Absolutely nothing in this article: Jeremy Corbyn is not going to bring the UK into Europe even if he could win power, which he can't. But this is a banger of a quote from @lizwebster.bsky.social. Needs to be repeated and repeated. www.thelondoneconomi...
The final line says it perfectly “We need one that’s brave enough to fix it” It’s truly bizarre that all political parties are trying to find excuses not to be brave and face the facts Every word of support for Europe has to be accompanied by a caveat just to ensure they don’t actually commit
Exactly. We can do without half-hearted self-interest
They are all terrified of Farage. In a sane world, all the other parties would turn their ire on him for the Brexit disaster he facilitated.
The UK is so not joining the EU if this is the plan.
"Jeremy Corbyn is not going to bring the UK into Europe" Oh I love the utter certainty with which some make such statements. The party decides policy, not him, we will just have to wait and see what it decides.
I remember so many "experts" opining he was finished, done, a relic, and yet here he is 2 years later with over half a million rallying to the party. Clearly they were spectacularly wrong then and I suspect they will be wrong again now.
I prefer Corbyn over Starmer's Reform light Labour Party but... in essence Corbyn is a Lexiter & unionist. His Remain vote if true isn't worth much & on Scottish independence he's as big a flip flopper as Starmer in general.
Yep, that quote is the reason I couldn't support Labour at the last election. I'll never give my vote to a party that doesn't run on a rejoin platform. I won't choose between different flavours of Brexit. They all taste bad.
Agreed.
I think it's a cynical attempt to attract disappointed remain voters from Starmer. Plenty of remain Messanges in the build up to the election then damn all when elected. Corbyn was as responsible for the referendum results as the rest.
Corbyn did not organise the Referendum. He wasn't in charge of the Labour Remain campaign, but campaigned for Remain, & delivered a greater proportion of his party's votes to Remain than even the LDs. He was in a minority party throughout the Brexit negotiations. "As responsible" how?
I wouldn't call what Corbyn did "campaigning for remain". He was forced to and he did even less of the strict minimum.
Corbyn’s «campaign» for Remain was a pathetic sham, he couldn’t wait to trigger the Article 55 to leave despite there being zero plan for how to do it and the obvious damage it would do, he’s as responsible as the Tories…
And again, Corbyn was in control of precisely zero of the decisions that led to Brexit, so “as responsible” as those who did take the decisions how, exactly?
Schroedinger’s Corbyn, leader of the opposition while being in control of zero…🤦♂️
Corby was in control of the Labour and whipped for the Article 55 vote, he was in control of Labour for the blocking of a 2nd referendum on the actual terms of Brexit, he helped the Tories suppress the investigation of the Russian interference, he was complicit in it all…🤷♂️
If you don’t even know it was Article 50, how seriously should anyone take you? Tell me, if Corbyn had done the opposite, the outcome would have changed how, precisely? And how did he “help the Tories suppress the investigation of Russian interference”? That’s a new smear to me.
Let's not forget a second referendum was in the 2019 manifesto
You mean when it was all done and dusted and no chance of being acted on?
You said he blocked it, that's in fact not true. To say nothing of the fact that a second referendum would have lost worse than the first. Tory voters delivered Brexit, the Tories wanted the referendum. Why are you tilting at windmills blaming anyone else?
Corbyn shifted on the 2nd referendum over time, and in the end preferred to push for an election, which disastrously turned into a choice between him & Johnson rather than about Brexit…🤷♂️ www.channel4.com/news/factche...
Correct, article 50, time has flown. ☺️Show me one time that Corbyn called for the release of the Russian report ?
OK. “Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has also demanded its publication, questioning what the government "has got to hide".” news.sky.com/story/russia...
OK, I eat my words, better late than never, though it says a lot that Grieve was seen to be leading this, not the official leader of the opposition, and Corbyn wasn’t exactly calling for its release…
What I like about this place is that people will sometimes acknowledge they were wrong. I’ve had to do it myself. Thank you for that. I think Grieve being seen to lead on the issue is more down to how the media chose to frame it than any objective reality, but we’ll have to agree to differ on that.
Corbyn was the only person on the Remain side talking to us like we were adults. The lies and hyperbole from the official Remain campaign were almost as bad as those from the Leave campaign, and seriously alienated me.
I presume your “couldn’t wait” comment refers to him explaining in simple factual terms to a journalist what would happen next.
It’s really telling that even after all this time, the Establishment and its supporters can’t help but continue their campaign of lies against Corbyn even while claiming he is irrelevant. Rent free.
What confuses me with Liz is how she switched rather dramatically from supporting the LDs to supporting Labour at the last GE. She became another Labour cheerleader trying to convince pro-EU voters that Labour was really pro-EU in spite of their pro-brexit policies and statements.
Yes, she's had more parties than Elton John (she's currently a member of the Rejoin Party. But the quote is good. Like it or not, there is no save harbour for UK farming outside of Europe
Jeremy Corbyn voted leave in 1975; voted against Maastricht in 1993; voted against the Lisbon Treaty in 2008; voted against the creation of the EU’s diplomatic service in 2010; voted for a referendum on membership in 2011; opposed the creation of the European Stability Mechanism. Take us back in???
A fair summary
Corbyn during the brexit referendum was lukewarm about the EU at best.
Pictures are meaningless, I heard him speak and he was unenthusiastic.
On a TV interview shortly before the poll he said that he was about “seven, seven and a half out of ten for remain.” I winced. Alan Johnson who ran the Labour remain campaign complained about a lack of collaboration and obstruction from the leader’s office.
He went on holiday for a week at the crucial point of the campaign and rarely campaigned throughout. The day after the referendum he called for submitting article 50 immediately, so that we could leave as soon as possible (a suicidal proposal).
But, we should not be surprised. He is a lifelong Bennite, whose alternative economic strategy proposed withdrawing from the EU and a programme of protectionism. The 1983 Labour manifesto promised to leave without a referendum.
He never changed his opinion. His convictions were compromised by the leadership of a party that was by then overwhelmingly pro EU. His campaign reflected this clash.
Now we know what he’s about. He’s about Jeremy Corbyn.
Let Johnson off the ropes when he turned down vote of no confidence. Hence this mess.
Opposed to support a new referendum after negotiating a trade deal with EU.
65% of Labour voters opposed Brexit, so did 70% of LibDem voters. Labour leadership sat on the fence. It was not ‘pro-Brexit’ any more than it was ‘pro-EU’.
Was that the "three red lines, not in my lifetime" fence Labour sat on?
"With Labour, Britain will stay outside of the EU." Seems fairly non-fence~y in their manifesto.
Not much fence sitting there.
Labour at the last GE = pro-brexit. Labour now elected = pro-brexit.
I think the hopium of ming vase/4-4D-chess scrambled quite a few brains.
A mix of hopium (Liz) and liars trying to convince pro-EU voters to vote Labour because ming vase / 4D chess.
I had any number of Labour supporters tell me Starmer would 180 once elected, etc. Basically telling me he was lying through his teeth to the electorate, yet when called on this and asked if they really supported who they believed to be a liar and a traitor to democracy: Silence - or a block.
He did 180 once elected. As Labour leader. On many things. Hoofing Dodds as shadow CX was a mahoosive red flag. No going back to 10 pledges Keir after that. I could've written the 2024 manifesto cos I'd been paying attention. This is what he is. "My changed Labour!"
I guess technically, you're right, which, as we all know, is the best kind of right...
To be fair. The 2024 UK election was a massive exercise in tactical voting in a desperate push to Get Out the Tories. Many of us - even me - had to hold our noses and vote for someone we didn't really want to win. (I voted for Starmer. That turned out to be a bigger mistake than expected.)
Turns out not holding your nose and trying to stay true to your anti-Brexit/join stance by voting LD turned into a disappointment, too. Cf: recent LD 90/180d idiocy and continued EU bashfulness
I've lost faith completely. We're stuck in a country doomed to be a backwater because it suits our politicians to have more personal power in a diminished state. They'll keep promising nirvana and keep failing to deliver, brexit guarantees that.
Well, yeah - that's why I emigrated. Not going to give up entirely, got family, but I've made sure that if politicians and the electorate refuse to come to their senses, I won't be in the line of fire of what follows. In times of hardship, presence of mind is good, but absence of body is better.
Discussed this with Mrs Eoin yesterday. Seeing family (kids) is the only reason to stay.
My remaining close family have already left, so I only have family on the level of cousins, and friends, left in the UK. So the choice wasn't too hard.
On a side note, Liz Labour were trying steal all farmers' land and sell it America - a stance she allied herself with Farage over. She's utterly crazy.
Liz is pro-farmer. That's it.
She's a crazy conspiracy nutter. I would have thought she would get on well with Corbyn.
Corbyn is about as likely to support rejoining as a pig is likely to suddenly gain the power of flight.
That's why I didn't vote for Jeremy when he was leader of the Labour Party ' Ill never voter for any Feck that's a Brexiteer or anti EU ' ¡ And Im a Irish ¡
Corbyn supported Brexit He will not bring the UK to the EU Never He voted for Brexit
www.channel4.com/news/factche...
I agree that Corbyn can stand in front of a conveniently placed poster with the best of them.
Corbyn has been critical of EU all his career When he had a chance to vote against article 50 trigger he did not He kept a very hypocritical position blaming on the Tories not to be able to deliver more while going along A hypocrite www.theguardian.com/politics/201...
Well exactly. If you try to find examples of anything positive he had to say, you will draw a blank.
Put it this way, you would expect to see the "zeal of the convert" if he had genuinely changed his mind, but St Jeremiah Avuncular of the Holey Wellies of Islington allotments has yet to go to Damascus.
And on the original claims that "Corbyn supported Brexit [...] He voted for Brexit"? Clue: x.com/jeremycorbyn...
Can I just remind you that nobody knows how anybody voted in the booth. The point is for the ballot to be secret. If there are conflicting reports of how somebody voted, that's more concerning than if they say they voted Leave and changed their mind.
I presume you vote Reform then.
You only have my word to tell you I have never voted Reform or Tory. And I only have your word that you didn't vote UKIP. That's the point.
I believe you when you tell me You decide someone is lying.
Can I just remind you that neither you nor @mlco.bsky.social have presented any "conflicting reports"; @mlco.bsky.social made claims without evidence, and when @tg42birder.bsky.social and I looked for evidence we found evidence against @mlco.bsky.social's claims.
There's no evidence of what any politicians voted. That's the nature of a secret ballot. Otoh, Diane Abbot did say that Jeremy is a leaver in his heart of hearts. I'd say that position as a leader transcends whether or not he counted 1 vote towards Remain.
In that same interview Abbott (not "Abbot", put some respect on her name) says Corbyn would've voted Remain. Anyway, I'm not looking to hold a debate on the secrecy or importance of the ballot, a never-ending philosophical exercise, but to address questions of fact like: did Corbyn vote Leave?
Absolutely nothing in Corbyn's record in politics indicates that he'd lead a drive for the UK to rejoin the EU, quite the opposite in fact. His anti-NATO attitude would l alienate key EU members, who would see a Corbyn led UK as a disruptive element in the EU. Why welcome that in?
Yes. He's basically pro-Russia, like a lot of socialists of his age. Simply not kosher these days.
It's naivety combined with obtuseness, from my pov.
Also
Oh, please. a) Russia is not a socialist state. No socialist supports it. b) He was warning against Putin when Blair and Cameron were cosying up to him. www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/jere...
Pretty much true for much of the noisy left (including Sultana). The amount of shite Mcdonnell copped for the attached was off the charts. 2 points. JM actually knows Ukrainians. Don't think he ever took the RT $, unlike JC, NF et Al. labourhub.org.uk/2023/02/21/t...
I guess the smear campaign is starting small, with the lesser lights, the cheaper hacks. No doubt keeping the big guns for when Corbyn really starts to cut through.
Anybody who thinks Corbyn will do anything to fix Brexit is delusional, he obviously had a hand in architecting the current debacle and is clearly loving it…🤨
This is why Scotland MUST get independence, not 1 party in WM will go bk. It's imperative we get out of this mess or we'll be destroyed.
Oh look, it’s Schroedinger’s Corbyn again, completely powerless, and yet personally responsible for every ill visited on this country.
Collectively responsible, Corbyn has his part in it.
Mmmmm?, I'm not a supporter of him or any WM party, but he didn't stand a chance, 1 with the press and MSM, then Starmer stabbing him in the bk.
I was a lifelong card carrying Labour supporter until Corbyn. The final straw for me was when he banned discussion on Brexit at the party conference. Certainly he was an easy target for the press, but Labour shot themselves in the foot by making him leader…
Yip and now Starmer, I did vote Labour untill '08' then I was done. I thought Andy Burnham might have done it, then the wrong Milliband got in. 🤔.
Starmer I’ve been trying to keep an open mind but he seems to be leading Labour on the road to nowhere and doesn’t have the courage to address the real issues…
That and supporting a live-streamed genocide.
I agree.
His complicity in torture would have done for him - along with that photo of him with the banana.
Ohhh I missed the banana 🍌 one.
Makes a change from bacon sandwiches…
😂😂
As an American I don't understand how Corbyn, Labour or any other party won't rejoin the EU...Brexit was a huge mistake and most people realize it by now. It'd be a winning platform.
I agree. And it ties the other parties to Brexit, Trump, Putin, the invasion of Ukraine, and anti-democratic activities
That's the most compelling argument against brexit - it should be obvious to everyone that brexit was profoundly undemocratic, and whoever rolls out "democracy" in defence of it, is either dishonest or unlearned.
I do claim to know who was for or against other than the right definitely for Brexit. But it created a mess and everyone knows this yet the parties seem hesitant to try and return which seems like a winning strategy
I think that what's very confusing in British politics is that the party who claims to be on political left never really was, despite introducing some leftist policies over the course of its existence. The main premise of the left is that everyone is equal. This is never true in a monarchy.
The fact that hereditary monarchy, propped by aristocracy in the HOL, has some say in running the country, precludes the country from being democratic, but what's worse, it allows for a degree of bias even in most clear thinking individuals. What's worse, it makes all "leftist" policies a sham.
* I meant I don't claim to know...yeesh!
Given you're an American, if I were you I wouldn't take seriously anyone who says to you Corbyn was a Brexiteer. It all flowed from a discredited politician, a leader of a (then) minor party who lost her seat in the 2019 election. Dislike of Corbyn is largely... evolvepolitics.com/jo-swinson-f...
... irrational and flows from mischievous campaigning against him on the part of rival politicians and the gutter media. If you go back to the rhetoric around the 2019 election, you'll find (some) remainers (inclined to swallow the nonsense) believed him to be a Brexiteer, while Brexiteers...
... themselves were being told that Corbyn was out to deny the will of the people and wreck Brexit altogether. That Corbyn has a history of wariness of the EU is undeniable, but that wariness arises from Corbyn being too far left of European centrism for comfort. (It's a wariness you'll find...
... with nations following the Nordic model, the EFTA grouping, (Switzerland aside), who keep the EU at arms length, either being outside it altogether or in it with numerous caveats and opt-outs. On the right, European centrism constrains neoliberal or post-neoliberal market regulation and the...
... like, and they too are cynical. It's that cynicism that motivated Brexit. In 2015, the Tories won the election and so, in 2016, they still had four years of an administration left to them. For any Lexiteer, (a Brexit advocate of the left), to have campaigned for the UK to leave the EU and...
... hand Britain over to be remodelled by the right to bring about 'Singapore-on-Thames' would have been ridiculous. Unfortunately, the anticorbyn diehards can't work that out for themselves and will keep pointing to Corbyn's Lexiteer reservations as proof he was MIA on the Brexit campaign. In...
... all honesty, when it comes to ANYTHING you read, see or hear about Corbyn, I'd strongly recommend doing your own research from very reliable sources rather than going on hearsay.
Thanks to @brobof.bsky.social who unearthed this. It provides a good summary of what Corbyn actually said to show you how he positioned himself - unambiguously to campaign in 2016 for 'remain'. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-poli...
Blushes...
So much of a winning platform that the 'Rejoin EU Party' managed to poll less than 10,000 votes in total across all the 26 constituencies they stood in. As the official record shows 0.0% of the votes cast. Even 'The Yorkshire Party' managed to poll 0.1% 😂
Is that really the name of the party? Polls show a majority would return...it would be different if a major party had this as part of their platform, not their sole reason for existing.
Polls are mixed. Some show as low as 37% supporting Rejoining and lots of undecided. The key issue and why it is not seriously in any of the majority Party's plans is that it is not a major concern for voters any more. Polling does show it is one of the lowest scoring issues for UK voters (Yougov)🤔
It's politically toxic. You still clowns like Nigel Farrage, with polls showing upto 30% would vote for his party. Even the slightest hint of reproachment towards the EU us framed as a betrayal and re-opens the same faux "debate" that's equally free of facts.
This is all fuelled by a disingenuous media & a political class that are only out for themselves, supported by a low information apathetic electorate. All problems are unsolvable and somebody else's fault. Nothing can be done, don't mention the past, sit down and be quiet.
It's what a century plus of disenfranchisement of often >50% of the electorate, despite them being told they have the vote and live in a democracy will do. The apathy is by design.
Corbyn because of the dream of socialism in one country, most people because nationalism is emotional and irrational.
UK tried twice to join the EU but got vetoed by DeGaulle. He knew that UK was not interested in the EU ideals. UK became a member, he was proved right. UK has never embraced the ideals, just trade benefits. Until the UK rids itself of UK colonialism it will always be one foot in and one foot out.
And what did he say to Corbyn. We're all dying to know how he persuaded Corbyn to sabotage the UKs EU membership and take us out by posing as a Remainer. That's where this is going, right?
Corbyn is a russian asset. Good luck if at some point he wins power.
🤣🤣🤣https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/jeremy-corbyn-was-right-about-putin-from-the-start/
And you think Starmers not in Netanyahu pockets ?, he's also in the pocket of the globalists .
I don't care about Starmers, Johnson and any whataboutism. I care about Corbyn (the subject of this thread) being a russian asset and imperialists / dictatorship simp / bootlicker.
Ohhh get you...... you don't care, you should.
Starmers plan to sell the UK to Putin?
Boris literally took Russian money openly and put a KGB agent’s son in the House of Lords. Corbyn Derangement Syndrome is a sad condition.
Corbyn is an asset, Boris is an agent. There's an important difference, but not necessarily a huge distinction.
That fire’s not got much fuel.
If you say so -oh wait, didn't he work for RT? You know, same guys who notoriously paid both Farage and more recently, those youtubers spewing Russian talking points and anti-Ukraine propaganda and falsehoods in the lead-up to the 2024 US election? Though I believe him to "only" be a useful idiot.
Your post reminds me of MAGAts and their "tRump DerAnGEMent SynDrOME". We know the result.
Corbyn enabled and supported Brexit. He couldn’t wait to demand Article 5 after the referendum.
