I agree, it seems poor - especially when you consider that busses generally last much longer than cars. Will today's new diesel buses still be on the roads by 2050 and beyond?
Replies
Is this the ‘logic’ of a business case with a payback over a short period? See also, infrastructure decisions based on short paybacks
aug 16, 2025, 7:12 am • 1 0 • view
Up front costs would be enormous though, for the buses and all the infrastructure you’d need. As with agriculture, feels like it’s going to a good chunk of demand for e-diesel.
aug 16, 2025, 7:15 am • 1 0 • view
And yet the Chinese appear to be managing it?
aug 16, 2025, 7:30 am • 2 0 • view
Managing what? China has lot of Diesel use outside the major cities.
aug 16, 2025, 11:14 am • 0 0 • view
Managing to make 100% of new buses electric, as per link someone shared above.
aug 16, 2025, 3:16 pm • 0 0 • view
Hmm maybe urban buses, I highly doubt all buses.
aug 16, 2025, 3:19 pm • 0 0 • view
London for example is only buying 100% electric buses already.
aug 16, 2025, 3:20 pm • 0 0 • view
Probably less need to retrofit depots.
aug 16, 2025, 7:35 am • 0 0 • view
How do you mean? They'd also need to build bus charging stations wouldn't they?
aug 16, 2025, 7:37 am • 0 0 • view
Chinese more willing to build full new infra, where as starting point here would be upgrading existing depots which is expensive and hard.
aug 16, 2025, 10:02 am • 4 0 • view
Not to be funny but this is once again just a planning problem. Completely demolish and rebuild isn’t really that expensive but councils seem to hate it. One place the uk really stands out is that we do very little complete demolition and rebuild of ordinary sites.
aug 16, 2025, 10:10 am • 1 0 • view
I don't think you'd need to demolish and rebuild bus stations. You just need to add charging points. The Chinese are very good at just building wider power infrastructure when it's needed though - they don't do consultation
aug 16, 2025, 10:13 am • 1 0 • view
Power supply seems like it might be a barrier in some places? Fast-charging a fleet's worth of buses is a heck of a lot of electricity. Hopefully the supply companies are on top of it, but getting those amperes to either dense urban or out-of-the-way remote places isn't a cakewalk.
aug 16, 2025, 10:32 am • 2 0 • view
I mean I’m not sure and ‘bus depot’ covers everything from just a place to wait for a bit to full maintenance facilities and overnight storage for hundreds of buses. But the point is that since demolition is usually cheap renovations costing more shouldn’t really be a reason.
aug 16, 2025, 10:21 am • 1 0 • view
I’d suspect the major planning barrier to rapid electrification of depots will be with the DNO and the time it’ll take to get a grid connection. But putting some big batteries on site to limit max draw on grid/increase speed of bus charge (and maybe help DNO at peaks) is helping on this
aug 16, 2025, 11:00 am • 1 0 • view
Zenobe have done this at Walworth who couldn’t get the necessary grid connection without. Suspect we’ll end up with batteries everywhere we’re currently worried about grid capacity limiting connections - new homes the obvious one.
aug 16, 2025, 11:02 am • 1 0 • view
You see this quite often too with converting office buildings when you could just demolish and rebuild flats and councils object on what is largely nonsense like ‘embodied carbon’.
aug 16, 2025, 10:22 am • 1 0 • view
Don’t you have a problem with too long a time with no ‘depot’. Not helped by slower construction times.
aug 16, 2025, 10:26 am • 0 0 • view
Again if you are happy to do demolition this isn’t a problem. Buy a new site, demolish whatever is on it, build a new one, then at the end demolish the old one and rebuild it as flats (they are often in good spots). Can probably do all the inner city ones at a profit.
aug 16, 2025, 10:28 am • 4 0 • view
I would assume there would be some knock on implications for getting the grid power to the depot which would be quite high to charge a load of buses 24/7
aug 16, 2025, 11:00 am • 0 0 • view
But sir that 1960s concrete bus bunker is a local monument and demolishing it would irrevocably destroy the character of Brombley-on-Thames.
aug 16, 2025, 10:34 am • 4 0 • view
Nice idea, but challenging in the context of larger and more heavily regenerated cities unless you're willing and able to e.g. temporarily tarmac a chunk of the local park during the rebuild, or borrow the local Tesco/hospital/stadium car park for a few years.
aug 16, 2025, 10:44 am • 0 0 • view
(Which is probably what should happen, but our local electoral system and peoples' absurdly high expectations of *not* having their lives disrupted a bit for the common good - see HS2, cycle lanes and so on - makes this politically toxic).
aug 16, 2025, 10:47 am • 0 0 • view
In the UK the problem is when it comes times to do demolition you get 1000 challenges about changing the character of the area and why a shed thrown up on the lowest possible budget in 1925 is really a valuable bit of our heritage.
aug 16, 2025, 10:29 am • 4 0 • view
To power the bus charging stations they also need grid upgrades and sufficient capacity in the system
aug 16, 2025, 7:59 am • 1 0 • view
But so do the Chinese.
aug 16, 2025, 9:40 am • 0 0 • view
Who are tackling these problems a touch faster than the DSOs here
aug 16, 2025, 10:24 am • 1 0 • view
Are you sure of that? Where's your data?
aug 16, 2025, 10:29 am • 0 0 • view
CREA have some stats on the production vs demand indicating a massive oversupply in china compared with the uk
aug 16, 2025, 10:20 pm • 1 0 • view
China has a lot of spare gen capacity so its the local asset that will need upgrading where the UK prob more issues with wider grid upgrades. But lack of planning confetti will be helping obv
aug 16, 2025, 10:23 am • 1 0 • view
China’s also running a deficit of nearly 10% of GDP… I’m not saying it’s not possible, just that I assume most businesses/operators now are put off by the up front costs and lack of infra.
aug 16, 2025, 7:38 am • 1 0 • view
Infrastructure investment is not included in budget deficit figures, especially if the investment is made by private bus companies. Investment is generally seen as a good thing, the returns from lower fueling costs and cheaper public transport will improve the future economy. Sign of confidence!
aug 16, 2025, 8:25 am • 1 0 • view
Yes, but if I’m that private bus company I still need to find and invest that money up front, which I suspect is a challenge for many.
aug 16, 2025, 9:01 am • 2 0 • view
Indeed. From what I’ve seen most (all?) electric buses have been financed by HMGovt. Whilst I’d love to see all new buses electric I bet they cost a fortune
aug 16, 2025, 9:16 am • 1 0 • view
Depends of many things - some cities have better located garages, some places have easier grid connections. Electric buses reduce oops costs - but only if you can find the up front costs and really work best on flatter shorter routes of urban areas.
aug 16, 2025, 11:15 am • 1 0 • view