The government’s abject surrender in the immigration conversation will not necessarily lose them votes. But it won’t win any either because a) for good or for ill, the small boats are the really emotive issue & b) people who simply resent immigrants will always favour Farage. He’s one of their own.
bsky.app/profile/saul...
"It won't lose labour any votes" Checks comments. Yep, plenty of votes lost right here.
The whole obsession by Labour of chasing the right is losing them votes.. Why? Simple they will never be right wing or racist, homophobic or transphobic enough for reform types. But in chasing the right the drop votes from people who feel they are lurching to the far right.
They lost me pre election and I’m pretty much politically homeless at the moment. It’s going to be one of the pro European parties that gets my vote next time.
Not so sure it won't cost them progressive votes. But, along with the attack on universities, their tone-deafness on trans rights, and their timidity on Europe, it will certainly cost them members and activists.
To say the same thing isn't happening in the immigrant population isn't the English way, the English political establishment way has been to ignore such a thing. Spy flights over gaza, sas in gaza and so on.
It will lose them votes if it drives up inflation and damages the health and social systems
👊🏼
I am quite literally going to flip a coin between lib dem's and greens at this point, there really isn't any point voting Tory, Tory or Tory.
Yes but do it tactically if you can.
I think it's a pretty safe bet that it'll lose them some votes to Greens and LD
It annoys me because work does need to be done on the immigration question, in fact at least 4 questions Refugees Process them fast & let them work so that they contribute Illegals Process them fast & deport Legal Give visas to those we need to work here Train UK youth for jobs where they're needed
Making the same mistakes as the Dems in the US, to a lesser degree, fortunately. Political Parties need to stand for something and explain to the public why their position is the correct one. Pandering to base instincts is not a moral position, especially when compared to two parties of hate.
I wish to God they'd stop calling carers 'low-skilled workers'. It's grotesquely demeaning.They're a vital part of our health & care system for families like mine with an ill relative. Or are essential workers just for pandemics?! We need them, whether from these shores or elsewhere.
It will lose them votes from traditional labour voters, and the recent yougov poll showing reform voters would prefer an alliance with Lib Dems or the Greens over Labour does Reform voters aren't going to vote Labour no matter what.
Well they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.
Couldn't agree more. I just posted this thread on this very point. bsky.app/profile/chri...
It’ll certainly lose more than it wins.
It’s true James, you can’t out-fash the far right, the Conservatives are proof of that! Time to go the other way and actually do some good!!
It's definitely lost my vote. Together with RedKip's ongoing appeasement of the Brexit bigots and denial of reality, what's the actual point of them? 4 years & a super-majority and they're wasting it tickling the tummy of the Maily Expressograph who will carry on hating Labour anyway.
Exactly this - who cares if Reform are going to try and run some councils for a bit. They will soon enough fail. Stop worrying about them, and start doing the right thing. A small increase in tax for the hyper-rich, fund public services properly, start acting like a labour government.
It will definitely lose them one vote, mine.
Put it this way, James, if you voted labour last year 'despite' Starmer's "There is no case for Rejoining the Single Market" and not 'because' of it, then this latest bit of Reform-Sycophancy is not going to stop you regretting it.
I wonder how quickly this new immigration policy will be enacted. My mother’s care home is almost entirely staffed by African immigrants. I don’t think the failure to employ native workers to the is down to lack of training more likely poor wages for what is often an arduous job.
My mother pays her own fees currently £1350 a week. Her money is rapidly depleting and eventually she will have to rely on the local social services to pay her fees and they pay significantly less than that. I understand that this does not cover the total costs of care in the home …
So unless there is a significant uplift in the funds provided for adult care I don’t understand how the Care homes are supposed to pay the sort of salaries to attract native care workers. The local supermarkets pay better for less stressful work.
Starmer is a fraud! So much for manifestos which he bangs on about. Nationalism is going to break the UK and the press/media are primarily to blame!
Starmer is clearly one of their own, I mean even in 2022 Farage stated Labour's immigration policy was straight out of UKIp manifesto, but the centrists/liberals who continued to support him as he marched right as fast as he could. www.independent.co.uk/independentp...
Oh, it will lose them votes. As soon as a reasonable alternative emerges people will abandon them
That's the crux, the only non centre right, or further right party is currently the greens and they don't even have the ability to stand in every seat, let alone campaign at the same level.
I don’t think Starmer attacks the Tory/Reform position enough. He almost playing to their voter base I feel but would never go far enough to engage them. So he should concentrate on explaining what is wrong and highlighting why we need immigration. Sometimes he just isn’t firm/aggressive enough
bsky.app/profile/pete...
✅🥴
Yes it will lose them votes. It has already.
Tragically predictable too. The entire appeasement approach to the far-right, across the Atlantic, has resulted in losing at worst or settling at best. The decades-long political narrative that immigrants are a negative factor has clearly normalized & centrism doesn't know how to denormalize it.
The way to halt reform. A continuous campaign that explains how brexit has damage our economy.Then remind everybody who was the mastermind behind this nonsense.
If immigrants from other nations are so bad, then why did England colonize those countries? Do the British ever consider that this influx of immigrants and refugees is a kind of karma? A bit of justice for the centuries of hell it brought to the world?
I'm an immigrant and am so grateful to be in my new home. I feel blessed to have been made welcome for 43 years here in Spain. Until you make immigration a positive issue, the "divide and conquer" haters will win.
What is it with us lot and acts of self harm? Brexit and Labour out-reforming reform, when the best way to combat bigotry and small mindedness is to go in the opposite direction to them, not in lock step. Dull and spineless…
Same reason racists like the orange felon.
As I said in another post - if you combat the rise of repugnant right wing reform policies by implementing repugnant right wing, racist, anti immigration policies then all you get is repugnant, right wing, racist anti immigration policies. They will never be enough to satisfy the racists.
They have learned nothing from observing the rise of Trump/MAGA. How can they be so stupid?
When you say “one of their own” do you mean lying, corrupt, self interested, racist bastards? Just for clarity….
Just announced, Labour will in future be called the Reformed Conservative Party.
A lot of these issues simply go away for non-racists if there is an increase in quality of life.
Labour banging on about the boats makes it a bigger issue than it deserves - and is the single issue Farage trades on. Labour are playing Farage at his own game. Get him on something he’s weak on - ‘party unity’ is a better hill. A vote for Reform is a vote for a party constantly at war with itself.
Bigger picture is the far right in government, Italy, Hungary and coalition governments, Finland, Slovakia, Netherlands. Romania? Russia is enmassing on the Finnish border and stupidly at war with Ukraine. How much further do we want this to go?
I feel like bending over backwards to defend Starmer's labour is what gets us here. He has shown himself time and time again to be an insincere liar and with issues like Gaza he is simply a spineless coward. Labour is seen as continuity Tories by the majority. What's the point in winning?
So much better to clear the backlog, reinstate safe and legal routes and start changing the conversation on immigration to draw out the positives. Was not in their election manifesto
Whatever happened to the "Australian points-based immigration system" that Farage said was the panacea? Isn't that what we now have for discretionary immigration? Imo the small number of refugees is a moral obligation and besides, a drop in the ocean numbers-wise.
Agreed. Process them quickly and get them contributing to society and starting their new lives. Having a back log stuck in a hotel just makes it own headline.
"Stop the Boats" - the easiest way would be to create a safe passage. Invite asylum applications in the Paris embassy, then stick them on a Eurostar. Literally could solve it overnight and kill the gangs' business model.
I think it will lose them net votes. People who think “blue Labour is not what I voted for” and then switch to Lib Dem or Green.
They have already lost votes James. Mine for 1. #RejoinEU
Disagree, James- Think it will lose them votes
Agreed, the racists who vote Reform won't switch to Labour just because they're going racist-lite, but traditional Labour voters disgusted by this shameful pandering will either switch to the Lib-Dems or the Greens, or more likely just not bother going out to vote.
Yep - that's where I was coming from - Many traditional Labour voters, including local party members, are disenchanted by the benefits fiasco. They will be further alienated by the anti-immigrant narrative currently under development.
Stop reading the right wing press, it was a 2024 manifesto pledge to reduce immigration all they're doing is following through with the pled🙄🙄🙄
I suggest it will lose them the votes of people who don't see immigration as a threat to the UK and who believe we should as a nation welcome asylum seekers and refugees. It will lose them the votes of people who voted Labour to get rid of the Tories but now see no difference between the two parties
Not just votes. It will lose them the goodwill of people they depend upon to volunteer as deliverers, canvassers and tellers, people who believe in something better and used to think Labour did too.
It is a false debate and Labour need to make the economic and intellectual case for immigration. There has to be a rational position from the government on this. Anything else is indulging the Brexit fantasists and exploiters.
@teamlabouruk.bsky.social could stop the boats at anytime and yet, theyre deliberately choosing to keep the charade going.
We need a full and open discussion about immigration and asylum, they are often conflated.We need immigration to fill skills gaps but it shouldn’t be used to undercut uk wages. We have a legal and moral duty to give shelter to anyone fleeing war or persecution. Labour need to control that narrative!
Trevor Phillips this morning trying to make Yvette Cooper commit to a number of immigrants and then quickly changing the subject to stopping small boats is playing into the hands of reform voters. He didn’t go far enough in quizzing Chris Philp on why we need to leave ECHR to deal with immigration
Mass immigration inevitably leads to: overstrained infrastructure and social benefits; pressure on the wages of already lower-paid workers; which inevitably leads to the strengthening of the populist right.
Equally having a sensible discussion about managing immigration is impossible when people I admire use this hyperbolic language. Abject surrender? Really.
Reform is an anti-immigrant party. For Labour to engage them on this battleground is akin to saying “I agree with Farage but please don’t vote for him”. It’s difficult to see how this would be a winning message.
We agree with Farage. We are absolutely shitting ourselves with fear of what he might say about us, and will abandon any principles we have to avoid his criticism. Please don’t vote for him.
Champagne swilling, cigar smoking, private members club afficiando with private chaffeur and multiple domiciles, dress up farmer outfits, Putin apologist and Trump fluffer, is a 'man of people' same as I am a multi millionaress living in my chateau by Lac Leman Geneva.
They really aren't doing any favours for those that try to argue against the apathetic voters who say ' they're all the same.'
It will lose them progressives - those for whom the Reform values currently being championed by Labour are anathema.
I think it'll lose them votes. I don't understand what they think the point in voting for them is when they're just the Tories part 2?
Every immigrant or child from immigrants will read the words 'incalculable damage' and say "F him, I'll vote something else." Or they'll not vote at all.
It's not a surrender, it's the law , Or does the law only apply to actual citizens and Maga Cause it seems democracy and the law only apply when it's Maga
They should forget about the 'immigrant issue' and concentrate on making the UK better. That is the only way to prove that 'illegal immigration' isn't the issue that Farage et al like to say it is to promote their Nazi views.
However, there are elections coming up in 2026. Have labour given up on trying to win seats in Scotland to take power at Holyrood? If I was a member of Scottish Labour, I'd be pissed off at how head office is recklessly disregarding the upcoming Holyrood elections.
Yup
You’re absolutely right. This is how Reform wins. Labour’s failure to take a clear, principled stance that resonates with working-class concerns is a massive mistake.
It absolutely will lose them votes
If you sell beer in a pub and looking to try and get the 10% coke drinkers to convert, selling cola flavoured beer to all is not gonna work.
Dear @mrjamesob.bsky.social , Keir Starmer is doing his best to get Nigel Farage in as PM, in a similar sort of way to Jeremy Corbyn waving Brexit through. My hope is that the progressive left make speed within the next 4 years, and then it really will be all up in the air. (Or they sacrifice Keir.)
That’s one take. Here’s another bsky.app/profile/j0hn...
You don’t identify as part of the chattering class then ?
I continue to support Labour but Cooper's latest statement makes no sense to me. We need people on working visas, that's why the system exists. An arbitrary obsession with numbers is counterproductive.
Let them work , no asylum seekers ever took your job, most of them are fit young men .
And it will destroy the very institutions - UK’s world-leading universities - on which their “train British skilled workers” strategy stands or falls. I am baffled by their decision-making in this area.
They lost my vote some time ago and they've done nada to win it back. Labour now have a similar level of toxicity about them as the Conservatives did under May. Tories meanwhile under Kemi-kaze ("Honest Bob" will be even worse in 2026) have simply become unhinged.
They will probably lose votes as Labour supporters will wonder what the party has morphed into. Trying to out Reform, Reform won't work. Attacking the weakest instead of tackling tax evasion and tax avoidance is not good.
I find it hard to believe that there are many Labour/Lib Dem/SNP/Green voters who are actually troubled by the small boats. We no doubt would prefer safe routes, but we're certainly not having meltdowns over the people who arrive here safely. It is also worth noting that we're the majority.
I am just waiting to see how Yvette Cooper’s hare brained idea of cutting down immigrant care workers is going to pan out! ( I know: it will bring care services to it knees & put extra pressure on NHS which will have to deal with bed blocking & struggling to discharge vulnerable people).
They’ll definitely lose votes. I didn’t vote Labour for Reform to govern anyway and I won’t bother again. 4 years of Reform Light and then the real, nasty deal? Labour pandering to the right for the rest of this government will leave them in the same annihilation position as the Tories now.
The small boats are carrying people who are brave and determined. And traumatised. They are not a threat. Once allowed to work they will work harder than natives. Why the hatred. Ignorance.
Labour is incapable of making *any* progressive case. They surrender to conservative thought on every single issue. And no mainstream journalists will ever ask them "what do you have to offer to progressive voters who are leaving you for Lib Dems and Greens in droves?"
It will lose them voters because it conflicts with the economic growth that they want to repair the country. Brexit has taught politicians to pretend there are no trade offs. It is idiocy.
tactical voting Turquoise Reform or Red Reform?
Labour just won an election. Why are they trying to entice voters to the right of the tories. Just get on with being a proper labour government and the rest should take care of itself.
I don’t think they are, but the press don’t give balanced reports anymore. IMO I think they are worried that once people see the benefits that closer ties with eu bring, the ground swell for rejoining will be bigger. By promoting Reform they make it unlikely we can rejoin as the EU won’t have us
If Labour deliver then Farage will melt away, also we are going to see the unholy mess Reform are going to make in the councils they won. As for immigration it’s the illegal immigration that needs addressing not the legal migrants we need in the medium term.
They follow this model 😡👇 bsky.app/profile/dutc...
Lost my vote.
Seems like the Lib Dems are the way forward. Why vote for a farage-a-like when you can have the real thing. Just like the tories Labour are pandering to the bigots and look where that got them
While the government continue to talk about immigration in these terms, they are destined to lose the next election to Farage
Labour are cooked, they don't speak for us, they bend to warmongers like Bibi & Peter Thiel, they all do but Reform & Tories aren't the answer, Starmer needs to be removed We did it to ourselves 15 years ago & they should tell the public who was behind it before we do it again, It's Putin 2-0 NATO
I'm not sure the people surrounding Starmer get this. As pointed out by Alastair Campbell this Labour party needs more clarity and get on with the job it's voted in for not making disability cuts and badly handling WFA
An abject surrender & a (largely unreported) lack of effort or success in processing the Tory backlog & those still incoming & ‘tackling the gangs’ as promised. I voted for Labour & Keir Starmer & this now along with the ‘further & faster’ mantra is both depressing & disappointing. They are losing.
This: bsky.app/profile/cweb...
The goal in such moves isn't necessarily to "win" votes, but to cut down on losses, to blunt the issue to whatever degree is possible, not with Farage voters, but with mainstream voters to whom immigration (and race) aren't quite as prominent in their calculus.
I'm trying to work out who the rhetoric is for. Surely it's not for voters so are there other people they're trying to win over? Of course I'm just waiting for them to say something actually positive about poverty or the welfare state. I might be waiting some time.
It will win the votes of moderate conservatives who might be teetering on the edge of voting Reform
It's easy saying everyone is crap, but when are they going to show us the way. Close the border ala Trump with massed troops and ICE with guns. Shut up the press so they don't investigate the many tunnels into USA. Is Farage going to station the navy on the beaches of France. How is it going to work
'Don't forget to put your sun cream on, otherwise you'll end up like me'
People don't care about immigration if their own lives aren't shit, that's the reality here. So what we have had for 15 years is political leaders basically arguing that our lives will always be shit but we can make the lives of others tremendously more shit That's the deal on offer.
I didn't vote for Labour last time because of it, among other factors, and it's definitely pushing me away from voting for them next time. Quite frankly, I don't see the point in voting Labour if they want to converge with the Tories on everything. Picture very much related.
"if the labour party was led by anybody else it would be 20 points ahead in the polls"
It amazes me that in 2025, I look around and see that as a species, we haven’t learned anything and are destined to repeat the mistakes of our past. I have so little hope for us moving forward
Which mistakes?
Primarily in this context, still believing that others of different origin, race, skin color or geography are inferior or to be feared and or subjected to persecution. Same old same old; empires fall when populations grow to ignorant
Interesting Convo with neighbours (German & Belgium). They had no idea (zero) that there are no legitimate was for people to seek asylum in UK unless they set foot on UK soil! They felt UK is being 2 faced compared to rest of EU & they didn't think their countries were "overrun" so how can UK be?
Surely, reducing the incentive to make the dangerous journey across the Channel is part of it? Digital ID and heavy fines or imprisonment for employers using illegal migrant labour maybe.
Labour's policy is cynical appeasement to hate over reason. I'm here via Aus (I run a coffee roastery). We (immigrants) have positively changed the hospitality - all on low/minimum wage. Post brexit, lack of custom/staff shortages has become axiomatic. Brits just don't want these min wage jobs!
Where has Yvette Cooper gone?
I really, really, really want LAB to make this work, but I'm so, so close to cancelling my membership and looking elsewhere. This, benefits cuts and reluctance with the EU is making my position untenable. I've communicated this to my local LAB councillor. Burnham seems the sanity.
Burnam should be leader. He has far more sense and personality.
Looking at how Merz making immigration his central talking point lost him tons of votes to the far right in Germany because he validated their push for more talks about the topic, I'd say abandoning the topic and making it "something only extremists keep talking about" might be a good tactic. 🤔
They are completely out of touch with the real world and the real challenges. Basically Farage has already won the next election four years in advance. Shocking
They said they were listening. They clearly aren’t.
He’s going to lose votes. Mine for a kick off. I voted Labour, if this carries on I’ll be voting Green next time. I have a friend in Yarl’s Wood detention centre rn - Home Office trying to deport her to her death in Gambia. I don’t want to hear Labour dehumanising people seeking sanctuary.
By all means use brits in the care industry but PAY PROPERLY!!! My daughter used to get just 30 minutes pay for 2 hours on duty, travelling between one 15 minute job to another 15 minute job. Those care companies make FORTUNES!!!!
Someone has to be brave enough to say we welcome all legal immigration and genuine asylum seekers, but we will not hesitate to deport illegal immigrants and bogus asylum seekers. That will not be popular at either extreme but is the only position that actually makes sense.
True, sadly on both counts. Brexit referendum, Trump’s 1st term both in 2016. Same rhetoric, lies. If UK voters think that Farage is the answer, they might take a long look at Trump’s Project 2025 which is happening right now. Citizens brutally kidnapped by ICE, without due process. Can happen here.
It will most certainly lose them votes. To the liberals and greens. Just like their support of Netanyahu and the far right Israel government will lose them votes. Just look what happened to the Democrats in the USA. You can’t take voters for granted even if the alternative is ghastly. Trump/Farage
100% right James. This performative immigration rhubarb will not gain them any Reform votes, but will cost them middle ground voters. Also, to announce a homegrown workforce solution, without a working training system in place, is again..... performative!!!
As a child I was told there were too many Taigs (Irish) in this country now I am no longer a stranger because I am white - this is simply COLOUR PREDJUDICE
Oh dear. The Labour Party is really getting things so wrong. Reactive policies don't work.
I don't know why they are chasing the 20% or so of people who will always be susceptible to the Farage-y racist policies and actually get worked up over the small boats. The fact is the majority aren't worried (hence Reform being on around 20%). Why not focus on the other 70% of the country?
Because Starmer is scared the HateMail will say something bad about him.
They'll do that whatever he does, he should be aiming for the centre left/left, not the far right.
Agreed. For Starmer, being in power, and staying in power, is more important than using that power for change. Apart from the private school VAT changes, everything he's done has been aimed at placating the right-wing press because he's afraid of being Corbyn'd.
I'd also add the major investment into the NHS as a good socialist policy, unfortunately he taxed the wrong people in order to provide it.
Just realised it should be 80% for the rest of the country 😴
You cannot be "a little bit racist" You will lose your own votes, and Reform and the Tories will *always* be more racist winning them the votes you are after
It's a vote loser Left wing people vote on principle, even when it harms themselves
They have lost my vote never again
Surrendering to anti-empathy - satiating a desire for performative cruelty. bsky.app/profile/theo...
It will lose them votes, because each policy consequence increases disaffection. Social security/pensions cuts = disaffection and votes for reform Stress of care homes = disaffection and votes for reform. I have no idea which voters Starmer is chasing, but the first rule is to bring onside the core
Absolutely
It's going to lose them lots of voters and any chance of winning the next election.
I never understand why they have to chase voters who despise and blame them and their policies for all the ills in the UK. Labour should focus on being labour. And make Reform/MAGA explain their 'other' policies. Those that deal with the economy, education, health, etc.
Main stream media have a lot to answer for in this matter. It's shocking how many people believe what's written about migrants being the cause of all our woes. I suggest following @zoejardiniere.bsky.social for clear analyses of migrant issues.
I will look at this. Labour are trying to appease the right wing media who will never be their friends. It is a waste of time appealing to those wankers
Perhaps the government could actually control illegal entry into British territory and thereby cause this issue to lose its political relevance?
Germany's far-right AfD likes Starmer's new approach. Do we really have to ask whether Starmer is going in the right direction? 😱🤔
😳 blimey that will hurt.
Starmer needs to be kicked out of the Labour Party! #RacistStarmerFuckOff
What does Starmer think he's doing?
Second last para of Phil's latest gets closer to their 'thinking' - and nails the cynicism, which is staggering.
Certainly the far-right direction
Their stance will definitely lose them votes. People had enough of racist/anti-immigration rhetoric. If Starmer wants to change things - address the press with their unchallenged lies and biased reporting (plus overrepresenting Reform)- start with Leveson II. @hackedoff.bsky.social
Just all so reactive again. When will they come up with a proactive, positive and exciting vision for what they want the UK to be. Not sure how much more benefit of the doubt they can be given
You're about 3 more steps away from realising what Starmer et al are.
...and, predictably, BBC Radio Four's Today Programme gave air time to Dick Tice. Tice boasted Starmer had admitted Reform Limited were right. The interviewer tried to question Tice on policies and Tice repeated his claim Labour were following Reform Limited. Reform followers don't need detail.
I do think it will lose the government votes. Seeking to blame others one’s own shortcomings is a very human frailty. But it does not lead to anything better or sustainable. So, votes will be lost from progressives dismayed by this stance now and others who see no gain later.
Indeed. Not that I care about the tories particularly, but they and labour trying to be like reform will only lose them votes. Why would any rabid anti-immigration voter choose anyone but farage? He's their patron saint. The rest of us certainly do not want farage.
Can't believe how they are naively chasing votes they're never going to get and using racist nonsense to do it! Pathetic!
"PEOPLE WHO RESENT IMMIGRANTS" like immigrants aren't people, too? God why does RACISM have to exist?
If someone looks at Reforms platform and thinks “that’s for me” why would Labour (or any party) think that’s the voters to appeal to. They should be appealing to the voters who see Reform as a threat to democracy and Britain
Another wrong turn by Labour another nail in the coffin. Where’s the courage-where’s the common sense-where’s the empathy-where’s the appreciation of peoples tolerance & understanding. For pity sake don’t let the criminality of Brexit become this toxic 😞
Imagine living a life that hates immigrants but quite happy for them to nurse you-bath you’re parents-shop for them-pick the fruit-be delivery drivers-be homeless -what absolute shit people they are Then they vote Farage who has made millions on the back of desperate people - shame on them 😞
It most certainly will lose them votes. Already has.
Miliband did the same thing chasing tory voters who said they 'might' switch to UKIP. He promised to be nastier than Thatcher. Harsher on immigrants than Enoch Powell and what did it get him? Fuck all.
It’s this incredibly patronising assumption that natural Labour voters are “in the bag” no matter what Labour actually proposes doing. It’s not football! Most people (these days anyway) aren’t loyal to a particular party just because. Labour’s kamikaze strategy is mental!
Starmerism...-if we can'beat the racists...let's be racist.
It's awful policy. It's awful tactics. It's just awful.
Well said . The government haven’t stopped the boats , they just missed the boat .
abject surrender ...with 4 years to the next election the fact they don't believe they can win a battle of ideas in that time with a close associate of the increasingly destructive trump.... demonstrates a severe lack of morals and spine.
I can only hope that in 2026 Holyrood and Senned elections all 3 UK parties are wiped out, labour, reform, and Conservatives. Greens, snp, plaid Cymru and libdems should be only parties anyone votes for.
that will depend on demographics ...old folk like me need to either drop off the perch or refrain from voting ... let those who have to live in the future vote for their future
I can 100% guarantee that it will lose them at least one vote.
And me.
I have voted Labour my entire life. I will not vote for this shit.
I have also voted Labour at every GE I’ve been able bar one because I was abroad. I also cannot support this.
Enjoy reform then
That’s very lazy & as a strategy doomed to failure. Ignoring *why* people are turning away from Labour is the last thing we should be doing
So you’re unhappy with labour enacting their manifesto commitments? bsky.app/profile/j0hn...
I appreciate you think that screen grab is a zinger, but this is hardly “fair & properly managed” is it? Shrugging & saying “yeah but Reform”, or even worse acting like there’s no problem is making an already dangerous situation critical. Anyway I’m off to read in the garden.
lol, dismissing a ‘screen grab’ of labour’s 2024 manifesto statement is so on point for the informal reform supporters. Here, have a read bsky.app/profile/warr...
Aside from the principle of the thing, I personally don't think 'Nigel Farage is right, don't vote for him' is a viable electoral strategy.
The premise of your point is inaccurate, keriothe. Labour are simply enacting their manifesto promises bsky.app/profile/j0hn...
Same.
And me
Add another name. Lib Dem or Green here.
They haven't lost mine, they've rejected it with their policies. And they are telling me time and again why I was wrong to vote for them in the place.
As a Labour party member I can't see Starmer turning the tide with this announcement...We're well past grown up immigration policy... Rabid Reform supporters want nothing less than a full stop ...
Genuine Q - How can you remain a member after this? I left some years ago after supporting Starmer to become leader. I find their policies immoral
Well I wouldn't go so far as 'immoral'.. However I would say that its a mistake to be railroaded by a bunch of racists...Its what led to Brexit... Labour have 4 years left not 4 months ..I think that its far too early for kneejerk 'follow my leader'...
I think their approach to Palestine is immoral but I guess we all share different perspectives. I also think targeting the poor, the disabled and the elderly is immoral. Taxing the rich appropriately, rather than forcing the most vulnerable to pay seems right and yet they have chosen the opposite
I agree that taking money from the poorest whilst ignoring the wealthy is a bad move... The winter fuel allowance should be means tested but the dysfunctional Pension Credit needs to be reformed first..too many people fall off a cliff edge ..the threshold should be much much higher..
I think that when it comes to Palestine all parties shy away from outright condemnation of Netanyahu's disgusting behaviour in Gaza because any criticism is called out as antisemitism.. Labour has historically had problems with this within the party.. Its time to call a spade a spade...
I can bet that every Reform councillor has racist leanings..why would they be in that position otherwise..? Reform is a 'We hate immigrants..get rid of them' set up..pretending to be a legitimate political party. A legitimate party has a breadth of policy areas not just one....
Because making shortages in a care industry where unemployment is already low is really going to help improve matters... bsky.app/profile/did:...
Please read @lukepiper.bsky.social thread on the current care worker crisis.
I've voted Labour in most elections. I even dragged myself to the polling station last year despite feeling seriously ill after having been through dialysis. Just to vote Labour. I can't imagine doing it next time. I didn't vote for Reform-Lite then and I certainly don't intend to next time either
If you voted for Labour in 2024 then you absolutely were voting for Reform-lite
I'm only one person of course, but I wonder how many people feel abandoned too and will abandon Labour at the next election? And how many Reform MPs will exist after the next election because Labour voters drift off to the Lib Dems and Greens after having their votes taken for granted too often?
Why would Reform voters consider Labour anyway when they also have the Tories standing between them?
I think it’s unfair to call it ‘abject surrender’ @mrjamesob.bsky.social The stuff that’s being announced was in their manifesto. Just as we shouldn’t let the far right distort the media narrative, neither should we allow the other end of the spectrum do so.
Page 42 onwards labour.org.uk/wp-content/u...
I think it is ONLY the brown skinned "boat people" who the antis regard as immigrants. Do they have problems with white, working/studying Europeans - or even notice them? Or, in the main, with professional brown people -like Drs and MPs!? I doubt it. It is a serious problem, not easily dealt with.
I live one seat over from one of the reform MPs (the wife beater they don't allow on camera.) and I can guarantee you a *lot* of their votes came from people a lot angrier about the amount of Eastern Europeans in the area in HMOs than about small boats. Even though almost all of them work locally.
White Australian here, with ILR for over 20 years. I can’t tell you how many times people have moaned to be about immigrants and, when I respond with “excuse me, I’m an immigrant”, tell me I’m one of the “good immigrants”. Translation: you’re white and your first language is English, so we like you
Exactly! I often wonder how many Brits living abroad consider themselves immigrants there. Not many, I guess! Also how many think it necessary to learn the language? Some do need to, or think it correct to do so, but some of those have been accused of "going native" I believe!!
Expected more criticism from you regarding Starmer’s speech - or maybe I didn’t…
That's what a lot of politicians don't get in dealing with the far-right. You don't win over their voters by taking on their points, as you can never outdo them. The Reform vote will remain as Reform voters, they won't go to Labour, who are effectively legitimising Farage's claims.
Immigration + AI companies over creative labour + lack of support for Trans rights has lost me. A party member and voter until today. Can no longer hold my nose and hope they pivot to progressive policy.
As someone who wants to retire before I'm completely knackered I say stop the small boats, big ferries are what we need.
@mrjamesob.bsky.social They've lost two votes from my household. As a Spanish immigrant who has lived here for 18 years, I've never felt so unwelcome.
On the contrary, it lose them votes. Because the anti-immigrant crowd who voted Labour out of inertia might as well vote Reform now, and those who only voted Labour to stop Tory anti-immigrant policies, are disappointed already.
Sprained my ankle rushing to Bluesky for @mrjamesob.bsky.social comment on this news. It feels a desperate leap from @teamlabouruk.bsky.social in reaction to the recent local elections. Unfortunately there only appears to be one recourse for Labour to turn this around.
Agreed they should concentrate on reducing inequality
Yvette Cooper is worse than Farage. She actually believes it, to her core, while he's just a manipulative opportunist.
It has lost my vote. I personally think it will lose them lots of votes. I voted for a more caring government, but instead got a government that attacks the elderly, disabled and vulnerable just to appease a few Reform voters who will vote Reform anyway. ‘Labour’ are a disgrace.
I voted Labour at the GE for the first time but have massive buyers remorse. I voted lib dem at the local elections. Labour need to go back to being Labour basically.
The same crowd who insist Britain is a tiny island, but that it can grow all its own food & compete economically with trade superpowers, and has enough people to fill all the job vacancies they themselves can’t or won’t do. 🤔
Meanwhile, the government refuses to talk about actually helping anyone in need. They're taking away from the poor, giving tax cuts to the rich - as though they were Tories.
Which tax cuts to the rich (honest question)?
Rich were clobbered in the Autumn budget: www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024...
It will certainly lose them votes at least in the short term - whether those voters can be persuaded to coalesce back behind Labour in 2029 as the lesser of 2 evils option remains to be seen
I don’t think it will be 2 parties. Tories destroyed themselves, Labour are now doing the same. That leaves Reform to fight Lib Dem, Greens and a self-destructive Labour.
They voted for lesser of 2 evils last year (though actual votes were historically low, lower than 2 Corbyn GEs, marginally higher than Miliband). It's done them no good, nor does it promise to. People want something positive to vote for. Four Lab landslides since 97 & it's still Thatcher's country.
Maybe if Starmer chased the majority, i.e. the people who didn’t vote, by putting forward some decent, progressive policies, rather than chase Reform voters, he might achieve something.
If it’s Morgan MacSweeney who is leading up this wrong path he needs to wobble his head. This is wrong.
The immigration issue is Farage’s baby. Just because you can’t beat him on this issue doesn’t mean you should join him. How many immigrants feel like they’re being portrayed in a positive light? Not many I’d suggest.
It's his only baby as far as I can see.
"You'll never have to vote again" He meant what he said #NazisGonnaNazi #ThisIsFascism #FascistNaziDictatorship "The only good nazi, is a dead nazi"
You can’t win the votes of a group of people with one brain cell and incapable of critical thinking and Farage is as much one of them as I have anything in common with the royal family.
James, all that's needed to stop the boats is to set up safe routes. What's stopping them? It's a no trainer.
Brainer
In this, as so many other areas (Brexit, Trump, social care) Starmer's Labour seem to try to pander to everyone rather than taking a bold and steadfast decision that charts their own course. Shame.
Starmer's GE tactic of using his opponents' language to pacify their voters won't work for him on this one.
It hasn't worked for any centrist or center-left party.
It helped get Starmer into Downing Street, along with assistance from the Tories punching themselves in the face. Now Starmer's inadequacies as an original storyteller and his inability to drive the news agenda risk the whole country falling to fascism.
Had the Tories not been in complete disarray, #KeirStürmer would still be in the opposition. He also polled worse than Corbyn (and keeps bleeding votes) due to his complicity in the #GazaGenocide, his witch-hunt against #PalestineSolidarity, and his horrendous policies against the poor.
As an American I want to warn my British friends: If you keep chasing narratives the far right creates for everyone to freak out about (often rightfully so...they say / do awful things) you *will* lose. You HAVE TO set a counter-vision and narrative for people to get behind. We didn't. We lost.
Good advice. I'm already thinking about counter narratives. They have to sound about 90% the same as the far-right stuff but we blame the right people and offer better solutions.
The difficulty for government is that any counter vision that indicates more migration (the legal kind) isn't necessarily going to be welcomed by all voters either.
Then we have to explain convincingly why some immigration is beneficial and should be welcomed.
I think even Reform voters would be okay with short term transitionary migration if they are shown legislation and policy to force UK businesses to recruit and train more.
I never like the word ‘force’ in these situations. The government could encourage more British nurses, for example, by re-instating nursing bursaries for training nurses. With care workers I think pay and conditions may be key, and those are related to the funding of local councils.
Why not force them through legislation, we force many things through policy and legislation.
I still wouldn’t use the word ‘force’ because the tabloids use it for clickbait stories. How about ‘require’, ‘oblige’, ‘mandate’?
I'd use "force" because we're in an era where a section of the voting public is leaning toward "strong men" type politics. So, purely from a political messaging perspective, the stronger the language the more it would appeal to those voters.
You can run on FIXING the immigration system's rules and regulations. You are doomed if you do anything that follows the right's narrative that immigrants are bad because you are just seen as a half-assed version of the right by the people who pay little attention to politics but will still vote.
We definitely need to fix the rules so that it forces UK businesses to hire and train more people locally. I think everyone is onboard with that.
Oh no they've already melted your brain. You can talk about other things...things like the concentration of wealth and the lack of adequate affordable housing. Make the super rich the enemy. Make bad housing policy and those who stand in the way of fixing it the enemy.
You can but, if Reform and the Tories maintain the focus on immigration stats, then that's where the media will go too.
I get what you are saying here completely because we have the same damn situation here in the states. But look at this - A Senator flew down to Venezuela on his own to check on a guy Trump kidnapped and sent to prison there and Democrats kept talking about it. Look at the dark orange line now:
Thing is we don't have that problem in the UK. Our economy is not tanking because of self imposed taxes on imports, and we're not picking people with a legal right to be in the country off the streets and deporting them.
You're missing my point. What I am saying is the left spoke up widely and consistently on an issue then took actions around that issue and it immediately collapsed Trump's strongest issue in terms of how Americans viewed it.
We don't have that problem in the UK because how judiciary is much stronger.
No it will go there if you only ever respond to them bringing it up. If you just repeatedly shift the talking point to your own narrative they will also report on it. If you offer nothing to talk about other than reacting to the last insane thing the right said what's there to even listen to?
The media will follow the most sensational story, so it's a difficult balance to grab media attention with the less sensational policies.
Trump is underwater on immigration now in America because Democrats took the initiative and one Senator flew to Venezuela to check up on someone Trump sent there and every other Democrat continued talking about it. The insistence got massive media coverage and killed Trump's polling on immigrants.
Trump is mainly losing in the polls because of economics.
If you do not develop a strong narrative of your own to lead with and only continuously talk about issues that the right brings into the spotlight then you are completely screwed. I've just watched that exact issue play out here in America & we failed to create our own story for people to get behind
You have to remember though, there are voters on the left too that are concerned about immigration.
Yes, that's fine. My whole point is that you cannot make acquiescing to the far right a part of your campaign. You can, say, acknowledge the issue and that it needs reform while also strongly stating immigrants are not boogeymen to be villainized and then make a case for who the *real* villains are
I don't think that is what they are doing. I think they are merely acknowledging there is an issue, which they have to do otherwise it looks like they are in denial about something that voters (left or right) are concerned about. The smart way is to focus it around legal migration.
The smart thing is to address fixing the system and then shifting the conversation to the actual problems fucking people's lives up.
Tightening the visa system is part of fixing the system. It will force UK businesses to recruit and train more people. A secondary benefit might be that it will cause care home costs to rise this forcing more people to sell their homes.
I'm afraid those of us who know, know. Those who don't will never get it.
If you keep unregulated border, ypu will lose elections. That's the Number One lesson.
Also, pick or create an enemy and strongly stand against them / it. People like getting behind a clear cause and want to stop things or people immiserating them (the answer is the super wealthy...but for gods sake find any enemy). If you don't have a strong cause nor enemy why would I follow you?
Yes like farage reform conservatives - they are the enemy but labour for some reason want to emulate them and it’s going to backfire massively
The far right is creating stories about why society is failing regular people. If you just chase their narrative then halfway cave to those narratives and not create your own story of who is making life harder you will just be seen as right-light. Be modern FDR: www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvSO...
I don't see prioritising the training British workers rather than taking the easy option of recruiting from abroad a bad thing. Also, reducing the number of visas to countries with the worst records for overstaying is a sensible measure to fulfill his pledge to reduce immigration.
I've noticed some previously hard line brexiters mentioning single market access because although they dislike foreigners, it has dawned on them that brexit has swapped European foreigners for foreigners from further afield who they dislike even more.
It will also absolutely lose them votes…?
But it compounds our disillusionment in them. On top of the other flexes in performative cruelty they wilfully conduct. So if the LibDems or Greens give us a viable alternative, we’ll head there. We don’t want to live in their faux-Reform backwash.
I get the distinct sense that none of the recent governments know what they are doing or who they represent. They are not for the people any more but seem to represent a section of society that most people don’t recognise. Sad
We need MPs that stand up with the counter argument. The value of immigration. The economic sense behind cooperation. The historic evidence of what isolationism and right wing agenda brings. But no. Successive govts follow the pied piper. And who pays the piper.....
And we could stop the small boats tomorrow by allowing them to come safely.
Starmer has never gave the impression he'd be any different. He's just been quietly steady on the same path. By the time the institution is done, anybody arguing for the contrary will be completely isolated, both socially and politically
And of course some are fed a venomous diet of Islamophobia and incessant barrage of lies fake news and venomous incitement about this religious minority in the uk subjected to this brain washing and conditioning day and nights they come to blame Muslims for everything wrong in their world !!
Some of this grifter’s cheer leaders do look at immigrants as a low life form not good enough to walk on the same side of the street with them , and this is not new, their ancestors even imported that to countries and lands the invaded South segregation South Africa apartheid and all the rest !
It’s true most of farag cultist fandom are xenophobes astonishingly some who even went to live abroad in other other eu counties after Brexit which they brought on the uk
