Guynn: Where he's held is unreviewable. Xinis: I don't know that that's right...But why if he's released from criminal custody, why not just agree to allow him to be released on the conditions set? Guynn: Government's view is he's a danger to public....
If a court finds that he is not a danger to the public and not a flight risk, then who cares what the government thinks?
That's how things worked last year. This regime has repeatedly defied the judiciary, and the Supreme Court has mostly enabled it, and gutted the ability of lower court judges to stop them.
DOJ is the only threat to the public that I see
๐๐ก๐ ๐ ๐จ๐ฏ๐๐ซ๐ง๐ฆ๐๐ง๐ญ ๐ข๐ฌ ๐ญ๐ก๐ ๐๐๐ง๐ ๐๐ซ ๐ญ๐จ ๐ญ๐ก๐ ๐ฉ๐ฎ๐๐ฅ๐ข๐โฆ๐ก๐จ๐ฐ ๐๐๐จ๐ฎ๐ญ ๐ซ๐๐ฆ๐จ๐ฏ๐ข๐ง๐ ๐ญ๐ก๐ ๐ฐ๐ก๐จ๐ฅ๐ ๐๐๐ฆ๐ข๐ง๐ข๐ฌ๐ญ๐ซ๐๐ญ๐ข๐จ๐ง ๐ญ๐จ ๐ ๐๐ซ๐ ๐ฐ๐จ๐ซ๐ฅ๐ ๐๐จ๐ฎ๐ง๐ญ๐ซ๐ฒ? ๐๐๐ค๐ ๐ฒ๐จ๐ฎ๐ซ ๐ฉ๐ข๐๐คโฆ๐๐ฎ๐๐๐งโฆ๐๐ฎ๐ฌ๐ฌ๐ข๐โฆ
How about the Mariana Trench?
Xinis: Magistrate judge held in lengthy opinion that he's not a danger to the community....You've read that, right? Guynn: I don't know what the bases will be after the July 16 hearing [when district judge will hold hearing on Abrego's release from criminal custody]...
Xinis: But assuming that he's ordered released after that hearing, what's the problem? He'll be in his home, on a monitor... Guynn: The government's position is that he's a danger to the community and would seek his removal
Translation: "We don't care what a judge says, we will do what we want regardless"
Exactly
Translation: Govโt would have egg all over its face if Garcia was ever released - regardless of how onerous the circumstances: in his home, ankle monitor, 24-hr. surveillance, daily check-ins, phones tapped, relatives followed, etc. This is all about saving face. Period.
They act like they have a face to save. Thatโs the truly remarkable thing.
๐ฏ
100%. If we had real journalism somebody would be interviewing him in prison - or fighting to have a court allow that access. The press should not be resting on their laurels while the government **exploits and abuses the justice system** entirely to obstruct reporting on their behavior.
Doj behavior is pretty disgusting.
Doj continues to argue he's a danger to society and yet hasn't been convicted of anything?
Nor have they had to provide any evidence. I know that's not what this case is about but they shouldn't be able to continue to say that. Though couched in lawyerly terms.
Guynn: Plaintiff's are asking you to preside over what the immigration judge does...that's not proper. Xinis: that's not what they're asking me to do... She turns to question of ordering production of person w/ personal knowledge to get answers. Guynn argues she doesn't have authority to do that
Is there any procedure for a court to put a person into protective custody of the court?
Even if not, it appears to be needed. I think normally this is an FBI/ federal marshal job, but I am unsure frankly. It seems perfectly reasonable to have this.
Itโs called โJudge Cannon-ingโ
Theyโre just going to keep pretending the government is acting in good faith
this is the remnants of the DOJ, I would guess most if not all of the competent lawyers have left already
Hell, this guy's a Jones Day partner, take that as you will.
It depends. Does the court have jurisdiction? And on & on.
Xinis for 10th SC justice after we expand court.
Who is this Guynn? He's got a set and wondering the over/under on disbarent.
he should sue for false imprisonment
Per LinkedIn, he's been with the DOJ since... April. Previously at Jones Day. He joined during the Trump Admin, so it's not like this is some career civil servant being forced to make shitty arguments due to circumstances. He knew what he was signing up for.
You are so right and thank for info.
*Disbarment*, and he might get that set handed to him if he wanders too close to disrespectful arrogance. We're not present in the courtroom, so we miss out on the cues that could affect our wager... Meanwhile, these lawyers are flying awfully close to the sun.๐๐คฃ๐
Yes, disbarment.
๐๐จ๐ ๐๐จ๐๐ฌ๐งโ๐ญ ๐๐๐ซ๐โฆ๐ญ๐ก๐๐ข๐ซ ๐ฉ๐จ๐ฌ๐ข๐ญ๐ข๐จ๐ง ๐ข๐ฌ ๐๐ฅ๐ฐ๐๐ฒ๐ฌ ๐ญ๐จ "๐๐๐๐ฅ๐๐๐ญ, ๐๐๐ง๐ฒ, ๐๐๐ฅ๐๐ฒ.โ ๐๐ญโ๐ฌ ๐ญ๐ก๐๐ข๐ซ ๐ฌ๐ญ๐ซ๐๐ญ๐๐ ๐ฒ ๐ญ๐จ ๐๐ฏ๐จ๐ข๐ ๐๐๐๐จ๐ฎ๐ง๐ญ๐๐๐ข๐ฅ๐ข๐ญ๐ฒ ๐จ๐ซ ๐ซ๐๐ฌ๐ฉ๐จ๐ง๐ฌ๐ข๐๐ข๐ฅ๐ข๐ญ๐ฒโฆ๐๐ง๐ ๐๐๐, ๐๐๐, ๐๐๐โฆ
Recent events beg the question: Will ICE detain, arrest, and deport him again on his way out of court like they do outside immigration courts?
I love that she told them she suspects they're lying. Straight to their lying faces.
Guynn and Xinis get into a back and forth about whether this motion sounds in habeas and where Abrego was when this case was filed/when this motion was filed (which goes to government's jurisdictional arguments...)
And with that, Judge Xinis decides it's time for a break. We're on recess for 15 minutes -- I'll resume this thread then! Thanks for following along. If you appreciate our live courts coverage, I hope you'll consider supporting our non-profit journalism: givebutter.com/journalism/a...
I have made a donation. YOu all should too!
Thanks, Anna
I wonder if Judge Xinis has a special Maintain Your Sanity closet in her chamber's. Sound proofed and padded for screaming, kicking and punching out frustrations with stupid lying goons. I know i'd need one.
Thank you for sharing all of these updates!
DOJ: We believe he should be jailed because he is a danger to the public. Judge: the other judge said he isnโt. DOJ: crapโฆuhโฆok weโll think of another reason to keep him in jail.
Thanks!
Are they going to address his torture claims in the recent filing today?
I'm wondering the same, specifically where the claims of torture (which seem credible to me, FWIW) would legally come into play or if those would trigger any judgment that the government has been acting in bad faith and is subject to additional scrutiny.
"All rise!" and we're back. Xinis: What I'd like to do is on Thursday take some testimony from someone with personal knowledge regarding what the government's plans are for Mr. Abrego if he's released from criminal custody.
Guess Christie will be co splaying a suit on Thursday. Who knows. What a worthless life sheโs leading.
Whatโs most important to the government is that Mr. Abrego not appear in any interview. Of course, 60 Minutes et al are now too cowed to do anything that will put them in the crosshairs of the administration. See also Turkey locking up political opponents when no checks and balances.
Molina pipes up for the government: I don't know that the agency will have all of its plans solidified by then... Xinis: What I want to know is if there is the risk of due process infirmity, because if there isn't then it moots the motion [re: return of abrego/order affording him due process]...
Thank you, Anna
Xinis: It can be more than one witness. Subject to examination by the parties. Quick turnaround -- will set hearing for 1 pm on Thursday. We'll go from there once I get the facts.
Xinis then turns to the last item on the agenda today: Abrego's motion to file an amended complaint. Government hasn't had time to respond to motion yet, so Xinis says she can give them that opportunity. storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.us...
Guynn, for DOJ, says that the government has concerns about the amended complaint. We believe some of the allegations in the complaint are false, he says.
So grateful for your coverage! Thank you!
Could the judge just have one of the tracking put on him that they use for home detention...expand it to his city and if it shuts off or he's removed from the area, she's alerted? Of course that doesn't mean the government wouldn't try to screw it up ๐
Thank you Anna!!!!
Anna you're the best. Thank you for the detailed coverage.
I predict that 0 witnesses will show up, and that DOJ will dare the judge to do anything about it.
OK. So I was wrong. They sent one witness who knows absolutely nothing about the case and is only able to explain how things are supposed to work in case like this. Completely useless.
This thread was incredible. Thank you. ๐๐ป
"Risk of due process infirmity" might as well be tattooed across the face of every single official in this regime.
Damn straight. ๐
Thank you, Anna.
molina translation 'we don't know if we'll be able to unalive Mr. Garcia by then?'
This is all so wrong, and Xinis doesnโt appear to really see the bad faith the DOJ is spewing. We can all see it.
I think Xinis sees it evidenced by previous interactions with recent interactions w/gov lawyers. She needs to make sure that on appeal, the work she does is buttoned up fairly tight
Xinis sees it, but also knows that if she brazenly bursts out with the obvious rage felt in her blood, she will be dismissed and they'll cherrypick a shitgibbon to mishandle it out the window. Being a judge in a case this extreme is exclusively about self-control.
These are great. Thank you.
Thanks Anna.
โฃ๏ธ Xinis: What I want to know is if there is the risk of due process infirmity, because if there isn't then it moots the motion [re: return of abrego/order affording him due process]...
You've had 5 months to concoct a narrative. Get your shit together.
I hate to appear stupid but wasn't the whole point of getting him back here was because he was under indictment and facing a criminal trial? And now they want to ship him off to a third country instead? Sure, sounds like their indictment is just a bunch of bullshit. They don't want to allow this man
to be able to speak out. The indictment is just a scam.
I think if I'd been listening in person I'd be bored or lost. But following threads like this has this sense of excitement and anticipation that I assume sportsball fans get when they listen to sportsball announcers describing sportsball stuff.
"The government plans to be maximally-cruel to Mr.A-G in whatever way the courts permit it to be, your Honor."
Great digging in the Ralph Kramden vault.
"Testimony" about future plans? What possible good will that do? "Yes, your honor, that is what we planned. But we changed our minds, so the testimony was not Purjurous."
Thank you for the follow along!
thank you for such great coverage. its a shame this type of coverage isnt the norm and is the exception.
I get we have a major story in Texas today and I'm devouring that coverage, too. But it would be nice to get a segment on this important story in an hour of TV.
Again thanks. This thread is essential reading because it documents the twists and turns of so much bad faith Govt lawyering. @annabower.bsky.social commitment to the task of conveying this while suppressing any instinct to metaphorically scream on the page is admirable.
Thank you for your hard work!
Thank you so much, Anna!
Thank you for this coverage! Itโs so helpful and informative to read and sheds stunning light on the dirty DOJ. Itโs remarkable to me that they continually come to the brave and brilliant Judge Xinis with total middle school debate level arguments
*apologies to middle schoolers, youโre better than that and we know it
Legacy media goons, take note: THIS is journalism.
Joe Kahn has read your comment and accepts it as praise of his editorial decisions and leadership.
Commented with institutional blindness; doesnโt matter whoโs who when right is right.
Follow and support Lawfare.
Follow Lawfare.
Thank you!
Grateful for your tireless coverage Anna. Furious that DOJ sounds like mob lawyers...
Just made a donation. Keep up the great work!
๐ ๐
thank you, Anna!
๐
Seriously youโre amazing! Thank you for doing this incredible public service of reporting out the hearing!
Not sure if you are reading these during the break, Anna... what is the most likely scenario of the outcome today?
It's incredible how little the government seems to know about what the government is doing.
They are trying to not lie in open court and be disbarred. So they โcanโt recallโ or โdonโt know.โ
Doing some real circular reasoning on this one
And/or, how little ex-nighttime-TV-product-hawker-turned executive branch goons will share with judges, schatting on our American Rule of Law system. May karmic turnabout be fair play one day.
Thank you so much for your play-by-play.
I appreciate you using #AltText so everyone can follow along. I'm assuming the Government is saying that you can't order the Government to testify against itself?
Thank you so much!
Thank you, so much, Anna!!! ๐๐ปโญ
So sad to see how completely disgusting and dishonest the DOJ has become.
๐
๐
Weren't they saying that was fine earlier? That they just needed to find who that is? So shady
Do lawyers usually make it a habit to tell judges what they can and canโt do?
Not the competent ones. They can make what they believe are good faith arguments to the court, but it's a fine line...
Guynn comes across as a slimy turd.
How can he sleep at night
Without a problem. I suspect he's impervious to the human costs to the plaintiff. #Lawyers
Government's position is a lie. Bad faith.
The Govt have repeatedly said they will remove KAG whatever the status of the criminal case โ demonstrating that the criminal case is mere pretext for 1 getting him back 2 fabricating a narrative of his criminal dangerousness 3 which they have a settled intention of NOT PROVING in a criminal court!!
The importance of this should not be underestimated. The rejoineder by the Govt. might well be โThere are different standards of proof applicable to the 2 proceedings: Criminal = beyond reasonable doubt Immig = civil standard. So it is not unusal that an acquired defendant may be deportable.โ
* acquitted not acquired
However that ignores that the criminal process, with its more rigorous discovery, admissibility and cross examination, affords the accused the best opportunity of demonstrating that the evidence against him is WORTHLESS. And any such findings would bleed in to any Immig process against him !!!
Of COURSE it's the government's position that he's a danger to the community. He's BROWN. That's all the reason they need.
Translation: He knows too much about the secret prison in El Salvador.
and the "process" that sent him there
The government's position is a steaming pile of dung. These people are not just assholes, they are world champion assholes. Best in classholes.
Danger to the public based on WHAT? He hasn't been convicted or even charged with ANYTHING. And the government needs due process to PROVE any of that.
Politically dangerous. Documented and prominent evidence of their heinous actions.
There's plenty of documentation of real action they're taking.
They seem very determined to get rid of him, representing their embarrassing error, and just dump him somewhere else. You don't think they want to keep him from talking?
My bad, responded to the wrong thread.
"We don't just have contempt for your power judge, we have contempt for the ability of the court to rule against anything we do in general. What a court rules is not binding on the government." FTFY.
The admin just wants him as a symbol of their absolute power. Theyโre no more afraid of him than the man in the moon.
Than the gvmnt is criminal here.
Determined to make an example with him to show they can throw whoever they want wherever they want whenever they want.
'Round and 'round we go.
Oh, bullshit. They let an ACTUAL dangerous person out of jail in order to buy his testimony against Abrego. Trump said he was a "bad guy," so they have to pull out all the stops pretending that's true.
๐ฏ
Sounds like the Trump regime has decided Abrego Garcia is guilty, even though there's been no trial. What happened to "innocent until proven guilty in a court of law"?
He's guilty of being some poor guy they made a mistake deporting in the first place. Now he's got to pay
DOJ attorneys should all be disbarred for their lawless arguments.
... So he's already presumed guilty, is that what they're saying? IANAL, but there's something I've heard somewhere about that being โ
Because we released a real criminal to testify against him and all we had to do to get him to say it was HIS freedom. But he isnโt in the news everyday your honor so people donโt care
Laughable: if criminal court finds Govt not made out Def is danger to public, so releases on bond etc WTAF is Govt relying on re immigration release!!!!
Racism
Yeah he is a danger to the public because he knows what a hell hole CECOT is - and will destroy the administration
Some reliable media outlet needs to arrange for an interview ASAP. He can talk about CECOT and his experiences.
Would be a fantastic time for Mr Abrego Garciaโs attorneys to ask for leave to subpoena the rest of the prisoners down in CECOT for sworn affidavits on their experiences down there. Letโs see how comfortable DOJ will be for corroborating witnesses (and maybe get as many of them back state side)
This administration is more of a danger to the public than him.
government is lying.
GMAFB
He is a PR nightmare for THEM. that's the danger.
Please.
We donโt care about the gvmntโs views. This is a legal thing.
They really have it out for that man, and the question is why? It seems his life is in danger both in El Salvador and the U.S. What does he know that they are terrified of him to reveal? Their persecution of this man is personal and unsettling.
Because releasing him is admitting that Dear Leader, and the Puppy Killer, and their masked gestapo, were all wrong. That their argument that they don't need due process because Dear Leader Knows All is wrong. Corruption Bondie's very loud insistence that he is a terrorist gang member is wrong
Based on what? Trust me bro?
aka he knows and has experienced too much. gotta get him out of site and mind
What BS
If he didnโt have an asylum case before, he sure has one nowโฆ
๐๐๐๐๐
Your lips to the court-gods ears!
I wish Xinis had corrected Guynn and said โby โgovernmentโ you mean the Executive branch? The Judicial branch has made no such judgmentโ
The white dude who once speculated that he might look for work at the Home Depot parking lot is in danger