People just think merino was a conservative choice. And I sort of agree. But they’re unable to properly characterize why that’s the case. Arsenal weren’t setup defensively nor did we play defensively. Mikel just didn’t pick as risky an attacking lineup as he could have.
Listened to Clive and it settled me. Don't be bothered by what is said and focus on what is on the pitch.
I would have gone with Merino and I still would do in hindsight. My only change to Arteta's team would have been Eze to start LWF.
we were definitely set up defensively
I think we were set up not expecting to have much of the ball, then it turned out we had like 49% possession so it ended up looking v conservative
I think when you set up a team without any real creativity and have Martinelli as a wide player you cannot complain when people question your intentions
Shows where we are (and he is) that people view Martinelli as a conservative player now.
until Eze is up to speed, I’m not sure it’s conservative to pick the best player you have available.
Also strong and physical doesn’t mean defensive. I would have wanted Eze but it’s mad to think we were set up to just take a nil nil
You're looking at this the wrong way. We lacked creativity and technical quality.
So did they. They defended excellently as well. As I say I would have started Eze but Merino playing wasn’t Arsenal being conservative, it was a sensible set up that most managers would have done that led us to having control of the game. Put Saka in there and a fit Odegaard it’s very different
They struggled to break us down because we are so good defensively. They had the superior technical ability and quality. We had lost control in the second half and Arteta took far too long to change it.
Did they have the superior technical quality/ability, or did they have one more moment than us in a game of moments? Rice kicks his to Mars, Szobo doesn't. That's it. "we had lost control" implies, in a way, that we should be able to control the entire game, which I think is a crazy expectation.
Wirtz, Ekitike, Salah are all better technical players than what we fielded in attack. I don't think that's a crazy thing to say. If you don't like "lost control" than how about "lost momentum"? I also don't like the free kick argument. It would hold weight if it was final minute, but my
Yes both teams defended well. Yes Arteta should have changed it quicker no doubt. I just don’t have an issue with the starting line up
Fair. I do and did when it was announced.
Everything shows a very tight game, with Arsenal on top in certain metrics, Liverpool on top in others. Both team had ‘okay’ moments in open play.
I'm not denying it was a tight game, again, part of my frustration comes from not reacting quickly enough when we lost momentum. It's fine margins stuff, but I feel like Arteta's approach makes too many of our games like this.
Took a look at the stats breakdown by half. There is nothing to suggest a lack of control or superior ability from Liverpool. The possession breakdown is expected for a home team. 50/50 in first half and 56/44 to Liverpool in second half.
so Liverpool had more of the ball in the second half. I felt like we lost momentum in the second half. Feel like I was right then?
Eze absolutely could have started. Nwaneri could have started. Arteta made a choice to start physicality over technical security
It worked except for a wonder goal. I think that is the part people keep missing here.
Disagree. We were second best in the second half
So what were we in the first half?
fine? But we still weren't great on the counter (because we picked attackers that aren't particularly good technically) and we took far too long to change it up in the second half.
We could just as easily have lost if we started Nwaneri or Eze.
I really think “the neutral” just wants to be entertained and when they’re not entertained they default to blaming Mikel for that. And it doesn’t matter what’s best for Arsenal. They’re just throwing a tantrum.
Arsenal are definitely not an entertaining side anymore (so what) but I find them very fascinating to watch. I never know which spaces certain players are going to take up and it really seems to mess with opposing teams quite a bit.
I'd love to know what the alternative universe stories would have been if we'd won on the Rice (sent to Mars) free kick instead of them winning on Szoboszlai's. Would they have just been exactly the same, with names and teams reversed? Or would there have been something else as the narrative?
Would it have been "LFC were too conservative at home, against a depleted Arsenal"? Or would it have been "Arsenal got the good fortune in a game that could have gone either way"? Or something else? What would the story be, if that was the ONLY difference in the match?
You know it would have been “set piece again”, “Arsenal can’t win from open play”, and bonus for “Is Gyokeres already a flop”
It would have been ‘Arsenal came to stink up the game, didn’t want to play, and got lucky with a smash and grab’.
I don’t know if this is mostly the British press or what but they fit the occurrences of a match into a story dictated by result and result alone - absolutely zero nuance, acknowledgment of the effect of luck on a low-scoring sport, etc
Sports media, generally, maybe. Regardless of nationality.
Mourinho was adored by the English media, which makes me think it’s either a general dislike for Arsenal, or a dislike of Arteta as a person.
It’s not just Mourhino, Ferguson used to do what Arteta did, even at home, Newcastle do it, Tuchel, Conte. It’s simply not a new thing to keep things tight away from home against a rival.
No, but Mourinho received the exact opposite coverage is my point. The media loved him, and actually praised him for the way his teams would get results. The Chelsea vs Liverpool champions league ties were dreadful, but nobody was saying he or Benitez should be entertaining, or going away to win etc
I think we are saying the same thing
We are. Mourinho is the best example of the polar opposite media response to similar tactics. I don’t remember anyone in the media giving him a hard time at all. Perhaps the general opinion would change if Arteta were to finally win the PL or CL. Hopefully we’ll get to find out this season!
I agree to an extent but we heard many of the same pundit / journos waxing lyrical about Mourinho, Benitez and Conte for YEARS with their conservative approaches. Some of the current pundits played for those managers There’s an edge in the “analysis” that seems specific to Mikel
George Graham got the same BS. High press and a highline is “rock and roll football” when it’s Klopp but was boring boring Arsenal when we did it.
Exactly - there’s always been some narrative that Arsenal is somehow playing the wrong way and ruining football: - Boring, Boring Arsenal - Always Cheating - Too many foreigners - Don’t like it up ‘em - Naive / over-celebrating - Too defensive / Set Piece FC Just the way of the world 🤣
Yep, and fuck ‘em. If they hate us it’s because we matter. I take it as praise.
I've been thinking exactly this. Everyone looked forward to what ended up being a dull contest and they wanted somewhere to direct their annoyance.
I just want to know how to save those otherwise rational Gooners who have internalized the “Arsenal played 4 CBs and 3 defensive mids” narrative. Some serious illness going round…
Merino was picked for physicality and it worked for the first half. Mikel was just a little too slow with the subs in the second.