(Note, Mr Draghi was not at all taking about Euro-UK relations) It's urgent in the UK too. The best ways to fight populist-fascism in the UK would be to reinforce human rights; distance the UK from anti-European actors; back 🇪🇺in🇺🇦; and drop the redlines and apply to our institutions 2
So should the UK move quickly like he asks? Mr Andreou is more equivocal. Apparently we shouldn't criticise (Labour, others) for wanting to move slowly in fighting populism. (NB UKG has *no* plans to move to Europe's institutions) And the "why" as to the UK's apparent lack of expedition? 3
Firstly, Mr Andreou says the UK hasn't been asked to by Europe. Well, yes. As @philsbodydouble.bsky.social points out, if you want Europe's opinion, you apply. (I would be confident the answer wouldn't be no) 4
Then he says the UK can't do this unilaterally Correct. It can apply. Or it can announce it wants that as a goal. Or it could even ask about a single-market relationship like third-pillar EEA. Or it can continue as now with Farage setting the agenda and Britons not being European citizens. 5
Then Mr Andreou says the time isn't right, because, you know, somebody might veto it. Well, yeah, that's right. You apply. You might get through. You might not. That's the process that everyone else goes through. (the UK is powerful with a huge diplomatic corps. It's well able for this) 6
Really, it seems that when it comes to fighting actual fascism, they're prepared to do anything. Except suffer the lèse-majesté of an actual application. While the UK waits to be invited, fascism creeps on. The original point by Naomi was that Europe needs to expedite negotiations. 7
There is nothing that fascists across Europe would like more that for us to follow Best for Britain's plans and give the UK the benefits of membership without obligations. Then they can turn to voters and say, see, we don't need 🇪🇺 Best go through the institutions 8 @nmwilkinson.bsky.social
It would amount to rewarding Brexit. Britons want to be European citizens, they want to trade freely across the continent, and they want to have the protections of European law. The time to deal with that is now. 9 @edwinhayward
Anyhow, Alex has asked me not to tag him. Fine. Here's the thread he asked for I know this thread will annoy many of you. Alex is a gem, righteous and generous of spirit. I just don't agree at all with this position. It is up to the UK to move. 10
He was the original post. 👇 As I say, the UK would be a valued member if it joined like everyone else and looked to contribute. I know that the destructive status quo outside Europe does not suit you at all and you're ready to change today. Ends bsky.app/profile/nial...
Tying himself in knots trying to justify the comments, rather than just acknowledging that they might possibly come across as being exceptionalism Breathtaking arrogance
Perhaps the issue bsky.app/profile/tama...
With apologies to @dawnbritten.bsky.social
Britons ARE European citizens but not EU citizens. It is important to make that distinction.
erm. the distinction is britons are non-EU nationals now Simona. Because of brexit they have to undergo full SCHENGEN checks. I get Eurostar a lot and am tired of hearing "they're just punishing us" in the crazy EU schengen queues post brexit at St Pancras...because brits are non-EU nationals now.
That is what I said except I used EU citizens and yes they have to undergo those checks. Still Britons are Europeans as born in the continent of Europe. The choice to leave the UK was that of the voters, they can cling to their idiocy about punishment. It’s what, sadly, it means being a 3rd country.
I like the BfB folks, but it sometimes feels like a "defend Labour brexitism" effort, and this kind of strawmanning (instead of addressing) opposing arguments only strengthens the impression of partisanship as policy 🧐 bsky.app/profile/nmwi...
Yeah, it's a pity, because they are right on so much. But they're adulterating their pro-European credentials in a major way.
Yeah. Undermines the "let's all stick together" message too, when sticking together actually means "shut up and do what you're told, whilst we mischaracterise your arguments"
Veyr much so. Alex simply Was unable to rebut any of the points made. Poor, in truth.
(in order to ridicule them)
what a strange thread. Niall was called out by Alex for cherry picking 2 sentences from the entire podcast to single out @pimlicat.bsky.social and bully her. As a result, that Pro EU B4B group is "pro brexit" now - Is that right? Good job Niall didn't support Labours reset summit stance, eh?
Which thread? No, am saying BfB acts like a Brexitist Labour defence league, and has for years now. AA posted a page of text, ostensibly to show Niall was cherry picking. But on my reading, it showed the opposite. But of course, AA didn't want to talk about it. See👇🏻 bsky.app/profile/nmwi...
It was just another "something something...british exceptionalism" thread from Niall that cherry picked 2 sentences from @pimlicat.bsky.social I'm not going to repeat the discussion. I can see you were part of it. I listened to the same podcast and agree with Alex. It is a form of bullying.
Are you bullying Niall now?
Interesting. So the Pro EU group, B4B, is pro brexit now...and now I'm bullying Niall for flagging up Niall got called out for bullying @pimlicat.bsky.social. is that the general gist?
How is what Niall did to pimlicat more bullying than what you are doing to Niall? Also, what are you trying to achieve in this convo with me right now?
Or take note that Scotland has been 'rolling the pitch' since we were dragged out of EU. There have been many sympathetic declarations of support.
The biggest issue will always be that the UK and the EU have different ideas of what joining should look like. A majority in the UK support rejoining if the UK has its old opt-outs – without them, support drops considerably. The reverse is true in the EU – support is high for the UK joining
I'd be confident that the British public would support Europe fully were it explained. But either way, there are other solutions. A UK using European standards by law would be so exposed to the US and so forth, and wouldn't be in such peril from its lack of a fixed constitution
I'd like to think that was the case, but lack your confidence
It's not the UK though, is it? You really mean engerland. Scots (62%), NI (56%) and Gibraltar (97%) voted remain in 2016 and that pro EU sentiment has increased since. In Wales too, I suspect. Not sure the EU would fancy a UK gov with Farage's reform party. We already have Orban to deal with.
The survey didn't specify who the Brits were, but it's quite possible that at least some who voted remain in Scot meant under the arrangement the UK had. Less so in NI/Gib prob, given their different situations
falklanders would have voted remain too, if given the chance.
if you're referring to the yougov poll in July, yes it did. Total GB support for re-joining the EU is now 54% according to that poll of 2005 adults in britain. Scotland 66% Wales 53% and england 54% ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/In...
OK, but the bit you haven't highlighted in your screenshot is that even Scotland doesn't have a majority choosing EU membership with Euro and Schengen, only 48%. It doesn't change the fact that the majority of the UK – England, Wales & Scotland – only want to rejoin the EU with previous opt outs
that's not correct. It's britain - not the UK: NI was not included in the poll. Neither was Gibraltar who voted 97% remain in 2016. Don't forget that over 62% of Scots voted remain in 2016. Their only chance of that now is to go Independent. they would happily join the EURO. GBP£ has crashed.
England, Scotland and Wales are the majority of the UK, NI and Gibraltar are too small in terms of population. It doesn't matter how Scotland voted in 2016, the majority don't want to rejoin with the Euro and Schengen now.
The UK is a union of three countries and a region (NI), along with lots of overseas territories. Post brexit: - NI still in the EU SM for goods. - Gibraltar in EU CU & Schengen. - Scotland are leaning towards joining EU as an indy Scotland if NI completely leaves the Act of UK union 1801 ends.
For what it's worth, you don't have to convince me that joining the EU fully is the right thing for the UK. I am a Brit living in the EU and think Brexit was the most idiotic thing a country has chosen to do to itself. It doesn't change the fact that the majority population of the UK doesn't want to
without opt-outs, but drops considerably if opt-outs are included. (should have said citizens of the UK and the EU) parliamentnews.co.uk/54-of-brits-...
The big problem isn't that "these guys" didn't find "a slower pace more prudent" it's that they decided this *Despicable/God Awful* Labour government being in power was more important than literally anything else.
As far as I’m concerned (in my own admittance of ignorance), right now most Starmer government fuelled ‘appeasements’ with the far right have their origins in the US and this Trump administration. Maybe even EU hesitancy too (dunno). But Starmer IS an enabler without a shadow of a doubt. A coward!
I happened to listen to that episode, I’m an occasional listener. But where this ended up seems strange to me. We know Starmer is not going to apply to join. Nor make a customs union or anything else. As UK PM he should fight Farage politically on Brexit, ECHR, racism. He should also get some
… radical constitutional reform in place to protect Britain from dictatorship. The front door is open.
Agree with this. The easiest way for UKG to make fundamental changes would be the constitution, security of elections, and voting reform. Clamping down on disinformation would also be useful.