Greens aren't going to form the next govt. Maybe they could get a few more MPs then they have. It will either be Labour/LD coalition, or Reform, that will be the choice..and with Greens and Corbyn/Sultana taking loads of votes in various towns and cities...that just makes a Reform govt more likely.
You're still talking as if Labour is a party of the left. It isn't. People need to get that out of their heads. It is now a neoliberal party. It's not even pretending to be anything else. We need to end this myth that it's the Tories and Reform on one side, Labour and the other parties on the...
... other. No. It is the Tories, Reform and Labour on one side. Once we accept that's the change Starmer has wrought on the Labour Party, then we can start thinking sensibly.
ok...whatever. That is a very bluesky point of view.
I don't hear you arguing otherwise. Just gainsaying. Your counterargument for those of us who seem able to cobble together a reasonable argument is...? Do you really see Labour as a party of social democracy any longer?
Kind of. They just have a very shit situation to try and deal with. Aging population, massive debt, increased interest rates on that debt, no growth, and everything needs more money. And please don't tell me a wealth tax on top 2% is going to fix all that.
so easy for Greens to say all sorts of stuff that gets lefties all jiggy with it, because they will never have to actually do any of it (if they did then they would quickly disappoint and then they'd be another left party to follow).
yeah, let's just ignore their appalling stance on Gaza, the increasing authoritarianism and the punishment of poor and disabled. Of course the Tories left a mess, but Labour's "fiscal rule" was a straitjacket they applied to themselves. Malicious AND incompetent, no wonder voters despise them.
because I swear the govt increased borrowing and put up taxes massively at the last budget to chuck at public sector worker pay, increase the min wage and the NHS, to invest in housing and renewables, are against leaving the ECHR and fracking and ...but yeah just the same.
1% of the nation owns more wealth than the bottom 70%. The UN has chastised us for our poverty levels given the wealth of the nation overall. Nearly three-quarters of millionaires in G20 countries advocate for the wealthy to pay higher taxes and see a threat to democracy in current inequalities.
When Starmer ran for the leadership of the Labour Party, his first pledge was to 'Increase income tax for the top 5% of earners, reverse the Tories’ cuts in corporation tax.' Instead, they wanted to take money from the disabled. Yes. A neoliberal party. Unless we return to social democracy...
... there can be no significant change and Farage will be waiting on the sidelines to capitalise on people's despair with the status quo. We need to offer a different alternative to the status quo. And that is social democracy.
ok, well good luck. I'll be voting for whoever is best to stop Reform winning a majority, maybe that will be Green...but I expect in my seat it will still be Labour.
They aren't neoliberal. That's just lazy. They aren't socialist either. They have increased the size of the state, they have put up taxes on businesses, they are nationalising the railways, they are putting state money into housing and renewables. These aren't neoliberal policies.
I don't want socialists. I want social democrats. Their economic policy is neoliberal.
Oh no it isn't. Ok, bye anyway. Bit bored. I agree Labour have been shit in many ways, but also they did inherit a shitty situation, and have a complex electoral coalition from last election that they're trying but failing to keep.
Of course you're bored. All you can do is repeat, against all the evidence, that they're not following a neoliberal model.
ok, but that wasn't in the manifesto. They were terrified of tax bombshell losing them the next election. It was a mistake that I bet they regret. I think they should put up income tax for everyone actually, maybe not the lowest band.
Everyone? Why everyone? Those at the bottom are struggling. Those at the top can lose money, and it wouldn't make a shred of difference to their daily lives. The point is, Stephen, they didn't do it. It's no good saying that's because they're social democrats afraid of being social democrats...
... so they decided to be neoliberal instead. There was nothing to be afraid of. Truss crashed the markets by borrowing to give the rich a tax break. Exactly the opposite.
so we're going to rely on that 1% to fund everything...you know these rich people that can just get fancy accountants and lawyers and shift their money somewhere else...we'll just hope they do the right thing and fill the massive hole in our finances. Well, finger's crossed.
Blame Starmer then, only himself to blame, the way he is alienating decent people that care for others
It will be a coalition of the right. Labour will repeat history, just as their first liberal Prime Minister sold out the working classes for capital Starmer and Davey will do the same.
“…taking loads of votes” as though those votes belong to Labour by default. Labour certainly aren’t going to form the next government, so why wouldn’t anyone claiming to be even vaguely progressive not vote for left-wing candidates instead?
It's time to kill the Labour Party. It's dying anyway. bsky.app/profile/pete...
oh, ok. Yeah, kill it. Why not.
The only reason not to is that there are no other options to the left of them. Which is palpably not the case. I am a Green Party member, but my hope is that some sort of electoral alliance, tacit or otherwise, will be agreed between us, the LibDems and the new party. That could keep Farage...
... out. But all Labour is doing is queering the pitch as an ostensible party of the left when it is now anything but. I want it eradicated.
And the Greens will pull out of NATO. Is that wise?
It would mean Donald Trump would no longer set our foreign policy
No, it would not. The USA doesn’t set our foreign policy now. But NATO helps us defend ourselves collectively with our European allies.
We can do that without Trump. That’s what Polanski’s comments were about - it’s more or less the same as what Merz has said
This is what Polanski actually said: bsky.app/profile/greg...
Germany has talked about dumping NATO, and EU countries are scrambling to replace US tech.
Germany has not talked about dumping NATO. But all European countries have realised its a mistake to rely on the USA. That is quite different
Polanski view is pretty close to Germany's on NATO.... www.reuters.com/world/europe...
No. Meets questioned if the USA would honour article 5. Polanski wants to abandon NATO altogether. I’m guessing there is almost zero support for that in the uk.
well...breast of luck.
Oh, it's a slender hope as I've already said. Too many still regard Labour as a party of the left and a bulwark against Reform. But it's clear that the narrative is shifting already. We've got four more years.
Kill it?
🤭
It's already fucking dead from the head down
20% Labour?