The Holocaust was BRUTAL, but it was short lived. Many cultures were severely impacted by it, but were able to recover. But the Ukrainians? They will never be the same. The people of the Caucasus, and Georgia? Even worse off. Western Europe recovered from Nazism, because it didn't last.
Shit Mate, wait til you hear about the British empire.
I did, actually. They lasted even longer than the soviets, and had a huge impact on the world as we know it.
Love that language “huge impact”- huh in what way? I’m sure you think it’s positive looking at what you’ve been saying. Something like 100million Indians died from famine under the Raj. That’s in India alone mate.
The thing that "lasted" from the Soviets that did all that damage is authoritarianism and petty bureaucrats who should have been aborted being given too much power. And lemme tell you, that's not unique to Communism.
You think I don't know that? Finland has educated me thoroughly on the brutality of previous authoritarian regimes. It ain't pretty. Imperial japan did the kinds of things that give any sane man nightmares. BUT THEY DID NOT LAST. The Soviets were subtle, and now their former states are worse off.
Wait, you live in (/are from) Finland? And you still think socialism is worse than the Holocaust? Really painting a full picture of exactly where you sit, ain't ya?
Because Finland isn't freaking socialist, you idiot. It is social democracy, with a constitution based on the German one. You know, the one written SPECIFICALLY to prevent Nazis and other extremists from getting into power? That one.
Really fucking strong socialist policies and multiple socialist parties, tho. But sure, keep splitting those hairs so you can deny the Holocaust
For fuck's sake, I am not denying the Holocaust. It was terrible, but it didn't last because everyone united against the Nazis, a move which probably saved the cultures that were attacked by them. But the communists were fucking subtle. And the cultures of Georgia, and Ukraine? Forever changed.
Saying that communism was worse than the Holocaust is Holocaust denial
Would you rather be stabbed once in the lung and then immediately rush to the hospital? Or be abused over the course of decades, bruised and broken? Which would be more traumatic? Communism did more total damage because it was freaking subtle. And metaphorical doctor did not do anything to stop it.
And again, it wasn't communism that did that, it was authoritarianism.
Fine, authoritarian application of socialist principles.
Well, having been abused and broken over decades, yknow, being a weird queer autistic artist, I can say that being stabbed in the lung would be worse.
Would it? If you got to a doctor within minutes? It would hurt more at first, but it would be easier to recover from, long term, don't you think?
That’s ridiculous… the Jewish population has only recently risen to levels pre-Holocaust. The Yiddish language is severely decimated, and various cultures have also been decimated (e.g. Polish Jews). Then the Romani peoples as well severely suffered… Ukrainian culture still exists and is fine.
Yep, everything’s fine. Ukraine is not under assault from Russia. Ukraine is not trying to fight the expansion of one of the most aggressive empires of history. Ukraine is not constantly under assault from enemies foreign and domestic. Ukrainian culture is perfectly “fine”.
“Worlds most aggressive empires”- there are 3 separate entities you’re mixing together: Tsarist Empire, USSR and modern Russia. Also, Russia is nowhere near the scale of American imperialism- both economic and militarily (see Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Palestine, etc).
Ukrainian culture is nowhere near under the same threat as the Holocaust. You can call something bad a refrain from doing Holocaust revisionism you do realise this?
Edit: as what Jewish, Roma, Polish, Russian,etc culture was under/during the holocaust*
I never said the Holocaust wasn’t bad. For the love of all that is holy, stop fixating on the Holocaust. It is done. It is over. But the effects of it are not as expansive or long term as the effects of the Soviets.
Telling people to get over the Holocaust is what a Nazi would say mate. You aren’t contending with my points, youre adhering to Nazi talking points… and then just repeating them as though they’re self-evident…
My point isn’t that the Holocaust wasn’t bad, just that it’s not the only genocide in history. The Soviets committed genocide as well. In one instance known as the Holodomor, about 5 million Ukrainians died of famine, likely deliberately created by Stalin to eliminate opposition.
Show conclusive evidence of it being deliberate historians have been looking it for ages. There is less evidence to suggest it was “deliberate” than to suggest it was unintentional; considering Kazakhs and Russians died (in the case of Kazakhs a higher proportion of their population died aswell)
Also it wasn’t 5million Ukrainians… it was between 1-2million and the famine had total deaths amounting to approx.3-3.5million depending on whose estimates (use Wheatcroft and Davies!) If you want watch BadEmpanada’s video on the matter…
(Or read Wheatcroft and Davies!!!)
Total death toll no less than 5.5 million deaths in the broader famine, and at least 3.3 million of those were ethnic Ukrainians. Regarding whether it was a genocide, scholar Raphael Lemkin, who coined the term “genocide”, states that it was genocide, and an experiment in Russification.
Yep sorry my bad about the death figures I should’ve reread Wheatcroft and Davies section before I wrote, yes it was 5.5million and around 3million Ukrainians.
Lemkin never delved deep into the topic, he lived in a time where he had no access to Soviet archives, so it was the assumption this was the case; I suggest you watch the BE video from 23:33 onwards… Lemkin didn’t study Holodomr specifically; it was a passing comment and it was before the Soviet/
Read Wheatcroft and Davies bro…
I know the Nazis were bad, I merely note that because their particular threat was obvious, they were stopped. And their extremism is not the only extremism. I don’t like extremists. No matter the form. If you want to call me extremist for being against your form of extremism, that’s on you.