re: mine and @theophite.bsky.social ‘s disagreement, i kinda think of it like this: if you were air-dropped into 1934 germany, it’d simultaneously be true that there were already lots of steps taken towards the final solution and also that they were years and hundreds of steps away.
There is a reason the Holocaust museum in DC spends an entire half of the exhibit on the years btn 1933 and 1939, before the Final Solution. Because that’s how you get to the gas chambers.
All my homies hate that guy anyway for the aggressive role he took in getting Palestinian accounts banned for spam
and him deepfaking someone and being an ai freak generally
One more thing: The ghettos, violence and concentration camps were an atrocity in themselves, before it came to the extermination of our actual lives. And we are getting there now in America.
It’s like somebody is willfully not understanding the frog in a pot metaphor
technically everything leading up to the gas chambers isn't a genocide, but you should recognise the direction of travel long before that
That's not at all true. "Gas chambers" are not the one criteria or the lowest bar of a genocide
jesus christ shut the fuck up
One of the most embarrassing instances of Bluesky grasping for an opportunity to be a pedant I've ever seen and they're doubling down lol
he's on one about how no one associates gas chambers with genocide
That interpretation could only be derived by someone who tried to technically correct the definition of genocide with an incorrect and oversimplified criteria and has been covering their eyes and plugging their ears to ignore it. Things before mass murder define genocide. You were technically wrong
Ohhhh does poor baby not like being corrected when their "well technically" comment is actually completely false?
Gas chambers was very clearly stu's short hand for the execution of mass murder, as opposed to the curtailment of rights, demonization by elites, ghettoization, etc that presaged it. What did you accomplish by pretending you didn't get that?
Gas chambers is by no means a universal or clearly implied shorthand for mass murder. Even if it was, genocide is not defined only by mass murder and to imply that is the case, especially to state that is the case through a specific means of mass murder, is incorrect in either form.
yeah no one associates gas chambers with mass murder
Squares are rectangles, all rectangles aren't squares. You can pretend like words don't matter after you tried to "technically" correct a position that wasn't wrong with your incorrect statement, but that just makes you look even goofier
In the context of the Holocaust, which is what OP was discussing, "the gas chambers" is absolutely a shorthand for the mass murder of Jews. There's no need to keep being obtuse about this.
In the context of the Holocaust, there was mass murder before & aside from the gas chambers and additionally there was a genocide taking place based on other criteria before the use of gas chambers and the obtuseness is not on this side of the discussion. Ignorance has a hard time recognizing itself
you do understand that the Holocaust is one of the most widely taught and well understood historical events, practically anyone who is interested in history could reel off a list of facts about it, and the assumption that you need to explain its details to strangers is the ignorance on display here?
You started by explaining incorrectly that nothing before the use of gas chambers constituted a genocide. Whether you meant "gas chambers" as mass murder or specific, regardless genocide is defined by more than mass murder.
Don't sign your posts.
That's not what they were saying. There are things that led up to the Final Solution (gas chambers, industrialised genocide) which could be seen many years in advance to those paying attention.
I believe you are referring to OP's post? To which I do not disagree. The person I directly responded to said 'technically nothing before gas chambers was genocide' and that is not a true statement in any context. The genocide in Germany began before the chambers, as have genocides elsewhere
No, you changed the meaning when paraphrasing. They said 'technically everything leading up to the gas chambers isn't a genocide, but you should recognise the direction of travel long before that'. They didn't say 'nothing before that was genocide'.
Bro what. "Technically everything leading up to the gas chambers isn't a genocide" does literally mean that nothing that took place before the gas chambers was a genocide. What else does it mean? Paraphrasing means taking words at clear face-value? Be fr
I could explain that I'm sort of adopting a hectoring framework of technicalities as a rhetorical device but I'd probably get a lecture on what a rhetorical device was
You could start by understanding technicalities. Because to be technically correct, you then have to be correct in a precise and exact manner. The definition of genocide is far from limited to gas chambers, many things before gas chambers still constitute genocide and so technically you are wrong.
jfc you're tedious, have a mute
A conceptual problem is we don't know how things will happen. The Holocaust was different from Rwanda which was different from Cambodia etc. It will be something new, but this doesn't make the inability to predict exactly what that is scaremongering or complete speculation
So incredibly sad so incredibly scary so incredibly true and guess what look at where Germany is today one of the top countries because they said hell no never again that’s what I say. Hell no 34 count raping felon hell no
Lol wut y'all elected a member of the new Nazi party (AfD) just last year. Act like y'all are top-tier never-againing, get real
In 1934, Hitler had done many of the steps we are now living in. It’s 1935 that’s a huge turning point. Jews declared not citizens and Nuremberg Race Laws written.
yup, agree, and i think we are already seeing the groundwork laid for similar stripping of rights for a massive number of people.
I wonder if it will be legal immigrants next?
They did already say they were targeting Visa holders next
www.borderreport.com/immigration/...
Omg. I had no idea. 🙁
its important to recognize the steps already taken, call them what they are, etc, but also important to recognize how far away the end point is and how many steps to go, and as such opportunities to change the future. both are true!
i think a lot of disagreements between well-meaning, informed people about The State of Things can be boiled down to “which frame of reference are you emphasizing?” rather than “what is the state of things now?”
What’s that got to do with theophite
Yeah that dude feeds images of his daughter to AI as a “joke” and made a name for himself by harassing Palestinians begging for aid. There isn’t an ounce of good faith there lol
Wild that there’s a whole group of people who don’t know him from being supremely annoying pre gaza
I had no idea how lucky I was when I didn't know he existed.
Yeah dude has been awful for years. Glad it finally caught up with him.
he and I were talking disagreeing last night, and the disagreement was primarily right around this axis
It’s like a water damage in the home: 1) a little bit of it indicates that there’s probably a bigger problem somewhere that will just keep getting worse and needs to be addressed now and 2) just because it’s a small patches doesn’t mean it may not be black mold or structural damage.
With fascism and a leaky roof alike, if you notice a few drops coming through and your main takeaway is “this isn’t enough to constitute a flood”, you’re probably going to end up with Bigger Problems when everything is said and done.
I think that’s why In Bed with the Right’s 1933 project is so good, walking through the parallels of now. Hopefully highlighting those steps can help prevent future steps.