I can't speak to the early church, but the medieval church debated this to the point of obsession—to the extent that there are frescoes in Italian churches in which priests are holding up not hosts but little Christs as they consecrate the eucharist
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To me, a more helpful sacramental theology of the eucharist begins with trying to understand "what Christ is saying about himself, and about His relationship with us" in the words of the last supper—namely that he is priest *and* victim, offering Himself for our redemption
jul 2, 2025, 2:58 pm • 2 0 • view
But this all gets rather abstract, so I can see the appeal of a figure like Hopkins, finding the indwelling vestiges of God (via a medieval Franciscan theology) in the spectacular flashing forth of created things
jul 2, 2025, 2:59 pm • 2 0 • view
And I guess that's where the drama of the last supper aligns—it's a theatrical, communicative gesture, a "sacrament" that says something about God even / just as it effects what it communicates
jul 2, 2025, 3:00 pm • 4 0 • view
I dunno if that responds well to the question you're asking, but thank you for posting it, as it got me reflecting on the mystery of bread and wine, which, transubstantiation aside, are pretty weird objects in and of themselves...amateur bakers know that bread of has a mind of its own : )
jul 2, 2025, 3:02 pm • 3 0 • view
Okay sorry last thing...there's a lot not to like about Benedict XVI, but as a scholar Ratzinger was an expert on medieval sacramental theology, and as pope he has really insightful things about the last supper in Jesus of Nazareth vol. 2
jul 2, 2025, 3:09 pm • 1 0 • view
I can't find the exact passage, but I remember him saying something about "personhood" in the ancient world, and Christ's desire that His personhood expands to include us who are nourished through / with / in Him
jul 2, 2025, 3:11 pm • 1 0 • view
Well, forgive me if I misread you, but this reads like substitutionary atonement, which is not part of my theology
jul 2, 2025, 3:19 pm • 0 0 • view
Ah no, not meaning to imply any substitutionary atonement at all (not part of mine either). I'm more trying to draw attention to historical-religious context (of temple sacrifice) to get a better idea of how Christ could have understood those words.
jul 2, 2025, 3:22 pm • 1 0 • view
I think self-emptying or "loving till the end" is more the point, or "an offering of self to begin something new," than "I am going to take your place on the cross and die the death you deserve you filthy sinners"
jul 2, 2025, 3:23 pm • 1 0 • view