It would be a thousand times better for Labour and for Britain if the national debate were about whether to rejoin the EU or not, rather than how hard to punch down at immigrants. Instead, Labour chose to propagate Farage's argument for him by accepting it had SOME validity and trying to nuance it.
And it's all such a nonsense! Excellent for preying on the insecurities of people who have suffered under Brexit & austerity, hopeless for actually running the country - a fact surely even Farage realises. The country will implode if there are mass deportations. What are his real policies?
So true!
Rejoining would solve the migrant issue overnight.
Strategically dumb and morally bankrupt. I've moved from Labour supporter to detesting what they now "stand for".
The “island of strangers” speech legitimizes Farage. Don’t be surprised about what happens next - full blown anti-foreigner Trumpism
Exactly and inexplicably this.
Keep hearing So called Labour voices saying they don’t like what Labour is doing and will be forced to vote reform ! Wtaf! What Leftie would ever do this???!!! 🤔
Why choose to play an away game when you can call the shots on you home turf?
Might be significantly better if it were about the impending AMOC collapse and how to restructure our culture to be resilient in the face of biophysical collapse, don’t you think?
No. Eyes will glaze over up and down the country. You'll never win an election with the environment as the top priority.
And yet biophysical collapse will lead to extinction. Which none of the cultural trivia is likely to do So how do we make it the single most important issue-given this is what it is? My theory is that we never offer a viable alternative. It’s not boring. It’s terrifying but behavioural change/
/never arises unless there’s a route to take. Small boats is an easily defined problem with a clear answer. It’s easy. Poly crisis is hard. And yet it’s the one thing that matters. So finding routes to a flourishing future and showing early steps is the way forward.
It's the kind of issue that can inspire extreme passion in a small minority, but never enough concern in the ten million or more voters a party will need to attract to win an election.
It will never be the most important issue. The horizon for disaster is simply too long term. The best you can hope for is that it will gradually move up the agenda as more immediate concerns are alleviated.
You understand the proximity of AMOC collapse and its repercussions. What could possibly matter more?
You're on a road to nowhere with your argument because you're focused on the wrong problem. The right problem is "How do we win ten million votes?" The environment is not the answer.
Ok, we’ll agree to disagree while we can do so amicably. There are no voters on a 10C warming planet. So my sense is that the existing system is not fit for purpose and we need urgently to build a new one. Playing w a few votes in a dead system seems like a waste of bandwidth. But good luck
Is this a system you could get behind? yorkshirebylines.co.uk/politics/sor...
Not alone, but Rupert, Morgan and I recently co-write s book on Transformative Adaptation. So I’m familiar with the ideas. And yes, they’re a good start. 😃
Absolutely.
They're so quick to dismiss the validity of any argument for rejoining though. I don't normally approve of 'red lines', but I would accept one that said "we won't become modern day Nazis"
Starmer's too frit to even mention the word Brexit
👏👏👏
You can't nuance being racist. We now have three racist parties fighting over the 'Gammon' vote?😠
Labour is a nest of weasels led by a rat.
It's not just the USA that have had a silent coup is it?
There is no validity for creating concentration camps. None.
Or paying the effing Taliban ffs They’ll only kick out even more people if they do that. Imagine, à British ‘party’ leader funding the Taliban. Will he be adopting their policies too 🤬
Discriminating against women and minorities? I think you'll find Reform policies are broadly aligned with the Taliban already.
Yup 😞
Whilst trumpeting about protecting 'our' women and girls from forriners
Labour should focus on real issues like EU membership instead of giving Farage’s anti-immigrant narrative legitimacy.
I would be happier if Labour were trying to join the EFTA.
Immigration is a minor issue. Brexit has done untold damage to the UK. The ridiculous far right objective is costing us about £50billion a year. The stupid among us will vote to let Farage deliver carnage in the UK that will make the impact of Brexit seem insignificant. We will all suffer.
I’m still in total shock that this is a Labour government doing this.
It is shocking that this is happening under *any* UK executive. But I agree that this Labour cabal have gone well beyond my already low expectations before they were elected. Idiocy of 'Make Brexit work' ensured my non vote - but so much more moral bankruptcy has evolved beyond any expectations
Yes, it’s desperate Tamara 🥹
Trying to fight hype, misinformation and outright lies with nuance has never worked, sadly. Labour is still running scared of the tabloids, or perhaps (and worse) actually think this
How much longer before Brits put together that Brexit was orchestrated by the same man who is puppeteering trump and Netanyahu toward race-based fascism? Putin is behind all the division between democratic countries. He wants them isolated and weak so he can ruin them.
Oh thousands of us knew what he was is and wants to be the disgusting part is that others didn’t research his track record way back
It is very depressing indeed. Businesses having to pay loads of money in export licences but 'immigrunts' are bad people www.theguardian.com/business/202...
And they're doing the same with immigration/refugees
At some point you're just gonna have to come to terms with the fact that Labour are evil, fascist bigots and aren't just doing all this evil stuff to try to appeal to a farage voter.
The problem is that the United Kingdom has no real and genuine political coherence or stability, so the country itself isn't in a position to actually discuss this.
The Labour PLP is full of Strangers to me . Zionists & Genocide Deniers . Attacking our Disabled . Neoliberal Flag Shaggers !
Rejoining the EU will not deal with the principle problems facing Britain.
Sure it will. It will show that reality must win in the end, and that voting for something doesn't change that reality. Of course whether the lesson actually sinks in is another matter.
Reality? Most Remainers rejected Corbyn's attempt to negotiate a compromise with May to remain part of the Customs Union. Now Starmer, who was even then conspiring against him, doesn't even offer that. That's the reality.
WEAK
Labour is terrified of the EU, denying that full membership (if they’ll have is) would improve life for everyone. 🇪🇺🇬🇧
The longer it goes on the more you realise Starmer isn't really very political at all. He was chosen by McSweeney as the straight man (are you allowed to say that these days), the opposite of the party loving, economy wrecking, Tories. In our attention economy it's nowhere near good enough.
He and Labour will be gone in 2029, and in departing they will also bury brand Labour forever.
I pray 🙏 for an outcome where Labour is the largest party but without a majority, and so compelled to form a coalition or confidence & supply agreement with (probably) the LibDems.
It's a dangerous game though particularly given Labour will have caused a full on recession by the time of the next election. Farage will be quick to exploit that recession on his march to no. 10.
I suspect that the only way we can get to PR, like every other European state bar Belarus, is when a major party is forced to seek support from a minor party which makes that support conditional on it.
Why can't you say straight man?
Starmer and Reed are simply not up to the task.
At the moment they certainly aren’t. Where’s his leadership & condemnation? Why haven’t they tackled the press/media & their constant platforming of Far-rage ?
Just wait until one of those cherished by your kind ''refugees'' r***s and blinds you or anyone close to you. Let's see then what kind of a talk you speak then, ignorant imbecile.
I know full well that rejoining the EU isn't something we can decide to do unilaterally. It will take lengthy negotiations, humility on our part, and extensive goodwill on both sides to pull off. But the decision to TRY is something that is under our exclusive control. The first step is ours.
And, if nothing else, the mere suggestion of Shengen & the Euro will distract certain types from the forrins and boats.
Precisely. Any argument is better than fighting over immigration.
A lack of EU goodwill is an issue. Cake-ist Brexit types insist the EU refused to be flexible & shot themselves in the foot by closing ranks & designating the UK a 3rd country (despite the UK losing its own leg in the process, refusing to pay gym subs but still expecting access to the pool!).
Cakeist Brexit types are irrelevant. They don't even need to feature in the conversation. And shouldn't.
Yes - yet they still dominate much of the media dialogue (!)
And one leading to that is admitting that it's a total failure and not to bury your head and think you can make it work
If we try, we may fail. If we don't try, failure is guaranteed. So, are we going to spend the next decade or so trying to work out how to "filter" the population to remove immigrants (Farage's agenda)? Or are we going to expend that energy on something worthwhile rather than soul-obliterating?
Sadly although I tried to give labour the benefit of the doubt at the election their actions have not surprised me .
I didn’t give them the benefit of the doubt and reached the same conclusion … if it quacks & walks like a duck that’s what it is! Labour, Reform & Tories all pulling the migration debate in the same direction …
Oh I agree . Didn’t vote for Labour or Tory etc
Would touch Reform with a 300 mile pole fyi
Morgan McSweeney doesn't seem to have heard of the Overton window.
Blue Labour 🐔🐔🐔🐔🐔🐔
Farage is well aware of the disaster that is brexit. He is also very aware that by spouting his latest, foul rhetoric, he's diverting people away from his past failures. He's such a devious, nasty example of humanity gone wrong. Sadly, he isn't being properly challenged by Starmer et al.
Or most journalists, or media.