If you write as part of an organization or your writing passes through any institution, those two spaces are gonna drive people fucking insane. Otherwise, whatever.
If you write as part of an organization or your writing passes through any institution, those two spaces are gonna drive people fucking insane. Otherwise, whatever.
I feel like its something everyone just decided it was cool to feel strongly about at some point
They're much more useful when you're writing with something that uses a monospace font.
that is the reason to be using them, in which case, the question becomes, why are you using a monospace font
because i'm posting on bluesky. see? this is a monospaced world.
I write with vi, in the same terminal windows I write code in. I never developed the finger memory for any other way of writing, though occasionally I do mess up and do editor-friendly sentences.
:%s/ / /g
Yes, but why? fmt -s | sed -e 's/\. +/. /g' works better than that because it doesn't mangle your source document. (I should really write a discount variant that will format & manual-of-style to plaintext.)
As a habitual double spacer, I regularly have to find/replace and knock them back to singles.
I'd add that most positions that involve writing in the US use either AP or Chicago style. Both styles use one space after the period. In academic circles, both APA and MLA now recommend single space.
yep!
Don't care. I learned to type in an actual typewriter. I like two spaces after a period.
There's something just innately satisfying to me about the double-tap of the space bar when finishing a thought that I'm trying to untrain in myself. Thankfully, most word processing software can fix it automatically for me when I slip up...
This, exactly. I don’t care what people do with their own writing but if it’s something I have to edit those double spaces will give me Opinions
Using two spaces on a modern computer for a non-monospaced font is like connecting a rotary dial to your iPhone. I guess it's quaint to you but if you hand it to someone else to use, you're making work where you don't need to.
If hitting the space bar twice is "work," I need a raise.
I have such strong opinions on double spaces after periods thanks to @dandrezner.bsky.social making me look at them every week (on @spacethenation.bsky.social scripts). For FIVE YEARS NOW.
he has to stop. HE HAS TO STOP.
I have screenshot and texted him most of your posts and the replies. TERRORISM, HE IS GUILTY OF GRAMMATICAL TERRORISM. And, quite serious, I do a search and replace the instant he sends me script. Just so I don't have to have my eyes assaulted while we record.
Two spaces is almost enough space to insert [sic].
Never give in to these philistines, these dead-eyed standardizers, these crass economizers hastening from one sentence to the next without a millisecond of reflection.
I love double spaces. It makes reading easier.
MONSTER
They’re also distracting to the reader, breaking up contiguous text with white-space holes. First thing I do when editing is a find/replace to tighten up the whole.
It’s an accessibility issue IMO. Plenty of organizations are happy to do things that make life more difficult for folks who aren’t perfectly abled. Full stops with a single space are difficult to scan as discrete text chunks. Maybe I’d feel differently if reading was easier for me.
The issue you have is not with the spaces, the issue you have is with how your modern interface, word processor, etc is handling the now-standard proportional-width typeface that adjusts spaces between characters. Which includes automatically creating wider spaces after periods.
The difference, to me, is only the width of that period. Not enough to make the distinction easily legible. This may just be Bluesky's text rendering, but much of the internet is similar. Two spaces really is a help.
If the formatting software can automatically widen the space after the end of a sentence, it can automatically handle single and double spaces after the punctuation mark. Or if it can't, that's on the damn software, not the typist nor the reader.
How is it that in the Year of Our Lord 2025 it's still an issue? Shouldn't whatever publishing/editing/layout/presentation system just... fix it? Like, let people type whatever they want and automatically convert as necessary? Isn't this what computers are supposed to be good at?
You'd think, right!? If a computer can typeset, it can most certainly apply whatever writing style editors want to the typeset document!
Sentence, full stop, newline. Lather, rinse, repeat. Paragraph break is two newlines.
One thing I hate about the bsky text input gizmo is that it preserves newlines and spaces, instead of formatting them into paragraphs (separated by 2 newlines) as G-D THEMSELF INTENDED.
And if the sentence is long enough, break it up with newlines as appropriate. In any real situation, what you see in the text editor isn't what the reader will see in the final publication anyway.
I have worked in publishing on one side or another since 1992 and even the first system I worked on could normalize whitespace.
I suspect what we are seeing is not a publishing system so much as a Word doc being repeatedly edited before going through a composition process that was never required to normalize whitespace.
And you can write what you want, but if you don’t fucking capitalize (you want to tally about readability?) and don’t know the goddamned difference between possessive and plural “it’s”, I sure as shit won’t read it.
*talk
muphry makes his appearance again!
Now you're talking important matters!
That's one really nice thing about html; unless you work to stop it, multiple spaces just *poof* down into one. (two or more spaces after a . save my eyes when typing into a monospaced terminal window, so cold dead hands etc etc. )
There's the incentive I was looking for
As someone who has been driven insane by two spaces, can confirm lol. Two spaces is something that was done for typewriters haha
It's a hard habit to break for someone who learned to type on a manual typewriter (and C64)...
It’s not THAT hard. I learned to type on an IBM Selectric II in high school and unlearned the double-space when I started typesetting at the college newspaper. We had a cold-type photographic typesetter that stored files on an 8-inch floppy.
I taught myself to stop doing this during college, despite having been forced to do it throughout high school. Literally all you have to do is decide you want to stop doing it, and then you consciously start doing it the new way until it’s natural.
As a designer who lays out text, it’s not like they’re hard to get rid of— a find and replace. But it’s annoying that that task gets passed on to me because it’s someone else’s aesthetic preference (which is against the company style guide)
Since I work mostly in non-proportional text (except when writing HTML, where it doesn't matter, the renderer takes care of it) I feel the opposite. But if it's clearly called out in a style guide that's fine.
I was the designer who had to fix that crap. Once you see it, you can’t unsee it, either. I can spot double spaces across a room.
But my default font is Courier...
I couldn't imagine arguing with an editor about double spaces lmao
Yep. This isn’t a matter of personal preference. If the writing is going to be published, especially in print, the two spaces have to be converted to one. Not an opinion.
Definitely an opinion
In printed published writing, the space will be removed.
Do you think it is somehow technologically impossible to not do so?
Oh, we’re talking about technological possibility. Helpful.
I’m just saying it’s a social convention. Acting like it’s a law of gravity is silly.
Right.
Your uppercase letters at the beginning of sentences and your apostrophe placement are conventions too. Publishers are going to try to make sure they’re correct before printing a book.
A publisher can certainly print two spaces after a period, I believe in them.
But they won’t and they shouldn’t
I haven't published anything for decades, but if publishers really can't do that for themselves--and if they're doing any editing they damn well can--ask the author to do it. Any text editor worthy of the name can do it easily enough.
Ctrl H “ “ “ “
Writers can do that before sending it
You are throwing down gauntlets today—and I love it.
This is one of the main workplace divisions separating Boomers/Gen X from Millennials/Zoomers. Anyone who has never used a typewriter does single space and has no idea why the olds are adding in extra spaces after each sentence.
This is not true. I was born in 1984 and learned touch typing in the 90s on computers. We had double-spacing drilled into us!
Yeah, that was so weird that they continued to teach that. I quit double-spacing in like 1983 because I was setting type. But I think I still double-spaced on a typewriter. Never made any sense on a computer except I think maybe some code required it of programmers.
“Are Two Spaces Better than One? The Effect of Spacing following Periods and Commas during Reading,” We agree with that conclusion—except maybe for the part that discourages passionate arguing about small things. www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/qanda/data/f...
As The Atlantic article reports, a small study conducted at Skidmore College found that spacing between sentences does influence how people read and that some people read faster if there are two spaces rather than one.
I definitely read faster when there are two spaces, so that's what I prefer. But I understand that I have lost the battle
i believe in the oxford comma and two spaces. EB White approves.
Because the petty opinions of style merchants are far more important than making things easier for readers. Text is for showing off, not for conveying information.
I can’t believe people are still arguing about this. It was the subject of a company-wide meeting where I was working back in 1995 and I thought it was pretty wild then that people didn’t understand why two spaces were no longer needed nor wanted.
The first thing in my production editor team's checklist is "replace all double spaces with single space"
I was always a one-spacer until my new wife converted me to two spaces. Years later I learned the truth and forced myself to unlearn the two-spaces. Every now and then, when I let down my guard, an extra space sneaks in but I always catch it.
I literally make sure that I remove any accidental double spaces before submitting any text. I will not check for faulty footnotes or grammar mistakes but I will fix those.
Also any time someone has to process your text digitally using regular expressions, especially alongside other text that doesn't do that. You'll have programmers putting up bounties on your head.
Whitespace de-duping is probably the easiest and most common task that anyone could possibly regex. Anyone whining about this is a typist, not a programmer.
YES!
I've been programming for about 50 years, typing two spaces after the end of a sentence for nearly as long, and using regular expressions since I dived happily into Unix 45 years ago. It is not a problem, and only sloppy programmers will claim it is.
Technically it’s also cleaning staff’s job to clean up the piss dudes who can’t be bothered to aim spray around the floor of the toilet, but everyone who isn’t an asshole understands where the lazy person is in this equation.
Your utter lack of respect for programmers is your problem, not mine.
I teach freshman writing, and it's difficult to impress on them how important seemingly arbitrary formatting requirements are. Yeah I took 10 points off because you screwed up MLA. You're lucky it wasn't a $150k grant application.
I used to always double space. That attitude was killed when I joined Twitter back in the 140 character days lol.
This is like when I learned cursive and had teachers force me to write ONLY in cursive for multiple years then was told to go back!
In law school in 2010 the class was split pretty evenly between "of COURSE you use two periods. It makes reading easier" and "I've never ever heard of two spaces". It was probably the first moment I ever really empathized with the Principle Skinner meme "no, it's the children who are wrong."
I use five spaces. It's how I assert my dominance.
Truly, you have announced your presence with authority.
Sorry, five spaces are strictly for indentation.
Using spaces to indent is very 1985, and a good way to drive editors fully insane
Indentation is for the weak
Yep, I had to set up my word processor to automatically reset to 1 space because it’s such an ingrained habit! I learned to type with typewriter training material albeit with an Apple II
My typing teacher docked points for one space.
If sentences need to get moved around and modified, those two spaces make everything a hundred times messier, because we live in a time when 1) editing happens in-line in the file and not on paper 2) kerning is working out pretty well in this regard at least
We have computers. They can present the text to you any way you want. If you want to see one space at the end of a sentence they can do that. Let people write what they want and you can read it how you want.
speaking as someone who mass-deleting extra spaces, tabs, returns, etc...in Quark Xpress in the late 90s, is there a reason things don't get that immediate pass?
A typical editing process involves back and forth, and if one party keeps inserting new text with extra spaces...............
A book industry blogger I admired twenty years ago wrote a suite of AppleScripts to scrub redundant whitespace and sub in proper quotation marks and dashes. By now that functionality ought to be standard issue word processing tooling customizable to match house style
right, but doesn't it take two seconds to delete them all?
If it’s so easy, writers can do it themselves before submitting copy
You should not treat your editors and collaborators like this, especially in an era of proportional typefaces.
I absolutely get that. But I'd run the find and replace on someone I knew not to put double spaces in on the off chance they had accidentally done so and often enough would end up catching an accidental one that I'd run it on a pass before copy would go to press anyway.
"It's easy to fix my holdover habit from a bygone era that makes the basic process of collaboration harder" is ultimately a judgment about whose time is valuable and whose wants are elevated over whose needs
It is even easier for people to keep the standard that has been around for decades.
At my advanced age, the amount of cognitive effort to change my lifetime two-spaced habit might kill me.
it's best to keep this one a light and easy series of jokes about punctuation and not get into what's "easy" in a workflow because ultimately we're going to go to a pretty dark place about the gender and age breakdown of, say, copy editors versus people submitting double spaces after periods.
I did point out the person about to die rather than give up double spaces after a period used only a single space.
the end
Why not just do a global search and replace and move on?
Yeah that’s something people should do before submitting to an editor or whoever is charged with fixing the document
Sometimes you can! But in my experience, people who refuse to unlearn double spaces may also refuse to learn to use good templates with tabstops, so a global change can cause bigger issues.
good advice indeed
My typing teacher at San Jose Junior High would be very unhappy with anything other than two spaces...
If you see them, tell 'em to shove it and use software that let's them set the width of spaces to whatever they want.
Um you DO know that Selectrics don't have software, right?
I always search for extra spaces (in legal documents). What's worse is if a document isnt styled or when people know how to type but not word process.
2 spaces are typographically hideous.
in case you missed it: bsky.app/profile/agor...
But also because I was raised right? It's like asking me not to wear a bra. It may not be necessary but I appreciate the aesthetics.
And given I learned to type on an IBM Selectric... The result is natural.
This is the thing. If you are over 50, you may have learned to type on a typewriter, and I'll let it pass. Personally I learned on an Apple ][+. But if you are under 40, I'm like WTF when documents get handed to me with double spaces. No excuses for that.
"there’s an old and persistent myth that the monospaced fonts typical of typewriters are somehow responsible for the two-space rule." cmosshoptalk.com/2020/03/24/o...
I learned this literally 30 years ago, when I operated in both 24x80 monospace world and the proportional font world at the same time. How are people still double-spacing?
I learned to type in a class and it was taught to me that way when I was still young. I've never changed because I've never had to. The world will manage until we all die out. I would change to make someone else's life easier, out of courtesy, but don't have that kind of work.
the reason for double spacing is gone! the only thing left is the headache other people get dealing with your double spaces
Thank. You. For. Your. Thoughts.
Ya. Whip. per. snap. per
A . followed by 2 spaces is a period. A . followed by 1 space is an abbreviation. They are different things that look the same.
Sure, on a typewriter.
Hold on, I think people are getting confused now. There's double spacing and then there's double spacing. 2 spaces after a period, vs double line spacing. Both are being described as double spacing
As someone who took typing in high school (80s), I appreciate that pushing the space bar twice adds a period. So if I'm texting or writing on my phone, I still get to indulge the learned muscle memory of two spaces.
Too bad. 😂 in life’s big picture, it’s of little importance. Really little.
The double space after a period is deeply ingrained in my muscle memory, so I just happily type the old way and then do a quick find and replace for the extra spaces before I submit to an editor. win-win?
Double spaced is really nice in legal writing because it makes it easier to see where the breaks are for citations
This is the only acceptable answer but I still reject it.
Unfortunately, olds like me who learned typing in the dark ages were drilled HARD in the double space, and the hard wiring in my brain doesn't get that the reason for it is gone. I've tried hard to break the habit, but sometimes the old muscle memory sneaks in. Luckily, tho, we're a dying breed. 😉
It is also futile for all writing for the web because browsers ignore double spaces when rending a web page.
That's what is for.
I do technical and policy writing and any time the original author of a document uses double spaces after a period I lose my mind.
the worst part is when you're the third editor on a draft and you realize halfway through that the previous two editors only removed *some* of the double spaces
Editor 1 took them out and editor 2 put them back in.
omg
TFW...
View invisible characters. It’ll pick up weird breaks too.
I will use find and replace and replace the two spaces with a single space. Hasn't failed me yet haha
This is why TeX/LaTeX was fun -- use as many spaces as you want because the typesetting system will ignore that BS and do things correctly.
LaTeX still is more fun. Word STILL can’t format fairly simple math correctly, and isn’t portable across Windows and Mac. It’s a struggle to get most Word forms to look like they weren’t filled in by a cat on the keyboard after data entry.
Double spacing is much easier for me when copy editing.
There’s nothing worse than one person in a chain of reviewers who adds doubles spaces to their inputs so all subsequent reviewers have to reconcile their formatting against the rest of the document.
The _original_ purpose of double-spacing is gone. OTOH, if a text always ends sentences with a period and two spaces, then sentence ends can be located with a simple search and distinguished from abbreviations. There is still utility in this.
I still have the habit of doing two spaces on iOS, but only because it automatically adds a period so you don’t have to manually switch to “numbers and punctuation” mode and back. Two spaces turns into a period and one space. Best of both worlds.
Think of it like an accent.
Besides, the reason for almost all language has passed. The reason we spell Wednesday that way isn't the least bit relevant to modern life but in language, old things stick around in some places. It's just a natural part of it all.
The necessity for double-spaces-after-periods extends beyond typographical history and practice. It is helpful for clarity and legibility.
As recently as the early 90's they were still teaching us double spacing in typing classes on our Apple computers.
When I was in publishing, first thing I'd do with a manuscript was to change two spaces to one, remove tabs, remove double carriage returns. I love Word's advanced search and replace features.
Typesetter vs typewriter vs digital typist. The typesetter composition rules are still the dominant rules despite this ignorant buffoon attempting to relive the glory days of the typewriter.