Because they can't be prosecuted by the state or city if they are acting on behalf of the federal government. Which he knows quite well.
Replies
They wouldnt be acting on behalf of the federal government if they are committing crimes. They would be civilians committing crimes.
aug 27, 2025, 2:37 am • 1 0 • view
Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. ICE employees can in the course of their official duties, detain, arrest, physically attack and even kill people. In doing so they are still acting on behalf of the Federal government unless the Federal government says otherwise.
aug 27, 2025, 2:43 am • 0 0 • view
Just say oopsie and keep doing it
aug 27, 2025, 5:12 pm • 0 0 • view
Except that we don't know who they are or who they are working for. Take them in and let them sort it out in a police station.
aug 27, 2025, 7:11 pm • 0 0 • view
Do it anyway. Change the precedent & change the rules. A maga Supreme Court will overrule it, but it would stop each ICE\NG activity by trying, & the highly publicized case could point out how the federal National Guard is being forced to violate the constitution. Need to stop saying “IF” Say DO.
aug 27, 2025, 12:34 am • 8 0 • view
Any Supreme Court would overrule it. This will be an 8-1 or 9-0 decision. The relevant precedent has stood since the 19th century.
aug 27, 2025, 1:12 am • 1 0 • view
Would that precedent hold (or apply) if the case could show that the National Guard is being used in a frivolous political & unconstitutional manor?
aug 27, 2025, 1:18 am • 3 0 • view
Yes. The Supremacy Clause is designed so states can't impede the Federal government.
aug 27, 2025, 1:25 am • 1 0 • view
or invade a state government
aug 27, 2025, 8:04 am • 2 0 • view
So MAKE trump do it. Waste their time and money and energy on taking the case through the courts. That is literally how he does everything to protect himself and harms others. Give him a taste of his own medicine.
aug 27, 2025, 1:33 am • 1 0 • view
That's not how this proceeds.
aug 27, 2025, 1:38 am • 0 0 • view
Why not. A DA can make it proceed this way. Literally everything that trump does is “not how this proceeds” but he does it anyway. Fight for the sake of fighting and forcing trump to react. Even if it fails it helps.
aug 27, 2025, 1:40 am • 0 0 • view
Not against the Federal government. The DA brings charges, the Feds remove to Federal Court, move to dismiss and the case is over.
aug 27, 2025, 1:44 am • 0 0 • view
Then MAKE the feds try to move it to federal court! That is the point. Make trump go through every fucking step, over & over again. Slow him down, waste time, waste their funds, put the agents through a gigantic hassle. And along the way maybe they lose a ruling here or there, dragging it out more.
aug 27, 2025, 2:14 am • 0 0 • view
Wrong. A crime is a crime. If they act illegally, they can be prosecuted. The Feds hold no sway over state charges.
aug 27, 2025, 1:01 am • 5 0 • view
The law is otherwise and has been since the 19th century. Federal officers can remove any such cases to Federal Court under 28 USC 1442 and the federal court will promptly squash the prosecution under Supreme Court precedent that is over a century old.
aug 27, 2025, 1:09 am • 0 0 • view
So why not make them do that over and over again? The publicity will matter. Would a state or city police chief or state or city politician be in legal jeopardy with the feds for doing so?
aug 27, 2025, 1:14 am • 4 0 • view
It's a federal crime to resist, oppose, impede or interfere with a federal officer or employee engaged in or on account of their official duties. 18 USC 111.
aug 27, 2025, 1:23 am • 0 0 • view
These clowns are wearing masks, have no warrants, and no ID. How does anyone know for sure that they are federal agents ?
aug 27, 2025, 1:11 pm • 0 0 • view
it is not the "official duty" of any federal official to police petty state crimes. By definition they are acting outside of their authority.
aug 27, 2025, 1:57 am • 10 0 • view
Yes and they would be doing it not by the wishes of the governor, but against them.
aug 27, 2025, 2:09 am • 2 0 • view
The original suggestion was arresting ICE agents. According to the Federal government, they would be there to arrest illegal aliens and we're attempting to do so. And that would be the end of the case.
aug 27, 2025, 2:07 am • 0 0 • view
Wrong. They must prove who they are or risk arrest.
aug 27, 2025, 1:12 pm • 0 0 • view
ice agents dont have plenary police powers either. particularly if they aren't even identified as ice agents. Plus we're wayyyy past constitutional crisis, state courts SHOULD just be denying motions to remove to federal court.
aug 27, 2025, 3:05 am • 4 0 • view
Federal law doesn't require them to identify themselves. And removal motions are decided in Federal Court, not state court. Or are you suggesting defying Federal Court orders?
aug 27, 2025, 3:09 am • 0 0 • view
I'm suggesting arresting them, hold them in county facilities, and when they file their notice of removal with the state court the court ignores it.
aug 27, 2025, 3:14 am • 1 0 • view
Local police can't legally arrest federal officers on duty. Once the federal agents identify themselves, the local police will stand down. And if you are proposing to ignore Federal Court orders this comes down to raw physical power. The executive branch will win that every time.
aug 27, 2025, 3:18 am • 0 0 • view
Hold them anyway. Use Trump's strategy. Delay, deny, send lawyers in who act stupid and ask the judge to define the word "the." Delay things so long that damage is already done. The arrested guy will not get that time or bail money back.
aug 27, 2025, 8:04 pm • 0 0 • view
I mean they have held a guy for like half a year with this strategy. Use it yourself.
aug 27, 2025, 8:05 pm • 0 0 • view
There's a loophole for the immunity provided by the Supremacy Clause: "However, this protection is not absolute; if a federal agent acts outside the scope of their duties or violates a 'clearly established' right, they may lose this protection."
aug 27, 2025, 1:25 am • 10 0 • view
If so, better start building cases around that.
aug 27, 2025, 1:28 am • 0 0 • view
I think that's the idea. Blue AGs, it seems, have a conference call every workday morning to confer on what lawsuits to press and so on.
aug 27, 2025, 1:30 am • 1 0 • view
If they act outside the scope of their duties than yes. But that is a question for Federal courts which will generally defer to the Executive branch.
aug 27, 2025, 1:30 am • 0 0 • view
The point is, the courts have been “deferring to the executive branch“ far too much. Unitary Executive Theory is bullshit, and it’s time for state & local leaders to start forcing the issue. We’re not going to get out of this without pushing back, either legally, or if necessary, extra-legally.
aug 27, 2025, 1:45 pm • 1 0 • view
Even if so, they need to make a fuss whenever they can.
aug 27, 2025, 1:33 am • 3 0 • view
which happens after they've been identified and arrested lol
aug 27, 2025, 7:16 am • 0 0 • view
Welp they better hope all their paperwork is in order then
aug 27, 2025, 11:36 am • 0 0 • view
He can still arrest these guys, throw them in jail, and force them to prove they are acting on behalf of the federal government. That will waste time and money for ice and trump and probably reveal more shady business in this whole scheme.
aug 27, 2025, 1:29 am • 14 0 • view
This is the right answer. As usual, discovery is a BITCH to deal with.
aug 27, 2025, 11:36 am • 2 0 • view
Now you are talking! The poor publicity will matter especially if the legal show can be carried on during, or better yet all the way from now up to, the 2026 mid-terms. The world is stage after all. Staging things is how maga got in the White House.
aug 27, 2025, 1:37 am • 2 0 • view
get it on record!
aug 27, 2025, 12:02 pm • 1 0 • view
And those doing the arresting are likely committing a federal crime, which the federal government will be successful at prosecuting unlike the local government.
aug 27, 2025, 1:31 am • 1 0 • view
It'll take about 6 months to two years to reach SCOTUS again. That's 2 years prison time possibly while you wait.
aug 27, 2025, 8:08 pm • 1 0 • view
They need to get indictments from a grand jury. Its possible regular people will refuse to indict. The feds are having trouble with some of their bs assault indictments in DC already. And if they do indict they probably won’t get a conviction.
aug 27, 2025, 1:38 am • 0 0 • view
People in DC are refusing to indict on ridiculous overcharges. That doesn't mean that the much less blue eastern district of Pennsylvania will refuse to indict on more clearly supported charges. For now.
aug 27, 2025, 1:43 am • 0 0 • view
Again. MAKE THEM DO IT. See what happens. Try it! Force trump to go through every fucking step to get his way. He is a lazy, whiny bully. He might even give up!
aug 27, 2025, 2:15 am • 2 0 • view
How is arresting someone a federal crime?
aug 27, 2025, 4:09 am • 0 0 • view
If the someone being arrested is in the process of performing his duties for the federal government, the arrest impedes the performance of such duties and that violates 18 USC 111.
aug 27, 2025, 4:51 am • 0 0 • view
Why do you think the state would arrest someone while they are performing their duties? There are much better options. They can arrest the officer when they are off duty, or better yet just issue an arrest warrant and wait for the officer to turn themselves in.
aug 27, 2025, 5:02 am • 0 0 • view
Arresting someone on account of the performance of their official duties is equally forbidden. I suppose they could issue an arrest warrant and wait (forever) until the subject turned himself in. That puts police officers who might later see this warrant in a potentially dicy position though.
aug 27, 2025, 5:23 am • 0 0 • view
The arrest is not forbidden. They would have to go to trial and prove that all of their actions were in an official capacity. There is no guarantee that the judge or jury would agree. And I don't think an LEO with an outstanding warrant would wait long. It really gets in the way of their career
aug 27, 2025, 5:30 am • 1 0 • view
No, the arrest is clearly forbidden and an actual crime. And, under Trump, the outstanding warrant is probably career enhancing.
aug 27, 2025, 5:33 am • 0 0 • view
An arrest is not a crime if they aren't on duty.
aug 27, 2025, 5:38 am • 0 0 • view
And LEOs know that Trump won't be around forever, but outstanding warrants will.
aug 27, 2025, 5:39 am • 0 0 • view
As the statute is written it still is a crime if the arrest is "on account of the performance of official duties".
aug 27, 2025, 5:43 am • 0 0 • view
The other problem with issuing an arrest warrant is that the identity of the ICE agents is unknown.
aug 27, 2025, 5:25 am • 0 0 • view
Unknown to bystanders or the media. But soon to be unmasked to prosecutors comfortable with issuing subpoenas.
aug 27, 2025, 5:31 am • 0 0 • view
To whom do you issue the subpoena?
aug 27, 2025, 5:32 am • 0 0 • view
You could subpoena the arrest record when they took someone in, the commanding officer, any identified coworker at the scene, the hotel where they are staying, the restaurant that took their credit card, the company that leases their car ... All of which are common practice in police departments.
aug 27, 2025, 5:36 am • 0 0 • view
If ICE agents refuse to identify themselves as such then you don't know that's true. Lock them up and have the doj prove who they are. Rinse, repeat.
aug 27, 2025, 7:59 am • 1 0 • view
So lock them up and hold them until the government files for their release. They can sit in jail until the courts hold some hearings.
aug 27, 2025, 12:32 am • 106 4 • view
And take their damn masks off- they won’t of course because many are Proud Boys, Nazi’s and criminals . Arrest them and ID them. Investigate and record their crimes even if Trump pardons them .
aug 27, 2025, 1:14 am • 81 6 • view
But they do so like those chin diapers.
aug 27, 2025, 11:29 am • 0 0 • view
Exactly, too bad trump and DOGE gutted all the oversight agencies and fired any federal employee that might ACTUALLY prosecute … it’s all in the playbook … remember the private meeting in the oval with Lavrov and Kislyak … 😂 …the delivery of Putin’s pamphlet, “How to Take Over Your Own Country” …
aug 27, 2025, 4:53 am • 0 0 • view
Yes, partly that. And partly the assertion of total control of the executive branch by the President.
aug 27, 2025, 4:56 am • 1 0 • view
aug 28, 2025, 7:15 pm • 1 0 • view
Trump can't pardon them, but doesn't need to. State charges against a federal officer acting on behalf of the federal government are just invalid.
aug 27, 2025, 1:16 am • 12 1 • view
Hasn’t there ever been a case of a Fed Officer (FBI or NG) who was charged by a State for a wrongful assault or killing? Surprised if not.
aug 27, 2025, 1:21 am • 14 2 • view
Yes. In re Neagle, 135 US 1 (1890). The Supreme Court decided federal officers were immune from state prosecution for actions in their official capacity.
aug 27, 2025, 1:25 am • 11 0 • view
Neagle is distinguishable in many ways. It’s a defense of others case where Fed Neagle was protecting another Fed then charged with a state crime (murder). Let them cite it. Criminal acts while racially profiling to enforce immigration law isn’t the ofc. biz of US govt.
aug 27, 2025, 4:11 am • 2 0 • view
This would clearly not be an official capacity claim. Racial profiling of Hispanics systematically is not within scope of employment. Charge them, indict them and let them claim racial profiling as their defense. They have no other. Let them reveal their tactics. Go on. Have at it. Put them on D
aug 27, 2025, 3:55 am • 0 0 • view
What if the actions are unlawful?
aug 27, 2025, 3:15 am • 0 0 • view
That they are acting on behalf of the federal government immunizes them from state law. And whether they are so acting is a question for federal courts who except in egregious cases are going to defer to the executive branch.
aug 27, 2025, 3:23 am • 0 0 • view
and previous supreme courts would've found that kilmar abrego garcia should be home with his family right now. we've all seen the feds flagrantly break the law over and over again since january. why can't philly do the same???
aug 27, 2025, 1:26 pm • 0 0 • view
Which is why it's important that federal agents clearly identify themselves. Otherwise any thug can put on a mask and kidnap people while claiming to be ICE. If you have no way of knowing if someone is a federal agent there's no reason to assume it.
aug 27, 2025, 8:02 am • 0 0 • view
Uh huh. See: “I was just following orders” defense, Nuremberg Trials. Constitutional protection of the Supremacy Clause only applies if the officer's actions were within the scope of their LAWFUL federal duties.
aug 27, 2025, 3:44 pm • 0 0 • view
Krasner is making it clear which actions aren’t going to be considered an official capacity. The definition can be further adjudicated after the harms are stopped.
aug 27, 2025, 1:46 am • 50 3 • view
He isn't relevant to that decision. It is entirely up to the federal government, possibly lightly constrained by federal courts in really egregious cases.
aug 27, 2025, 1:54 am • 1 1 • view
This, btw and fyi, is part of the massive systemic breakdown and invitation to corruption y'all should really see about fixing.
aug 27, 2025, 9:45 am • 0 0 • view
According to you the Nazi soldiers were innocents ?!?? The excuse “I was only following orders didn’t work in Norimberga .” If a federal official or soldier is following illegal orders goes to jail.
aug 27, 2025, 3:29 am • 2 0 • view
Did it seem like I was opening a dialogue?
aug 27, 2025, 1:56 am • 26 0 • view
I am all for arresting ICE and giving them the exact same level of care and respect that they have given Brown bodies. Alligator Alcatraz still has a few days open.
aug 27, 2025, 2:05 am • 7 0 • view
The wild thing to me is these are all enforcement of civil offenses. We are disappearing, maiming, and ruining people over the legs equivalent of ‘obstructing traffic’. Any deterrent to criminal violence done under color of our flag is going to come from localities, blue cities and states.
aug 27, 2025, 2:31 am • 12 0 • view
Yeah, I think I'll trust Larry Krassner's knowledge of the law over an online bear.
aug 27, 2025, 9:03 pm • 0 0 • view
Obviously.
aug 27, 2025, 2:08 am • 0 0 • view
In that case J20, CopCity, KXL, hell even j6 have shown prosecutors have tremendous power to incarcerate, detain, and ruin individuals for years over a case that is ultimately dismissed. I will trust a practicing prosecutor to know their remit better than 2 animal pfps on a web forum.
aug 27, 2025, 2:28 am • 9 0 • view
Courts are very very slow. If you get locked up for 3 months waiting for trial, the court does not rewind time and give you back all that time loss (and financial damages to you from having been gone 3 months)
aug 27, 2025, 8:07 pm • 0 0 • view
Well since those actions are illegal and outside the actual scope of their duties immunity won't apply And they can be held while that's argued Individually For each one
aug 27, 2025, 3:09 am • 1 0 • view
What would happen is that the Federal officials would identify themselves as federal employees on duty. And the local police would stand down and withdraw.
aug 27, 2025, 3:13 am • 0 0 • view
They don't have to, legally, if there's probable cause to believe they're committing a crime
aug 27, 2025, 3:15 am • 1 0 • view
But as long as they are acting on behalf of the federal government they are not committing a crime. And if they identify themselves as federal employees on duty and are doing things federal employees might do there is no longer probable cause.
aug 27, 2025, 3:26 am • 0 0 • view
It seems like that’s based on the Supremacy clause which says federal law takes precedent over state. If the fed agent is following an unlawful order, which sending National Guards into a state without consent is, I don’t see the Supremacy clause holding.
aug 27, 2025, 9:15 am • 4 0 • view
bsky.app/profile/jarl... That's an argument made post-arrest, in a motion to dismiss the charges It doesn't prevent them from being arrested, nor does it eliminate probable cause, since there's no reason to assume they are acting within the scope of their duties if they are committing crimes
aug 27, 2025, 3:27 am • 0 0 • view
Wow. So "above the law ICE" can shoot anyone on 5th Avenue, terrify, pile on, manhandle, injure, violate civil & human rights, ignore due process & Miranda, wear masks, dress in camo, fully armed, no badge,in unmarked cars/vans, tinted windows, providing no identification, & forcibly kidnap people.
aug 27, 2025, 4:30 am • 0 0 • view
So what? Do it anyway. You think Cankles gives a shit if something is illegal? No! He does it anyway. Punish these fuckers.
aug 27, 2025, 8:07 am • 0 0 • view
If they don’t have warrants and they don’t have official identification then it isn’t official business and they aren’t actually fed officers.
aug 27, 2025, 4:08 am • 2 0 • view
While I wish that were true, none of it is.
aug 27, 2025, 4:51 am • 0 0 • view
Says another neolib. Give up, I hear you say? Keep letting them drag us further to the right, are you, just as planned? We won’t forget all the enabling.
aug 27, 2025, 11:51 am • 0 0 • view
I would love to see one of them arrested and identified. I’m certain there are at least hundreds, if not more, who are not trained federal agents. This administration needs to be exposed and we need to find out who these goons really are.
aug 28, 2025, 9:58 pm • 1 0 • view
Exactly why we have to keep trying to unmask and charge agents with State and local crimes. Even if they are not held accountable we should be able to find out more about them via the process
aug 30, 2025, 2:58 am • 1 0 • view
This. Force trump to go through the legal process to get every ice agent out. It is exactly what he is forcing every person he kidnaps to do.
aug 27, 2025, 1:31 am • 3 0 • view
You are suggesting that local police get into a shooting match with federal officers. At the end of this process, it is the local police who would wind up in jail
aug 27, 2025, 1:13 am • 0 0 • view
Are you suggesting that federal agents would shoot anyone who tried to arrest them?
aug 27, 2025, 4:08 am • 2 0 • view
💯 Yes! Do the same shit they are doing to people.
aug 27, 2025, 2:23 am • 2 0 • view
Except, oops, no. The federal government cannot authorize someone to break the law, and federal LEOs are no more immune to criminal prosecution than anyone else is.
aug 27, 2025, 4:19 pm • 0 0 • view
But technically, and perhaps legally, how do you know they’re acting on behalf of the government if they cannot prove who they are, and they cannot show an appropriate warrant?
aug 27, 2025, 12:12 pm • 0 0 • view
Of course they can. Do you really believe a cop can't pull over a postal carrier for DUI?
aug 27, 2025, 4:07 am • 0 0 • view
only applies if the fed official is acting reasonably within the bounds of its federal authority.
aug 27, 2025, 1:55 am • 3 0 • view
It applies if the Fed official is acting on behalf of the federal government. And that is mostly up to the executive branch in respect of their officers and employees.
aug 27, 2025, 2:05 am • 0 0 • view
no it applies if the fed official is acting within the scope of his federal duties according to federal law. If they are not doing that, then the supremacy clause doesn't apply.
aug 27, 2025, 3:06 am • 2 0 • view
Again, that is mostly going to be determined by the executive branch. Federal courts are going to be very reluctant to conclude otherwise except in truly clear and egregious cases. See qualified immunity.
aug 27, 2025, 3:11 am • 0 0 • view
That all happens after they are arrested and prosecution begins
aug 27, 2025, 4:02 am • 0 0 • view
I imagine the DA for one of America’s largest cities is aware of qualified immunity as both a broad concept and specific case law. Not sure how federal courts would have jurisdiction over state-level prosecutions. does a federal officer arguing qualified immunity automatically change venue?
aug 27, 2025, 3:41 am • 1 0 • view
I referenced qualified immunity only to show the degree of deference armed officers get. What protects the federal officers in this case is not qualified immunity but the Supremacy Clause, the Federal removal statute and the statute criminalizing interference with federal employees performing 1/2
aug 27, 2025, 3:44 am • 0 0 • view
This is just desperate cope lmao
aug 27, 2025, 4:01 am • 0 0 • view
Or on account of their federal duties. (My reference to qualified immunity may have been more confusing than helpful however.)
aug 27, 2025, 3:44 am • 0 0 • view
To specifically answer your question 28 USC 1442 allows any federal officials or employees being prosecuted by a state for any act performed under color of their federal office to remove the state prosecution to federal court.
aug 27, 2025, 3:47 am • 0 0 • view
If they are wearing masks and won’t identify themselves, arresting them seems like the only reasonable course of action.
aug 27, 2025, 2:23 pm • 0 0 • view
If they’re unidentifiable, then just STAND YOUR GROUND. Act first and sort them out later.
aug 27, 2025, 12:32 am • 15 0 • view
Can’t believe they’re willing to take that risk. Just takes one (not so) crazy.
aug 27, 2025, 3:37 am • 0 0 • view
They cannot do police stuff, their is no principle in the law that gives them benefit of doubt. If they abuse peoples rights they can be prosecuted and they know it and most absolutely want as little involvement with policing as possible because they know its a quagmire legally.
aug 27, 2025, 5:28 am • 1 0 • view