A lot of people on the extremely online left right now seem to interpret "Anti-Zionism is not antisemitism" to mean "all antisemitism is actually fine if you just say it's anti-Zionism."
A lot of people on the extremely online left right now seem to interpret "Anti-Zionism is not antisemitism" to mean "all antisemitism is actually fine if you just say it's anti-Zionism."
Always will be bigots but hardly seen it - certainly not to the extent where one might make such generalisations.
I know for sure that opposing the actions of Netanyahu's government is not antisemitism. And a lot of Israeli people agree.
The entire response to this thread just proves the point
Every single time. These are the most predictable people on the planet.
Can you give an example?
no they're not, dennis. unless you're conflating being opposed to israel's genocide of palestinians, as being itself anti-semitic. in which case... you are doing the actual anti-semitism, by conflating israel with judaism. stop it.
You have no idea what I think about what Israel is doing, but you made an assumption because I agreed that a loy of people think you can’t be antisemitic if you are anti Zionist That clearly applies to you.
Yes, there are people who are antisemitic and claim to be antizionist. But that is only as disingenuous as Zionists claiming to be Jews when, really, they are only interested in misappropriating property and territory belonging for millennia to others.
What the fuck are you talking about?
So what do think of what Israel is doing? What do you think of each Israeli soldier that relishes killing and raping children? What do think of their government that openly supports these strategies? What do think of Israelis enjoying the spectacle of bombs dropped on Gaza?
Unless you're explicit in your position, all we hear is you defending Zionism in any form. Anytime someone goes out of their way to identify antisemitism over the literal ongoing Holocaust on top of massive Islamophobia and racism is invariably fighting for the genocidaires.
I don’t give a shit what you think about my opinion on my Israel/Palestine. I just assumed based on your statement that you think antisemitism is not a problem.
Then why bring it up at all, shitface? What are you trying to do except police the only voice actively against the monsters and their masters? All this to avoid saying "I don't approve of Israel's genocide". Because to you antisemitism is more important.
I don’t owe you the explanation you demand but here it is anyway I assume that for people like you, the only answer that suffice is is “Israel should cease to exist” That’s unworthy of my response.
I assume that for people like you, you’re totally fine with genocide and you should fuck off.
no i said you're making up comments that don't exist. you said all the comments prove the point by being anti-semitic. none of the comments are doing that. the comments are just critical of israel's genocide. so... i extrapolated from that, that you think israel is equal to judaism. anti-semite.
Like I said, you are both wrong and clearly someone who the post describes.
you're the anti-semite. again - you are the useless jew-hater who purposefully conflates judaism, jew, and israel. you're the one defending the slaughter of arabs in the name of the jews - despite the fact most jews oppose israel's genocide. fuck you, anti-semite.
Okay no need to start calling people antisemitic. Name calling isn’t useful dialogue. But I ultimately agree that the OP of this thread is claiming people are being antisemitic when no one is.
again - *nobody replying to joel* said anything anti-semitic. they just said they oppose israel's genocide of palestine. your response showcases you conflate israel and judaism. you are an anti-semite doing anti-semitism by conflating the two. israel is not judaism. get through your nazi skull.
And again, you just prove the point.
what point. that you lied? dude. show me a *single* post. one post. one. just one. that's all i'm looking for. show me one reply to joel which is doing an anti-semitic critique of israel. show me one. the only one i see is your own, by conflating israel with judaism. you're the anti-semite.
Dennis thinks he's smarter than you, and everyone else. That's why he hopelessly tries to defend his deliberate misinformation, then gives up when he realizes he is clearly out of his depth. I bet Dennis stands to profit from the real estate boom in Gaza after its final cleansing. #cdnpoli
Don’t waste your time on maliciously stupid people.
why did you assume that the behavior being criticized here was being opposed to israel's genocide i'm opposed to it too but joel is 100% right
because none of the replies are anti-semitic critiques of israel... they're all just, regular critiques of israel. so dennis *has to be* conflating regular critique ["i oppose israel's genocide"] with anti-semitism; so dennis is conflating israel with judaism.
Do you think this is the first time this topic has come up? You are someone who believes it is impossible to be anti-Zionist and antisemitic that seems obvious to me.
i did not say that at all. i am attacking *your* claim that several of the replies to joel are anti-semitic. none of them are. if you think they are - again, you *must* be conflating israel with judaism. because you're an anti-semite.
The initial post was vert simple. A lot of the online left can’t differentiate between being anti-Israel and antisemitic, and then there were a bunch of posts that ran Israel that did not deal with the point about antisemitism That is what I was referring to
why aren't you proving your point then by showing me one? show me one. show me on. show me one. show me one. just one. that's all i'm asking for. one reply to joel. one. that's all i care about. why are you ducking, dennis?
Because you don’t deserve any more work from me. You clearly disagree with his point. Fine. B
i don't disagree with him. i have not disagreed with his point. at all. i agree in fact. i said i disagree with *your* point. because you lied. now, either give proof, or live the rest of your life knowing you are an anti-semitic piece of shit with no friends.
It’s not the left it’s Israel smearing the left. Call out antisemitism where you see it. Leave them no cover!!! electronicintifada.net/content/insi...
The issue isn't antisemitism, it's zionism. And zionism is nazism. Questions?
Yes, what is the 'extremely online left'. Is the left extremely online? Or extremely left? This person's premise smells like bunco.
Blue maga never fails to amuse.
Not a thing. Don't try and make it one. It will *never* be a thing.
Blue Maga is not new, libs being horribly racist and queerphobic is not new or shocking
But trump said that all criticism on genocide is antisemitic. I hate those trumpists/antisemites who present genocide as a Jewish value. Like, promoting a genocidal regime is one thing, blaming Jewish people is beyond evil.
Trump reveals his true nature every time he opens his mouth. I wonder if the people who insist criticism of Israel's actions and policies is antisemitic in order to silence those critics are aware they have made themselves accessories to the crimes Israel commits in Gaza.
They are. White supremacist hate Jews, but they hate Arabs more. Getting Arabs slaughtered on an industrial scale like nethanjahu promises is a dream to them, the only thing that can top it, is if they can blame the Jewish community. They know it damn well.
He is referring to the woke mob. I am not a conservative lol but a mob of internet warriors who think they're defending something by doxxing people for having opinions online definitely exist
Thank you. That's interesting.
I'm of Jewish heritage 100% on both sides of my family going back several generations. I say that because I do not practice the religion. Nevertheless, I'm very much anti-Zionist. No. It is not the same as being antisemitic. 1/2
Though I do despise the overly vain, status oriented mentality of many Jews. Honestly, I feel the same way about all people with those traits regardless of religion or race. I'm not a materialistic person. Never have been.
However the vast majority do not think that at all, they just want the mass murder to end and the perpetrators to be punished
"A lot of people..." is the equivalent of Trump's "Many people are saying...". It's a deliberately nebulous smear on leftists. You know who's truly actively and dangerously antisemitic? The far right/fascists/Nazis. Back when Twitter had real moderators, I reported hundreds and got them suspended.
Conflating Zionism with Judaism is blood libel because #NotAllJews are genocidal monsters. AND Blood libel is antisemitism. THEREFORE Zionism is antisemitic. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
A "lot"? Really? Sure sounds like Zionistic bullshit you're trying to spread.
What a strange argument. Also. I’d quite like to see some evidence to back up your theory, otherwise it just reads like something you dreamed up to defend what is happening in Gaza and the Occupied Territories. By the way, I know that there are daily demos by good brave people in Israel.
no. that's a straight up lie. if you're seeing that, you're seeing fascists masquerading as the left, as they always do and always have.
He's on my blocked Zionist troll list
Or they're just mistaking libs for leftists, as Americans often do.
Or they're just engaging in the time-honored internet tradition of gaslighting.
A no true Scotsman fallacy in the wild!
hi: it's impossible to simultaneously hold the position that all people are equal (leftist theory), and also support genocide or antisemitism. these are mutually exclusive categories. fascists play off of you not know this very basic logical fallacy, so you can handwave away actual fascism but
not tolerate ACTUAL left wing critique. sorry that you don't know what a "no true scotsman fallacy" is, and throwing it around like a child with a ninja star. dipshit child.
Ah yes the evidence that you believe all people are equal is shown by you calling those you disagree with “dipshit children.”
I didn't disagree with you, you were aggressively incorrect in logic. You came in hot, so I corrected you and insulted your arrogance. In the spirit of equity, if I acted like a dipshit child, I would accept that descriptor.
“All leftists believe that all people are equal” is a fascinating definition of what you believe leftism could be. But there are plenty of people on the left who do not share your beliefs. And sadly some number are antisemites.
Yeah no, leftists are not necessarily anti-racist and I've dealt with a lot of influencer types who are considered genuine left figures that are utter shits to Jewish people and regularly launder their antisemitism as antizionism.
oh yeah, I'm sure you could point to one of them at least, right? like, just one.
Zinnia Jones
yikes I have no idea who that is, but I bet it's bad, or something.
She's quite popular in trans circles, and is a militant atheist who spends way too much time shitting on Jews. The odd person having an utter shitfit over Jewish people even having a culture is enough to drive a lot of Jewish people into isolation and guardedness.
sorry, she sounds miserable. like a liberal, but like a RAD-liberal. you will share perspectives with people who are similarly oppressed, but it's pretty easy to navigate who talks about class and who doesn't.
I mean zinnia's also a Theilite who punches down despite claiming to be like socialist or some shit. But she's not the only person who's harassed me on the basis of being Jewish while claiming it was about zionism when I'm quite vocally antizionist.
she's broken in all kinds of ways
Among other people who called me oven bait then added me to lists of "zionists" on utterly false pretenses.
Who?
Zionism is an extremely far right ideology, intent on wiping Palestine & Palestinians off the planet. For self-proclaimed 'Chosen Ones', Zionists sure are a bunch of homicidal, land stealing, genocidal maniacs. Just like I didn't hate all Germans, I do not hate all Jews.
Yet it is Jews who are referred to as "The Chosen People," not Zionists.
Most Zionists are Jewish & an overwhelming amount of Israelis support Zionism. I think it's fair to say Zionists believe they are the "Chosen People."
If you’re defining “Zionist” to mean you don’t think Israel should be destroyed, of course Israelis are Zionists (as are most Americans).
Netanyahu's Zionist regime is committing war crimes, genocide & blatant land theft. His regime allows "Settlers" to invade the West Bank, murder homeowners & steal the land. America was built on land stolen by genociding the first inhabitants, so it's no surprise the USA arms & supports this one.
I apologise. I was wrong. Most Zionists aren't Jewish.However, most Jews are Zionists & all believe they are the "Chosen People." Now that we've established who are the chosen ones, my opinion is for self-proclaimed chosen ones they sure are a bunch of bloodthirsty,land stealing, genocidal maniacs.
I was in Jewish private schools for thirteen years of my life and also worked for the Jewish community as an educator for nearly twenty. I can count on one hand the number of times I was told or taught that we are the "chosen people". It's mostly an idea that came out of Christianity.
It sounds like you are saying that Jews are "bloodythirsty,land stealing, genocidal maniacs."* Is that what you're saying? And if so, how is that not antisemitic? *and you believe this because Jews say they were chosen by God to receive the Torah.
I'm saying Zionist Israeli Jews & the genocide they commit & support are all of those things, yes. What would you call the so-called "settlers" in the West Bank?
I understand that this is a heated topic. Regardless of what I believe (and those beliefs include that virtually all West Bank "settlers" should be in jail), that might be what you are saying now and it might be what you believe, but it wasn't what you said. The OP was basically talking about
antisemitism disguised as anti-Zionism. While trying to condemn antisemitism, you inadvertently said something pretty antisemitic which I don't think it's what you were trying to do.
Zionism is an ideology, not a person.
Denouncing Jews because some of us are Zionists and just assuming we support a violent government is Judenhass. Just as white people don’t get to decide what’s anti-Black racism, you aren’t qualified to say what is or isn’t Judenhass.
I don't think most Jews are Zionists. Just the Orthodox ones
Oh ISRAELI Jews. That's the key word then. Yes, Israelis believe that Israel should exist. Shocker.
Sadly, Israeli existing now means wiping out an entire race and stealing the land. Shocker Palestinians have a right to exist too.
No, that's a false dichotomy. With regime change and enough talking to individual Israelis in a language they can understand, we can stop this before it goes that far.
I'd ask a million starving & homeless Gazans if they think it has gone too far.
There are more Christian Zionists in the US (~30 mill) than there are Jews in the entire world so no, most Zionists are not, in fact, Jewish. And my point is that by using the 'chosen' moniker to refer to Zionists, you are conflating all Jews with Zionists.
So-called Christian Zionists seek & support the destruction of Palestine, too. They still support genocidal maniacs, whether you place a Christian in front of the Z or not.
Yeah nah. I’m on the extreme left. I don’t hate any people of any faith but when political philosophy drives the slaughter of a people because ‘god promised this land to us 3000 yrs ago’, it’s easy to understand why people focus their hatred on the faith that underpins that philosophy.
Mind how zionism hijacked jew symbols and made them a symbol of genocide and hate. Feel free to criticise ZIONISTS for that and to DISTANCE YOURSELF from them. If zionists made the 6 point star into a swaztika deal with it.
Weird contention. Any evidence for this happening a lot?
And then we have the powerful Christian Zionist movement. Is criticism of them also anti-semitic?
Are they the ‘rapture’ people?? Obviously incredibly sane and well informed.
Well golly who could have predicted that would happen
That is not at all true Is strawmanning part of your job, or do you do that for free?
I have never heard anything like that. More that anti Israel still being interpreted as anti semitic. It would seem strange to me if the left gave a shit about religion, anyone’s religion.
My focus is on the genocide being carried out in Gaza.
Most Israelis aren't even semites. Israel is committing genocide including cultural genocide.
Uh. First, there are no "Semites." Languages can be Semitic, but not people. Second, most Jews have at least partial descent from Middle Easterners, including white ones. Third, "antisemitism" was created by a German antisemite as a euphemism for "Judenhass."
What is a "semite"?
Is it like a "french"?
It would be a lot easier to just throw off the yoke of all religion and forget the traditions related to ethnicities and try to get along with everyone, regardless of background. But that's not gonna happen.
Israel is a terrorist state.
A lot of people are actually concerned about Gazans being exterminated by Israel. But do keep drawing attention to something else, by all means, possible.
But trump said that those who criticize genocide are antisemitic, so it must be true... I hate trumpists.
Don't call them "Gazans", call them Palestinians.
Why? Of course we understand that this has been happening to Palestinians - but for the moment, our attention is drawn to the ones being murdered, starved, tortured and endlessly displaced. We can talk about the West Bank too. But I am talking about Gazans. Are you some kind of police?
People can chew gum and walk at the same time. It is possible to be enraged about Gaza AND want the hostages home AND notice how antisemitism is in vogue again.
No. Not really. People can listen to propaganda, AND form their own opinion, but given the stats coming out of Israel, they can only chew over the hostages and get easily excited for their own safety caused by their anti-Semitic government. What they can't do is show any concern for the Palestinians
Why do you throw "antisemitism" in the equasion? And what has Vogue to do with it? Is your "antisemitism" (whatever your definition, which I don't give a fakkabout) your reason to commit genocide? Solution is simple: stop murdering Palestinians and your "antisemitism" will be reduced by >>90%
I am talking about three things that get conflated and how sometimes online discourse has trouble understanding that all three things can be true at the same time. You just proved my point. You chastised me for talking about antisemitism on a post about antisemitism.
You didn't get any point proven. No one these days has a clue what anti-Semitism is, if they don't recognise that the Government of Israel is the prime example. The conflation of Judaism with Zionism is their doing. They are the source. To try and make anti-Semitism the story IS the problem.
Indeed. Antisemitism is somewhat surprisingly as common on the left fringe as it is on the right. But then - all kinds of hate are fashionable these days.
On the right fringe however islamophobia has partly taken over some of the myths formerly attributed to the Jews. And funnily the right-wing nutters don't see how similar are they to islamist extremists.
MAGA are twins with the Taliban.
Oh Bullshit! 👆
Ask yourself, if any other nation did what Israel is doing to Gaza, would it be acceptable? Yet the United States and most of the western world stand by silently. Some of these countries still continue with aid and arms to Israel. Fuck off with the antisemitism or antizionism 🐂 💩 STOP THE KILLINGS
Nope. Sorry. You’re way off the mark. The dissent from & stringent criticism of the extreme right, corrupt, Netanyahu regime in Israel is neither anti semitic nor confined to what you self-servingly label the “extreme left”. To oppose scorched earth, mass murder & genocide is humanitarian. & moral.
Try reading comprehension. 🙄
Hilarious.
That's ridiculous. Anti-Zionism is the opposite of antisemitism, even if some old-school antisemites piss on Israel simply because Zionist-Nazis insist that Israel is a "Jewish" state. But most Zionism and most Zionists are self-styled Christians, and Christian Zionism is inherently antisemitic.
The below comments summarize to: "Antisemitism is entirely the fault of the Zionist entity, and the Zionists are the real antisemites in addition to being both Nazis and apartheid colonizers." Did I miss anything?
Antisemitism existed before Zionism, and Israel uses antisemitism to its advantage.. but other than that you pretty well hit the nail on the head.
Cyrus allowed the Jews to return to Judea before the Purim story, and isolated ancient Jewish communities as in Ethiopia maintained tradition of return to land, so Zionism preceded antisemitism. bible.org/seriespage/2... 22. The Return to the Promised Land (Ezra)
Do you want to snort some crack or do you want to stop a genocide? Because it seems like you would rather snort crack.
If you can include Biblical references, then look at Egypt and the Exodus. Antisemitism existed first 😜
I was starting after the first temple's destruction as the starting point of diaspora Judaism because we have archaeology from then, and some didn't return. We have minimal archeology from the chumash times, but the first act of Judaism is לך לך going to the land.
Right, right. Or we can toss the Bible and look at the modern age and later like sane people lol
Populations of Jews lived in Iran, Ethiopia, Yemen for 2500 years through the 21st c. because the destruction of the first temple and the exile began these communities. No historical Jewish communities date from the modern age.
The Zionist movement began in the 1880s, and that is the modern age, actually
Zionists used time travel to ensure that multiple times daily Jews would recite texts about Zion, Israel, Jerusalem even among isolated populations, and even to invent the holiday of Sigd about returning to Jerusalem.
Lol k.....
Here’s what I think is missing in this conversation, the “Jewish Bible” is oral tradition written down. While there are a lot of fabrications, there are a lot of truths too. Archeologists & historians can add to better understanding.
A whole lot of it is definitely bullshit lol
Fuck off
😉😅
Oh boy. Here I go on a two day bender again.
Gonna try not to. We just need to block the assholes. This is what they live for.
Yes that has been the entire mission of people promoting "Anti-Zionism isnt Antisemitism" thing To create an infinite excuse for Antisemitism It was never about clarity or the preservation of some theoretical, pure Anti-Zionism (which is the rejection of Jewish peoples right to self determination)
Bollox
When everything is antisemitism, nothing is antisemitism.
A lot of people think you're a piece of shit genocide apologist.
a lot of people on the right seem to take criticism of Israel for committing genocide as antisemitism....
Incorrect
Can you show some examples please.
In this very thread you will find justification for antisemitism, claims that all Zionists are Jews, and arguments that the existence of one particular religious state is inherently immoral because of religion (but obviously not the other religious states).
So - no examples to back your claims that people are being antisemitic. You believe anti-Zionism = antisemitism which you know very well is rubbish. Have a good day #JailAllZionists #DismantleIsrael
You didn't even read my comment, and certainly not the comments I was referencing. Define "zionism" for me. And I assume you also want to dismantle every other country that is doing bad things, like say China, Russia, Mynamar, Saudi Arabia. Right?
Examples please.
This is the one (1) example I've seen that's a bit *so-so hand gesture*. bsky.app/profile/hiko...
Ok, yes, that is anti-Semitic. Scrolling through the posts on that account I think it’s just a racist shitbag. I don’t see anything about left wing ideology or politics on that feed. How is this person a leftist?
Do you consider the founder of La France Insoumise who placed third in the 2022 French presidential election to not be a leftist as well?
Online left?
Personally, I think the leader of a left-wing political party being racist is far more important than podcasters being racist, but the bar has been set - we must relitigate twitter drama circa 2014-2023.
How are those people using anti semetism as part of protesting the genocide happening now?
Where does Joel make this claim about protesters? You wanted online lefties and, so far as I know, posting online is not the same thing as protesting.
Well, he did not say that explicitly. It’s been a while since I looked at the original post. But given the fact that is is talking about people using anti-Zionism as a cover for anti-semetism it can be inferred that is why he is bringing it up.
I don’t that was his implication. It seems a problem is that this exact discussion has been happening for decades. It’s also a point which has been brought up both in bad and good faith in that time. So I understand you have warranted skepticism here, but I don’t read it the way you’re describing.
See the discussion started on one topic. You are trying to change the topic.
bsky.app/profile/homo...
What makes this person a leftist?
The retweeter has a Wikipedia page. Look at the "activism" section. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Ra...
None of that is anti capitalist. She appears to be a liberal to me.
She has a very prolific body of work explaining her ideology, a simple Google of name + "capitalism" would suffice. mrambaranolm.medium.com/ascension-fr...
But also, this "she's not as left as me therefore this isn't *leftist* antisemitism" is deeply annoying.
You told me to read her wiki. I did. It did not mention anything particularly leftist, it did cover liberal activism pretty extensive. Liberals are the center of the ideological spectrum not the left. They may be left of republicans, but that does not make them leftists.
1. It is fascinating that you think antiracist and feminist activism are definitionally liberal and not leftist. 2. If you think that her feminist and antiracist activism is predictive of liberal views on class and wealth, you're just empirically wrong.
1. I acknowledge there are not hard and fast deliniators. 2. That said, leftists tend to focus on collective class consciousness and rights grow out of there while liberals look at rights via individual groups. Again, this is not hard and fast, but generally speaking is true.
It's okay. Sometimes people in "your" ideological tribe are shitty. I know that feeling VERY VERY WELL. Just breath and you'll make it through this trauma.
(More generally, the upside-down red triangle is a marker of explicitly pro-Hamas leftists.)
*pro-resistance leftists
Hamas is the popular front of the Palestinian resistance. If you're gonna go along with the zionists who insist you condemn them, you might as well concede that "Israel" has a right to exist in Palestine and defend itself against Palestinians who disagree
Thanks for showing a great example of antizionists calling out antisemitism when it happens.
Pearce is a good 'un! OP wasn't denying the existence of anti-Zionists who Do The Work, and neither am I.
Op was implying that antisemites operate freely under the guise of antizionistm, when in practice, anti-zionists do weed out the antisemites effectively Never good enough, but it's dishonest to imply that antisemitism is accepted among antizionists. Meanwhile Zionists are structurally antisemitic
"Meanwhile Zionists are structurally antisemitic" LOLWUT. I'll be sure to tell the explicitly Zionist Reform and Conservative national institutions, and the overwhelmingly Jewish literal World Zionist Organization. And no, the "weeding out" is not effective.
So you're claiming antizionists aren't effective enough at weeding out the antisemites, while Zionists literally have trump speaking for them. Just say you care more about Israeli colonialism than about judeism. You can have that opinion, but be honest.
(It's also not clear to me that they're anti-Zionist per se)
Plus all the harassment of kippahs wearers and mezuzah hangers at universities after October 7th.
www.wosu.org/politics-gov...
The post is about online leftists. As far as public harassment that is awful. But I will also say too many people called people protesting genocide anti-Semitic out of hand.
you shouldn't be entertaining this bullshit. guy's a fucking clown. you're not on the backfoot, the supporters of genocide are.
yeah it was really tough that they had to walk near an anti-genocide protest
Came to ask for exactly this.
And this is why I ask the question. Because when they provide them they are never actually anti-Semitic remarks. Refusing to tolerate genocide is not anti-semetism.
What triggered this round of posts was a post by Taylor Lorenz positively quoting a 4chan post saying that Jews, which the post called "kikes," are censoring the Internet. And Lorenz is more or less the dictionary definition of "extremely online leftists." dsadevil.blogspot.com/2025/08/thin...
Ok, Taylor is caught up being accused of being funded by a pro Democratic Party super pac. Trust me, the center right Democratic Party or their allies are not funding leftists social media personalities.
Taylor approvingly quotes 4chan saying that Jews are censoring the Internet and your takeaway is "she is caught up being accused of being funded by a super PAC"? In a thread about anti-Semitism?
“A lot of people,” huh?
That's Israel's goal
Nah, man. We're just anti-Israel/anti-Zionist. We see the wholesale slaughter of innocents that Israel's government is doing. We're tired of idiots using the word antisemitic as a way to shut down legitimate criticism that their government is nothing but genocidal manaics.
They don’t get to play the antisemitism card anymore!
There’s a huge difference between Judaism and a Zionist.
Bullshit, and you know it. Antisemitism, in truth, is 'prejudice against a large group of languages, among them Hebrew, Arabic, Aramaic and Maltese'. Anti-Zionism is an entirely justifiable prejudice against against genocidal maniacs like Netanyahu and his frock-coated friends. Check a dictionary.
have you ever checked a dictionary
Antisemitism was never about Semitic languages (which most Jews did not speak for centuries until Hebrew revival), it was simply made up as a more „scientific” sounding name to rebrand the religious Judenhaß.
Opposing Zionism is very like to opposing Apartheid is very like to opposing Nazism. Zionism, Nazism, and Apartheid South Africa are all examples of racist ethnostates. All are equally awful and evil. Joel attempts to twist words to somehow justify the existence of racist ethnostates.
Can you show me some examples? I would love to set these people straight. It only hurts the cause...
I think that is a consequence of propaganda. Like as gentiles we’ve had decades of the conflation of Israel and Judaism, both from Israel and from our various national leaderships, but just two short years of awareness of how fucked Israel actually is, there’s not enough time to deprogram everyone.
Having said that - cynically calling anti genocide protestors “antisemitic” 100% happens too. And I see that as dangerously undermining the taboo against antisemitism. Even Jewish people get called antisemitic for speaking out. Not to say that’s what you’re doing, just that it happens.
Happened to me! They called me anti-Semetic for repeating a joke I have heard at least 2 rabbis state at every conference I went to for young Jews lol
We just have to reprogram enough to topple this regime. There is an election next fall. We can do this, one Israeli at a time!
Israelis and also everyone else. Like I was saying as gentiles, we get taught to believe this too.
I am not anti-Zionist. I am sad that Israel is inflicting itself with injuries from which it may not recover. The Jewish people do not deserve the association with actions of this kind.
Anti-Zionism isn’t antisemitism, except when it is.
And a fuck ton of Democrats continue to conflate Israel with the Jewish people. Any mention of the fact that Israel is committing war crimes will get you called antisemitic.
That's not the left ding dong
Leftists oppose genocidal ethnostates and *actual* antisemitism. Those who don't do both aren't leftists.
the need to educate others about the pitfalls of antisemitism is a constant and perduring calling- to be surprised about it or catalog it among the left, of all places is quaint- to say the least
“extremely online left” citation pls
actually fuck off
It’s the other way round. Zionists ‘interpret’ any criticism of zionism, zionists or Israel as ‘antisemitic’. The very real problem is the many acts of actual antisemitism are trivialised or missed altogether because they’re being buried under countless false zionist claims of ‘antisemitism’!
why did I read the replies what is wrong with me
Antisemitism is of course not fine. It is the Zionists who have gone to great lengths to equate Judaism and Zionism. In doing so, they have created an environment in which antisemites can easily hide their antisemitism in the vast cloud of well-deserved criticism of Israel.
The best way to slow the very real rise of the very real problem of antisemitism is to end the genocide in Gaza, end the occupation, end the blockade, end the illegal settlements in the West Bank, and acknowledge the Palestinians' right of return. As always, the best solution to injustice is justice
Judaism has been weaponized by Russian Israeli mafia. Netanyahu OWNS the Republican Party. While, Democratic leadership has been bought off by the unregistered pro-Israel lobby AIPAC to the tune of over $100 million dollars.
Hear hear. It is ISRAEL itself that claims "WE are THE Jews" That's antisemitic. And racist.
Israel = GENOCIDE
Those of us in the US dealing with the utter destruction of our country by a narcissistic maniac need to remember that many of these "online leftists" are from Europe and Australasia that 1) have multiple political parties and 2) obv conflate Israel and its actions with jews.
In some ways its a luxury they can afford because they have a space, however small, for their views. Good for them but here we dont have that choice. For those here in the US that make Israel their focus? Ask the "arab-americans for Trump" how that worked out.
name names if it's so bad! show us examples!
That’s bullshit and any real leftist would outright reject anyone like that.
“No True Leftist…” Please tell us more about this completely original concept that you’ve come up with, which totally isn’t a well known fallacy that is used to excuse awful behavior?
Zionists are Nazis, btw. Weird to proudly label yourself a Nazi
The point is that most leftists will reject this behaviour while conservatives embrace it.
Zionist pig swine Netty is a racist for his genocidal war against all Palestinians. Israel deserves better .Most Israeli Jews are against netty's genocide,but they are silenced,just like anti Zion protestors are here.Saying that leftists are anti Semite is like saying Nazi scum maga arent fascists .
Wow!
The right uses Jewish conspiracies as ammunition. The left treats them as physical facts and is very angry we haven’t just redistributed wealth equitably without a fight.
liar.
I lied in your mom last night.
Not with that grammar, you didn't. (his mom is a librarian)
Lies
Truths
Anti Zionism is. Not not not antisemitism
I think your definition of antisemitism is different from mine. I think the term blood libel is antisemitic: that’s different I know. Antisemitism = blind hatred of Jewish people. Simple. Being opposed to Israel’s policies on Palestinians, hating their policies even does not = antisemitism. #UDHRNow
Are they saying it more and more?
Not even a good try. Nonsense in fact.
Yeah, no.
The point is that antisemitism today is just anti-Zionism. People who care about hatred of Jews should talk about hatred of Jews
“Anti-Zionism isn’t antisemitism” - the infinite-use, get-out-of-jail free card for when western leftists want to do something that would plainly be understood as antisemitic in any context and not suffer the consequences.
You can be antizionist without being antisemitic and some leftists on this site should try it sometimes. (And I’m a leftist!)
“now”..? It has been happening for years dude.
after 25,000 plus Dead kids in Gaza no one really gives a fuck about hurting the "feeling" of the people engaged in Genocide.
I have to call Bull Sh*t Joel: for every 1 Jewish Zionist in Europe & the US there are 30 Christian Zionist which implies Zionism was a Christian project to get Jews out of Europe.
But killing innocent non-jewish babies, children, women and civilians is just fine by you?
Jonathan Greenblatt loves it when posts like yours get these types of responses.
Well observed.
Joel, what the majority of people are saying is that the Israeli government and their sponsors(Trump admin) need to stop the genocide and free the Palestinians. Call it what you want, but please tell us you are on the side of humanity and don't want the mass starvation and slaughter we are seeing.
Fuck Isreal. How's that?
Bullshit
The Israeli government is the one that is conflating anti Zionism with anti semitism and in doing so is making Jews everywhere feel unsafe
Yes but at the same time some people are making their job easier by using actual ages old antisemitic tropes under the veener of anti-zionism, so perhaps it’s better to avoid doing that
not just them, the US government as well www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12...
Zionists as a whole, generally
Christian Zionists included. After all it was the British variety who created this mess in the first place
Yes, zionists being the supercategory which includes christian zionists
Not just Jews
It has always been antisemitism, and just a cover for people who wanted to be antisemitic without being called out for it.
Nah.
Nope
You are conflating semitism with Zionism which is in itself antisemitic.
There is no such thing as semitism, that’s why you don’t hyphenate antisemitism
Ah yes, we should all stick to a 19th century definition developed by scientific racists to other Jews because it’s in the dictionary
Don’t like losing an argument eh!
🧐
You’re talking to a guy who thinks murdering children is fine, as long as they are Ukrainian children that Russia says it was „provoked” to kill
Ah, so an ass
Eugenics is a morally repugnant, abhorrent pseudo-science. Adopting its premises and terms is not a good idea.
Every Jewish person I've spoken to rejects the term.
Jews can’t define ourselves, it’s forbidden as the Other of the west.
I think you'll find Zionists have currently got a bad wrap because genocide. Perhaps stop genocide?
Anti Zionism refers to believing there is no inherent right for land to be carved away, and given to group based on historical precedent to form a political entity. Anti semitism is a disgusting belief that Jewish people can be persecuted and discriminated by virtue of their ethnicity or religion.
Fuck Israel anyway.
Actually, I’ve seen exponentially more people on the far right of that to justify their hatred of Jews. Also, I’m getting pretty fucking sick of being called antisemitic for calling out a fucking genocide.
I’m not calling people out because of who they are. I’m calling them out because they’re dropping guided munitions on innocent civilians, while denying them food, water and medical care.
Don't disrupt Joel's peace of mind! He is deflecting from genocide to sl;eep well! Don't mention Israel!
the list of what israelis consider 'antisemitism' is constantly growing and has rendered it a meaningless term its pretty pathetic you are still clinging to these accusations
Kudos
What's wrong with being anti-religion? That's not a form of bigotry
DemocRATS or RepubliCUNTS. Either way, we're screwed (KY jelly optional)
Sure, writing about "the extremely online left" (I don't see many of their posts) about the conflation of anti-semitism and anti-zionism might get more clicks than the Israeli and US govt's & most mainstream Jewish institutions conflation of the two---making it very easy for antisemites to do so.
What about 'genocide is bad'? Is that OK?
I'm not seeing that Joel
You can blame the Zionists for weaponizing antisemitism.
Even if you are adamantly opposed to the actions of the Israeli government, it does NOT necessarily make you anti-Zionist. An anti-Zionist wants to take Israel away from the Jewish people (which is inarguably antisemitic). Stop calling yourself an anti-Zionist if you don’t want to do that.
I want to take Israel away from the Jewish people. Just look how they've behaved the whole time they've had it. They obviously can't be trusted with it.
And that’s why you’re an antisemite.
Israel is a shitshow. Integration is the only solution. One land. All peoples.
You’re a Jew-hating piece of trash. Simple.
Criticizing genocide does make one anti-zionist. There is no way of colonizing people's land without doing some form of apartheid and/or ethnic cleansing.
You may claim to favour a "liberal secular state based on Jewish tradition", well: 1 that's not on the menu, Israel is ruled by those who slaughtered Rabin and the myth of "liberal Zionism" 2 it would not be a "Jewish state" without either ethnonationalism or theocracy. It's still kolonialism.
It's also clearly in bad faith: if someone says "I support Russia", you know they mean the Russia of Putin. You know they're supporting the invasion of Ukraine. You would not leave room for the hypothetical of them supporting a hypothetical Russia without Putin and without a Ukraine invasion.
This is the equivalent of arguing that being against the Holocaust doesn’t make you anti Nazi. It’s not clever to split hairs over the various manifestations of genocidal fascism.
No. That is not an accurate comparison.
Name a tenet of Zionism that isn’t also present in Nazism. If you have to think about this there’s a problem.
The tenets of Zionism is to provide Jews safety and self-determination in their native homeland. A tenet of Naziism was to genocide all of the Jews worldwide. There is 0 similarity. Are you even being serious right now?
Sounds a lot like Lebensraum which, from the Zionist perspective, requires the genocide of the traditional inhabitants of “Greater Israel”, beginning with the Palestinians. Then you have the notions of racial supremacy and manifest destiny. That’s >>0 similarity AFAICT. 🤷
how does it sound like lebensraum to you?
Open your eyes: www.jpost.com/israel-news/...
Zionism is about a safe home for Jews, not taking land or claiming racial supremacy. Mainstream Zionism never called for harming Palestinians, and “Greater Israel” ideas are fringe. Comparing it to Nazi Lebensraum is just ignorant. You should stop. It makes you look uneducated.
Why all the land stealing then? And why all the murdering and terror? Also my Jewish friends in Australia and America all have safe homes. I note you’ve started to insult me rather than genuinely address my points which is typical of the genocide apologists I encounter on this site.
Zero insults given. Land stealing is not Zionism (even by people doing it supposedly in the name of Zionism). Your Jewish friends in Australia and America are safer precisely because Israel exists. The dangers they do face there are from antisemites all the same though.
Re the “antisemitic attacks” in Australia I make the observations that no Jewish person was injured (cf constant attacks against Muslim Australians) and no Australian perpetrator has been shown to have been motivated by antisemitism. And if you believe Iran was responsible I have a bridge for sale.
The land does not belong to Israel. Jews are not entitled to a land because an ancient book says so. No religion in the world is given the same privilege to set up a country they're not native in. And they're not fucking native, that's the people who lived there for generations.
Except Jews are native to Judea. The Levant is literally where Jews are from. Judaism (the religion of Jews) are but one aspect of Jews. Jews are a nation first. Oh and despite Jews being ethnically cleansed from their land, Jews have managed live there for generations.
What about descendants of the folk who lived there before Judaism? Are they not the original & therefore real owners? Or what about folk whose ancestors stayed & converted to another religion (or profess none)? Do they lose any rights to land if they are no longer members of a specific religion?
Except the Jews native to Judea later converted. You're talking about European and American Jews whose entire heritage is contents away. Israel being currently propped up as a Western state is not for fucking show.
No, we were enslaved or exiled. At the time the Romans did this, they intentionally renamed Judaea to Syria Palaestina to mock us by naming it for the rival Philistines. Yes, some Jews became Christians or Muslims, but the majority lived in exile for nearly 2000 years. We have genetic proof.
That being said, the people who have lived there in those intervening nearly two millennia have every right to the same land. It is their home too. But claiming Jews are not indigenous to Judea is like claiming the Cherokee aren't indigenous to Georgia because they were exiled to Oklahoma.
This ⬆️ 💯
No. I’m talking about Jews. All Jews’ heritage derive originally from the Levant, whether during the diaspora they were forced to live in Europe, Africa, across the Middle East, Asia, Australia or the Americas. Jews are native to Judea.
A religion is not native to land. It's the people. It'll forever be the people. And diaspora had nothing to do with taking away that heritage. Not every European asshole identifying as Jew is entitled to a land that changed its name millennia ago. Go debate historians if you got a problem.
You missed the part where I wrote Jews are a nation first. Go back and read. Jews are native to Judea. Mainstream historians have a consensus on this.
Consensus that native people own their land? Yeah you don't have to be "mainstream" to know that. What I'm saying is clear as day. Jews outside Palestine do not own anything within it. And the Zionist project itself was just more white colonising. I mean this quite literally btw:
Jews have a continuous historical and religious connection to the land going back thousands of years. Zionism was about national self-determination, not ‘white colonization.’ Dismissing that ignores both history and the centuries of persecution that made a safe homeland necessary.
All this to argue that European Jews deserve something and ignoring the native Jews that were there in the first place. It must suck being a Zionist tool regurgitating the same stories of entitlement and then suddenly be surprised they get pushback for it.
I've already blocked him, usually paid trolls, life is too short!
Antisemitism is a helluva drug, huh?
*continents
That’s the loony left, nothing extreme about it
Grow up.. Moses was black and the living Nefertiti is the 1st female President of Ethiopia.. the individual who took in baby Moses as her own.. a 4000 year old Nibiran woman.. She's agreed to come out of the alien closet in the year 2027.. She can confirm the black Moses and 16 year old Aisha..
The question isn't if Aisha was 16 years old when married.. The question is why did the Illuminati lie about it after the Christian Crusades and 1500s slavery.. for the black Moses etc..
Let alone the Islamic (and Jewish) messiah Yeshua the Emperor of Nibiru
Right Wing = Class Left Wing = Everybody Netanyahu is far right.. Israel created Hamas overtly and covertly.. Netanyahu orchestrated October.. Bush did 911.. Hamas are the lesser eviL to the 1000+ age 0 babies killer Netanyahu.. www.freedomact.co/israel.html
Google Abraham's ethnicity.. He was 3/4 so called Jewish (Hebrew like John Barnes' English) and he was a quarter Arab born in Iraq/Ur.. Judaism started with the black Moses (Son of Ham land) etc.. Both Abrahams were immigrants.. Prophet and Lincoln.. Immigrants are good right..
You should tell a psychiatrist about this I think they'd find it very interesting
He would if Moses was black.. What does it mean to be Jewish if Moses was black and Abraham was Jewish.. Or Hebrew like John Barnes' English.. like John Barnes is English..
Much like UFO science and Yeshua the Emperor of Nibiru.. The living Nefertiti and later the Queen of Sheba is the 1st female President of Ethiopia ready to confirm all this on my command.. It's not just something fun to say on X or BS..
Numbnut..
Stop murdering people then
Is this an equivalence? Irish Republicanism is a political ideology that demands a united island of Ireland, with no British control whatsoever. Catholicism is a Christian religion. If you hate Irish Republicanism, that is understandable. If you hate Catholics, that is bigotry and it's wrong.
Hello, I am sorry for my request, but we are dying from hunger💔💔, diseases that never leave us😣😔, and insects that we see in our tents. Please help us so that we can be in a better situation than this😣😣
Show me an example
Tagging anyone who criticizes Zionists, or Israel for that matter, as antisemitic is no different than tagging all Palestinians as Hamas. Different sides of the same coin and flipped by the same people.
No one says that
Yes well the extremely online right think nationalism is OK if you call it patriotism so conflation isn't anything new.
So Joel, how would you say that you oppose Zionism but are against anti semitism? A reminder that Palestinians are Semites.
Incorrect. Nobody is a "Semite", unless you believe discredited race theories. But that's not what "antisemitism" means.
Yes, that is what it has come to mean, and I understand the the word Semite is a term no longer used by those who speak of such things. I also think that the Palestinians are being killed en masse because of their racial identity.
A reminder that the coined term antisemitism specifically is about hate of Jews.
True. Why is that? So we can kill Palestinians with impunity? They are the ones whose land was invaded. I guess hatred against them doesn't count.
You do realize that the term antisemitism predates Zionism by decades, correct? And that it was coined by antisemitic academics in Germany who wanted a more genteel, academic-sounding term to use instead of "Judenhass" ("Jew hate"), not by Jews looking for a way to silence you?
Is this just trolling, or are you this dense?
Dense. Also Israel is committing genocide.
The word "antisemitism" came FROM antisemites defining Jews as "semites" from without.
If I need a lawyer to figure out wtf you're saying, you're not saying anything at all, you compulsive scold. If moral posturing equaled moral high ground, you'd be Mother Fucking Theresa.
Most people on the Left can make that distinction. We need to keep hammering away at those who can't.
Completely not true
www.thenation.com/article/worl... You've been had by the Israeli military. #antisemitism It's OK, I was too. But, now you are aware of A) Israel's secret war, and B) who started it (Netanyahu and Sheldon Adelson ) C)who it's two leaders are (Gilad Erdan + Sima Vaknin-Gil).
Zionist’s believe every Palestinian is Hamas. Wrong is Wrong even if Everyone is doing it. It is simply not true.
Until they stop the genocide of Palestine I am anti Israel period. Call it antisemitism, call it antizionism if you want. I call it anti murder. We do not owe Israel anything except contempt.
Thank you
You're anti Netanyahu and the idf not anti Israel...........come on use your words properly
No we’re anti everything ISRAHELL Have you seen Gaza??? My good god in heaven
Lol fuck no I'm just anti-Israel. Fuck settler states. Free Palestine.
Look up "right to rape" on Duckduckgo. Not Google, they're hiding it. There are picnic areas with vending machines for Israelis to watch the genocide. Netanyahu giving Hebrew speeches saying the babies must also be slaughtered because the Talmud says so, to standing ovations. I'm anti-ISRAEL.
Cool you do you boo boo Ever heard of gnasher jew on twitter, hes a vile zionist piece of shit. Him and 5k people tried to have me for my stance on palestine accused me of being anti semitic tried their best couldn't do it because I don't play their gotcha game.
I just looked up your claims and it's all not true. I recommend looking up the law in the P#lestinian areas where it's legal to "marry your grape victim"
Netanyahu quotes Amalek, not Talmud, my mistake: www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW51...
This was disgusting and no one does anything about it. He has free reign to do what ever he wants the world is just sitting back and letting it happen. The man needs to be in the Hague and charged with the crimes hes committed.
Yeah...look, I don't mean to come off as an asshole, but there are Israelis that are out there protesting and know exactly what kind of monster Netanyahu is, and we gotta support people like that, but they are in the minority. The country is morally lost.
Right to rape: 1. www.cbsnews.com/news/israel-... 2. www.aljazeera.com/video/newsfe... 3. www.bbc.com/news/article... 4. www.thecanary.co/global/world... Public gathering to cheer on war: 1. www.news.com.au/world/middle... 2. www.wionews.com/world/the-di...
I can agree with that. But I still stand that anti Israel does not mean antisemitic. Maybe I should have said I am anti Israeli government.
Ypu have to be very careful. It's like saying every american is a cuntish as trump while a good portion are there's a whole lot who aren't. Best way is to say I hate Netanyahu
Careful like the IOF?? My god 🤬🤬🤬🤬
yes! this!
nah, the entire project of israel is land theft and murder.
Saying you are anti Israel doesn't mean you are against individual Israelis though, does it? Like saying "death to the IDF" means cancelling the institution not the people.
You know you're not against every Israeli but looking at a post saying I'm anti Israel it doesn't convey that my god this platform is fucking dumb. The torah Jews are beaten everyday they stand with Palestinians they abhore the murdering done in the veil of their faith.
Jesus fucking christ I've had years of being accused of being anti semitic because of my stance on palestine by the very people that jump on comments like everyone on here is making. It's a fine fucking line you walk they make it that way to have gotcha moments. I can make a point and never..
Have anyone falsely accuse me of being anti semitic I see their games and I don't play them. Can't say that enough. Netanyahu and his government have committed hundreds of war crimes for decades. His idf at his request commit war crimes daily.......the right wing nutters and settlers do the same...
All of that is fact none of that allows those vile fucking cunts who trawl social media to be able to accuse me of anything less than telling the truth. That has been my point but no you lot on here have to play into the bullshit and bait........to give them the ammo to say oh the left are all....
Anti semitic........if you cant see that or understand that there's no hope and attacking me metaphorically just makes you all look silly. Post what ever articles you want say what ever you want I'm correct nothing changes that.
The majority of Israel is outright genocidal. The entire state needs to be abolished and sovereignty of the land returned to the Palestinians. Any Israelis who can't stomach the idea of living equal to Palestinians can fuck all the way off.
I think I will hold to the Israeli government because Netanyahu has the same synchophantic toadies that Trump has with the GOP.
(psst, it was bad for palestinians before netanyahu)
I know. And I've spoken out for years. The millions killed in Gava over decades was just the warning of what is happening now. Netanyahu has been in charge for so long its hard to separate. I mispoke.
Not just "the govt". The Israeli flag is murdering Palestinians from before the "Netanyahu govt". From before Netanyahu was even born Israel is a racist genocidal country
You are correct. There has been conflict my entire 57 years on this planet between Israel and Gaza. While I despise Netanyahu, the Israeli government for decades has been set on the annihilation of Palestinians no matter who was in charge. Netanyahu just took it to a new devastation.
Israel is an ethnostate. It is inherently immoral even if decent people live there.
"it's like syaing.." -- No. No it is not. ISRAEL is a country. We should beat ISrael to death. The world is better of without Israel. You know, Germanuy did not disappear when we kicked out the nazis. South Africa still exists without Apartheid. USSR with its communism disappeard but not Russia.
nah www.pewresearch.org/global/2025/...
Stops you getting hit with the anti semitic bat what i said regardless of whats in that article.
the entirety of Israel is a genocidal project. the vast majority of its citizens approve of Netanyahu's actions. so no, im against Israel. dont tell me how to talk.
The absolute AUDACITY is mind blowing to me….🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸
My god neither of you get it seems bluesky is now as dumb as twitter jesus christ on a bike.
Increasingly people *get it* after learning history of when zionists were armed, funded & facilitated to take Palestine lands by Britain Then, after decades of aided imperialism, the USA then decided to declare Israel a nation as its Settler Colonial state, & zionists acted w genocidal imperialism
That's not everyone is it????? Fuck me talk about playing into their fucking hands ya clown. We know what israel is we know how it started. You want to avoid being attacked for standing up for palestine chose your words carefully you mewling cunt.
Awww abuse, wow, yep people are definitely gonna have respect t for you when you abuse them, rude xxxx How embarrassing for you No one in this world cares what Israel thinks
i dont want to avoid being attacked, i want to speak plainly. if you want to go hide instead, whos the mewling cunt?
You are the mewling cunt.
Not denying that at all. Everyone of you fucking clowns sailed right past my point. This is their game and I will not play it. I fucking despise the Netanyahu government and everything they're doing. I hate the politicians continuing to support isreals genocide allowing more settlers to take land
I hate all of it but I will not allow my views to be nullified with oh you're anti semitic because I fail to structure a point properly, something people here think they don't need to do.
Boy only 2 posts before you were excusing Israel because "its only Netanyahu". It is the State of Israel that says "WE are THE Jews" that comitted Nakbas that commits Genocide (say the word, you coward) BUt YOU are policing people into some 'definition' to excuse Israels genocidal zionist friends
Stop telling other people what they think and mean Speak for yourself. (Oh and by the way: stop murdering Palestinina children, you genocide excusing zionist)
Fuck me you're a clown.
Nope. They all wave the same flag. They all use zionist excuses, the zionist flag that murders since 1948
Nah. Israel is an apartheid ethno-state (Imagine Texas murdering, raping, torturing, imprisoning, and starving every non-white person) and 85% of Israel’s population are bloodthirsty racists cheering on genocide. Israel has no right to exist and clearly shouldn’t.
It’s not just Netanyahu…
Should have added the government and illegal settlers. It was a sloppy reply from me hold my hands up to that one But hey everyone got my point......oh wait no
I think a growing number of people are very clear on the difference between the two and are beginning to understand that the people who are stoking antisemitism are the vile mass murderers in the Israeli Government masquerading as Jews while defiling every sacred value and belief of Judaism.
Touché Barbara 👍😅
No evidence of that.
"extremely online left" You sound crazy.
It's true, though. People who get subjected to a constant stream of bad news become more antisemitic. The key is doing something that makes you happy. Playing a game, talking to others about your hobby ... online, but not engagement-driven. We lose being ourselves.
How do you not know what he's talking about??
Extreme?
Left? Likud's wholly-owned DUOPOLY allows us NO vote, choice, say; stole OUR working class party. DNC is OUR enemy & is feeding us to International Finance or whatever euphemism we're ALLOWED to call those feeding us to FIRE, OCM, PhARMA Sector kleptocrats. That's antisemitism like masking & voting?
You're twisting peoples' opinions to bully us into shutting up about the current toxic effect of Zionism. We *know* not all Jews are militant Zionists. We've seen Jews in the UK, US & Israel bravely expressing their opposition to genocide. I honour & respect them AND their religion. #NotAntisemetic
The guy you're responding to is one of the very Jews you praise as an example. So am I. The fact that mildly calling Gentile anti-Zionists out for bad behavior is enough to move us from "good Jew" to "evil Zionist"--regardless of how much we've spoken up for Palestine--speaks volumes.
Doesn't work for me, using 2 near-infantile designations for Jews (good Jew, evil Zionist). Much depends on what is meant by mildly & on what bad behaviour said gentiles are exhibiting. I know some are OTT, approaching the issue from an angle I can't support, but - genuinely - what bad behaviour?
I don't think OP wants you to shut up about those things. I think he is talking about the people who say shit like "ok, colonialist pig. How many brown people have you murdered" when I tell them I am ethnically Jewish. I am American lol just saying I am Jewish is enough. They say meaner things even
*No one* has the right to attack any&every ethnic Jew they meet with accusations about killing brown people. That is undeniable bad behaviour undertaken in bad faith, with no intention of dialogue! Embarrassing! Mind, nor does anyone denying genocide do so in good faith, notwithstanding October 7 😢.
And it has come at me from more than one person, it's nuts. That's why this comment thread exists, because experiences like mine do happen, and it's not all bigots being cray haha
I rarely come across these weirdos personally, so thanks for the bait. Might finally get around to blocking some of them 👍
The strangest reply I’ve seen by far is some German dude shilling for a local gas station chain under his screed. Like WTF?
Examples, if you please . . .
I said I was an ex-Orthodox Jew, and I argue in favor of ending the genocide in Gaza, and a bunch of leftists started to say "so you support genocide, pig?" And other blatantly anti-Semetic things. They assume someone supports genocide if they're Jewish, and they are very rude. They doxxed me
But the right, a TN militia credibly threatened to kill me and my kids just for being Jewish and stalked me across all my socials and shit. That was wayyy more fucked. Nazis are scary, woke mob is annoying but all bark
I have long argued against the genocide in GAZA, suggesting that support for the people of GAZA is neither support for Hamas nor Netanyahu, without the position being antisemitic. In a transactional world it becomes increasingly difficult to hold nuanced positions.
Good for you? Lol sorry I don't get your point here
It's the other side of the coin. I had been called an antisemite because I do not support Netanyahu in GAZA. It stems from American politics that hold all things Israel sacrosanct, except people that don't buy into everything America and Israel are doing.
Yeah, and that's batshit. Those people are brainwashed, and we need to save them from themselves lol it's unfortunate
No they don't you dickhead!
Who says that?
I've even had people so this offline. It's a problem
I’m not seeing that, and I suspect you aren’t either. But there are some powerfully voices that are tying to rally resistance against the growing opposition to Israeli genocide in Gaza, so there is a need to push back against it by labeling antisemitism when it’s really opposing genocide.
What?
Like who?
the extreme left is entirely antisemitic, it is what they have in common with the extreme right. they also share a complete disregard for fact and reason.
It's absolutely true. It's the disregard for facts and reason that saddens me most.
yes thats right Sheila, everyone but you and the other people defending genocide is stupid and unable to reason
please explain how you can see "genocide" in an increasing population but be blind to it when Hamas and others call for the death of every last Jew in the world? Frankly, folks like you have no morals whatsoever.
shut the fuck up. not debating lives with zionists
Because you can't win on the facts.
the facts are that there is a global consensus that Israel is likely committing genocide and there is a warrant for the PM for war crimes. your rebuttal is just "uh, no"
Thank you for telling me that you are a hateful bigot who has absolutely no idea what he his talking about. Just so you know, Zionism is the national liberation movement of the Jewish people for the preservation of our national homeland in our national homeland. ALL decent people support Zionism.
You mean by Rabbi friend on here who calls what is happening in Gaza is antisemitic?
You don't know if he's a Rabbi. Prove it.
Well first thing you show that you are a misogynist because she is as many on here can attest Karen.
No, you are making assumptions that somehow I could read minds and knew which Rabbi you were talking about as opposed to not knowing if it was someone who said they were a Rabbi which also happens. I'll accept your apology now.
all decent people support melting children in their hospital beds? what fucking planet are you on
Antisemitism is fundamentally incompatible with the Marxist/Socialist left. Period. Anyone who says otherwise is no leftist.
What I have noticed is an awful lot of people who aren't Jewish telling people what anti-Semitism is or isn't, despite having zero experience of it themselves. I can't think of another example of a wholesale denial and gaslighting of another minority's lived experience. Everyone's lost their minds.
I've noticed that a lot of these people fall back onto centuries-old antisemitic tropes, but think they're being clever by find/replacing "Jews" with "Israelis". "Israelis control the media." "Israelis control international banking." "Israelis are unrooted to their home."
The last one “Israelis are unrooted to their home” is not necessarily antisemitic. I’ve seen it mean that Israelis are settlers. Similar comparisons are made between Anglos and natives in the US. It breaks through the idea that it’s ok to ethnically cleanse Gaza, because Palestinians don’t belong.
It is 100% antisemitic. The idea that Jews are foreign settlers wherever they are is kind of foundational to antisemitism as an ideology.
This sounds like an attempt to make Israel into a special case where settler behavior that many rightfully criticize in the US doesn’t apply to Israel. These Israeli policies are like policies that the US government does. Alligator Alcatraz was built 100 feet away from a native village. Same deal.
Jews are indigenous to the region. Your attempt to cast them as rootless interlopers is based in a trope with a lot of pretty ugly history around it.
Culturally all Jews have a connection to Israel, but only some would be called indigenous. I don’t know why pro Israel folks can’t accept that European Jewish settlers have behaved the way other settlers have. The behaviors have to be unlearned and calling that critique antisemitism doesn’t help.
There's no such thing as a "European Jew". Ethnically reassigning Jews to cast them as alien to their surroundings is rooted in centuries-old racist tropes.
Ok if you mean how Jews were treated in Europe, yes I agree. Those people were completely rooted in their communities. But when some Israeli Jews share land or power with Arabs/Armenians, they get a lot of pushback from their own leaders because they have a settler agenda. Just a fact.
Not just in Europe. In Europe, ethnosupremacists assign Jews middle eastern ethnicity to cast them as alien; in the middle east, ethnosupremacists call them "European" for the same reasons. You even use language of non-indigeneity to refer to them. That's problematic for a number of reasons.
Bollox.
"A lot of these people?" Surely you can find a few examples of leftists saying these things, no?
The phenomenon of describing things as “spiritually Israeli.”
Never heard of her, am I supposed to just take your word for it that she's a leftist?
bsky.app/profile/homo...
That certainly looks conspiracy-minded, but how is it antisemitic?
Oof
They're putting Stars of David on people who are Jewish and not Israeli. Anthony Blinken's Jewishness is the thing the meme maker wants to emphasize.
It’s not that they are censoring themselves by saying Zionists. Most of them would call out if someone didn’t make the distinction. But they still hold antisemitic views and think they are different because they say zionist (they are not very different)
Do you know the difference between a Nazi & a German? Perhaps you should learn the difference between a Zionist & an Israeli.
Nice, an ad-hominem
Who is "they?"
People who believe and reproduce antisemitic tropes while thinking they are not antisemitic
So anyone disagreeing with Israels Zionist regime & criticising war crimes, land theft & genocide are all antisemites?
No. But if in order to do so they resort to antisemitic tropes then yes. For example holocaust minimizers, or people who think Zionists control their country.
For decades, the world has grieved the holocaust & sympathised with Jews. Right now, I grieve for Palestinians who who rightfully fear being bombed to death, losing their children, their homes & their country. I hav no sympathy for someone who cares more about offensive words than genocidal actions.
And it needs to be restated - Palestinians are Semites too so the motivation of those decrying Israel’s behaviour cannot be anti- semitism. It’s starting to look as though the term anti- semitism is a diversionary tactic to deflect the conversation from the reality that anti-Zionism is the correct
Zionists do control the country though? Trump is a zionist, Mike Johnson is a zionist, Joe biden was a zionist. Congress keeps voting to send more weapons to Israel for a genocide, I feel like that makes them in any practical measure zionist?
Zionists do control things in this country, and most of them are Christians.
now you’re playing cognitive guilt, cause i now of german soldiers who fought ww2 that say they were not nazis. cause it’s too much to bear. have too much to do rn but let the trials and social media posted crimes sort it out
Rubbish. Anti-Zionist is NOT antisemitic. By yr argument, there wld be 1000s of antisemitic Jews in the world as there r 1000s of Jews against what Israel is doing, & against Zionism. & Jews who lost family members in the Holocaust r antisemitic by yr definition, as they are anti Zionism & Israel.
I’m not saying antizionism is always antisemitism. I’m saying many people who think are just antizionist don’t realize that they have antisemitic ideas. Rarely do antizionist jews fall into this category
Incorrect. Zionists have usurped Judaism for political purposes. The way you put it, you have the tail wagging the dog. 'Israeli' and 'Jew' are not synonyms. They are not being "clever", they are just cutting through the Israeli hasbara BS.
The overwhelming majority of Zionists in the US are Christians. CUFI has 40 million members. Jews don’t join that organization. There are about 6 million Jews in the US. If you want to picket a synagogue, I want to see receipts of you picketing five churches first.
See also: 2,000 years of tropes about "the wily and deceitful Jew" unashamedly invoked by the racial slur "hasbara".
But do you condemn IDF?
Idk I feel like it's not very bigoted to blame apartheid on "white south africans" or the holocaust on "germans", instead of the more accurate political groupings. Why do you expect more clarity and accuracy from antizionists?
Yeah listen those evil people are even saying "Israel is stealing land!" "Israel is genocidal"! "Israel is Apartheid!" "Israel is murdering babies!" Keep fighting those windmills, Don Quichotte!
And that’s wrong. Though I have yet to see people on left side of politics make those statements myself. Though I’m not denying some maybe doing that and that needs to be condemned.
Though the only thing I’ll say is aipac is a prominent lobby that is buying up elections. Though same with the oil industry, health insurance companies, and the military industrial complex.
But just notice how comparatively muted the freak out is when it's white people exercising their right to petition the government...
Huh?
It didn't used to be an issue. One could make that distinction. Now it's become a great cover for antisemitism. Nothing thoughtful and moral can't be coopted by assholes and made rancid.
I'm not sure that I've seen any "left," let alone "extremely left," people online. This might help, though: rejecting any religion or advocating for a dissolution of a state is permissible. Bigotry is only blameworthy because it fails to recognize individual differences or targets people unjustly.
maybe weaponizing claims of "anti-semitism" in order to shout down opposition to Zionism had some unfortunate consequences
Rubbish
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA #FromTheRiverToTheSea
I’m looking for your well researched unsourced argument but I can’t even find the straw man. Although I’ll say genocide is a far worse form of racism. Also, our concern about antisemitism has no bearing on whether Palestinians should be genocided or not. Also, this is a total rage bait post.
You sound like a liar trying to cover up genocide.
FUCK ZIONISTS!!!
Just one question. Do you support what Netenyahu is doing in Gaza or do you condemn it ? I personally couldn't give a shit about definitions of this or that. I simply condemn evil whether it's perpetrated by Jews or anybody else. Netenyahu is an evil person committing evil acts.
Demanding Muslims condemn the actions of the worst of them is just as wrong as what you're doing right now. Psycho.
Is there a demand? Most Muslims turned their backs on Palestinians decades ago.
Stop lying. Zionism and Judaism are different things. Also. Murdering tens of thousands of kids is really bad. #JewsAgainstGenocide
Luckily none of the leftists I follow do this shit. I’ve have met one, though.
“Extremely online left” yeah dawg for sure, hey check out this extremely online fart I’m blowing in your direction rn:
Bullshit. Zionism is the racism you seek. No different from the KKK. Anti-semitism happens to less than 0.4 % of the US population, and is the skirt that Zionism (now controlling both Parties) hides behind. Stop trying to fucking “BernieBro” again. Fucking useless Liberals, I swear to God.
Confused
The latter isn't left.
A lot of people on the extremely zionist right now seem to interpret "Antizionism is not antisemitism" to mean "Antisemitism is is actually fine if you just say it's anti-Zionism."
I have yet to see any prominent progressives say anything antisemitic when discussing Israel.
But I still don’t understand, am I racist for calling out China’s genocide of Uyghurs? Am I racist for calling out Russia’s genocide of Ukrainians? If not, why is calling out Israel’s genocide of Palestinians wrong?
They're just rediscovering the old ways. Nothing new under the Sun ;)
"Anti-Zionism is not antisemitism" is a valid statement. Everyone who questions that is a Palestinian-hating racist.
"Anti-Zionist acts are not *inherently* antisemitism" is a valid statement. "Anti-Zionist acts are not *ever* antisemitism" is not.
I'm simply against mass murder, created famines, bombing hospitals, stopping aid workers, and killing journalists. There doesn't have to be any ism attached to it, maybe apart from humanism.
Never met anyone that thought that. "Extremely online left". Bro, just say you're stupid.
If Palestinians are semites then why is antisemitism always a reference to Jewish people? Maybe there needs to be a new term?
There are no "Semites." There are Semitic languages, but no Semitic peoples. "Antisemitism" was coined as a synonym for "Judenhaß" without regard for any actual linguistic considerations. Specifically, antisemitism is antisemitism even if directed at Jews who don't speak any semitic languages.
So Semite is a linguistic group. Would you say antisemitism has been overly politicized to just mean anti Jew, anti Israel, anti zionist
The point of the OP is that any such politicization is not license to engage in antisemitism. It would be pathetic to let people like Netanyahu and Trump get one to stop caring about antisemitism.
The problem you do not address is that people who criticise Netan and his morderous yahus are labelled antisemite. The two things are totally separate. For example this guy is evil. And its only one example.
Anti-Zionism isnt Anti-Semitism. Unless you are saying g that committing genocide and stealing Palestine is some immutable characteristic of Judaism.
Which is why we need to call out racism where we see it. Don’t help the Zionist scum in their victim charade, police the racists. And for the record I think the antisemites claiming anti Zionism are actually paid IDF trolls not ‘the left’ electronicintifada.net/content/insi...
Asa Winstanley, unfortunately, absolutely palls around with a lot of the more antisemitic (and conspiracy-laden griftier) elements of the "pro-Palestinian" crowd, such as the entire Grayzone News group, and MintPress News. So he's one of the ones doing exactly that.
Fuck Israel anyway.
I mean, yeah, obviously. But also fuck grifters that use the genocide of Palestinians to sell their articles and push apologist perspectives on other genocides and ethnic cleansings, too, right?
Of course. But Israel is THE problem right now so fuck Israel. Fuck the US for that matter too. Israel wouldn't be the raging, murderous pirate that it is but for the US.
You're not arguing with my point. You're arguing with an illusory perspective. No-one here is saying the Israeli state, or the actions of the Israeli military, are anything short of genocide. Nor am I a supporter of the US, or UK, or any other state. Fuck all of them. And fuck these grifters, too
Agree, from America. I swear if we get attacked rn I’m rooting for the other side. #FreePalestine
Exactly. “Well they’re just grifters and they don’t really care about Palestine” sounds like a Zionist argument. Bc the article literally describes how Israel spends American tax dollars to lie and deceive. It’s giving “Arabs hate gays sooooo” 🤮
Might wanna look into the perspectives and views pushed by Grayzone and MintPress News around Uyghurs, Bashir Al-Assad, Rojava, Ukraine, Covid, and Russell Brand before saying that, mate.
No one cares anymore. Israel's genocidal ways needs to end.
Oh, motherfucker is just doing team sports with people's lives. You just straight up a piece of shit, huh. I get it.
Not sharing your dislike for a media outlet isn't a reason to call people names.
Saying that no-one cares about any other genocide other than the one occurring in Gaza is fucked, mate.
All these Zionists thinking they’re so clever. Deflection deflection deflection. Israel needs to go. It’s an illegal terrorist org and always has been. The land and govt is and should be PALESTINE
Imagine thinking I'm not pro-Palestine. Imagine that. Imagine how stupid you would have to be to actually think that.
Why don’t you ask them directly?
Do i know you that you address me as bro? I can assure you, I am not. And are you playing dum to paste something from my wall & ask is this me? Question: is this your account or has a lobotomised chimp got access to your mobile?
The way you run face first into your whataboutism and can’t see it 😂 Muting
?? I don't think that term means what you think it means, mate.
By definition, Zionism seeks to expand the Jewish state in the Palestinian land by eliminating "Arabs". Not all Jews are zionist, but all zionists are Jews. Anti-zionists are then anti-Jewish Zionists. So, in practice, those two terms become indistinguishable.
That is NOT the definition of zionism and most folks who use that interpretation of Zionism to define themselves are CHRISTIANS 🤦🏻♀️ your statement is actually 💯 INCORRECT aside from The fact that indeed not all Jews are zionists. Maybe do some more learning🤷🏻♀️
That’s not actually the definition of Zionism, and the majority of Zionists are Christians. But thank you for demonstrating the point.
There are Christian Zionists, actually
There are more members of Christians United for Israel (CUFI) - 10 million - than there are total number of Jews in the United States.
AND that is NOT the definition of Zionism!! 🤦🏻♀️ Zionism at is core is about Jews having a safe home SOMEWHERE in the world after EVERYWHERE has tried to kill, expel, or forcibly convert us for 2000+ years.
Yes. Multiple branches exist: Labour, Religious and Revisionist, with subdivisions within each of those. Bibi is Revisionist, but he doesn’t define the everyone. Lots of Israelis aren’t particularly ideological, just focus on their safety.
Yep. In MANY ways were should be past zionism or not cause 🇮🇱 exists and its not going anywhere. But since a lot of people still seem to refute its very existence, I remain a zionist. ALSO I am staunchly committed to a 🇵🇸 state. Because I am a Zionist I believe in self-determination for both.
I remember having my mind blown when I first read the Feisal-Weizmann agreement of 1919. It fell apart, but there was a moment in time where a shared vision of mutual liberation and cooperative development existed. muqtafi.birzeit.edu/InterDocs/im...
That's not right at all. The loudest and most numerous Zionists are Evangelical Christians. They want to usher in their apocalypse and make way to heaven on the back of Jewish corpses, but they think the Greater Israel project has to succeed to get there.
We are getting somewhere, here. If I understand it correctly, you're equating evangelical Christianity to the cults of Jim Jones and David Koresh, but they were following and preaching the same book that is in every hotel in the USA. They are seeking their heaven through the destruction of others. 1
And in the case of Israel, they see it as the "winning" cult to bring the end of the world and usher them to their heaven. Israel is NOT the chosen cult of humans above all others. They proclamation comes from a book of stories that are all nonsense. Still, Israel is committing genocide in Gaza.
No. It's a commonly held theological position in the US, not technically a cult. It's completely bonkers, but millions of people, including many of those currently in power, take it seriously. This makes it important to understand. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispens...
Well, that punctuates well with Marx saying, "Religion is the opium for the masses." And I add to it, "but it empowers the ruling few." They are acting on a fictional and theological fantasy that is killing people. Fascination with the "end" to be here quicker shows how desperate they are.
No I’ve not noticed that. What I have noticed is, criticising the death of 60,000 “fish in a barrel” Palestinians by democratically elected Netanyahu and his IDF, leads to the accusation of antisemitism. I don’t care what religion you are, fuck genocide and fuck the Zion self appointed chosen ones.
How many of those killed were combatants? Why won’t they tell you? Why won’t you ask?
87% of Palestinian victims are NOT combatants. Source: IDF We didn’t have to ask, it was in the news cycle a few days ago.
Check again. The IDF was not the source and they categorically denied the accuracy of the report.
It was deduced by reverse engineering but they ultimately released info that made it clear. Are you trying to justify genocide?
They deny EVERYTHING. Deliberate sniper kills of children, denied. Targeting of journalists, denied. Starvation as a weapon, denied. Famine, denied. War crimes, denied. Foreign journalist on the ground in Gaza, denied. Access to aid, 99% denied. Zionism is racism.
Zionism is the right of Jews to self determination. That is all. If you believe that Jews are the only people to whom that right should be denied then YOU are the racist.
A PSA from AIPAC.
I've said it before but the almost McCarthyst paranoia among the left looking for "Zionists" reminds me of neo-Nazis looking into "Early Life" sections of Wikipedia.
Why is "zionists" in quotes? Do you not believe Zionism is a thing?
Anti zionist has nothing to do with religion. Zionists mostly want to dispossess Palestanians from THE PALESTANIAN HOMELAND by any means possible. Especially with violence. Very similar to Nazi Germany goals against Jews. That was not only religious tyrany but political propaganda.
And Zionism was a European political movement…
'a lot' 'extreme left' 'sounding a lot like Jillian Segal' Yeah Nah