So maybe it's fine to try to model American protest after the family-friendly fun of the later demonstrations -- forget about the family-friendly part, it takes work and organization to have fun at all, and helping your juniors to have fun is a worthy act of service to the community. /fin
Beware of the "family-friendly" label. It has been heavily used to tone police the queer community's Pride events. Even straight people apparently feel no shame at all at doing this: yes, I, a straight person, am going to tell queer people how to run their events for my child's imagined benefit.
a good read! I appreciate you taking the time to write this. :) I have more things to mull over now and I feel like this fills in some gaps I had with this topic for sure.
I don’t believe these are good faith reactions to today’s protests.Today wildly exceeded expectations, so somebody’s gotta attempt to sow division & nip it in the bud. & if the bad faith arguments rile up a few ppl to do something dumb & provoke a reaction next time, that’s icing on the cake.
Yeah I gotta wonder how many of the "violence is the only way" people are cops or their paid agitators.
I usually just assume they all are and block on sight. Better safe than sorry.
Yeah I mute them cuz why have that energy on my skyline?
Interesting thread, appreciate it. One area that I am not sure is addressed is that at least in certain parts of America we do have 'black bloc' wannabes that will co-opt these demonstrations with their own extreme goals and methods. Protecting against that takes a lot more than 'social conformity.'
If this is who you are, you should stay home and watch TV, we don't want you protesting
lol
Wow that added a lot
the same can said about telling people to stay home, try harder
People in bloc, like corkers, are part of the protest ecosystem that keeps the street safe for people like you to have a successful protest.
I'm going to elaborate on this a little bit because yesterday in Portland was a smashing success and everyone helped. The organizers got a permit and secured a route. That meant the police had all the entrance ramps to the bridges cordoned and we had traffic control downtown.
That's a win for the normies. As we got off the Morrison bridge and onto MLK it was clear there weren't enough cops and the march was exposed on side streets. Without anyone saying anything, people on bikes started corking, and directing people further up the route once an intersection was clear
That doesn't happen without a lot of people who have protest experience, especially with things going wrong, and applying that organically. That's why you need that ecosystem. Later there were MA groups handing out water on the bridge because it got hotter than expected.
Bloc was present but entirely unnecessary, a huge crowd is its own threat and we've already taught the necessary people the necessary lessons about fucking with Portland. But I'm always glad they're around.
They saved my ass in Chicago multiple times during the Iraq war, Occupy, and the NATO summit. They started throwing piss bottles when cops tried to arrest peaceful demonstrators, in turn getting themselves beaten or arrested. Then later, people online just bitched about them being "agitators."
Like no, they were distracting the cops and saving about 100 people up front from arrest and allowing the remaining thousands to disperse or choose to move up front
Bike bloc is awesome.
Among other things that directly contribute to making the protest unsafe, which is the complete opposite of the original point here. The debate has happened ad nauseam since before I was born, not breaking any new ground here.
I'm not debating I'm explaining how it works
and I am explaining how it work against the original point of making these protests and demonstrations safer.
You’re describing a “protest” that has been tacitly pre-commandeered by the powers you’re ostensibly protesting against The narrative in your head that police-approved “well behaved” marches are a vehicle for change is an ahistorical fairytale… You’re mad at the wrong people.
We need an all of the above strategy and we shouldn't discount the usefulness of mass protests like yesterday. 100 thousand people or however many were out in Portland yesterday is a hell of a threat, just more subtly delivered.
Hon, I’m about 90% on your side and even I think this a cheap internet shot without substance. You’re taking part in a debate that has gone on for centuries, just own it.
Holy shit a talking wombat
The wombat lives across the seas, Among the far Antipodes. He may exist on nuts and berries, Or then again, on missionaries; His distant habitat precludes Conclusive knowledge of his moods, But I would not engage the wombat In any form of mortal combat. -- Ogden Nash
Not necessarily holy, but certainly cubic.
You are trying to argue against what history has shown over and over and over
No. Cops make protests unsafe, not protesters.
If they're in black bloc then they're not wannabes, huh?
Left and libs need to unite against fascism, so just accept the allies you have. I’m doing a lot of that as a lefty.
Antifa protestors kept folks safe at Charlottesville; they’re part of the protest movement. Accept them.
That was already happening, Molly. You’re just going to have to accept the surveillance state exists and try to work around it.
yeah, ya missed that one bud
Having encountered a few, I suspect that a surprisingly large percentage would go along within seconds if everyone around them just sat down on the ground. They’d whisper furiously to the person next to them—probably “What’s going on?! This is stupid!” but it would temporarily derail a BUNCH of ‘em.
That’s not to say that this method would be foolproof or prevent violence in the long term, but something like that would absolutely throw people for a loop.
this is correct, particularly given the % of "black bloc"/"blow up a Walmart" bigmouths who are actually feds Discipline in protest works. It contains the violent antisocial minority, whether they are in the uniform of 'cooler than you anarchist' or your local police!
*Everyone* who goes to a protest is, for some definition, "co-opting" it. Everyone has their preferred outcome. Every protest is a coalition.
Who is the authority on what is a “wannabe” and what is “genuine” black bloc? How can you tell the difference? I mean, if one dresses in bloc, they are bloc. Except when they’re not?
I'm begging everyone to bring this to the strategy team channel at the generalstrikeus.com discord
Been doing this for well over a decade. The sure fire way to keep police at bay and not bagging people up is them looking over a large crowd and seeing that they are ready for a fight. Cops prefer to create a dangerous situation they can control, not go into one with hundreds of angry people
Ok, Cop.
shut the fuck up. no one controls the crowd, don't like a persons tactics then don't join them. protest peace police are included in acab
You are responding to a post about demonstrations being co-opted.....with this....? Maybe reading comprehension is not your thing.
no you are trying to divide or discredit a movement because you disagree with others' tactics. you aren't helping any movement. solidarity is not policing others actions or their response to the fascists in charge.
Nope, nice try, the side you are trying to take will only isolate yourself in the long run.
nah cause i don't police others, my tent is full of a spectrum of beliefs and tactics. People like you though can continue to cower while abiding by rules established to defang these movements. history proves you wrong, and in time it will again.
Black bloc is a tactic (dressing anonymously), it can be used differently at different times. Some times small groups use it for specific actions, totally uncoordinated with any other people dressed in black bloc. Other times it’s used as a bloc between vulnerable marchers and the police etc..
It’s always the case that some people will do things at protest you or the organizers don’t like or think are bad tactics, individuals of all kinds do this. Black bloc can be used in very helpful ways, not everyone dressed that way is into property destruction.
This is roughly what happened to the racial justice protests in the summer of 2020, and while it's not the sole reason the protests lost support, it was probably a big portion of the reason why the support for protests did not last. It's unpopular on Bluesky, but thank you for noticing the issue.
It’s a mistake to try to restrict how people protest. Everyone should protest in their own way Everyone should take the risks they feel ok to take
at a protest I don't think people should feel free to do anything that would initiate violence and increase the danger for everyone there. what's an example of something you're talking about? if it's like burning a trashcan or getting physical with cops I don't think that's ever okay. here's why:
protests are not meant for us as citizens to individually take the actions we want while expecting the crowd to protect us. if you want to riot then I'm not gonna say you can't or shouldn't, but that's not the point of a protest. protests should be places for collective anger to be focused and honed
I think some insurrectionist leftists go to protests and are frustrated that nothing is *happening*, so they use their anger to try and disrupt the status quo. and most protests *are* pretty useless. but if they instead ended up getting people talking about how to organize, then they're worth it
I don't think protests are effective if they just marching around yelling with signs. but they *are* effective if you do that *plus* you meet people and talk about what you're personally doing to advance the cause you're all there for, and maybe even create connections for later organizing
Not practical and not a strategy for winning such a huge and important battle
That’s your opinion. Many of us think protests are for more than that. You are are entitled to your opinion as are we. There is no ‘right or wrong’ way to protest
there's no *one* way to protest, but at a specific protest there *is* a right way to get the results you want, and whatever the goals of the protest are should be the priority. if the protest is for breaking shit, ok, but be clear about that to everyone and don't bring people not on board with that
Again thats your opinion. That’s not how it works in the real world
whatever man, I can tell you're not interested in having an actual conversation, but just know that most people are going to blame you and maybe all leftists/anarchists if you put others in danger so you can larp as a soldier for the people
Larp lol I’m not an anarchist or black bloc member myself. I’m too old for that You can’t win if you don’t embrace all those who want to join the cause You can’t win if the fear of drop of tear gas in eye makes you stay home If a little tear gas keeps you away then you really aren’t serious
So the point of a protest is to express yourself for a few hours and then go home? You realize that that has NEVER changed anything, right?
gotta keep reading
Yeah it’s not just protesting. You get to network. You know make connections. Like LinkedIn or something like that Maybe do some knitting together later 🙃
I think that you are wrong. I always advise people that, if they see something that makes them uncomfortable, you should keep walking. Black bloc is not my thing but it is a tactic. Me, I just keep walking. (more)
Secondly, you never know if that guy setting fire to a building is a cop or a violent right winger. You aren't a cop. You are an average protester out to do good in the world.
Many of those folks are not trying to co-opt anything but rather help you realize the imminent danger of activism on the ground. That person clad in black might actually just be a medic who can help your butt if godforbid there's violence but simultaneously cannot lose their job or is at risk.
If you see black bloc and don't want to be part of it, leave. They're kind people to everyone on their side. They may have more physical/"radical" tactics, but they're not going to hurt you, and you won't be arrested if you leave their vicinity (unless you're invigorated by them & wanna help)
Black bloc is not the enemy. They're just more aggressive than people who sign up for protests online. In the mid-2000s to 2010s I would stay until they came, hand off medical supplies to them, & then leave, because the police are aggressive when they show. The cops' response is the reason to leave
Seems like they are equating the BB with the right wingers who were setting fires and urging in violence in the BLM protests five years ago. It’s not the lefties.
They are making that equivalence because it is part of the same pacifying rhetoric. The people who burned down the 3rd precinct were the people of north minnapolis. A couple sketchy dudes were around but did not represent a significant faction.
The smooth in your handle must refer to your brain.
And the Satan in your name....?
It’s self explanatory. I love Satan.
black bloc is good actually, you do your thing and let them do theirs. otherwise you're just acting as cops and stopping any real change.
My dude, you have armed nazis parading in your streets and you worry about black blocks that may happen? Really?
It's usually helpful to recall the past... abcnews-go-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/abcnews....
And black blocs don't show up to events where hundreds of thousands of people register online like this
They will be at your nearest Tesla dealer doing their thing shile all the cops are busy.
Yes smart people are aware of agents provocateurs. Read some history. They people who break windows at protests are not on our side.
what if…. peaceful protesters tackle the violent actors and hand them over to police? In the same vein as post 9/11 anybody rushing the cabin door will be gang tackled. There is some awareness now after BLM protests. Just a thought. Something I’d like to see evolve, something I hope to see 🤷♀️
A lot of them did during the larger BLM protests. The problem was the police arrested everyone who tried to turn them over. Sometimes, often times sadly, the violent actors were also cops.
It should continue tho - give bad actors pause & worry for their own safety
Agreed, absolutely.
yeah, they can be. accepting the framing that if anyone tangentially related to a protest breaks a window then the protest is invalid is setting yourself up for failure. it doesn't get held against the opposition and it doesn't even get held against sports parades
You are mistaken. I have been photographing protests and getting to know the protesters for a long time. While it's entirely possible that there are people breaking windows who are not on your side, every person who dresses in black is not a cop or provocateur. That's why you should keep walking.
And I myself am fine with black. It looks good on me. But the "black bloc" look is special --- including masks to hide identity, no identifying marks, and hanging in groups so that the cops can't tell who exactly committed violence. If you do not want to learn, I can't help you.
I saw this shit in Kenosha after Jacob Blake was shot. 4 young White dudes piled out of a car parked near me and put on all-black garb. Hours later I saw the same group hurling bricks (I know, right?) at the bearcats. Woulda got their lic# but car was gone before me. 💯Fuk'n chaos agents.🤬
You should reach out to the police and see if they have any jobs for you. They love to have a few people on their side on the protests, and you clearly love the flavor of boot so it'd prolly work great
Sure buddy... I gather information to be informed, not to inform. Those dudes weren't useful, only there to put other people's lives at-risk. Wasting time here.✌🏻
I just blocked "assfarter". It's at best trolling.
4 young white dudes not following black bloc tactics and doing obvious damage with no real goal? Was there a police charge shortly afterwards?
🤣🤣🤣 Twas was the night of Aug 25, 2020 in Kenosha, WI.🤔
That’s not what I asked. Was there a police charge in the vincinity after you saw those 4 guys?
By charge do you mean like, CHARGE! or charges filed? A:neither. The rented bearcats were busy firing gas and rubber bullets at the non-violent and more visible targets. There were plenty to choose from. The creeps on rooftops would laser point folks for them even! 👀
We have both been around for a while but have learned different lessons about diversity of tactics. I am sorry, but I don't think that I have anything to learn from you. While you are busy policing what other people do at protests, I'm actually protesting.
Have you noticed how many assumptions you fit into that? Anyone can "protest". Being "effective" in protesting is harder. It requires accepting the risk of nonviolence. Here, yesterday, thousands of us united on this. Join us!
Well, clearly you are the protest expert. I am not going to continue wasting my energy here. Get out and protest either way!
YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO HIDE YOUR IDENTITY WHEN FACING A FASCIST REGIME YOU FUCKIN IDIOT.
lol this guy sounds like a fed
I have been protesting since the mid-1970s, in America. Any person who breaks windows at protests are not on our side. They may not be cops (not ACAB after all) but they are not helping win the ideological battle.
Have you read any history at all, my dude?
I think that people don't understand WHY there is even such a thing as black bloc. They think that they are just out there to cause trouble.
Define "black bloc". Here in Seattle, yes they are just here to make trouble.
I think that the difference between you and me is that you have not bothered to find out WHY. Here is a wiki for you. FWIW Black bloc is a tactic. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_b...
Ah yes, the famously ineffective "Berkeley Anarchist Riot of 1989" ... used to justify police violence for decades afterwards. Perhaps in your country the police are nicer than here. In America, we win with nonviolence. Hiding your face from the cops means you intend violence.
My dude, the answer is yes. Why do you ask? What do you recommend?
Anything about the labor union movement in your own damn country, to begin with.
In the end, Malcolm X and Martin Luther King genuinely understood diversity of tactics and how it works. Don't waste your energy on people who see everything as black & white.
"Our people have made the mistake of confusing the methods with the objectives. As long as we agree on objectives, we should never fall out with each other just because we believe in different methods or tactics or strategy to reach a common goal." - Malcolm X
I think expecting a fascist to hand you your rights bc you were nice and nonviolent is naive at best If you present to fascists as a non-threat, then they have absolutely no reason to relinquish their power There should be an underlying "or else" to the chants of the protesters, one that's real
I have read lots of history and that is just false. You have been co-opted by the racist “outside agitator” narrative. Don’t do that.
Maybe you are confusing two different things. Peaceful protests like yesterday's "Hands Off!" rallies are always at risk of being ruined by black clad "anarchists". That's what "black bloc" means around here. But if you're talking about racial resentment boiling over, that is different.
Black bloc protests *are* peaceful protests. When you have "hands off!" rallies with no black blocs to protect them, then police violence goes out of control and the protests are no longer peaceful. Black bloc keeps the police from ruining the peace. Keeping the protest peaceful.
No they are not. You literally do not understand how black block or anarchism works. You are only spouting ahistorical nonsense. I suggest you learn something about the history of the movement, it’s purpose, and what it does because you obviously have no clue. You are merely helping fascists.
It really seems like you saw the term “black bloc” and derived an incorrect meaning from its use, and now you’re just doubling down on your original response because ::checks notes:: nobody can handle being wrong on the internet.
Nah, he’s right.
I believe you're conflating different, almost polar opposite threats here. The guys I witnessed (see: Umbrella Man) get non-violent Black & Brown folks beaten, gassed, and/or killed by thirsty law enforcement. Same goes for those 2A assholes. Privilegey fucks for sure.✌🏻 bsky.app/profile/brew...
A lot of people have witnessed far right scumbags turning a protest into a riot so Trump can turn it into authoritarian propaganda, and someday much much worse. www.justsecurity.org/70497/far-ri...
They do not need far right scum bags to do that. You are literally falling for their propaganda to demonize and separate anyone who doesn’t sit around and sing cumbaya. I beg you to actually study the history around all of this stuff instead of getting it from a bunch of white washing media accounts
You act as if no one has ever intentionally broken a window or set a fire without it being a right wing provocateur. You are literally removing people’s own agency and degrading their outrage because it doesn’t fit your lilly white narrative of the world. You may not like it, but its the truth
During OWS the liberal media went really, really hard on "there is a terrorist organization called black block and they want to destroy your protest and even murder puppies!" Lot of libs still believe that as a matter of faith. It's just how they are.
Then you have never seen a black bloc but policemen doig their work.
LOL. What I saw with my own eyes is false. Good to know, tankie!
lol an anarchist is a tankie? You obviously have no clue what the fuck you are talking about
Have you just called an anarchist “tankie”?
What a long, stupid trip that word has taken
Yes, they meet at the end of the horseshoe
lololol horseshoe theory? Please pick up a book on political theory, I am begging you. You literally do not know what the term tankie means
Perhaps you might ask a question rather than make an assertion. Such as: "Why did you call an anarchist a tankie?" Unless you're not interested in learning what other ppl think.
Why did you call an anarchist a tankie ?
What does that have to do with black blocs? Provocateurs will infiltrate any organization they can.
Maybe having a tactic that is so easily infiltrated is a bad idea?
Maybe. What is done to prevent provocateurs in the other groups you do like? Best I can tell I can just … show up to any of them.
You're actually an idiot
Infiltrated cops do not behave at all like black blocks, anywhere in the word. I have documented some of both cases myself during the aint/austerity protests in Spain, and they are easy to tell appart by any body who cares to look at it.
Perhaps your experience is different from mine, but here in Seattle the people dressed in black willing to do violence are NOT HELPFUL.
This, so much this, they are try hard wannabes. Y'all can ascribe whatever you want, it is a rorschach test, but you cannot ignore what has happened in the past including police infiltrating these movements to disrupt by any means necessary.
The black bloc is not there to protest. Protest is merely expressing disdain publicly. It’s efficacy is that is can be a stepping stone to impactful political action, but it is not itself impactful. Black bloc is there, in part, to demonstrate what is ultimately required (for impact) and possible
What is ultimately required?
punching fascists. please prove me wrong and name a time in all of history that fascism was defeated through peaceful means?
I was just asking what was required. So, 1) Punching fascists.
if you want to really know what's going to be required i recommend reading a few books on french and dutch resistance to german nazism
Thanks for the book rec! The person I was responding to said black bloc actions show what is required. I'm not arguing over the presence of violence in successful anti-fascist movements, I'm just wondering in what ways black bloc actions in the United States have showed the way to success.
would you actually like some? most people with such sarcastic replies prefer to "do their own research"? Seattle 1999 for the second half of your statement
I'm not being sarcastic.
I think what I'm after is not really possible in a public forum, since what I'm asking is to hear what people think a successful, asymmetric action would look like in the United States right now, and that's not something anyone should feel comfortable talking about here.
sorry for the assumption. Books "The french resistance" raymond aubrac "a history of french anarchist movement" David Berry (free online) Nederlandse Anarchisten in de tweede Wereldoorlog (dutch magazine during nazi occupation) "The Resistance Fighters" Barth Hoogstraten & a quick article also
Black bloc is a tactic among many within the toolbox of radicals and its deployed for multiple reasons, that include: • “breaking the spell” of state power • demonstrating the potentials of people power • exacting some(even if pithy) penalty against the owning class • building a militant movement
Black bloc doesn’t suppose it is proving the lessons of required militancy - history and the powers that be demonstrate that in spades What it’s trying to demonstrate (in part) is that militancy is more possible and power is more fragile…than is commonly believed.
In some cases, attention to a protest or an issue that would otherwise not be covered.
Causing enough of a problem that the state changes course.
For major systemic improvements to civil/worker/human rights? Militancy. Insurrection. Force. There has yet to be any instance in all of human history (never mind just our society) where success (re: aforementioned systemic improvements) did not include violent revolt and/or a militant movement
Maybe you're just not as knowledgeable about all of the movements for systemic improvements across all of human history as you think you are. Here's an instance en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_...
You’re doing the thing all pathological pacifists do, which is ignore all the violence involved in the outcome - the violence against the oppressor/authority - and focus solely on the non violent elements… The decline of the USSR was violent and that can’t be coherently/honestly separated
The violence came from the state The violence of the people against the state is implicit, or reactive. There was no violent insurgency happening in parallel in the baltics. There was no black bloc "demonstrating what was ultimately required" in hungary. There were strikes and protests
No, the violence and militarism that the USSR dealt with per Afghanistan, the “Cold War”, and client state support all contributed to the economic and military over-reach that ushered in perestroika, glasnost, and the avoidance of a ‘56 Hungary style crackdown on the Baltic and eastern bloc states
You were talking about the need for violent revolts, and for there to be groups who "demonstrate what is ultimately required." I believe you were referring to internal actors, but if costly failed wars is all it takes, then the US has already had a handful, so peaceful protests should be fine, no?
I didn't see any tanks at the protests, a '56 style crackdown seems unlikely at this point
The only caveat historically to violent revolt being a requirement is when some outside force exacted the violence instead of the oppressed… But violence against the oppressor is always, up to now, a feature of any successful revolutionary/liberation struggle Your example included
Violence against the oppressor is always…up to now…a contemporaneous or proceeding condition for liberation The same could be said for India right? But only if we ignore WWII, and the fact that violence bled the UK military white and drained its coffers …preceding Indian independence
I just wanna quickly point out that there is a very valid place for pacifism even among black bloc and violent tactics. No matter what, every protest movement needs medics. Don't think you meant to imply otherwise, but thought I'd add the clarity.
Absolutely. Thanks for mentioning that.
In the UK we had at least two 500k marches on London - 100% peacefully against Brexit (there is violence when more that 3 Brexiters walk together!!) - the marches achieved less than nothing The French would simply say "why aren't you burning things - look at us it works"
In Germany, we had peaceful protests against the AfD at the beginning of 2024, and they dif break their momentum. It was rekindled when Conservatives (like Tories) moved their policies far-right to siphon off AfD votes. I believe many Brexit protests came too late & violence is never acceptable.
Yes, maybe different countries traditions / culture play a part in how protest play out I would love to be proved wrong about the US ones tbh - but I doubt it somehow Politicians only seem to be scared of the ballot box
We did burn stuff in 2020 and essentially nothing changed over it
It’s also like Americans own a bunch of guns, so I think we’re paradoxically extra careful to keep things “peaceful”.
i can't beleive that anyone would read this thread and not block you so incoherent and so unreadable, a complex argument that should be in a blog post but is broken up into undigestible chunks but you will go far
why are you on bluesky if you dislike reading threads go back to reddit
PLEEEASE BRING THIS DISCUSSION TO THE RESISTANCE 🥺 MIGHT I SUGGEST THE GENERALSTRIKEUS.COM DISCORD
we should definitely look outside the U.S. in SO many directions, for SO many things, by no means limited to protests against encroaching or existing autocracy although that is a very fine thing to be studying right now. idk, the Pikachu running through Turkish protests is...interesting
anyway I would love to find some fresh vivid substitutes for "hey hey ho ho" thanks
That point about thousands of people doing something in sync being intimidating is interesting and I bet in the U.S. it'd be REALLY freaky. say, whatever happened to flash mobs?
Do South Korean police kill on sight, like US police do?
Your thread was a good read. I think it's spot on, and I think America already has a model for fun protesting: when gay people protest. Their protests are a freaking party.
A very helpful thread. Ty.
My kids have been to 3 protests so far, and #HandsOff yesterday was "their favorite". Safe, everyone taking care of each other, costumes, wit, music, connection, pets. Almost Mardi Gras-esque (I'm from NOLA). As a parent I *have* to feel like my kids can be safe, but some fun is a huge huge +!
as a bonus treat, reupping my favorite photo from the night of martial law
Here in Brazil we have way too many cases of police abuse, so, the left is getting more and more wild, as a response to the military police. In US I think things are coming to the hell breaking loose big time.
It’s a country with more privately owned guns than people and, conservatively, something like 100 armed civilians to every cop/50 to every member of the military. A real mass movement could escalate quickly.
Yes. That's what scares me. To which side this movement will go after a century of Macarthism. "Best" case scenario, the troops are called back and leave us alone. Yes, is scary that John Smith from IT team have as many weapons as some small countries, but beyond domestic terrorism, what's next?
I don't think you see a revolution like you're imagining. If a couple of State Guards stand down and a few cops get shot it doesn't really matter who it is doing the shooting. The path of least resistance for the Center suddenly becomes removal and reversion to the status quo rather than rebellion.
Everyone imagines that the Second Amendment is about civil war, but it's far more effective as a threat in a federal system. The same Senators who don't want to rock the boat and piss off Trump are mostly the guys who will want to cut Trump loose instead of seeing shooting in Connecticut.
Is that a police car flying through the air?
Riot shield it looks like
Apologies for the stupid wording, but what am I looking at? I feel like this is in the middle of an action where context might make it more entertaining rather than less.
Whatever it is, people there are amused.
Everyone is laughing --is that a cardboard cut out? Or a balloon?
It’s a riot shield and the light behind it making it look opaque, I think
Thanks!
🙏lord, i want that for us
I remember the video of the one guy holding a camera phone in one hand and using the other to pirouette an approaching cop in the opposite direction. Looked like one of those Steven Segal fake-akkido videos.
Agreed and, I wonder also how near universal military service by half the population factors in. Maybe better tactics.
What I found when covering the Portland protests was that veterans were disproportionately represented among protesters. But I think the draft affected Korean protests in the sense that the soldiers sent to shoot citizens were normal guys and not Border Patrol psychos who are Into Hurting People
I would sort of expect the same if we had martial law- folks joining for GI bill different than ICE. Typing that out I’m realizing US has undeclared martial law if people can be whisked off the street and/or flown to El Salvador with no due process.
I think the US has been in existential constitutional crisis since January and that the difference between here and Korea in early December is the absence of an opposition party.
"Our present constitutional crisis is Putin’s pay back for the fall of the Soviet Union, and convenient cover for an even more egregious crime: ecocide."
Good point. There were quite a few vets in Occupy Oakland. Holding up copies of the constitution to cops in riot gear. IIRC the ‘good’ people joined the military after 9/11, leaving local law enforcement to be taken over by white supremacy (to the extent that it already hasn’t been.)
I doubt US protests can ever really map 1:1 to Korean protests, because the US has a vast police apparatus that can and will swoop in on protests and start tear-gassing and beating people and hauling them off to vanish in for-profit prisons. It’s why cops often infiltrate protests as shit-stirrers.
Like, if some dork at your intentionally peaceful protest starts trying to set concrete on fire, there’s a good chance that’s a cop. (Or just a dork, but “cop” is always a distinct possibility.)
Or a paid instigator, as we saw with BLM protests. www.buzzfeednews.com/article/blak...
www.theguardian.com/world/2020/o...
www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/ne...
Yup, there was a whole lot of that going on! Especially in 2020! And then large swathes of the media breathlessly amplifying everything into “ZOMG RIOTS EVERYTHING IS ON FIRE!!1” (cue dramatic photo thru smoke) To this day, there are still people who seem to think NYC basically burned down in 2020
Apparently Seattle was burned to the ground, too. And "antifa" became the bad guys....who the fuck ever thought fighting fascism would be seen as negative? (Like those assholes even know what the word means)
The Korean attitude towards protests, policing, and the martial law declaration itself is informed by the dictatorship years, where there was a massive military-police apparatus that hurt, disappeared, and killed people.
99% of Americans know nothing about the ‘87 protests or Chun Doo-Hwan
Right, but is that apparatus in place NOW? I get the impression the Korean armed forces mostly don’t want to fire on their neighbors, in the current state of things, or is that not the case? It sounds like Korea has already gotten past the state the US is currently in, hence the different vibes.
I’m not trying to play “Who Is More Oppressed” and I hope it didn’t come off that way! I’m mostly trying to gauge why the Korean impeachment and protests play out so differently from similar efforts in the US, and is there anything the US could pick up from that, what works differently, and why?
i think it's futile to liken Korea is to America in general. we have more police, more guns, and more violence.
videos i saw of old ladies pushing back on guns and such would not play out the same here. it would've been so much worse.
We just need someone with better aim
I keep reading this photo as a police car flying through the air having been thrown by immensely strong protestors and I'm OK with that.
NEXT SEASON, ON PHYSICAL 100
It's being held up by that one guy in camo.
Pretty impressive lifting a car with one hand. Healthy eating and all that I expect.
Haha.
That was my read on the vibe, and I'm glad it's not because it's early here and I'm tired.
Me, too.
Thank you for your insight! This was a fascinating thread, and I do hope we can take some lessons from the Korean protests!