Moana 8 years ago.
I think the way Pixar writes their movies is the biggest issue. It’s all board driven, pretty much written by committee. You end up with a weak story meant to appeal to so many people that it ends up appealing to no one. KPop had a strong director vision that they were personally passionate about.
For real. The last decade of Pixar movies feel like they’re trying to be therapy sessions for adults to heal their inner child.
The question is how that squares with the fact KPDH is *also* a generational-trauma, your-mother-figure-is-wrong movie
The articles arg I guess is that Pixar is targeting 30s and 40s, parent age, instead of 20-somethings, the influencer age. Which sounds correct. The article frames it as about viral YouTube marketing but 20-somethings have always been the tastemakers for older children, back to the Beatles.
An Inner Child that isn't living the life of the purported audience.
There is no secret formula that works. I would argue Turning Red is a more polished version of KpopDH they even had a hit boy band song. But it came out at a bad time with the pandemic. All the elements in Kpop have existed in films that sank. Its just a gamble what will hit and take off.
Although the timing may just be correlation and not causation, it really feels like Pixar lost their way after John Lasseter left in 2017.
Thinking about how risk adverse Pixar has been hasn't helped given that they've had two (2) movies they removed queer stuff in when that literally is part of their niche. Pixar stands out almost entirely for it's tween to adult edge and they have been choosing to NOT which leads to duds.
I think that they started out very funny and then got very emotional and now I think the ratio is always off
Making a “really funny premise” is actually a green m&m test for doing something that has incredible clarity of idea and purpose, and they ain’t been doing that.
this is a really boring answer for KPDH specifically but I think it's probably not worth overthinking the success of the movie as being about something premise or marketing-related as much as it being extraordinarily good (including the best original songs of any movie in decades)
Turns out being able to co-market your product on Netflix and Spotify and TikTok and YouTube simultaneously is really powerful because music itself is a universal culture carrier
I've heard the soundtrack 300 times because of my kids, and I'm not tired of it yet.
We'll probably never know how SOUL would've done if not for Covid but "why was our animated movie whose protagonist is a middle aged jazz music teacher not a huge hit" seems kind of intuitive bsky.app/profile/docs...
The thing about building a brand known for consistent risk taking and quality is that it doesn't take many duds to ruin the brand and make your audience suddenly risk-averse. There was a time in the 00s when Pixar could release *anything* and people would be pumped for it. Not anymore!
Has there ever been a lock for an Oscar win in August as much as "Golden" is a lock to win Original Song? bsky.app/profile/bkel...
Maybe What Was I Made For?
What It Sounds Like is a gorgeous song and perfect for its moment in the movie, but I agree that Golden is almost certainly the award lock.
Something I don't totally understand about Pixar is that it does seem like they'd be capable of making some lower-stakes, riskier animated movies with like $30M budgets (the same way they produce TV series) instead of only playing in the super-high-budget space. bsky.app/profile/deve...
This is the Pixar culture getting in the way: Every movie release is supposed to represent at least one technological leap for the visual presentation. At this point in the development of computer graphics and animation, that costs a lot!
I wonder how much of that was a factor as well, especially since theatrical marketing seems really broken right now bsky.app/profile/nott...
I go to the movies a lot and about half of them are repertoire movies. We're slowly entering an age where movies are more like music -people don't go to concerts of bands they haven't heard, and people won't go to the movies they haven't seen.
I hadn't thought about this until I read your skeet, but you're entirely correct! There have been several movies out this year that I would have gone to see in theaters but I didn't find out about them until they were already gone. This didn't used to happen! I'm not sure what changed.
I mostly consume the same advertising channels that I used to? I go to the movies and see six trailers for horror films that I won't watch and nothing else.
Going back to the OT, my son was somewhat stoked to see Elio but it was out and gone before we realized it was released.
Right, with all the major ways films used to build pre-release buzz broken by algorithms or the death of the film critic, even having the bonkers soundtrack that it does means we might just be looking at Encanto, where it got a second chance through streaming but was otherwise a dud.
Would be good opportunity to experiment with some different visual style too. House style's a bit familiar by now.
The Disney effect definitely hit -- way too many sequels, way too much stuff trying to be a whole Thing
Pixar needs to create internally what it itself once was: a risky, experimental sub-brand.
You think its a lock over "I Lied To You" from Sinners?
I’m more of a Soda Pop guy but the kids have Golden on repeat in this house.
Not this far out. But I'd be shocked if there was anything else
South Park: Bigger, Longer & Uncut for Best Original Musical Score. The category was not awarded that year.
I mean tbf, it’s not like Pixar hadn’t made successful movies with middle aged protagonists before
It would be one thing if their animated jazz movies oriented at older audiences had the kind of budget that an anime movie like Blue Giant or Inu-Oh might've had
My kids were allergic to it. Never finished the movie.
Elio was so watered down by execs that the director departed and was replaced. Final product bore little resemblance to his vision. Nothing new, but the execs who won the battle for control lost the war at the box office, so they couldn't even claim they knew better than Molina what audiences wanted
Agreed. On top of the incredible songs, it has excellent characterization, a simple but fantastically executed story, and a strong identity by not just wearing k-pop as a costume, but fully integrating Korean culture.
At the risk of getting too specific again, Maggie Kang's instinct to make teen girl characters with the capacity for multiple emotional tones--sometimes even two at the same time!--seems like the stronger explanation for the movie's resonating with audiences
My kids are constantly rewinding and fast forwarding to play the songs. A sountrack made completely out of bangers.
Looks and sounds good and goes down easy. Sometimes that's all you need.
KPDH is fundamentally a modern musical, animated and a good one at that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I could give a critical breakdown as to why, but it really just boils down to "it aimed to tell a basic, relatable story through music and it kept that focus throughout"
With an over/under of 2.5 for songs from this movie nominated for best original songs at the Oscars I might go over which is unheard of
There is no chance that will happen, c'mon! Encanto was a massive success, with songs written by a beloved artist, and they got one song nomination -- and "We Don't Talk About Bruno" (the biggest chart song in Disney history) wasn't one of them. They will spread the wealth.
I'm just saying KPDH is a global phenomenon that is not slowing down
No doubt. But I think people's memories are pretty short. Encanto was also a phenomenon, based on its music, and was only 4 years ago. If anything, that's the lesson -- make movies targeted at kids that have great songs. It has always worked, but is a necessity in the TikTok / YT Shorts age.
Absolutely, these songs from KPDH are everywhere and being used as templates for so many popular short form videos. You can't escape it haha I'm assuming since it's Netflix they get to apply for Emmy's too?
they gave it a limited theatrical release before releasing it on Netflix, specifically to make it eligible for oscar consideration. i don't think it's emmy eligible.
...hmmm. I am almost positive you have to pick one for each media property. That's a good question, though. It's a movie, so I assumed it was the Oscars. Like Maestro, Mank, etc. They did release it in the theaters (at least the Sing-a-long version) so that also indicates Oscars.
it had a short, very limited theatrical run before its release on netflix, specifically to meet oscar eligibility requirements (as netflix has done for a bunch of its other feature film releases), in addition to the much later sing-along version
Thanks. This movie is not in my area of interest, so I didn't track the early releases, but it has always seemed like it was a typical Netflix movie to me (albeit one that has now turned into a global smash hit).
I haven’t seen it (yet) but it feels like one of those alchemical combos of art, direction, and a great hook (in this case, Kpop songs) that when in good hands, is far greater than the sum of its parts. Kinda like “Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse”, just an all-around top-quality film.
KPDH and Spider-Verse both work because they take shopworn but sturdy Hollywood plot arcs, make them look and sound really good, and, this is key, maintain a quick, bubbly pace and don't let the audience get bored or think about the whole thing too much.
Second Spider-Verse movie started with strong Gwen and Miles story and then lost the plot and got bogged down in lore and multiverse nonsense. A shame.
And much as I love the relevance of the recent Disney “The real villain is GENERATIONAL TRAUMA” (Encanto, Coco, Turning Red) movies, it’s nice to have some good old monster-hunting, too (Obv, since I haven’t seen it, there may be additional themes, just sayin’)
It’s annoying that pop-culture represents other cultures at the same time as the ascendance of the generational trauma trope. Latino and Asian kids want to fight dragons too, but instead we just get to fight our parents, our heritage. Is the only heroes journey we get to have an identity crisis?
Disney: Best we can do is “Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings” (I was going to add “Frozen” to the list, but that’s less generational and more intergeneration trauma)
Generational trauma is a core theme of KPDH
*ticks that off the list, then*
This checks out because what I liked about Pixar movies was them being extraordinarily good and when they stopped being that I stopped watching them
This held up a surprisingly long time. I've Got You Dumb Motherfuckers Eating Right Out Of My Hand - The Onion share.google/XQYPMxTbVP1N...
Superman to the Marvel movies is another example. Turns out the answer was make a good movie this whole time.
I sort of agree with you but I think the issue is focusing on appeal over the story they're trying to tell. I personally think the best movie Pixar has made in a long time is Luca because it's a simple story that has something to say. That's the core of all Pixar's bangers.
My favorite Pixar movie is Ratatouille because again, simple premise that has something to say about it. Both Luca and Ratatouille are reactionary, but their message is positive. That's what makes Pixar work and why Up or Finding Nemo are classics. Brave is highly underrated in this regard.
Meanwhile, consider a movie like Encanto or Frozen. Banger soundtracks, but weaker stories that don't quite have the same appeal. Encanto does a little too much, it gets scattered, while Frozen has distracting plot holes. They're hits but not in the way Toy Story was.
The tag line for Buzz Lightyear was that it was Andy from Toy Story’s favorite movie. Then it was a slow paced science fiction movie about the effects of near light time dilation and dedication to duty. What were they thinking?
In their defense my favorite movie as a kid was Titan AE, and Lightyear has big Titan AE vibes. Maybe Andy was a weird kid. (My bump wasn't that Andy would like it, but that it would be a hit or be made in 1992. It had big 2020s vibes.)
TITAN AE was also a huge box office bomb, even if it's fondly remembered by a lot of people now
Mostly I think you can't release movies that touch on really emotionally resonant themes on a semi-annual basis. I don't know if the audience created that expectation or if that came internally, but they had a series of releases that were really impressed with themselves and had no reason to be
Like if there was ever any in juice left in Toy Story, it was utterly drained by the end of the sequel and we're up to like 5 or 6 now
I think it’s the curse of Inside Out. Ever since then it feels like Pixar wants to only mark elevated storytelling about abstract concepts. There’s a halfway point between that and the Koolaid man doing a tiktok dance and that’s where fun lives. It’s where KpopDH lives.
I don't know if I agree with that. Both Wall-E and Up were very adult in themes and tone. For me, it's that it no longer feels fresh. The art style that defined them, now holds them back. The stories don't feel new (just the "gimmick"). Inside Out 2 is the only Pixar I've seen in the theater in yrs.
A little ironic to be like "the problem is they don't feel new/fresh any more, I did see the latest cash-in sequel they did though"
True. But it was also very good.
I agree. It's an offshoot of the "what if we just remake things that 90's kids remember/like?" disease. Your movies have to first and foremost hit for kids and then you hope you made something good enough that it has broad appeal.
Let Kids Movies Be Kids Movies
I tried to watch KPDH, but the gross-out humor and nonsensical plot in the first 5 minutes turned me right off. :-( Give me Wall-E, Turning Red or even Zootopia any day of the week. I felt like it was for 12 year olds, which is fine, they need movies too!
yeah it is genuinely insane to me how many Pixar movies are about, like. "trying to impress your dad"
that's a lot of movies, stories, human experience
I don't agree either! It's the frenetic humor and adult sensibility in movies that fall flat with kids. They've seen it a gazillion times- the goofy sidekick, the meta-joke asides. Kpop has a teen vibe, so the tweens of course love it .. & the songs drill into your brain like RFK's brainworm.
I think a like Miyazaki/Henson/Le Guin principle that a lot of companies seem to miss is that you can make a kids story that resonates with adults if you just take kids seriously as viewers/readers—it can even be dark and scary!—but step 1 is make something for kids
An interesting trend: Pixar’s protagonists have been getting younger as their stories have become increasingly insistent about being adult-relevant. Bob Parr is in his 40s. Marlin is a father. Carl Fredricksen is a retiree. Remy/WALL-E/Joy are in the middle. Then there’s Luca/Mei Lee/Elio.
That being said my kid is obsessed with Abbott Elementary, a show about middle-aged teachers
I've also wondered how much of KPD's success was that it could find its audience and build buzz on Netflix in a way that wouldn't be allowed if it were initially released in theaters.
SOUL was the weirdest movie I have ever seen.
I respect them for trying something there.
None of my kids liked it but their dad thinks it's great. Which kind of proves Michael's point
Yeah, I loved it but my kids were bored