we're all in agreement that if they really do throw everything they have at each other that Musk is completely fucked, right? this isn't a close contest, Trump can turn the entire power of the state on him and has shown no compunction about doing so a real coughing baby vs hydrogen bomb situation
Depends on how much dirt Musk has on Trump. Besides the tangerine man baby is not exactly great at getting its own way these days. How many of its proclamations have been banned by the courts recently?
theoretically Elon has the means to build a coalition of billionaires and foreign powers to challenge him, but that would require an aptitude for one-dimensional chess
If Stephen Miller or Steve Bannon take a page from Vlad's book, Elon should probably double his security detail, stay far away from open windows, and make all of his own food from now on.
But when someone has unlimited funds, doesn't that cut both ways? People would do a lot for a billion dollars.
Trump has all of the resources of the US government. Once he stops letting Musk in his orbit, it will be harder for Elon to do anything that could circumvent Trump's Secret Service detail. And even if he did, Secret Service would immediately take him down and we'd be stuck with President Vance.
Are you certain Trump's Secret Service detail hasn't already been bought? And there are other confounding features too. I'm not assuming anything has happened in that regard. But I'd be very surprised if *nothing* has happened. bsky.app/profile/iram...
Well, sure, anything's possible. But in theory, they're supposed to screen out folks who can be bought. That doesn't mean they have, if the world's richest man makes them an offer, or worse, coerces them by threatening their families, something I think I remember from an old season of 24?
In theory, yes, but I think the Secret Service has had problems for a while, and unlike Biden, Trump doesn't have a dog to screen the agents around him. I also imagine that unified database of everyone's private info that DOGE was trying to build is still in Elon's hands.
Unless Elon has the goods on Epstein facts and any evidence of election tampering
I'm reasonably sure Elon spilling the beans on those would entail self-incrimination in at least one of those cases, if not both.
Is Elon smart enough to consider that while in a ketamine haze, though? Hopefully not!
Yeah but musk can aim the rockets (that keep exploding) just a bit lower and they will hit mar-a-lago
which of his children and which decommissioned nuclear warhead?
The prospect of Trump using the full force of the Federal government as his personal cudgel should shake this country to the core. Elon deserves to have contracts terminated, not because he’s now against Trump but because he politicized himself so completely in the first place.
This whole episode is going to be just another chapter in how Trump and his minions and the whole MAGA movement are destroying the government and everything it stands (stood) for. Part of the jolting, steeply spiraling descent of America. This is what we have wrought upon ourselves.
He’ll fall out an open window soon with that attitude
Like two heavy weights pounding one another. There might be a winner, but both will get pounded
100%. There are few prominent business leaders *more* immediately at risk of their whole business model disappearing overnight without subsidies and contracts.
well, they could deport him and then he could launch a space shuttle into maralago i guess
the only advantage i see for Musk is that he has their twitter DM's. that could be his ace in the hole, and oh what a hole he has dug for himself.
MAGA’s been an unstable coalition for a while now. I’m gonna love watching these psychopathic clowns tear themselves apart.
I mean, shit, Musk is here illegally if you apply even half the legal scrutiny they've been subjecting hapless migrants to lately. If he really wanted to, he could have ICE frogmarch him to Louisiana.
Or coughing Memphis residents vs Apartheid Nepobaby www.politico.com/news/2025/05...
Musk can destroy u.s. global military communications and weapons targeting if he takes down Starshield.
Yes. It’s helpful to read up on Mikhail Khodorkovsky, the richest man in Russia when Putin came into power. A weaponized state wins in these showdowns.
Does Trump have enough true loyalists who won't fuck up basic details to actually leverage the insane amounts of power he has? They are basically sending one man to handle most of the immigration litigation right now.
Sorry, not in agreement: Musk has information, stuff that he's stolen over the last few months. Really important information. Trump, meanwhile, only knows what he hears on Fox, and even then he probably forgets what he heard or misinterprets it. Knowledge is power. Trump loses. But Musk loses too.
So you're saying Trump has to assassinate Elon in the dead of night before either the courts or any of Elon's henchboys have time to intervene.
Hmm, I was looking at this as more of a political power struggle, with a glance at the realization that defenestration is not a thing in the US, I guess. I don't anticipate violence. Naive Canadian, maybe.
Once again, I direct you to the fact that Elon Musk has access to every DM ever sent on Twitter. I don’t doubt that there is an encrypted pipeline for DMs, but once that data is at rest, we really don’t know who has the keys.
Elon peels off part of Trump's chud support base, Trump annihilates Elon from orbit, this could be a huge win-win
Fucked is extremely relative in this context. More likely to face meaningful legal ramifications? Musk. More vulnerable to political fallout? Trump. Likely to lose the most money over it? Musk. Likely to have less money at the end of it? Trump. Less likely to see 2027? Trump.
what exactly do you mean by that last one
That Donoldasballs Trulyawfuldiet will die soon regardless of interference.
Reopen all the federal investigations into musks companies :)
Not it they give Musk immunity to sing how he manipulated the tabulators in the swings states, to get him elected 🙏🙏🙏
I'm sure nobody in DOGE who works purely for Apartheid Failson has no incriminating data on Donald J. Trump, of all people
I dunno, disabling the entire IT infrastructure of the US gov't goes pretty far and Musk can do it with an email. ICE can't get Musk easily when they are faced with actual security measures, at least not without actual serious conflict.
I doubt Big Balls is willing to risk federal prison for Elon.
Yeah there are massive, serious risks on both sides for anything "real", which is why I kind of think this is going to fizzle out in a few days. But we'll see, it's uncharted territory for sure.
I get the impression you think that he hasn't already. ALL of the Doge stooges will have to spend the next 20 years looking over their shoulders.
I think it’s 10x more likely Trump prosecutes these guys for what they did at his behest than Democrats ever getting around to it.
Yeah, Garland's 4 years of standing around with his hands in his pockets gave no one any ammunition to dispute that assertion.
Except all his doge minions are wet babies who will cave the minute someone says jail
I doubt any of them have loyalty to Musk.
Why would it be ICE? Not sure which agency (FBI etc) would have jurisdiction here, but disabling an ex-employer's IT systems is clearly a criminal offence.
Naturalized citizens can have their citizenship revoked for certain crimes or if they lied on their paperwork, both of which are highly likely. That would make it easier for the government to seize his assets, and while DOJ can eventually take them, it takes a lot longer.
Would suggest it depends if folks are ready to put Vance into power. Trump could be impeached at any time if the money decides his time is up.
It's Mountainhead. He's going to try to launch the most ill-equipped coup since Juan Guaido
Elon could turn Trump's world upside down if he says that he rigged the election for Trump. He's fucked either way, but narcissists go burnt Earth when they feel threatened.
Does Trump have the entire power of the state? How many levers are under the control of Doge? Who are those Doge agents loyal to? How many impeachment votes could Musk buy? I think Trump has the upper hand but I don't think Musk is defenseless here Especially controlling the flow of information on X
Waiting for revelations about (alleged) hacking of vote counting in swing states. That is the ultimate weapon... and one that would throw everything into chaos.
Hes probably not even the richest man in the world after today.
Unless musk and DOGE boys have dirt. Like election fraud and/or Epstein files
Coughing baby vs hydrogen bomb is my new favorite name for a band.
trump actually controls the hydrogen bombs lol
so many government contracts at risk here. Shares of those companies have to tank tomorrow, right?
I think he's going to discover that his billions aren't the same as US state power
He may not have billions much longer if Trump really wants to fight.
If you can disinvest the Chinese from TikTok and ignore the law while doing it. You’ve got the power to deal with Starlink, SpaceX and Tesla.
But he just eviscerated the state and put back doors into every government agency including Treasury. Maybe he’s got the kill switch
The Doge purge is coming, but it might be too late
Everyone is awful and I will enjoy their downfall. Even if we all get melted down as a result.
Our meltdown is already baked in. Seeing them go down with us will be delicious
Trump doesn't even need to turn the full power of the state on him. If he just turns off the federal money spigot, Elon's cooked right there
Musk has a Twitter army. Trump has *checks notes* an army.
tbf that army dumped their own fighters in the ocean while losing to the Houthis
with even of modicum of restraint, de-facto & unaccountable OMB head Elon Musk would have the admin by the balls. This is wild lol
These two assholes deserve each other.
It's not even close
I get the sense this is mutually assured destruction gone awry.
Accidental overdose.
bsky.app/profile/brai...
Defense Production Act, we can just take it. Well, take over management, he can still technically own it.
It's Prigozhin driving his tanks towards Moscow. If he has the courage to bet every last dollar on it, Trump is weaker than he looks. But if Musk blinks, he's dead.
I dunno, I feel like Musk is rich enough to buy out enough people to cause problems, especially in a government this nakedly corrupt. The groundwork is already being laid in the media that Trump's in a steep mental decline, which would pave the way for his procedural removal from power.
Not if Trump freezes his accounts
That's a rational thought, but, consider international banking and the implications of a swiss bank account
My understanding is that the US has previously bullied a number of countries into passing laws requiring them to cooperate with the US government on banking matters, under the auspices of fighting money laundering. Idk if any country would be willing to stick out their necks for Musk.
Cryptocurrency might be a factor
Bitcoin and Etherium are falling which means people are liquidating those assets
Also considering how much Trump doesn't seem to know what is actually going on in his White House, Miller probably can give him that as something to keep him busy while he keeps his autocratic roll going.
Trump doesn't have his dictatorship locked in hard enough to start the defenestration of the oligarch class. Case in point: a bunch of republicans already flipped on the spending bill.
I think so. Although I’m not clear on the implications of something like this… bsky.app/profile/fint...
#TACO
I think this underestimates the true "behind the scenes" power and influence of Thiel and Andreesson. It's going to be a shitshow but I would hesitate to bet on the outcome
Both can threaten/destroy careers of elected R's. Musk/DOGE hold Swords of Damocles over major federal data stores, could ransom or irrevocably scramble them. Unclear how other oligarchs might align in a showdown. Not a clear mismatch.
people keep mentioning deportation but I'm putting my hopes and dreams on a Prigozhin situation
I kind of disagree. Musk is crazy but isn't working alone. Capital, specially some in Silicon Valley, is starting to turn on Trump. Tariffs, corruption and the whole rare earth blockage thing is starting to damage the wrong people. Musk is weaker, of course, but not toothless.
Trump can end Musk very quickly, but not trivial to do it in a way that doesn't do it in a way that doesn't cause real political damage in the medium/long term.
Musk is fucked, but he starts banning trump and his grifter’s accounts and pumping Grok with anti republican misinformation he can definitely do some damage to the Trump orbit.
I’m waiting for Elon to start suspending gov Twitter accounts in retaliation. Imagine killing that reach.
Given the sheer amount of money Musk has not really. He could literally just hire whoever the fuck to wage literal war. Trump depends on troops who hate him obeying his orders. He is complicit in bodying Veterans Affairs so they're kinda pissed. He's pushing people to their breaking point.
There's a non-zero chance Trump goes to his ultimate weapon in this: Treason. I could see Trump saying: "Elon Musk and his DOGE minions, in the process of reviewing government data, siphoned and stole personal data illegally of every living American citizen and are using it against us."
I think Trump has more cards, but I also think Elon can deliver a world of hurt. So, sad, hate to see it…🍿🤪
Musk's weirdo fans versus MAGA will be one hell of a slap off though.
I agree that the entire thing is a distraction and at best an attempt for Musk to rehab his image, which won't work.
Wasp sting nettle, nettle sting wasp, someone's going to be stung and we're here for it. The exact quote escapes me, but there was a line like that in one of the Discworld novels.
no way: trump is vulnerable in a million directions. musk *owns* his billions. trump is *borrowing* (stealing) the state. musk will never not be richer than 20% of the world together.
Not entirely correct. If Musk succeeds in getting that big bloated bill defeated that would be huge as would opening the Epstein files. Taco could still turn DOJ against Musk but there would have to be hard evidence. Judges have not been backing tacos unlimited power attempts.
EVERYTHING everything? Yes. But. We get into some very weird dynamics if the US government starts trying to prove it can take down someone that wealthy if it do chooses. I guess I'm wondering what happens if the rest of the billionaire class decides to show some class solidarity.
I think the opposite: they all protect their own assets under the regime such that Musk has to find the most manly possible way to surrender this fight completely before very long.
The rule about honor among thieves applies to the white collar variety, too.
There's no honor here
Ketamine's a helluva drug. Fuck yo couch!
I'm wondering what would happen to trumps favorability if musk went all in on making Twitter anti-trump? Would trump or Twitter break first?
Depends, how loyal are the DOGE bros? If they're still in place, especially in Treasury, they could really mess up Trump.
Since they're all incels, all Trump has to do to buy them off is offer them some prostitutes.
Unless Musk proves Trump's state power is illegitimate because we wasn't democratically elected, of course.
Doge boys implanted in the systems with back door access though
I think this will end with Musk being arrested and SpaceX being sold to Shotwell.
The Minnesota elections was the last in a long line of proof that everyone hates elon, but he'll never admit that so he'll go down in flames
Coughing baby? Remember that scene in ‘I, Claudius’ where Caligula was irritated by his nephew’s (?) coughing and had his head cut off?
Yes, but DOGE has been exfiltratating everything they can from the Federal government. "Oh, you didn't want the world to know every detail of every Trump company, every Trump subsidiary, and how Trump has been hiding billions of dollars. Whoopsie!"
I'm inclined to agree, but I don't think that would matter. Trump lovers will still live Trump regardless of what comes out about him. If they don't like it, they call it fake news and move on.
Wouldn't it be funny if Trump re-instated all the investigations into Elon, that he paid bigly money to make go away.
I mean Trump might take himself down taking Elon down but otherwise, yes I agree.
While it's probably beyond Musk's skill set, some of those DOGE folks he brought in probably could install ransomware on the systems they were given root access to. Which makes me think about Stuxnet. With the Trump admin using insecure and likely compromised devices...
...I imagine all kinds of intelligence services have infected the US government systems. A dozen countries might have installed overrides the US nuclear arsenal.
one can only hope
Absolutely, but I also think Elon will go down throwing all the info DOGE has collected into the public domain, as well as anything shady he's been funding for the GOP, and will have zero compunction about doing do.
But Musk had access to all the government data and his hands in the software. He has a backup plan. This is what we in federal government have been screaming about. Trump gave Musk the keys to everything. You think he did that out of the kindness of his heart
What do your think he could do, exactly?
Resign
You may have misunderstood the question
I just reread your question. I think he can profit on the data he mined. Using it in AI modeling. And, no telling what the DOGE douces are doing with the software. Connecting servers without approval, modifying code, back doors into the systems? Who knows. They had access with little oversight.
Considering his big “bomb” reveal was a “no shit, Sherlock” moment… yeah. There might be an old codger somewhere in Topeka who was surprised, but that is about it.
Don't completely discount whatever info and access Musk wormed his way into over the past few months. He'd still be screwed, but might be able to do significant damage on the way down.
I mean, remember all the things that DOGE got access to, and who Elon's fash kiddies are actually loyal to? And the utterly absurd amount of money Musk has versus Trump. I'm not saying it's a fair fight, but I don't think he's a coughing baby.
I feel like I'm not 100% sure b/c I don't know how to calculate what someone with the brain of a 4chan poisoned 13 year old boy and unlimited money would do if he had nothing else to lose. like Trump probably wins in the end but if neither of them chickens out this could get W I L D
I wanna see which direction the various courtiers with the fiefdoms trump has handed out jump. Miller will probably oppose Elon for personal reasons But, if Trump decides to forget the whole thing and move on, (which, he either does GRUDGES or he walks things back taco style) what does *that* do?
Trump gives up on this one, I can see him getting drummed out and replaced by Vance
I guess we’ll just have to wait for Thiel to choose
I think Trump wins most of those contests just because he has more to offer all of their venal followers. He can promise cushy, important sounding jobs that have actual power - Elon doesn't have a big supply of those.
Trump has betrayed everyone who has ever worked for him, yes, but his hangers-on are too greedy and short-sighted to notice. I don't think even this will stop people from supporting Trump in the hope of material rewards.
Agreed. The amount of glitching brain that 47 will display publicly as the feud continues has the potential to be consequential in the longer term. Or at least we can hope. I'm rooting for this to drag on for weeks, though the way it's escalating, I don't know if that's possible.
I’m pretty surprised the bromance lasted this long, I thought they’d turn on each other before the inauguration, so you never know ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Well, it's probably Peter Thiel behind these attacks on Musk. Look at the way Trump just hinted that Musk is part of the Black Eye Club.
This is the hope. Fingers crossed, it might fuck both of them royally
It's a mutual assured destruction, though. Yes, Trump can end Elon. But not without causing an economic meltdown that will tank his own presidency.
Yes, but making soulless congressional Republicans choose will break the coalition unless Trump neutralizes Musk.
elon, if you’re reading this, micah was just kidding. we all think you would definitely win and you should keep going.
Yeah, it'll be just like with twitter, you'll totally show them elon. totally.
Yeah, Elmo! You can take him! Hit him back.
I mean yeah it’d still be mad funny
I suspect Musk will have more punch than you think just based on having enough money that every banker and CEO has to answer the phone when that guy calls But it very much won't be enough
Elon claims a literal toddler gave him a literal black eye the other day.
How many of Musk's assets can the government seize? Not lawfully, of course, but practically?
Not the ones that only really exist on paper, I know that much He's dumped a bunch into crypto, for instance
His wealth based on his stock holdings is so heavily based on the perception of Musk. The less people think he'll come out unscathed, the lower his net worth goes.
Oh absolutely, but even beyond that he still has a bunch of stuff that's worth a lot of money, especially after the last rounds of Starlink contracts I don't think he wins, but I do think he has the resources to do damage Which is good for the rest of us
I mean, see below. Musk seems extremely vulnerable to state power -- and don't forget how he has so many things secured by Tesla stock (like Twitter stake), and crashing stock prices can force him to sell or commit more stock as collateral. bsky.app/profile/fina...
It'll be funny Judge Jeanine will be filing the cases as the US Attorney.
I think that depends on how many backdoors DOGE has on important government systems and how nuclear Elon would be willing to go.
Unless Musk can prove he helped Trump and several other republicans illegally cheat their way into office… Which I’m betting he can Then it’s mutually assured destruction
I don't think it will be a crippling blow or anything, but the repost bots of trump's truth social tweets have more followers each than the total number of accounts on truth. Musk shadowbanning those or otherwise disrupting that flow could do something. Not a ton but that was how he got into the WH
Trump has a pretty big issue with the fact he doesn't quite fully control his propaganda network. Inorganic troll farms and bots are a huge part of his amplification, and he has zero control over that. Musk does. He showed his hand during the election last year. Using that vs trump could hurt
This guy was one of the richest men in Russia until Putin felt like throwing him in jail en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail...
Somehow, he managed to make it out with his life, though, because he was on camera for the Netflix documentary about the Cold War (in the last episode or two about after the breakup of the USSR)
Putin eventually pardoned him and he left Russia
It was fascinating to see clips like this on screen one after the other: "He was probably one of the most rapacious..." and then (paraphrased) "Look, I just wanted people to do a competent job running these companies."
Elons last ace is "I hacked the election you should have lost" but even then, nothing will change. Unless he openly offers to pay 1b for Trump's head. Which, I mean, it could happen.
I can’t help but think this is all theater to distract from some other terrible thing that’s happening but they don’t want anyone to notice. I’ve become so pessimistic
100%
I mean, not a close contest, but the chance that Elon could buy enough R votes to wrangle a “let’s replace the mad king with JD Vance” impeachment is not zero
I would agree, except Elon has his little pea pickers in a lot of confidential information now, not to mention all the information that DOGE mined.
That's making an assumption that Elon's access to the U.S. servers did not include installing code-triggered malware or spyware as well as reportedly having gov data extracted and taken offsite. He also has relationships with world leaders, like Xi.
Yeah but this is when we find out that DOGE has slipped a little bit of Russia into everything they've touched, when Trump suddenly backs off and says that Elon's been great all along.
Yeah, the Epstein shit is beginner level; we all pretty much knew that anyway. If Elon starts in on the state secrets angle it's gonna get a lot messier.
I do think that the bigger stuff implicates Elon himself, though, and I’m not sure he’s that self-destructive.
K-hole Elon is!
A hyper-capable and forward-thinking Bond villain could have corrupted enough of the command and control systems to be a major threat. Musk is not that villain.
Okay but most of the DOGE boys were Thiel associates - so I’m less worried they will do anything to help Musk, more worried that they did embed some shit for an actual Bond villain (PT)
Oh yeah, the systems are definitely fucked, and C&C has seemingly already been reduced to whatsapp and gossip chains, but Musk by himself probably can't subvert those.
He has instead put himself in a position to be blamed for any breakdowns in critical systems.
Yeah, that's more what Thiel has been doing. Musk is just an idiot who has more money than sense.
Lex Loser
Le Whiffre
Ernst Blohard
Hugo Sux
Total agreement. It's pitting a Victorian Orphan against a machine labeled "The Orphan Grinder". But, it's still morally acceptable to point and laugh when the orphan is a virulent racist and Nazi.
I ain't complaining if Musk Rat takes a massive L. He's responsible for our current situation and this heel turn wouldn't redeem him.
Yes but I think Musk can wound him in process.
Yes, but how much damage can Elon do with the DOGE kids' backdoors?
Shutting off starlink would cause a massive amount of damage and some death but it would also mean Elon would be a target for several nation states, some of which have shown a willingness to spend years to drop a drone right on your plane.
also Starshield
Trump could just have Elon deported to El Salvador given that Elon broke the terms of his student visa and thus likely never legally completed the naturalization process.
Like at the end of the day, Musk is just Really Fucking Rich. Trump has the actual power here. There a multiple ways that he could just…disappear Musk or “make it look like an accident”, if he so wished.
Musk just needs to switch off skynet and he can leave America powerless. Which is why he should never have been given the contract in the first place. I think that they've both got nuclear options.
Granted but the fact Donny is sliding into dementia is a factor. So is Elons use of ketamine.
I dunno; let's not underestimate the power available to literally the richest man in the world. That can buy quite a few agents of the state, especially the already-corrupt ones that Trump would have to use to target a citizen.
I dunno, Musk can easily set up camp in some Emerate somewhere and spend his infinite money making Trump's life miserable
Musk has dirt or he wouldn't be so bold.
Trump is Suge Knight with state backing
some say, a prophet
the only thing Elon has is the information nerve center of the global right
I mean, probably? Would not put it past Elon to bribe JD and half the cabinet to 25A the motherfucker, though Either way, time to buy popcorn at Costco
They’d run the risk of making Elon a martyr though and they’d cripple their political power in the long term.
That is correct, which is why it was never really going to get that “juicy”.
I really feel like people are forgetting about twitter a bit
Oh absolutely; he's got nowhere to turn given he just spent months alienating every country not the US Thing is though that they're gonna probably use Musk as an object lesson to keep all the other powerful US billionaires in line
Mentally challenged orange imbecile versus Bond level super villain… I don’t know, US Presidents don’t usually do well in these scenarios in the movies…
elon deportation arc
that's the dream, send him right back to the emerald mine, freeze his bank accounts etc
Musk is still a citizen of Canada as well. I'm pretty sure Carney has neither the authority nor the tyrannical impulse to wield immigration in the way that Trump does, and that's a good thing. 😌🇨🇦
oh he's going to el Salvador
groims i dun won apartheid anymoor groims. pls cum git me
groims call me mum, oice is comin ti pick me up groims
i’m in fucking tears
for HOURS now
This marks the first time I've been in favor of sending someone to Gitmo.
I mean my understanding is SCOTUS said Trump could sick seal team 6 on musk and it'd be perfectly legal, no?
Also, Trump is the one who cannot be touched by the law.
Plus, there's a strong feeling that Republican officials hate Musk, but also fear him only because of his media influence. But Trump offsets that easily. If the alpha goes for blood, there will not be a pinch of Elon left after all is said and done.
Yeah and Trump’s supporters don’t care if he’s in the Epstein files. If he was going to be charged because of it it would have happened already.
He can maybe bribe enough of the cabinet into using the 25th amendment. They hate him but they don’t hate money
There’s still time for Musk to get on that rocket to Mars!
musk has twitter to fight back with. plus he’s already withheld 100m from the campaign, he could turn the spigot off. but what else does he have to fight with? trump dngaf if he hurts the country out of petty spite by say, canceling spacex contracts.
There’s a big competence gap though. Not many people in the administration know how to do anything.
But that won't stop Musk. The man sees himself as bulletproof. Plus, if he can cause some damage on the way into self-destruction, I say he goes all in.
He isn't even 5-year-old proof.
I mean, they did just spend the first half of the year installing backdoors into every critical government system, so I think its bad all around
We agree. As dumb as Trump is, Musk is clearly a complete idiot. He is totally fucked here. There is no beating Trump at this kind of thing so long as he is president. Hard to understand why Musk didn't just buy him off again, but whatever. Glad to see him get fuckef.
I do think starlink/spacex, both of which the government has no easy replacement for, are the biggest levers Musk has if it goes that far, then we might really hit the cool zone and Trump people start talking about "nationalizing them in the name of national security"
bsky.app/profile/cath...
Musk also has Twitter and no scruples when it comes to pushing the algorithm to do what he wants and the media tends to follow because they think Twitter trends are an indication of what people think.
Small small chance of a third lever if it existed: concrete evidence of tampering with the 2024 election in favor of trump with Trump's knowledge. If it exists, which isn't likely (both the action and the evidence)
I mean, musk is not essential to SpaceX so at a certain point, Shotwell can likely figure out a way to force him out
"Make him take a drug test" seems like the easiest path
All it takes is one executive order to kick this off. Miller probably already has it written up.
Starlink is probably harder than space launch, tbh. But the USG still has older comms backbones and more expensive launch options. Without the USG spacex has starlink as a customer. It’s lose-lose, but even if spacex isn’t nationalized, trump wins here.
Hook trumans corpse up to a turbine if that happens
I don't think it's clear at all. Musk's DOGE project may have backdoors into the entire government communication and data and intel....I mean that's not nothing. He also has a GOP Congress that are super venal, and the deepest pockets in history.
He does not have the guns. His doge minions also do not have the guns, and they will obey whoever does
Musk has his own security people, and isn't from the US. Would be hard for Trump to touch him.
If he presents an actual threat to national security, or even a fake but believable one, he better have his own nuclear stockpile. This is not hard to understand
Trump has Vance, and probably most of GOP Congress critters, and maybe more depending on the files and data he was able to get at.
He can’t easily pay them if the U.S. puts sanctions on him, like we just did to four ICC judges.
Could he not also have some software embedded in our federal databases now though?
It’s really starting to hit me how many people do not understand the nature of political power and what it grows out of
It's much simpler than that. An off-the-record meeting with the SECDEF followed by a press release from Amazon announcing a merger between SpaceX and Blue Origin, Amazon Space Logistics or whatever the new company will be called www.wusf.org/2023-05-29/t...
Is someone in the Whitehouse roof yet tearing out Starlink?
The defense production act says "fuck off" to Elon trying to leverage SpaceX against the USG. There is no version of this that doesn't result in Elon getting fucked badly. Especially given spaceX's historically relaxed relationship with following regulations for handling of itar/classified info.
Also Trump already stacked key roles in DOJ, defense, FBI, etc with loyalists who don't give a shit about the rule of law. Trump also doesnt care how much he fucks up the country to come out on top. No starlink? No space missions? Any damage to US capabilities? Irrelevant to his decision.
This is actually the one time where vigorously enforcing the law (specifically, the Bond Amendment) would get Trump what he wants. And of course he’s purged NSD of competent lawyers so he won’t be able to.
What if socialism born of vengeful rage?
I’d prefer everyone to have social services, but gotta start somewhere I guess
Could Musk actually retain control of spacex if the government went scorched earth on him via debarment?
without USG contracts SpaceX/Starlink ceases to exist without SpaceX/Starlink, i'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed, but 4-8 years down the line USG barely notices the difference
Okay, so who really needs a rocket program ricky tick?
possibly guys on a space station, and troops and spies suddenly not having comms for a few days or weeks as they scramble to switch off starlink could be rough. that's about it
I was just thinking it'd be funny if Musk defected to North Korea. But now I'm remembering he doesn't know anything about rocketry.
Yeah, starlink could mess with Ukraine’s capabilities because Ukraine couldn’t stop them. But they’re physically in the US, DOD would just take what it needs if it comes to that and NASA could make do
Awww yeah make the Cato Institute's heads absolutely explode when Trump nationalizes a quarter trillion dollars' worth of private corporations.
What about malware attacks on internal systems?
I mean the DPA and related things are right there. If the military needs something it can just go *pluck*
There's also a certain issue with timing. If this is an all-out fight for survival and Elon isn't bankrupt by this time next year, he's going spend hundreds of millions of additional dollars against Trump and his allies in the election. Same goes for 2028
Musk also has a bunch of allies in tech. Do they want to go war with this administration? Probably not. But if they see the government destroy Elon and his companies I'm willing to bet that they start organizing to prevent it from happening to anyone else, same as we saw with schools and law firms
Musk is genuinely a national security risk so charging him and forcing him to sell wouldn’t be out of the question.
True, but so is Trump
Well yes but he’s in charge and has immunity so that doesn’t matter at the moment
Is John Roberts having second thoughts yet? 😡
As long as he can keep making life harder for Black people, he’s good with it
As long as he can do that while still being invited to the nicest parties, anyway. He's not some mouth-breathing yokel, after all.
The fact that he was smoking weed on Rogan while probably having a security clearance is probably enough to get the board to oust him from SpaceX.
In the good old days, hiring someone so toxic you have to fire them and nationalize their company 4 months into your term as president would sink you politically, lol
My response here is the same one I give when someone claims Trump will seize absolute power: There is zero historical evidence that a Trump-led administration has the necessary focus, competence, and willpower to succeed at an effort of that scale. Musk won't win. But lol to Trump crushing him.
This is what I’ve been wondering. Trump could literally seize Musk’s space ships and satellites in the name of eminent domain. Deport him and call it civil asset forfeiture? My wife says TACO but I dunno, man.
Trump is more than willing to use violence to accomplish his goals, and he HATES when someone tries to make him look stupid. I don't think there's any question that, if this escalates, Trump just confiscates all of Elon's assets and throws him in prison or deports him.
Things are starting to feel awfully cool!
If it actually gets to that point, I suspect it's a combination of "nationalize SpaceX/Starlink" and "denaturalize Elon and send him to CECOT." Outside chance that if Elon threatens to shut of US military access to Starlink, Trump charges him w/ treason.
Idk man feels like that would trigger some sort of watershed moment. How much of his support are those “Elon is a genius, I’m a libertarian!” types? A high percentage.
What if the government just takes them away from him? Anything goes at this point.
I would not be shocked if Miller wasn't getting telegram chats from Bezos right now
Sure. But Banana Republic Trump can just eminent domain them.
That's when the DNC is gonna step in on Elon's side
"We might hate him, but property rights are sacred!" --Matt Yglesias
Oh he doesn't have those levers being from South Africa. If he gets his citizenship revoked and sent packing the government is going to eat all his assets and he'll have nothing. Which I love for him so much.
They can yank his citizenship, and then put sanctions on him so that he can’t use the banking system (or is forced to use China’s), which I love for him.
I regret to inform you that Bannon is pushing for it:
Trump’s gonna throw Elon in the wood-chipper.
I think the power of the twitter propaganda arm isn't nothing either.
This assumes Trump will act rationally on behalf of the US government and the American people. He will not...
Trump would absolutely "national security" into the government taking over starlink/SpaceX. He has done that exact move for far less. Genuinely the Democrats should send someone to be in his ear and tell him that to be strong he needs to create government organizations to replace both.
I think Musk controls the purse, and the real reason the GOP has fallen in line isn't as much fear of Trump as fear of Elon’s money. In this schism, the elected GOP will support Musk’s cash flow. Appointed MAGA will stay loyal to Trump. Trump loses when congressional Republicans grow some courage
I mean Trump can throw DOJ at him, cut contracts, cut his security clearance, hell maybe revoke his passport, send ICE to his factories... but prolly they'll kiss and make up soon. Why risk it?
I think it is a close contest. No, don't agree.
meanwhile, the harkonnen assassin bricked up inside the walls of the oval office feels his phone buzz
🤞
if only there was some way for the people to salt the deep emotional wounds these two have suffered, shriveling any chance of resolution
I don't know, because I think Elon has wedged enough people into places that Trump can't guarantee that his team hold all the cards. Trump is a weak, old man who has failing mental acuity, and that might be enough for people to change allegiance. Yes it would be treasonous, but only if Elon loses.
I think this operates on the assumption that Musk is more of a clever tactical operator than he is.
I'm not assuming anything about Elon, only that bullies are cowards and that it's not obvious that Trump necessarily has the power.
Musk just has soooo much money… He could send his minions to every GOP member of congress and tell them he’s putting a billion dollars into destroying them in the mid-terms if them don’t turn on Trump
Nobody has more money than the national guard showing up to repossess your money things.
And don't forget that a lot if not most of Musk's money is purely hypothetical. He's not liquid and the longer the feud goes, the more his stocks collapse.
Yeah his actual worth is dependent on the mercy of a lot of shadow stakeholders in these companies. He’s basically their human shield. He doesn’t have enough money to buy an army or even to keep security that would defend him from the state. They’d walk.
Like this idiot needs to look across the water to see what happens to oligarchs who think they can intimidate the state.
Conversely… Elon: “I rigged the election on Trump’s authority. Here’s the proof.”
He would have to implicate himself to do that. I expect that is one Ace that will remain up his sleeve.
He’ll do it if he’s otherwise f’ed. Nothing to lose at that point.
Maybe it *doesn’t* matter, but I would enjoy the F out of it. And maybe it does matter.
I don't see either of these guys as MAD guys, and that would be MAD.
I think this is too much to hope for, if "Big Balls" and company are typical of the talent Musk would try to hire for the purpose (and I think they are).
Congressional Republicans have to actually care for that to matter
At least until the next election anyway, and that leaves plenty of time for voters to forget
You only need a few percent to continue to care to get huge swings in outcomes.
Trump’s base will believe he’s being framed for that if they are told to…I think they’d do the same with damning Epstein evidence, but there is slightly more a chance they’d turn on him for that.
OMG please that would be wonderful
Elon goes to jail for that. Trump is not going to pardon that.
I honestly don't think that would matter
Oh for sure; but Musk might have enough dirt, enough dumbshit worshippers and enough money to seriously fuck over Trump on his way down.
A coughing baby can kill one hell of a lot more people than a hydrogen bomb can, now that RFKII is in charge of vaccines
As long as you can't buy politicians in the US Trump will win. Oh wait.
I am a loving father but I do not mind seeing this baby dropped
www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R-r...
Elon knows things. Very bad things.
The MAGA cult are immune from fact, so they will pivot and it won't make an impact.
Things worse than people already know or suspect about him? I doubt it. I think we need to stop expecting normal standards to apply in these abnormal times
Trump is going to throw a bunch of transparent revenge actions against Trump. They will fail because he and the administration have no discipline.
if elon’s big bomb is “trump is in the epstein files” he’s going to be sad to discover you could release a sex tape of donald and his daughter and his base would *leap* to defend it as “a tried & true tradition of western civilization that ensures the survival & cultivation of a noble bloodline.”
Especially when he apparently has the tax returns of every American. He could fulfill a 2016 campaign promise.
uh, i don’t think “trump tax returns revealed” is gonna bring the regime to a halt right now.
This post convinced me that my mind can imagine nothing so horrifying as a Donald Trump sex tape.
You’re forgetting the rumors that Chris Christie had starred in a porno (It turned out to just be a guy who looked alarmingly like him)
unclear how you both moved from the concept of “trump incest tape” to “chubby guys are gross when nude” but i assure you you’re missing the point here.
No no; speaking as a chubby guy who is often nude myself, that plays no role in my aversion. I just find Trump so loathsome as a human being that the thought of him engaging in an act which brings him any sort of pleasure creates visceral disgust in me, above and beyond the incest thing.
the thing that would make a Chris Christie sex tape horrifying is not his weight but the fact that he's Chris Christie and therefore a disgusting person. a Tom Cotton or Josh Hawley sex tape would be just as hideous.
..and you know what was discovered by allowing Royals to inbreed?..that genetic defects get quickly manifested in the offspring... Perhaps we have a collision between reality and somebody's vision of a universe based on the last comic book they read.
@link.spacelawshitpost.me
lol what in the fuck are you talking about??
sorry, the pronoun Somebody is aimed at the Trumpers making excuses for really bad psychotic, degenerate and deviant behavior by Donlione and members of his administration...its true,,Inbreeding leads to increase rates of all sorts of defects in the human body. Its real bad science to inbreed humans
Just like that Apu leaping to take a bullet Elon/weird nerds meme.
Good ole fashion racist America dunderheads outnumber shitty little crypto creeps like 50 to 1. Elon does not have a posse, that’s for sure
elon has personally helped build the machinery that made trump functionally immune to scandal you disarmed your own weapon before you fired it, buddy
The wrinkle is Musk (seems to have) embedded loyalists in the regime. He's out of Trumps circle, but it's not clear to me yet that he's locked out of executive power, and there's really no telling what the consequences of that are
Also, the fact that Trump really could utterly destroy Musk in every way means Musk might be desperate. This is an unhinged man with unlimited money who's constantly on drugs. There's a non-zero chance he tries something really crazy like putting a hit out on Trump. Which almost certainly fails.
All he has to do is require Musk pass drug tests. 😆
But. it's yet another risk that Trump has created for himself.
It depends. Musk now not-so-subtlely called for Trump's impeachment. If that gains steam on Twitter, maybe some ambitious Republican picks that up and runs with it? The Epstein thing *is* a Conservative pet-issue. *And* they get the prospect of Musk funding their reelection.
definitely had this same thought. but don't tell Elon lol
Middle aged man with wiffle bat vs old man with 9 mm.
Trump has already demonstrated what his base will allow him to do
I mean, in theory Donald Trump could completely wreck Elon by cancelling all his federal contracts and subsidies instantaneously with no warning and limited legal recourse but, i mean, there's certainly no way the person running the federal government would do anything that rash and impulsive.
