I’d appreciate anyone explaining to me (in rational human communication not tribal social media idiot brain), how Lfc “played to win” & we “played not to lose.” Even if you believe we were more conservative than we should’ve been, you must at minimum apply the same logic to them
The opposition really is not impressive and these were definitely 3 points dropped by Arsenal
Maybe... the opposition were not impressive because we shut them down?
Definitely that but also their performances this season have been wacky.
Haha yes. And they refuse to buy cbs, love their commitment to playing suicide football
I’m not at all concerned about them honestly. that game felt like a loss to fulham or something- a one off
No Elliot, you don’t understand. When Liverpool do it, it’s elite mentality. When we do it, we play for a draw.
I see you've joined the Arteta apology team. I'm a Patron but if you spend today's podcast "explaining" to us idiots why this was a good plan I'll have to take today off.
Mikel will have regrets over some decisions yesterday as I said on the IR
Fair enough. I didn't get a chance to listen to the IR yesterday, or more accurately, I was too pissed off to listen. I recover fast though. Hear you in a little while.
All the analysis has been ex post. It’s one of my biggest peeves in football and broader sports analysis. “Monday morning quarterback” is a term for a reason I suppose
It was the second half that has stuck in people’s minds. In you rewatch it and then look at stats, the data suggests they played quite different second half. In different spaces, more final third entries etc
Last night’s game hit differently. Not just because of the result, but because of that all-too-familiar sting, another injury, another setback for one of our main player. It’s become a theme that’s haunted us for far too long, and frankly, it’s exhausting.
As for the match itself. Two teams, well aware of each other’s strengths, almost mirroring each other in caution. That kind of tension makes for a fascinating tactical battle, but it also leaves you wondering who’s brave enough to break the rhythm.
What really disappointed me was Mikel’s decision-making. That was the moment to bring Eze on. You could see the gaps, the hesitation in Liverpool’s midfield, and it felt like the perfect time to inject something different. Instead, we waited which is a shame I thought.
So what do we take from it? Two evenly matched sides, yes. Was one hungrier than the other? No. Two teams separated by a goal that was frankly from another planet. Arsenal had spells of dominance, moments where you felt the tide could turn. But we didn’t seize them. We hesitated. Again.
Forget the tactics for a moment. It’s about timing, conviction, and the ability to read the game before it reads you. And until we start doing that consistently, we’ll keep finding ourselves on the wrong side of these fine margins.
Keep circling back to my theme of the season brought by @flannyballs.bsky.social : we’re not a team built for this level of churn. Yes, it shows we can ride out injuries, credit there. But the cost? A team that takes far longer to click than fans are willing to wait for.
If being a world class goal away from holding the champions to a draw at Anfield without Saka, Havertz or Saliba is a sign of our floor, maybe we are built for this churn?
That’s a fair observation. I’m just trying to manage expectations (mine mainly) realistically. It’ll take time for the system to settle. Maybe this season is less about winning the league and more about laying the groundwork for what’s to come. 🤷
I think we're going for it in our own way. So far, considering the injuries, I think going for the deeper squad rather than individual upgrades has proven its merit. Ideally we get everyone back and we can keep legs fresh for later in the season.
Yeah, overall, Mosquera looked comfortable filling in and no way did we lose shape or look like a weak spot. Always a bonus. It will come. Awful game really. But 3 games in. I’m not losing it. They were shit so was we. Decided on a moment of magic. Have to eat it.
Don't get me wrong, I am fully aligned with the squad building strategy. It is less about upgrades but depth and options. I am just mindful of the fact that it will disrupt the process for some time.
Agree. The narrative around this match is exaggerated. Both teams approached it with the same mentality, and it was always going to take a moment of magic to decide the outcome. Playing away at Liverpool is arguably the toughest fixture in world football right now.
Second to playing away at the Emirates
Absolutely correct. Both teams played not to lose, they just hit a moment of brilliance.
I don’t think it’d be fair to frame it that way but I think it is fair to say we didn’t set out to make the most of some obvious vulnerabilities and then didn’t make the most of some periods when we were on top….
Injuries a definite mitigating factor but not making the most of our dominant periods in games is a bit of a long term theme
Both teams created so little and it was intentional on both sides. Don’t let the media spin you up Elliot.
I think if you look at what we went with in midfield you could make the argument that arteta sent out a team to not lose but i think that argument crumbles real fast if you look at how we tried to play especially in that 1st half
We all thought that initially. Then we watched the game where we were playing essentially 4-4-2. I don't get how anyone can look at merino's heat map and call him a DM
They played to win by not having a touch in Arsenal’s box until the 49th minute
The argument makes no sense Elliott.
The only way i have to reconcile this is that every pundit must have been convinced that the Arsenal were so much better than Liverpool that we would've trounced them despite having 4 starters out. Right?
The result is confirmation bias for a lot of people. Personally I didn't want to see Merino start but I understand why he did in the context of injuries & new signings etc. Would we have won with Ethan or Eze or both starting? Who knows but I think many fans & pundits will criticise Arteta when...
...he chooses a functional team over an attacking one and loses the game. The reasons for the loss are almost irrelevant as it's the perception of his intentions that matters to a lot of people. Obviously he'd probably get slaughtered for being naive if they lose 4-3 in a basketball game. My view...
...is that he's naturally cautious and wants to control games but he's also evolving as a coach. The attacking signings this summer suggest to me he knows we need to play differently to win but there are also times when away from home you need to control a game... 🤷♂️
I’ve grudgingly come to believe that there is a fairly substantial anti-Arsenal…underpinning in most of the football media. I think some of it is def a holdover from anti Arsene Wenger feelings and some is the domination of football by voices from the NW
Results-driven analysis where the narrative is determined by the scoreline and not the actual game.
100%
It’s just results driven revisionism.
They were at home at the mighty Anfield and played a game to not drop the points against a team they thought they would. The offense of the the last two games was not there because they were worried the defense would be, and adjusted accordingly but at home they showed a timidity that surprised me
I think Man Utd played much, much better than LFC as the home team, on the front foot, pressing. Credit LCF for their quality, they won the game off a worldie. Anyone who has played FM knows it takes a while to settle such a changed squad. I'm happy with 6pts from 9.
*LFC
Arteta’s biggest issue today was that he waited about 10 min too long for the odegaard and eze subs. So…. Yeah I guess you can get stuck in to that. And I’ll tell you this much for free: a fit saka changes this game but I wouldn’t want to be accused of making “excuses”
I ran out of of patience with Martineli 18 months ago and when I saw him starting I knew we were never gonna score. We seem to be actively not trying to play in Gorkyes( too early to try spell)
Ignore the social media narrative. Both managers played not to lose and that’s exactly what would have happened if that free kick didn’t go in. Slots even said if the game is played 10x, 8x it’s a draw and a win for either side the other 2
Slot pro-active. Arteta slow and predictable. Martinelli doesn’t start for Boremouth
Pro-active? Bro Liverpool have won all of their games in like 85+ minutes. If anything, they way they are paying right now is not sustainable over the season!
What the fuck was Martinelli doing on the pitch yesterday for 70 mins? As much as I love Arteta that was incredibly dumb from him. Eze has already played three games for Palace so not like he wasn’t fit enough to come on earlier. You can’t win the league if you have Martinelli playing 70 mins
Martinelli was shutting down salah. If eze came on early and salah scored a goal, everyone would be claiming mikel for being naive. There is no impetuous on arsenal to be the protagonists away from home to their biggest rivals
For me, it's not about Liverpool. And I have no problem with the starting lineup. But I wish the players on the pitch were able to sense after 30 minutes that their opponents weren't at it and that they could afford to take more risks while that was still the case...
Yeah I agree. This was the two best teams playing pretty even football. One ridiculous free kick the difference. I would have liked the subs earlier or odegaard starting but neither a massive mistake.
White, Saka, Saliba, Odegaard, Havertz, Norgaard, Jesus. The difference this year, like last, is that Slot keeps his squad generally fit.
Both teams came out not to lose, but only one succeeded. 😒
Two good teams trying to work out how to play with lots of new players, either by choice or injuries. Neither was perfect; one got a golazo
Also another week of eze training changes things
City have won the league 6 times under Pep and he won only once in the PL at Anfield in those seasons and that was the Covid season where Liverpool were a mess. There was never a narrative that for City to win the league they had to win at Anfield but that applies to us for some reason
I bet he would have made those subs far earlier, maybe even Eze after the half, if Saliba hadn't gone out, thus reducing his flexibility significantly so early in the match.
Agree on the timing of subs but I think people are forgetting the context of the early Saliba injury sub. That removed one sub occasion and optionality for Arteta. So he probably waited longer than he wanted as he didn’t want to go into the last 30 mins with only one sub occasion remaining.
I don't think the narrative matters. Doesn't matter who "played to win", what matters is who won and got the three points. We play well, don't create enough, have lots of injuries and drop points to opposition's "one strike in a million". This story sounds familiar. The real question is why...
I read somewhere that Liverpool (presumably as opposed to Arsenal) "dared to go for it", and I wonder if getting a free kick and taking it really counts as "going for it". Because that was the actual difference.
bsky.app/profile/tomo... I am sure you have read this. Perfectly sums it up. It seems to be impossible for a sport's journalist to write anything that is nuanced, it is never black and white like they say. I don't have the words like @tomoc.bsky.social but he perfectly captures what we feel.
I'm sick of seeing martinelli. How many times can a man take him running to the corner flag to lose it against 3 defenders. Absolute sick of it.
I think he picked a conservative line-up, Merino and Martinelli picked for their defensive work, and he waited too long to make the Eze and Ødegaard subs. I get that neither may have been fit enough to start the game, but Liverpool started their best attacking players.
But they didn’t play in more swashbuckling way than us. In terms of a less conservative line up, the only obvious option was Ethan/Eze/half fit Ode for Merino, and it’s not clear to me that would have changed the dynamic a whole hell of a lot.
I think that Nwaneri is a very, very different player to Merino. Granted he’s not played in Ødegaard’s position much, but he’s in the first team squad for a reason, and that is because he’s a very good, creative player. Eze is a PL star player, who had a full pre-season at Palace.
Sure, we can pick apart the selection, but ultimately it was cagey game played by two teams giving each other a lot of respect and each determined not to lose. I’m not convinced selecting Ethan for Merino or Eze for Martinelli would had transformed how it played out.
I was answering Elliot’s question in the OP, wasn’t really interested in getting into a discussion on opinions of players tbh. Game was too soon for us, with seven new players in the squad, and Mikel prioritised security. It’s what he does and he’d probably do it again if we played them next week.
Another point that’s relevant is people constantly justify the more conservative team selection with a ‘you people just miss Arsenal getting tonked 6-2’. I think that’s a bad faith argument cuz none of those teams had a back 5 like we do now. And a Declan rice in midfield.
I think there’s a good case that we could have been a bit more adventurous in the game, and certainly with substitutions made a bit earlier. My issue is with the suggestion that we got it totally wrong. It’s fine margins stuff.
We’ve been 2nd for 3 years in a fiercely competitive league running a lower wage bill. Of course Arteta has done wonders for us. He clearly gets a lot more right than wrong. We need to tweak things at the margins and this is an area where he tends to repeatedly err on the side of caution.
The obvious option was Eze in for Martinelli
We started a team full of off the ball players and yet its not on Arteta when we create nothing.
It’s a shame Nogaard’s injured or we could have started 4 holding midfielders I’M KIDDING
My biggest issue is the timing of the changes. 10 min to late at least
Have you seen Jon Mackenzie’s analysis of Slot’s tweak in the second half? It did have an effect, our centre was much more vulnerable and they managed to play through our press, and like Jon says - it’s a recurring problem. I worry that Arteta is too dogmatic. Plan A is frequently the only Plan.
100%. Let them back into the game without making our changes, or matching theirs. Could’ve taken the initiative and made the changes first.
Agree that we leaned more conservative, but I don’t see it as Pool picking their best attacking players. They kind of just went with the only real first team lineup they have. And then they played conservatively and blocked space, same as us
I don't care about Liverpool, there's no excuse for not starting one of Eze or Nwaeri for creativity and not featuring Trossard, who's scored a hat trick at Anfield. Bringing on Dowman was embarrssing. Plus as you say subs too late. Arteta won't go out and try to win = another lost season
To be strictly fair to pundits.. Had Arsenal scored a set piece goal in the last 10minutes the very same ones should now be raving about “Arteta’s plan perfectly executed” and a “toothless Liverpool team stuttering”. It’s just the way sports journalism works.
Yup - pointless, uninformative and lazy, which is why I avoid that commercial rubbish at all costs. I get 10x more insight from someone level headed and genuinely informed like @charleswatts.bsky.social than anyone on Sky or other sensationalist attention seekers
No, they wouldn't. It would be a set piece needed to undo a valiant home side or dome other such drivel. Lucky arsenal. Blah blah We would not have got credit. Not from mainstream press anyway.
Can we be honest and with ourselves? We talk about small margins, we need to reflect honestly: I hate radical statements BUT Martinelli cost us the game yesterday. Poor decisions in 1st half showed his limits. I love what's he's done for the club, but it's time to move on, selling him, and cash in
Stay off Twitter
They didnt. But idc about them.
This game felt like when we beat City 1-0 after a Martinelli deflection. Nothing separating teams. Early in szn. Nothing to see here. Move.
100%
Exactly this.
How I’d love to be able to have our best players on the pitch against the best teams. Playing 70 minutes against the champions without Saka, Saliba, Odegaard and Havertz changes the entire complexion of selection, performance and tactics. Excuses perhaps, injuries are too familiar a tale for Arsenal
