I get it. We want to oppose Trump but they are banking on people doing the opposite of whatever he says. “Don’t burn the flag!” So, a vet burns the flag in front of the White House. “SEE!! THEY HATE AMERICA!!” Wall to wall coverage. Stop stepping on the rakes these weirdos are laying out for you.
We need a national day to burn trump flags
I'm surprised that Fred Wellman is afraid to step on MAGA rakes.
"The center-left will always be with us."
I am sure you mean well, but when you tone police a valid form of protest you’re empowering the opposition. It is a messaging war as you say. The message should be “flag burning is a constitutionally enshrined freedom of expression and I support it.” Anything else legitimizes the bad faith framing.
I think everyone should be able to burn the flag not just vets 😔
Yeah I hear everyone screaming "DO SOMETHING" and in many ways it is smarter to be strategic and muted in our resistance. Fight them in the courts and in the legislature where you can. But stay off the streets. Don't give them the excuse they need. They WANT the overreaction.
So, don't exercise our constitutional rights? And that will somehow...make him stop trying to take away those rights?
It’s time people start talking about 2026. We may not be able to stop Trump in 2026 but we can sure as hell slow him down. Even if we only win back the majority in the house there would be more oversight than we have now.
Force the DOJ to comply with court orders. Stop the deployment of the military onto city streets. Stop Trump from accepting bribes from foreign leaders. Stop DOJ from targeting Trump’s political enemies. Restore FEMA functional oversight duties to agency personnel. Resume oversight of tariffs.
Everything is a fuckin rake, Fred. They kidnap and kill with impunity. But no, don't upset them! At some point, we have to fuck them up, and permanently. But we can't do it with capitulation, fear or indecision, especially from those who fucking know better.
Lakoff calls it "accepting the frame." After a decade of trying, I'm not sure there's a way to cure it. The dopamine rush of instinctive response is too powerful, and now the algorithms reward the key words.
It speaks to the profound mediocracy that ‘centrist' white men aspire to that they can’t even bring themselves to criticize the right anymore, and post wide eyed admiration for fascist rhetoric while kicking downward. I respect the vet drastically more than milquetoast fuckboys.
I'm not sure that you cure it, but you keep your powder dry for when it counts. Don't do it reflexively, but do it when it will have maximal effect, when the absurdity of the situation is too obvious to ignore.
Release the #TrumpsteinFiles #Epstein #EpsteinFiles #EpsteinList #TrumpEpsteinCoverUp
I dunno I’m down here on the ground in the south and as far as I can tell people don’t give a fuck about flag burning
I get it also. I am not one to burn the flag, but as a veteran, I believe if anyone has a right (and probably a reason) It is him, we all fought for that right. If not even someone who fought for that right, can't exercise it, then what was it for?
That would be a valid criticism if there were a whole bunch of people across the country burning flags. If it's just the one guy, maybe he was put up to it or had a completely different thought process. You know they do the wall-to-wall coverage whether the thing happens or not.
So the MAGA weirdos win again, successfully stifling dissent and peaceful protests. Since I don’t watch legacy TV media, I am not subjected to wall to wall coverage of anything.
Stop stepping on vets. The MSM didn't cover the fact that it was a 20-year decorated combat vet that burned the flag to make the statement he supports the Constitution. Get a perspective.
Except everything they do is bad faith and anything will be framed in a negative light. These are people who turned the president wearing a tan suit into a national crisis. Do what's right, fight for what's right because they will treat everything as wrong.
Sorry,no. Do it all. Do everything and anything. Overwhelm them with actions.
When it comes to constitutionally protected rights I have to say that is a non-starter. We don't couch ourselves in the face of someone attempting to curtail them but rather exercise those rights more fervently than ever to protect them.
Yeah, like they revile and despise transgender people and we turn around and treat trans people as human because we're decent. Great point Matt Yglesias
We can’t operate in an ecosphere of worrying about how they frame anything. They’re insane. What better than a vet burning a flag? Saying a veteran hates America is nonsense. He’s standing up for his 1st amendment right. He’s fighting for all of us. Who are you to question that? Get over yourself
yeah, if we've learned nothing else, it should be clear by now no matter what we do or do not do - they will create their own framing and narrative around it our actions pretty much dont matter anymore because they've constructed a media and reality for themselves
I dunno, Fred A vet being arrested for burning a🇺🇸 seems just like the kind of minimal risk fight that has potentially huge rewards and only unlikely & negligible consequences. It serves many functions Its stark Its defense is legally/publicly robust They already/always say we hate🇺🇸, small impact
I see the point, and I also agree to some extent. But also then they'd say, see...we made them quit burning flags! Everyone is afraid. Neither is great.
That's why I think it's wise to go about our business and ignore the "troops" he sends in. That way, all they get is footage of the Guard walking around with nothing to do.
I've been saying this a lot lately...but I continue to be proven correct: Post-Obama, Democrats have gotten REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY bad at politics. Really bad.
I get what you're saying. However, he didn't just say 'Don't burn the flag!' He tried to make it a crime to do so, didn't he?
If he says it and no one burns the flag...because who is doing this anyway right now...then he has to move on because it's a nothingburger.
And he would never move on nothing, right? It's impossible. It would be like sending in troops to stop a crime wave when crime is down. God save us from all you naive fools who think you're the savvy ones.
I don't know if it's a nothingburger to infringe on our rights just bc we aren't using a specific statement at the moment. Giving it a big yawn is like sleepwalking into the entire authoritarian movement.
someone ALREADY burned a flag, in protest. Yes, of course he'll move on if no one burns a flag, because then he's already established his ruling, and isn't forced to assign resources to defend it.
Limitations on free speech are in fact a very big deal.
It’s okay if they banned that book, no one was reading it anyway. It’s okay if they made it illegal to vote for XYZ person, because they’re not on the ballot this year. Do you hear yourself??
How about burning Trump flags?
Shit take.
yeah this is just not going to work because it's trying to beat a rigged game -- you don't outmaneuver, you overwhelm. one guy burning a flag is a real THEY HATE AMURKA moment; ten million is an undeniable rejection of the regime.
But the guy said he love the first amendment. Is that not better love of America than Trump?
Negative. Push every button
👆That 💯😡
Yes, they tell us not to burn it, but using it as a weapon gets you PARDONED
He was burning the flag, because Trump signed an executive order infringing on his first amendment. Trump wanted us to shrug our shoulders, and go along with him taking away a right. It doesn’t matter whether we agree or disagree with burning the flag. We must ensure all our rights are protected….
Folks need to be smart and not just reactionary. It’s not productive to shoot yourself in the foot because you’re pissed.
Do you know how an American flag is retired? We Burn It! Folks especially those who “run” our country should know more about our customs. We should be teaching patriotism I guess. I do absolutely hear what you are saying about the rakes. Perception is reality for some.
The GOP will take ANYTHING the Dems to and weave it into the outrage of the day. Take the fight to the enemy, don’t give them the opportunity to set the narrative.
Ah, so the best way to oppose Trump is not to oppose trump.
That's basically what this galaxy-brained idiot is saying.
But didn’t that guy burn the flag so he’d get arrested so he could challenge the legality of it?
What we really need are more inauthentic, passionless managers to speak in saccharine tones about whatever focus-grouped, invented buzzword ranked the least offensive. Or maybe we need is the emotion of our righteous fury to bind us in combating the undeniable evil aimed at our extinction.
Stop diligently letting the people who hate you define the battlefield, the tactics you can use, and the victory conditions. You've clevered yourself into a really stupid position.
"See, there's one of them taking up a white person's seat on the bus!" Americans shouldn't be afraid of exercising their right to protest legally by burning a flag, or waving a Mexican flag in LA, because trump might "use it against them". The alternative is "just wait for the midterms!"
Um, flag etiquette requires the burning of a worn or damaged flag. And before today’s MAGA Supreme Court, SCOTUS ruled that flag burning was protected speech. So why are we even discussing this?
It just keeps getting worse. The #Trump admin is punishing disaster response workers who are sounding the alarm on his FEMA cuts. These whistleblowers are trying to warn us about a "Katrina level" disaster and the admin is trying to silence them. #RemoveHimNow #Resist #ImpeachTheMF
So we cede the framing to them always and forever? Sure that’ll work
Autocrats tighten the belt incrementally; every time they face no resistance they advance, consolidate, and then around for the next point of weakness. If you wait and “keep your powder dry for the big fight”, you’ll wake up to a gestapo raid in the middle of the night without ever having fought.
This is why the French riot at the slightest hit that a government is trying to get more power; they know you won’t get a chance later.
This is why people should the confederate flag which is this 🍊 🤡 administration real flag.
I am down for that
What should we do when they make protesting illegal?
Nation wide strike
I believe the point is not to be easily baited.. Burn 🔥 Trump flags, MAGA hats or any friggin red hat, gold sneakers, Trump pics.., etc
They already think we “hate America”, flag burning or no. It is deep within their psyche. Brainwashing. They’re trying to strip our freedoms, bit by bit. Standing up for what’s right is the only way to fight back against the fascists.We can’t make them hate us any more than they already do.
Over and over, that’s been labeled free speech. The next thing will be anyone who mentions the idea of the “attempt” having been faked will be punished. Then anyone who says Biden didn’t steal the election in ‘20. Then anyone who says anything negative about the felon at all. Where do we say ENOUGH?
It's Reverse-Psychology, exploiting *Emotional Compulsion to get some1 to (do the opposite of what you say but does what you want) *It's Emotional Compromise / Compromise & LACK of LOGICAL REASONING / CRITICAL THINKING!😩 That's also how it resulted in the 1st Dark Era (2016-2020) & Now this Shit.
Burn the flag, don’t burn the flag, it doesn’t matter because they’re going to scream that you hate America anyway.
“They want you to resist!” No, they want us to surrender.
there's limits to this though, because at some point you're genuinely letting them control your actions and freedoms i get the idea is to be tactical/surgical about it, but you also can't control every single person
"Listen, it doesn't matter. You lose the jacket to please them, you keep it to piss them off -- either way, it's for them. That's what's weak." some mfers out here never got this basic ground truth
I think he's testing the strength of the Constitution in a very "in your face" manner. Pushing the Government charges to courts and SCOTUS is an important test.
Disagree. Constant acts of civil disobedience from we the people until there’s wall to wall coverage of the people resisting. It’s not Trump we need to wake up, it’s we the people. Show your neighbors you love your freedom of speech and that they should too.
Just because you can do something (or at least could do something until they banned it) doesn’t mean you should do it. It might titillate followers on social media, but it’s not an act of genuine resistance. General strikes, mass civil disobedience etc. are what change things, not flag-burning.
If you want people to be inspired to take steps of large scale resistance you can't be afraid or chastise people for taking smaller ones. How can you expect someone to participate in a general strike if they see people who agree with them yelling at a vet for buring a flag as a fuck you to Trump?
Because it’s just walking into traps set by Trump/Fox News so they can pretend to be hysterical. It’s giving them *exactly* what they want. What kind of resistance gives their opponent the very ammunition they’re asking for?!
Again they will do that anyway. They will find something to feed into the outrage machine no matter what. The people convinced by it are not winnable. They are lost and a waste of time worrying about. We need to inspire the uninspired, not win over idiots who eat up bullshit from right-wing media.
And how are you inspired by burning flags? I’m genuinely curious. I can understand why they burn American flags in places like Iran, but if you want to save the US from domestic tyranny, how does burning the flag inspire you to save it?
Because it was done as an act of disobedience against a fascist. In general I don't approve of flag burning, however, that doesn't mean I support expression being restricted by trying to make it against the law. Standing up against fascism is always the right thing to do.
And for the umpteenth time, EVERYTHING people who they see as an enemy will be framed as anti-American. There is no point in modifying behavior or ideas for people who operate in bad faith at every single opportunity. Fuck those people, they aren't worth worrying about.
Who said I support it being against the law? It absolutely should not be against the law. But it has *clearly* been made illegal to provoke people into doing it, so they can distract people from their unpatriotic tyranny. We’re supposed to be the clever ones. We shouldn’t walk into their traps.
Texas v. Johnson, 491 U.S. 397 (1989).When the dictator sends an unconstitutional executive order that spits in the face of precedence, it becomes an act of American patriotism to legally express your freedom of speech by burning the flag. It’s not that complicated.
Respectfully, no. Do ALL the resisting. However you want to on any given day. The big picture: freedom
But what happens in reality is the real acts of resistance get completely drowned out by faux outrage of the right wing media, with their ‘you see, they’re not real patriots’ BS. It’s been the same BS for decades, as demonstrated by Bill Hicks. youtu.be/wKCeESg9Ev8?...
I’m sorry you’re opposed to individual expressions of freedom and resistance. It’s ok to only participate in large mass protest. I support my fellow Americans’ rights to protest in theatrical, visual, comedic, musical, virtual, economical, and any other way they deem appropriate. Who am I to judge?
Where did I say not to protest? Where did I not say mock them, drag them, scream at them? What I said was don't walk into the trap. I literally have helped organize four protests this year. But start understanding this is a messaging war.
I’m a regular person. I don’t care what the media thinks. I care that my neighbors need to wake up and realize that their freedoms are being chipped away at every day. I’m proud of this Vet for purposefully burning the flag and expressing his first amendment rights.
I know him. I assure you I know his courage and intentions just fine. I am a veteran too. Please...tell me more.
This is a great deal more than a messaging war. Just ask any family who has had a member dragged out a car and beaten, sent to another country he or she has no relation to. That’s evil and cruelty and beyond messaging. Remember that when you’re organizing your “counter message” protest.
This is the real shit right here.
Absolutely. It's a very difficult problem to tackle.
I disagree. I had thought about doing it myself. It's important to spot-check the rights you still have. Dare someone to come tell me, you, or him that we hate America. Fucking bring it!
Those who need this message will never see this message.
Burn all the MAGA crapola.
An unexercised right eventually withers away to nothing. There is no right to fight for here if the citizenry preemptively decides to forgo that right in the face of an assault on it👍 tile.loc.gov/storage-serv...
Hell no.
Well said.
I disagree. I think we're way past the point that it matters one scintilla if we react or don't react to the stupid ass shit that falls out of FOTUS' face hole. Maybe instead of avoiding 'rakes', we need to stop giving a shit about what the weirdos say. Because they're going say it no matter what.
So just give in. Got it. Thanks.
I disagree. Go nuclear. I say flip the rakes up with your toes. Spin them in your hands. Then throw the rakes in their fucking faces. In other words, burn ALL the flags you can find, and record it. Flood the zone. Their heads will explode, and there won’t be a damn thing they can do about it.
He did this on purpose to challenge the illegality of Trump’s EO. It’s a deliberate strategy
I'm well aware. I know him. Everyone knows its illegal. You're missing the point entirely. What Trump wanted was video footage of people burning flags.
Trump raped children.
