Notably missing: Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Columbia. Kind of mindblowing to me given what the substance of this letter is: "government should not retaliate against law firms"
Notably missing: Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Columbia. Kind of mindblowing to me given what the substance of this letter is: "government should not retaliate against law firms"
Maybe I'll ask the dean at Harvard what's up.
www.thecrimson.com/article/2024...
I see this as a little different but you’re probably right.
That new policy is about official administration statements, though, right? The law deans’ letter explicitly says they each speak for themselves, not their institutions. Though of course it’s not actually possible to draw the distinction that clearly, & this conversation shows affiliation matters.
The policies differ a bit from school to school, but generally they apply to heads of departments and deans even when speaking “on their own behalf” if they identify themselves by their official title. So ‘John Doe, Dean of xyz’ is different from just John Doe.
Not really a surprise since those private east coast old universities are really just large Capital investment entities masquerading as educational institutions
Clearly they’ve been brought to heel
Penn Law…where are you?
Berkeley & Georgetown are on the right side of this one!
@columbiauniversity.bsky.social @harvard.edu @stanfordpress.bsky.social I hope that anyone who was/is considering attending these schools takes a beat and ask themselves if it’s worth wasting their money.
Not surprising though since these are legacy schools with tons of elite students, elite alumnus and elite dollars flowing in
I don’t know about Columbia, but those other three have such large endowments that they should be intimidation proof.
It’s humiliating and infuriating that these institutions are missing, although I’d already written off Columbia.
Penn isn’t on there either. Most of the ivies aren’t.
Fucking cowards
I don't see University of Chicago on the list, either. Did I miss it?
I don't see Duke either. I see several UNC law schools listed.
A lot of us are deeply disappointed and they’ll be hearing from us soon.
Cowards
I will assume firms not standing in solidarity Against this regime are compromised
I wish I could say I’m surprised. I’d write, but I’m sure they give even less of a shit what a former staff member has to say.
Wealthy elite schools doing what the wealthy have done for all of recorded human history? Say it isn't so. Class war is the only war.
Disappointed to not see University of Washington. Gonzaga and SU showed up, though.
Right!?
Only one law school in Texas. There are 10.
Shame on them.
Disappointed by the absence of Michigan Law.
Ditto
Not surprised… look who Harvard and Yale produced… DeSantis and Vance. To name 2 MAGATS.
it’s not mind blowing. These folks were always who they truly served.
it does suck, however and is fucking absurd on their part.
Disappointed to not see the University of Michigan on here... I wonder if this is tied to the U's declaration last year that it was inappropriate for the University to be taking positions on 'controversial' topics.
Maybe you missed it but the heads of these schools are prohibited by school policy from taking public positions on any issues of public policy, after many were roasted by Congress and lost their jobs last year.
www.thecrimson.com/article/2024...
certainly never skipped my attention that harvard's fucking terrible
No argument here
Columbia Law (not just the dean) did sign onto a similar Democracy Forward letter defending the rule of law.
Those are the colleges that all the elite’s parents pay to get them into.
This really highlights who the brave are and who those who would sell their souls are. Harvard, Yale, Stanford and Columbia all have endowments that easily protect them and yet all cowards.
need to replace Harvard with Suffolk in the Beanpot
You know who those hoity-toity schools like to make fun of? And yet they’re standing up for what’s right while the big ones are hiding under the bed.
Happy to see Willamette University on the list, bummed UO isn't.
fascism blows
cowardice in the face of fascism also blows
more proof that graduates of elite schools have contributed to the billionaire takeover of these "brands" in their own chase after $$$ + vanity, so don't be upset when the "brand value" takes such a hit on the core substance of what used to be the foundations of higher ed
You don't get much more establishment than those places. They aren't going to fight the government. Or even make it angry if they can manage.
Lol when Harvard kids criticized prof for defending Weinstein they got like 90 signatures immediately to denounce the kids for not understanding that all people deserve an attorney (which also misrepresented their claims), but of course they now can’t rise to actual defense of infringing rights
Sadly missing Univ of Michigan Law as well. Michigan State showing courage where Michigan would not.
Well, at least my alma mater, USC, is there.
As an AZ native and someone educated by Jesuits for 16 years I'm thrilled to see my state Uni's and all the Jesuit law schools represented. Yay, LMU!
Good grief, every ALUM of those top law schools who refused to sign on should DEFINITELY - if they have a shred of conscience - be contacting these deans to demand they take a stand!! PLEASE!
Also @umichlaw.bsky.social appears to be missing... 👀👀👀
Glad my alma mater signed
Government shouldn’t retaliate against colleges and universities either.
If they can’t stand behind this, they won’t stand up for anything.
MN Law (whose Dean signed) employs Birthright Citizenship "scholar" Ilan Wurman. Should be put on admin leave and kept from teaching constitutional law to young lawyers.
Very glad to see Georgetown, my law school, on this list.
I think it says a lot about what those deans (trying to place their students in those firms) think those firms want and how they feel a statement as simple as what is in this letter would do to those changes... not good! glad my dean and former con law professor is on their though!
oh for real, I'm just kind of flabbergasted that a profession with tightly knit (and even highly regulated) professional societies cannot overcome the prisoner's dilemma to... [checks notes] prevent the president from undermine the very premise of the entire profession
Bonuses über alles
Their hope, I suppose, is to still be around when Trump and his political spawn are gone. A calculation, unmoored from larger principles.
A calculation unmoored from the reality of what is happening in your country. Trump is not going away in 4 years time, nor are the appointments he and his supporters have made. Nor is the authoritarian system being put in place.
Lawyers have a reputation for being money grubbing and that doesn’t come from nowhere. If Trump has one superpower it’s that he knows how to test the mettle of opponents who are greedy - if not as greedy - as him.
All Americans, humans really, respond to financial forces. We can call it greed when it goes past a certain degree. But nobody is immune. All the stress about inflation, housing, medical care, etc is about money. Everyone seems to want more, and when does need just become "want".
I fundamentally reject financial applies to all Americans. For you perhaps, for RW-ers perhaps. But For Artists, idealists & those of us with sensitive & creative souls we are neurologically unmotivated by financial force & I have the data on this. Even when we are working class /poor …
*motivations
… and it is why there is not a poet nor a dreamer on the right (we are not by default LEftwing tho). We are more motivated by seeking out and living by what is real and true than money. Our feelings are too strong to just take the money. The stress is there but the boundaries are clearer to us ..
Out intuition would also never allow us to think we could cut a deal with the devil unscathed. We’d have the foresight and imagination to know there is only one place that leads. This is why history, literature are essential for strengthening civic society. Bring back humanities.
If America is now transitioning toward a semi-permanent authoritarian system then the entire conversation is moot. Few institutions could withstand it for 8, 10 (whatever length we think it will be in place) years without making accommodations, or ceasing to exist. Only time will tell.
Also, where the fuck is U Chicago and Northwestern?
The ruling class sends their kids to those schools and donates $$$.
Just one more reason to stop nominating alumni of these schools to the Supreme Court.
The malice can be explained by downsizings and cuttings across govt. Defund, shut down, and divert as much government funding to their private control. Techbro fascism is his new venture. Musk, Vance, and the Yarvin enthusiasts they’ve placed into positions have big plans. youtu.be/VeVhHNSe9Ks?...
BC Law 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
The absent organizations are very carefully and deliberately telling you what they are.
Nor Chicago, Duke, Penn, UVA, NYU, Northwestern, or Michigan. Literally nobody in the top ten. The highest ranked law school to sign is Berkeley, at #12.
(not Northwestern, either)
I suspect they are trying not to harm their students’ chances of being offered SCOTUS clerkships and other prestigious jobs. The schools whose deans signed won’t have students in the running for those gigs. Lawyers are such prestige whores.
Gross.
Fu€k you, Trumptydumpty. Berkeley and its kind are endowed for CENTURIES! Unlike your mushroom cap penile endowment.
No Northwestern, NYU, Penn either! bsky.app/profile/alex...
Why would the Ivy Leagues rebel against their life's work? MAGA is an Ivy League movement.
I had a fight with Jon Levin, the dean of Stanford GSB, about him allowing Richard Hanania to speak on campus. He said the students didn't care bc they were there to get MBAs, not "fight culture wars." He's the president of all Stanford now, so very NOT surprised they are missing.
Pretty disappointing to not see @nyulaw.bsky.social on this letter either.
Those are conservative schools aren't they?
Harvard and Yale are the source of some 99% of Supreme Court justices, including the imitationd on the Roberts court.
And NYU. Not that surprising if Maria Bartiromo is still on the university Board of Trustees. 🙄🤢
No PENN either
Stanford. "Yeah, it's in the mail. Honest, but there was a dog chasing the mail man, he might have chewed it up. The Hoover boys signed it too as I recall."
Go Seattle U!
Disappointed in my alma mater, Michigan.
Those schools are notably missing because there is no war but the class war.
@pepperdine.bsky.social @olemiss.bsky.social Embarrassing yourselves with your absence.
I predict Harvard, Yale, Stanford, and Columbia will join in but will explain that their reasons for joining are even smarter.
Had me going for a second…
Capitalism trumps democracy.
Also missing: Northwestern, University of Chicago…
@sarahjeong.bsky.social wondering why my dean isn't on this
A lot of the biggest, most powerful law schools are scared shitless while smaller, more vulnerable schools are stepping up.
They also have policies preventing deans from speaking out on public policy issues. www.thecrimson.com/article/2024...
This isn't about public policy. It's about one of a law school's core issues, thus allowing them to speak out.
LOL
Happy I’d they tax those ivy endowments at 100%
UW-Madison????
We knew Columbia were cowards. The others are surprising considering their alumni.
There is a reason the lawful evil square exists.
these are all investment funds with educational tax exemptions
NYU…
Glad to see my law school on there (Dean Moberly taught my Evidence class; he's a good dude).
Cambridge has often in recent years recruited senior leadership from North America. Leaderships who failed to stand up for their institutions have fatally blotted their track records of if they ever apply for senior positions elsewhere.
While those schools do produce a few outstanding civic-minded lawyers, by and large their raison d'être is to buttress the status quo. Signing on risks their place in the establishment hierarchy.
The leading law schools aren’t leading. They aren’t even following.
UVA absent too, which is a heavyweight in law schools Prestige isn't integrity
State school. Like William & Mary. Likely instructed not to sign by the Board of Visitors.
Ah, not surprised to see no WCL on there. My mercenary law school.
Crawling around in the dark like Gollum caressing their endowments
Feel like Smaug is a better comparator tho
Curled around their hoard and snoring like Smaug
If you threaten his hoard, Smaug flies out and burns down your city, not what these deans are doing
A bunch of cowardly lions.
But it says they are expressing personal views and not speaking for their institutions. So does it matter that Harvard, Yale, Stanford and Columbia are absent?
Those schools have policies that prohibit them from speaking out www.thecrimson.com/article/2024...
Thanks for that. Still, none of the schools identified are taking an official position.
Columbia Law did. The school signed a similar letter by Democracy Forward.
Yes but we have to get our corrupt Supreme Court justices somewhere!
Thank you UCB!
I'm glad Rutgers Law School is on there. Ruth Bader Ginsburg would have been turning in her grave were it not.
The absence of Harvard, Yale, and Columbia is completely unsurprising, TBH.
stanford is not missing from these signatures
oh shit that says samford university
Yep.
Wow. Seems sort of non-controversial.
"Notably missing: Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Columbia" The spawning grounds for our "supremes" and the children of the elites? Them places? Hell, I'm a fucking intellectual snob and I find them distasteful.
www.thecrimson.com/article/2024...
My alma mater, to which I’ve not given since it gave Torture King John Yoo an endowed chair, even stepped up ahead of the renowned ivies.
I always ask the UC Berkeley fundraisers how John Yoo is doing. They don’t call as much these days.
There’s this “Founders Pledge” thing they do when they find out you’re a startup founder. You sign up to donate when you make it big. Cool, sure, whatever. I wrote in no $ until John Yoo is gone.
Yeah, I used to get the requests and send them back with the same thing written on them! They don’t even have my address now.
👊🇺🇸🔥
It must be so galling for Dean Chemerinsky to have to share a room with Yoo. If I were in his shoes, I’d invent new bullshit committees solely aimed at Yoo’s humiliation. Lots of creative opportunities there.
How about adding-For Political reasons
My alma mater is missing - The LSU Dean Hebert School of Law. Dean Hebert was a judge at Nuremberg.
Not that mind blowing look a whole their big money donors have been since Regan.
Those are the schools were most SCOTUS members come from, too. Shameful.
Stanford has feet of clay, and not even very structurally sound clay.
Stanford U said NOTHING when their faculty member Scot Atlas (radiologist with no public health background and one of trump's pets), dangerously pushed for letting COVID rage through our population.
Cowards
PENN
yup 😠
One hopes prospective students are taking notice.
Buffalo Law is on there. Ivy League schools, not so much. Public schools lead the way, not rich people schools.
Because those are rich people schools.
Notably present: Deans of LSU, North Carolina Central University, Northern Kentucky University, Universities of Kansas, North Texas at Dallas, Missouri–Kansas City, and Nebraska, UNC at Chapel Hill, and WVU––all public schools in red states, and TX & LA have especially vindictive governors
UVA & ASS–GMU should've called Youngkin's bluff (not putting that on Hampton) Vanderbilt & Duke should feel ashamed at being shown up by LSU & UNC Howard & NCCU will undoubtedly lead more HBCUs, who were undoubtedly asked Georgetown & Gonzaga are the best known out a lot of Jesuit schools
My alma mater (FIU) signed — in fucking Florida!! And this while their interim president was literally DeSantis’s lieutenant governor until a month ago. Utterly spineless on some of those non-signatories’ parts.
I guess now students know where not to go
Money stays with Money.
Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t see U of Michigan.
So many schools are missing. Looks like the smaller schools have more backbone.
maybe the ivy league schools shouldn't be freighted with so much prestige then. maybe the next liberal admin should seize or threaten their endowments and federal grants. what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
I saw Samford and thought that was Stanford. Wild. At least Berkeley and UCLA represented by signing.
Well, quite a few of the morons steering the country off a cliff right now went to Harvard and Yale…
Lots of important names missing from this list…
Never been prouder to be a Cal Alum. And Cal may be the highest ranked school on there, but there are plenty of heavy hitters on the list. If you can’t sign a letter saying the government can’t discriminate (i.e. break the law) then what do you stand for besides money and power?
Now you know where they've always stood.
California is standing firm. Just let them come and get us!
Those “ universties” re protecting the 1%class who are their donors. They don’t care about education.
It isn't that surprising. These schools pride themselves on their alums going to work at the Big Law law firms like Paul Weiss, and then they mine those alums for big donations.
Totally agree. Also, extra credit to Dean Alena Allen for modeling good, concise legal writing in her signature line
Not so notable then?
Hey, we are also notably missing! Don’t erase us. :P
I used to wonder about this kind of thing, and then I remembered Oxford University was a huge supporter of King Charles in the English Civil War, so caring about survival more than an elected government scans.
on the other hand a whole lot of Harvard alumni went back to the homeland to fight for the Roundheads
No University of Chicago and University of Michigan. There are about 10 law schools that the very top law firms recruit from and most are missing.
But Michigan State did. Good for them!
Didn’t see UCLA?
They’re there, towards the end. 👍🏼🇺🇸
Happy to see my Alma mater on the list.
The road to fascism is lined with cowards averting their eyes and trying not to be noticed. Stand in the road, not beside it. I hope all of those who give to the massive endowments held by these institutions take a close look at better places to send their money.
Well maybe they don’t want to sign because some of the worst people in the legislative and judicial branches got their degrees from…checks notes…Ivy League schools.
it's not even like, little boutique law firms trying to fight the man! it's goddamn biglaw doing normal biglaw things!
the legal profession is tightly bound by professional societies, many of which are highly regulated. the fact that the establishment cannot overcome the prisoner's dilemma to uphold rule of law is grim. rule of law is the basis of their jobs! without it, the job turns into glorified bribe broker!
...and yet they caved and said they would provide 40 mil in pro-bono work. The fuck is wrong with them?
can glorified bribe brokers still buy a boat?
Exactly. Who needs a high priced lawyer when a quick bribe will work?
Cooley's Dean signed it!!!!
Glorified Bribe Broker. Astute observation.
This is all about not rocking the boat for their top clients and making their clients scared to have them as attorneys and switching to a republican led firm. Their clients need to remember when Trump comes for them their attorneys will not be ready to defend them either. Sheer stupidity all around.
Chemerinsky is basically the top Constitutional Law professor in the country. His con law case book is the most widely used just generally. No lawyer should feel okay being on the wrong side of a letter like this from Chemerinsky.
I guess those oaths to uphold the Constitution when admitted to the bar were made in bad faith
I think the attitude of today's elected officials toward their oaths of office—and I include not just the Trump administration but also Congress in this—should make us very concerned for the notion that oaths carry any weight at all in our society anymore. Pro forma, never intended to be upheld.
I know, it’s a joke—as is their proposed fidelity to the word at all, not to mention the logos
Oh, I knew you were joking. But it's something that's been bothering me a lot lately, that keeping one's word is just … not a thing, that a sworn oath has no power to compel honesty or action from anyone. How does the law function at all, then? Why swear oaths at all?
In many respects it’s just a mechanical process, an aspect of a machine, the machine of the state and the empire that, through this ritual, the oath taker is subordinating themselves to.
This all points ultimately to a contradiction between norms and metanorms on top of a more fundamental contradiction of metanorms
In other words, where one sees fidelity to the law as fidelity to justice and equality, etc, the other sees it as fidelity to authority, security, coercive power, patriarchy, etc.
bsky.app/profile/clay...
Was my text when I took Con Law about 20 years ago too. Unfortunately the text is now approximately as useful as a doorstop, given the last ~7 years of SCOTUS jurisprudence upending substantial precedent (and precedent itself)
Unfortunately for a lot of cooperation based #IteratedPrisonersDilemma conclusions the "number of rounds must be unknown or infinite." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisone... If the system is being destroyed it can also destroy cooperation to prevent the collapse.
Princeton doesn’t have a law school but the president is on the record: www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archiv...
He’s trying to turn as many lawyers as he can into Roy Cohn clones. And we know what happened to him! 😈
How could any dean of a law school disagree with this? These are the basic values of the profession. Glad the dean of my alma mater signed. Those who didn’t are failing in their duties both as lawyers and educators.
They might not disagree but their schools might have policies that prevent them from speaking out. A lot of them do
Not surprised, but still disappointed to see my alma mater missing from the list. Standing up against retaliation against lawyers and firms shouldn’t be controversial
Alan Dershowitz!
Don’t see UVA or George Washington or many others. Depressing
This whole experience is changing my perspective on "Ivy League" and other private schools. I don't think they're going to be getting my family's business when our kids start applying to universities.
The “Ivy League” universities always were more about networking than about education.
Well I assume they do provide a good education. But I don't want my kids in an environment where ethical behavior is punished, and academic departments are at the mercy of political decisions by the board of trustees.
The networking also gets them a lot of money, of course, and one would hope that also allows them to attract good academics/educators. But there are many universities (inside & outside the USA) that can give you an education that is comparable in quality (if not as “prestigious”).
Yeah, I know from experience that prestigious profs don't necessarily mean quality lectures or good supervision. It's so hard as a consumer to know what a university is really offering, and what your kid's experience is likely to be.
The ivies: a degree that keeps embarrassing me.
Whole lotta state schools, which I guess I am not surprised that public education is more willing to try and hold the line here. (Also some Catholic schools--Boston College, Loyola New Orleans.)
I saw St. John's, Seton Hall, Fordham, Georgetown, and Creighton too among the Catholics. Probably others but I'm an NYC-based Big East fan, I went looking for the names I'd recognize. SHU was a pleasant surprise.
As a St John's Law alum, nice to see the new dean doing the Vincentians proud.
They’re not even speaking on behalf of schools, these are people who are afraid of losing fundraising clout because they spoke up as an individual
They are not allowed to speak out, per school policies implemented last year after many were hauled before Congress and then fired.
www.thecrimson.com/article/2024...
They liked to think that endowment was a scaffold to…more money I guess but now it’s their prison. Sucks to suck.
I shouldn't be surprised but I'm angry to see no W&M Law on there with how much they love to talk about "citizen-lawyers". What moment could more demand civic-minded lawyers?
Many state law school deans are prohibited from signing such letters by edicts from their Board of Regents/Board of Visitors/State Legislatures.
And what better time to give the finger to such edicts by taking the tremendously brave step of adding one's name to the most clear of legal principles.
idk VA rules, but there are A LOT of public university deans, including the deans of LSU and University of North Texas at Dallas, who could be subject to loss of funding. What, is Youngkin going to defund the Antonin Scalia School of Law? That's who should have led the charge.
W&M Law’s Dean was also the 1L Civ Pro professor for half my class at W&L. Sigh.
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Yale in particular is pretty pathetic given their supposed groundings in the philosophy of law.
Harvard not surprising given that the law school, like the business school, mainly exists to support horrors
No law firms or academics spoke out regarding this money grab from 47 firms, which speaks volumes about the profession/character/virtue. $$$$ www.cbsnews.com/news/claiman...
Attorneys charging $2,645.00/hr $939,851,798 total paid to 41 firms (Professional fees) Silence from Attorneys. Good thing nothing is wrong with our legal system.