The US has come close thanks to the artificial constraints of the debt ceiling. Also, the US doesn't have a $20 trillion deficit. For FY25, the deficit is about $2 trillion. Deficits are annual. Debts are cumulative. Debt ≠ deficit

I'll get back to you. I'm having some Macallan 20 atm.

Ok, picking up where we left off. Let's establish a baseline. Would you agree or disagree that the U.S. government doesn't need tax dollars in order to spend?

Disagree. No revenue means no spending. No one will buy debt if there is no revenue to pay it back. So money has to come in from SOMEWHERE. Just declaring a debt to be zero will only further erode full faith and trust.

"Revenue" is a tricky and stupid word in government spending.

Accounting and economics have the words they have. Revenue/income is money that comes in. Outlays/spending is money that goes out.

Where is the "somewhere"? Do you think we're selling commodities to other countries and taking their wealth to add it to our own?

We sell debt to other countries, who give us some of their dollars that they hold on their own balance sheets and we add them to ours.

We add obligations to balance sheets not actual numbers

We literally record numbers on balance sheets to show what is owed and to whome.

It's fucking numbers on a spreadsheet....

Yes, and those numbers represent the valuation applied to the currency which is backed by the full faith and credit of the US.

There is no "goddamn thing" that is owed to somebody...

If you are talking about a physical transfer of something like paper or metal coins or gold bars, no. But insofar as the economic systems of the world work, yes, we owe them the dollars they spent on our securities.

I know, which circles back to my entire point.

BTW, foreign dollars are essentially worthless...

What "foreign dollar" would that be? Debt purchases are in American dollars.

Sorry once again, this has gone off the rails long enough that it's cutting into my Macallan time...let's reschedule.

Oh lord, you'r introducing foreign debt into the debate...Let's take a moment. How does the U.S. government meet it's financial obligations primarily?

I said nothing about foreign debt. I said US debt. Foreign countries (among other buyers) purchase US debt. The US government meets its obligations through payment of its debts. That payment comes as a result of tax revenue (or borrowing).

You literally just said we sell debt to foreign countries...that's foreign debt ffs.

No, foreign debt is debt of other countries that the US holds.

So you think the government can't print money to pay it's debts?

Money backed by what? The money of the US is backed by "full faith and confidence" that debts will be paid. The US dollar is supported by trust the the US government and country will survive and thrive.

Our money is backed by our GDP.

Nope. It's backed by "full faith and credit". The US is bound by its constitutional law to pay debts. That's the "credit" part. The "faith" comes in that the US will do the same thing tomorrow as it does today. It's all about trust. GDPs go up or down but the US remains a safe bastion for debt.

The credit part means we will continue to grow our GDP.

No, it doesn't. It is literally because we are bound by laws to pay our debts.