Not in the slightest bit misogynistic, And please don't try to insult me, I support trans rights as much as you, But I am realistic when it comes to nature V nurture especially to physical strength, And why do you keep using a boxing analogy?
Not in the slightest bit misogynistic, And please don't try to insult me, I support trans rights as much as you, But I am realistic when it comes to nature V nurture especially to physical strength, And why do you keep using a boxing analogy?
I’m not. I’m criticising your argument. Pick any sport. What is it that makes men more physically strong than women of the same weight?
Testosterone and male puberty
So trans women take testosterone blockers… Puberty affects people in different ways. At some point we are comfortable accepting various phenotypical differences in sports.
Transwomen still benefit from male puberty.
As I said, there are loads of genetic and phenotypical advantages which can’t be accounted for. You going to exclude people of West African descent from sprinting? East African from distance?
No because that would be racist
Exactly. So we can tolerate a degree of genetic inequality in order to not be bigots.
Not when it threatens the safety, dignity and competition of women.
The inconsistency is obvious here no?
No. Sex-based categories are needed because of real biological differences between sexes that give males a huge performance advantage. Race is a social concept, not a biological one that affects athletic ability, so race-based categories would be both unfair and nonsensical.
Its a known fact that Kenyan athletes are superior than most at middle distance running because they train at altitude.
Come along now. You’d expect Nepalis to be excellent performers at distance then. Afaik not one Nepali long distance medal..
Just excellent climbers .
Who train at altitude…
*many trans women
Post-pubertal transition leaves most male advantage intact. Please see our paper which reviews the science: onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/...
What degree of inter group benefit would you be prepared to accept, given that a) there is clearly large genomic and phenotypic variation within groups and b) between groups? Or is this not really about notions of fairness?
I'm not opposed to adding categories if people want them. There could be height categories for basketball for example. They would still need to be within sex categories (as per weight categories) given that height for height & weight for weight males have a significant advantage over females.
That wasn’t the question. Should non trans women at the far end of the bell curve be banned from competing on the basis of fairness?
In female categories you mean? Yes, ofc. Small, overweight, unfit males at one end of a male bell curve, however they identify, should not be competing with females at the other end of the female bell curve. That would be quintessential unfairness.
Are you saying that women who have a greater aptitude for eg strength or speed be banned?
From competing with other women. At the other end, do you think that disabled women should not be able to compete with abled women if they so choose?
Women's sports are exclusively for women. Trans women are natal males. Just create a category for them. Stop invading our spaces. It seems that you really don't care about biological women. We too have rights.
No. Because they are female.
I suppose it's down to Mother Nature, ( basically) There’ll always be the odd exception to the rule, imagine if our brilliant lionesses ( football ) team played against the mens team, or Rugby, cricket etc, I'm not a gambling person but I'd bet my house on the men to absolutely thrash the ladies
Trans women are women. Reasons are here as is the standard debate. bsky.app/profile/brap...
100% agree, but there are generic differences which at this present time medical intervention isn't able rectify.
Like there are for East Africans at distance? Or West Africans at sprinting?
Sorry Dont understand this logic in this discussion
If we are banning women who take every step to level the playing field but still have some genetic advantage, then why doesn’t that apply to other sports where groups of people have a genetic advantage?
Didn't say banning from all sports Just professional one’s where an athlete will have maximised their physical capability. there will always be advantages in sports that's why they have weight divisions in combat sports,
Exactly. There are means of balancing out advantage without excluding whole groups. And we already tolerate some group’s genetic advantages.
In this case How would you ever let a top male football team play their equivalent in the female game .