so we are pitted against other minorities for scraps at the table, and have become useful tools in taking down the civil rights act, too narcissistically focused on our sat scores and gpas to think through how we're really only set dressing for some prep school ass dick's college years
🎯🎯🎯
Sadly, Asian Americans were used as pawns by rich, white legacies to destroy the Affirmative Action & DEI policies that allowed ALL minorities access to elite higher education—clearing the way for rich, white legacies to revert elite colleges to pipelines to power for the rich, white legacies’ kids.
That kid took my spot! I should be the one at Princeton and be roommate with Pete Hegseth!
I learned a lot at the elite institutions I attended (despite being Asian and poor). I loved my education. But once I was at Harvard I could no longer avoid the reality that the quality of pedagogy was not the important part, it was the proximity to power that I was locked out of by virtue of birth
As a corollary, I learned that for some non-upper-class POC students (like myself), an 'elite' American education is essentially worthless, because the only thing it provides that other colleges don't is an opportunity to 'network' with those with power and privilege.
Non-white, non-rich students at elite institutions are forced to participate in some rich kid's make-believe that he is surrounded by those worthy of him. Because I was not able to play the part of a non-threatening, just-smart-enough kid, I did not get any scraps from the table.
It's so disappointing and frustrating to learn that humanity is really just as stupid and obvious as it seems. "it's not what you know it's who you know" is the whole of the matter here, which is like. Fuck. That's so dumb.
That applies to me getting a bullshit job at a small company. It should NOT apply to the most prestigious institutes of learning. And yet, here we fucking are.
Correct. This is the real reason.
Impressed that you figured this out while at college. It took years after graduation and years of having elite Ivy educated alumni as co-workers to realize what a racket meritocracy is. And how much marketing goes into selling those places as superior learning establishments. Now I see a lot.
Omg being in a small company that was created by Penn Staters was my hell. They thought they were absolutely the shit and you can just imagine how mediocre they really were. That bro club is way worse than any of the UPENN’ers I’ve experienced.
Figured out the mediocrity of classmates at my non-Brand Name university pre-graduation. Still thought Ivy League alumni and “technology stars” were special. Until seeing them in action during the daily grind of most non-executive tech industry jobs. Value add more about connections than smarts.
It's a giant networking op, but once there, how many people of less elite backgrounds, regardless of race, manage to penetrate the upper echelon? Or do they just form their own networking circles? If so, is it worth it? Or could they have done just as well in life by attending a non Ivy? 🤔
I went to a (very excellent) public university for undergrad, and an Ivy for law school (though professional schools of the Ivy League technically aren't Ivy) — the proximity to power *absolutely* makes a difference.
As a Columbia alum, I’m getting a better education though collectives like The People’s Forum than most of the classes I took as an undergrad.
A kind activist professor was part of how I made it through Georgetown as a poor/ naive kid. At one point he said directly "most people don't come here for an education, they come here to get inaugurated into the ruling class of our country". It took years to realize how true it was .
Your professor was absolutely right. My sister went to Georgetown as part of the Community Scholars program and it was rough getting her footing amongst so much wealth and privilege.
Oh absolutely. he was trying to help me deal with the cognitive dissonance of working hard to get somewhere and then finding out so many people around you are rich, mean, and stupid. While struggling to afford basics in an ungodly expensive area.
amen
Same.
Harvard does not supply an education as much as it supplies a crimson "H" on your permanent record.
A lot of schools don’t really want to be Harvard, they want to be Stanford … or Arizona state
Verdad
The continued pretense that meritocracy is the point has been disastrous.
What's the fix? Shit, man, I don't know. In my youth it really felt like the California UC/CSU/CC was onto something and was maybe even the inevitable future. But things rapidly got very complex — the 08 crash, defunding, rising cost of education, higher ed's dependence on foreign students, ZONING
The disinvestment in post secondary education in the United States goes back a long way--my earliest familiarity is Reagan attacking University of California as governor and spreading that anti-education poison nationwide as president.
Things were bad long before the '08 crash - Tom Day tried to axe entire departments at SDSU - but the CSU system in general was a fantastic idea to democratize education. SDSU is STILL a great college for training teachers.
I just wish that tuition rates were lower, because I could afford to take classes just because they sounded interesting when tuition was about $700 per semester for 12 or more units. I routinely took 7 or 8 classes; and almost graduated with four minors as an unintended result.
End to inheritance as a thing that exists, imo.
UCs doubled in cost during the 4 years I was in undergrad
but that still doesn't address the total insanity that is consuming american politics around college admissions and "dei," which is highly focused on the most elite schools with relatively tiny undergraduate bodies, schools that are, for society, Brand Names before they are educational facilities
Well, and employers
People make broad assumptions about my race. Or, how I'm having trouble grasping the core of English language. Along with how I must be a f*cking Limey trying to hide it. Lewiston-Irish dialect.
I'm a trades school type trained in multiple programs. Administrative assistance, public relations, and hospitality. I've no regrets fir any of it. My Mum is Boston Irish and my Pop is Buffalo Irish and Russian.
it is possible for a society to distribute quality education in an equitable, fair, and accessible way. it is not possible to distribute hierarchical elite power in a similar fashion, because that's not how elite power works.
BUT Scott Kirby is on Squawk rn. United Airlines CEO. Air Force Academy and then a masters from GWU. Want to put his societal power, or his comp package, against yours or mine?
When I was hiring, it suddenly dawned on me: who do I want on my staff: the prep school drunk who graduated at the very foot of his Ivy class, or the first-in-family magna or summa from South Dakota State? NOT a hard call...
Before there were MBA my Dad hired at a bank. He wanted wide focus liberal arts hires. It showed they could learn, understood varied ideas. They would have many points of contact with customers. He needed 1-2 math majors and 10-12 people who could think. "The place is chock full of adding machines"
Yep. The advantage of elite colleges is the connections one can make that will help more than the actual degree. Same goes for Greek societies. I saw how that worked while in college. So disgusting!
Oh look. He needs more money as he gaslights his base and they do not realize they are in abusive relationship with their government. If you would like a new economic model where we recycle old tech and believe that people can be creative please join me. Check out my artwork.
Great analysis. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
And it’s not as though there’s a shortage of PhDs to do the teaching. They just can’t afford to have the job. The majority of faculty these days are contingent workers—many desperate to try to stay in the profession. Exploiting educators; exploiting students. It’s miserable.
I notice the prestige and pay college professors started plummeting as soon and women/minorities broke into the profession.
so did all the right wing whining about trigger warnings and safe spaces. the idea that the academy might become a safe space for anyone other than rich white men was more than most could handle.
Women told us about this 40 years ago. www.jstor.org/stable/3177761
Racism & bigotry are expensive both literally and for society.
Yes. Other than sports, music and sex work, the societal mindset seems to be that if White men aren't the dominant presence then that field isn't that important/valuable. And even in those fields, there's an understanding that the people in charge behind the scenes are White men.
idk, nba has rising level of eastern europeans and i don’t think it’s a coincidence. not saying those dudes aren’t good and don’t deserve the job, but i see a lot more white dudes on the court than i did 10-15 years ago
I’m not usually all that House Proud, but Cornell’s SUNY side (which I transferred into from a state school) is the best of it all. So many bright, poor folks I knew there did community college for 2 years and finished Ivy at SUNY rates.
We really must not let the MAGA/Trump crowd change the narrative from one where wealth inequality is the issue as is inequality in terms of access to Uni due to poverty. Instead they are attacking Unis based on an invented narrative of them being woke institutions. They mislabel the problem!👍
I think you are on point here. This is completely about preserving elite power and dominance-which “they” believe is the sole right of white men. I believe this is all backlash to the fact the people of color and women have dared to rise and get “too close” to that space.
honestly as a white person who is probably unable to attend these types of schools both due to money issues in my family + my severe disabilities i can just say i got a better quality education at an online public school than any prestigious academic program you'd have competitive admissions for
especially since these public schools seem to preserve a lot of radical intention + direct conversation with critical race theory queer theory feminist and gender theory postcolonial theory etc rather than the pedagogy of more elite "intellectual" private degree programs
A few thoughts: 1) Like health care, the profit motive needs to be stripped from education. Full Stop. 2) Dump the current competitive system for admissions where SAT scores determine the “quality” of the school you get into.
3) Hire faculty who want to teach - and compensate them decently for this. 4) Fund post-secondary education from the public purse as though it is a long term _INVESTMENT_ in the future. 5) Burn the student loan system to the ground - it’s become the new feudal binding.
I have never heard someone say it so completely and honestly as you do in your posts. I felt it when you said you loved your education but with it came a harsh reality--the acknowledgement of that double-edged sword is authentic, and it represents America to me: always a dirty cost for wonderful.
This post is great, thank you! I mean like. I'm pissed off at how terrible the state of education is, but I think it's pretty kick ass that the internet allows you to be heard and for me to hear you. Only by calling out bullshit when we see it can society ever be forced to change
Oh this is good
So good.
This is the key. Ivy Plus unis account for < 1% of US college students, but 15% of top 1% income, 1/4 US senators, 3/4 SCOTUS, etc.
* top 0.1%
great thread
The level of my resentment towards college, personally, has always just been a combination of timing and the structural issues. I graduated HS in 06, took a year to work and wind down from it, then the crash drained any hopes of financial aid (too poor to go, made too much to qualify).
I am begging you to turn this thread into an essay! We are in a moment of destruction for higher ed, which means at some point we’ll have a chance to re-do it. We can’t do that properly without examining what’s broken. Please write more on this!
I'll consider it if I get through my terrible to-do list! Though I have to say, this reply made me spiral about how the commentariat is chock full of people who went to better schools than me and somehow they aren't candidly making these points in public
it's one thing for the people who have never peeked inside the world of the elite institutions to not clock what's really going on, but the people with the ready access to opinion pages have the requisite lived experience!
I imagine that at least a subset of said commentariat also opposed student loan cancellation on dubious grounds. I’m not sure legacy admissions have the same lived experience at these institutions?
yes, I imagine plenty of them never quite understood that the plebs who had been admitted to their college were there to enrich their enclosure.
Sadly the California schools were set on this path by Reagan and it was well under way by the time I was a grad student at a UC in 2003.
Well the first step is certainly objectively stating the failures of the past, limited upward mobility into the upper class because of structural racism, and addressing the root cause These issues can be addressed by systematic elimination of class division
Can't have class antagonism if there is only one class
Additionally, if you're the kind of person who believes that truly all people were created equal then classism and class division are in direct conflict with that idea. You can't have both
That's how it was when I was there too (class of '92). But the pedagogy was important for the concentration and perpetuation of that power. Not necessarily in white hands—the most powerful of my classmates are a Black woman and a queer one! But the goal was to produce alums with that level of power.
If you weren't super powerful, you were part of the educational experience of the students who were. As, though, were the world-class faculty whose classes you could also take, because we still thought that wielding power responsibly helped accumulate more, so the powerful needed good educations.
Whiteness in this context was a tool, and a very effective one, for generating and maintaining power. But it was only a tool, and it was not the only tool.